Ancient Dungeons & Dragons - D&D style fantasy inspired by Antiquity

[Yora]

The generic D&D environments are very loosely based on Western Europe in the 15th and 16th century, with every mythological creature from all European cultures thrown into it.

I'm personally more into the Greek and Persian world of Antiquity and the Bronze Age, a source of inspirations that lends itself to fantasy just as well as England, France, and Germany. But since The Lord of the Rings, it's barely been used at any big scale. I'm always on the look for ideas and ways to do more with this potential, particularly in regard to how to use it in a D&D campaign. You can find plenty of information and advice on running campaigns about Greek heroes, but I think something that feels like the Bronze Age within the generic universe of D&D could even be cooler. Plenty of typical RPG settings have a good amount of backstories about the distant past, when there where great empires of elves, dwarves, and early humans, with sorcerers and priest kings of incredible power. And when dragons and giants roamed the world in large numbers. More than once I had been thinking that I would actually rather play in the worlds described in those ancient histories than in the settings that are presented in the books.

I always find this a highly fascinating thing to think about and think it might be fun to share ideas.

I think the simplest point to start is with the dominant humanoid monsters. I think you can't get more classic than the tried and true serpentment, which the yuan-ti perfectly bring to D&D. There's a pretty sizeble niche of fantasy inspired by the Atlantis myth, and it seems like every single one of these works has it's serpentmen. I can't imagine Ancient Dungeons & Dragons without big jungle empires of yuan-ti.
Closely related to that, lizardfolk also seem like a natural fit for such a setting. They could be the generic savage humanoids like orcs, but you could also imagine them as one of the great humanoid civilizations and primary PC races. Though I don't think I've ever seen that done, and don't really have an idea how that might look like. Perhaps make them actually more like hobgoblins?
Giants also seem to be a staple of ancient mythologies. Perhaps not so much hill giants and stone giants, but more in the way of fire and cloud giants, or even storm giants. I think cloud and storm giants have long been portrayed in a somewhat Greek style when it came to their appearance and homes.
Something important to consider would be if you want to have elves and dwarves being major players in the world. They are normally most strongly associated with Northern European folklore, but within the universe of D&D they are usually portrayed as the precursor civilizations to the human kingdoms. I personally would use them, but I guess that depends on whether you want the end result to feel more like D&D or more like Ancient Greece.
I also think goliaths, tabaxi, and tritons make great PC races for such a setting. And of course the current incarnations of tieflings and dragonborn as well. If I recally right, the backstory of the red horned tiefling is that they used to be a big warlock empire.

Other things I can think of at the top of my head is to put lots of clerics, wizards, warlocks, and sorcerers in positions of leadership. It's kind of a requirement to being a great emperor, no? :smallbiggrin: And to make the world map centered around a sea instead of a landmass. The Greeks and Romans were a bit of an exception in this regard, but since they are by far the most familiar to us I feel it's a great way to capture that feeling. Instead of traveling over land to get from one major city to another, characters would travel on ships. Something that I feel comes up in D&D very rarely.

[Unoriginal]

The question is: do you want D&D, but in in a greco-roman-inspired setting, or do you want a RPG that capture the feel of the world of Antiquity and its myths?

[Hears You]

The question is: do you want D&D, but in in a greco-roman-inspired setting, or do you want a RPG that capture the feel of the world of Antiquity and its myths?

Like Exalted is a phenomenal game that does what a lot of players want D&D to do and has much more fleshed out social systems then D&D's.

But I get that it's also a really daunting game and D&D is super simple with just enough hand holding to guide players.

Going over your races don't forget Centaurs and Satyrs as iconic and common races. Though Centaurs you might want to steer away from their old role as "basically a metaphor for the savage other" because it comes with a lot of baggage.
Also thinks like AC are kinda hardcoded into D&D 5. 18 AC armor is kinda a thing, even though big Gothic plate isn't in this setting, just be sure to figure out how armor scales. Especially with how big a deal armor was for warriors in those stories.

[Asmotherion]

Fun Fact: The Dice with wich we play are named Platonic Solids after Plato. He has a whole theory around each of them asigning an element to each dice (except the d10 which is not a platonic solid)

For referance:

d4: Fire
d6: Earth
d8: Air
d12: Aether
d20: Water

[Draz74]

I vote not having Elves and Dwarves as the precursor races. If anything, you could borrow a page out of The Giant's The New World series, and have Gnomes be the precursor race -- magically talented and with an Egyptian flavor.

[Ganders]

I already tend to flavor some of my characters in that way. Medieval times really don't seem too far removed from ancient times, because the dark ages ruined many things, resulting in most medieval technologies being not much more advanced.

It's really easy to imagine swords and breastplates being bronze instead of steel -- it's not at all inconsistent with the descriptions in the PHB. Perhaps magic weapons could be steel. There are a few anachronisms like full plate armor and rapiers that you might want to avoid, but otherwise it's an easy adjustment. Barrels and crossbows did exist in some areas, but probably better to remove them and make amphoras the standard.

I've always been under the impression that rulers consulted oracles, who were important political players, but were themselves fighters, perhaps successful army generals. But maybe that's just Sparta.

Giants were indeed more popular myths back then, but honestly giants are also more popular in medieval stories than D&D gives them credit for. BTW, I've always been quite fond of the explanation that ancient myths, with all the weird hybrid creatures, were either created by or justified by dinosaur bones. Seeing the size and shape of triceratops skulls and tyrannosaur legbones, people would try to figure what sort of creature those had been. And if someone tells you a silly ridiculous story about cyclopses, but then brings out a big triceratops skull as proof (which has a hole in the center for the horn that kinda looks like an eye socket), it suddenly becomes a lot more believable.

[Kiero]

There's a really strong statement you could make for it not being "regular D&D in sandals" - make humans the only mammalian humanoid species.

[Sigreid]

Really, for monsters everything is fair game. Anyone familiar with Greek mythology knows the gods frequently punished mortals by turning a mortal into something horrific to terrorize the city until a hero puts it down.

[JackPhoenix]

I approve of the reduction in the number of playable races (and sapient species' overall) and the inclusion of serpent/lizard/reptilian-man enemies. Though those don't really fit much with classic mythology and more with sword & sorcery and pulp stories. Also, in antique myths, most monsters weren't species (centaurs and nature spirit-types like satyrs and nymphs are an exception), but singular entities often created by some sort of divine intervention, or with unknown origin. That's not entirely ideal for D&D purposes, but games where most opponents are humans are entirely possible.

Also, S&S stories often include Lovecraftian eldritch horrors, though those have nothing to do with classic mythology.


Giants were indeed more popular myths back then, but honestly giants are also more popular in medieval stories than D&D gives them credit for. BTW, I've always been quite fond of the explanation that ancient myths, with all the weird hybrid creatures, were either created by or justified by dinosaur bones. Seeing the size and shape of triceratops skulls and tyrannosaur legbones, people would try to figure what sort of creature those had been. And if someone tells you a silly ridiculous story about cyclopses, but then brings out a big triceratops skull as proof (which has a hole in the center for the horn that kinda looks like an eye socket), it suddenly becomes a lot more believable.

Triceratops doesn't have a hole in the center. The horns are part of the skull, and it looks nothing like humanoid skull. You're thinking of elephants. There's some evidence, though, that the triceratops skull (with the beak) could be an inspiration for a griffin... you may notice ancient depictions of griffins sometimes have horns.

[JoeJ]

My World of Battersea is also based on antiquity, although iron age rather than bronze. Some of the technological differences from standard D&D that I have are:

- No plate armor, although there is half-plate and splint.
- No clear glass. That also means no lenses, and mirrors are made of polished metal.
- No platinum. (Which really shouldn't exist in a medieval setting either.)
- No ball bearings. (These really shouldn't exist in any pre-industrial revolution setting.) Glass marbles do exist, though.

Culturally, most priests serve the entire pantheon rather than a single deity. In large cities, priests are usually assigned to individual temples by their superiors.

For a bronze age setting, you might also consider eliminating draft and war horses, and representing riding horses by using the mule statblock but with a speed of 60 feet. The role of cavalry would be performed by chariots, not riders on horseback.

[BurgerBeast]

I’ve played around with this idea as well, and I thought I would use a race such as Empyrians to actually be the gods of the world, living on an Olympus-like mountain that is visible to all and can be reached by a anyone who wishes to walk there. Likewise for the Hades-like underworld. It can be walked-to and entered, provided you can foil the guardian(s).

One thing I thought would be cool in a huge sandboxy world would be to have stories about the “scaled folk,” the “giants,” the “mermen” etc. But to have the world appear to be a mundane human-only world. As the characters travel farther, they meet progressively more and more extreme versions of these fantastic races.

Example: there is a legend about technologically advanced gnomes who have entire underground cities of wonder with gadgets and machines... but no one has ever seen them. They live under a forest in the East. If the PCs travel east they come upon tribes of shorter-than-average humans who operate ships using advanced navigational tools such as sextants and spyglasses. So they think these are the source of the myth. But if they probe further they discover dwarves who display even more advanced technologies. Again, they think they’ve solved the mystery of the “gnomes.”

But if they go even further into the forests they may encounter truly wondrous cities of wonder that are entirely underground, populated by true gnomes.

You could do something similar with the idea that “gods” live on “Olympus.” First a race of tall, beautiful men... farther up maybe cloud or storm giants... higher still the true gods (Empyreans).

[JackPhoenix]

I’ve played around with this idea as well, and I thought I would use a race such as Empyrians to actually be the gods of the world, living on an Olympus-like mountain that is visible to all and can be reached by a anyone who wishes to walk there. Likewise for the Hades-like underworld. It can be walked-to and entered, provided you can foil the guardian(s).

I use something similar in my vaguely antique/S&S setting (heavily inspired by Dominions/Conquest of Elysium games): Empyreans... I mean, "titans" (each associated with one cleric domain, and modelled after Greek gods... there's not-Ares for War, not-Athena for Knowledge, etc.) rule a bunch of city-states, with each serving as a patron god to a single city, but being worshipped in all of them. The cities are warring and trading with each other semi-regularily, but the presence of the titans (who won't leave their respective cities) ensures the cities themselves can't really be conquered, as each is more than capable of destroying an invading army. The city-states are largely self-sufficient, but each also has a specialization based on their titan... the one with War titan is basically Sparta, the one with Death titan has access to great mineral wealth from the underground, while the one with Forge titan can make the best use of it, so they trade more often than they fight, etc.. The wars are as much for the titans' amusement as for any practical or political reasons.

The world is also bowl-shaped with a sea in the middle, impassable mountains around the rim behind which is an endless cosmic void (filled with lovecraftian *things*), and a tiny, magical sun that rises from a pit every day and goes straight up and down instead of any sort of orbit. And no moon. That has a weird effect on navigation (no east, west or north and south diractions, there's sunward and nightward) and timekeeping (no seasons). And the sun always shining from one direction has an influence on a lot of thing... nightward side of a building (or a hill) will never see direct sunlight, for one.

[JoeJ]

In keeping with the ancient theme, in my World of Battersea all sorcerers are descended from unions between gods and mortals. Bards gain their powers from the not-Muses, and have to use their gifts in public performances from time to time.

Also, monks have no connection to religion or mysticism. They are simply skilled athletes who train in gymnasiums rather than monasteries, and who do not as a group adhere to any particular religious or philosophical belief system. Most monks have the Entertainer (Gladiator) background, but this is not required for player characters. In the World of Battersea ki is called spirit. The only monastic traditions available to PCs are the Way of the Open Hand, the Way of the Drunken Master, and the Way of the Kensai. When a Way of the Kensai monk chooses their tradition at 3rd level they gain proficiency in vehicles (land) instead of calligrapher’s or painter’s supplies, reflecting experience in chariot fighting. Way of Shadow exists as well, but it is the secret knowledge of one particular thieves' guild.

I probably should come up with different names for the class and subclasses, but I haven't yet.

[Yora]

I can actually think of two D&D settings that went into this grneral direction.

The first one is Dark Sun, which really made a big effort to have a clear break from the medieval influences. There are city states ruled by divine kings, large populations of slaves, and they completely replaced the entire lineup of creatures, though with nothing taken from ancient myths.

The other one is Primeval Thule. I read that one once, but can't really remember much about it.

[Sigreid]

If you really want that Ancient Greek Mythology feel, the gods aren't some distant unknowable beings. They are active in the affairs of mortals, mostly for their own amusement and some ego stroking.

[JoeJ]

If you really want that Ancient Greek Mythology feel, the gods aren't some distant unknowable beings. They are active in the affairs of mortals, mostly for their own amusement and some ego stroking.

Which makes looting a temple a VERY BAD IDEA.

[hamishspence]

Triceratops doesn't have a hole in the center. The horns are part of the skull, and it looks nothing like humanoid skull. You're thinking of elephants. There's some evidence, though, that the triceratops skull (with the beak) could be an inspiration for a griffin... you may notice ancient depictions of griffins sometimes have horns.
Triceratops has only ever been found in America. I'm told that its distant cousin, Protoceratops (found in Mongolia), might have had some of its fossils found early enough to contribute to griffin mythology.

[Edgerunner]

I vote not having Elves and Dwarves as the precursor races. If anything, you could borrow a page out of The Giant's The New World series, and have Gnomes be the precursor race -- magically talented and with an Egyptian flavor.

IMO Halflings seem to fit even better. Just the Wee Men that are essentially Human but smaller

[Edgerunner]

If you really want that Ancient Greek Mythology feel, the gods aren't some distant unknowable beings. They are active in the affairs of mortals, mostly for their own amusement and some ego stroking.

Gods could be Elves and Half-Elf could be Demi-Gods???

[RossN]

Have you considered Mazes & Minotaurs (http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html)?

It is a free d20 game that began as a vaguely satirical alternate history idea ('what if the original D&D drew more from Greek mythology and Ray Harryhausen films than from Tolkein and co?') but quickly developed into a proper game where the only satirical element left is the fictional backstory of the game itself being cooked up in the early 1970s.

I'd highly recommend at least looking at it for inspiration if nothing else; while the 'core' game is very focused on Greek-style city states there is a lot of extra background material dealing with the setting's version of Persia, Carthage and so on.

[Ventruenox]

The other one is Primeval Thule. I read that one once, but can't really remember much about it.

It's a blend of Conan & Lovecraft mythos with a lot of common modern enemies (orcs for instance) refluffed as Neanderthal like savages. After reading it, I will say that it is a great setting. The background mechanics get a bit weird, but it is one that I will propose to my group for the next campaign.

[Yora]

Triceratops has only ever been found in America. I'm told that its distant cousin, Protoceratops (found in Mongolia), might have had some of its fossils found early enough to contribute to griffin mythology.

It has a beak, is the size of a big cat, and is found in large numbers in the same areas that where the primary sources for Greek gold. And griphons guard gold. Pretty spot on.

And you can assemble mammoth bones into quite convincing humanoid configurations.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--VjGClkbX--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/194r8otsg74d1jpg.jpg https://pilgrimjustpilgrim.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/cyclops-2.jpg?w=315&h=417

Some years ago, a Greek paleonthologist read an ancient story about a battle of the gods the left the ground red with blood for the rest of time. He recognized the place as being near where his grandparents lived, that had deep red rocks, and when he went there to check if there are any good fossiles, it turned out to be indeed full with mammoth bones.

Ancient Greek temples often had museums with "bones from the ancient heroes" alongside other relics. They actually did engage in some early paleonthology, recognizing correctly that long before them there used to be huge animals that had become extinct in their time.

[RossN]

There is an OSR game called Mazes and Minotaurs. (http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html)
Check it out.

Uh, I posted that link only a couple of posts above yours. :smallconfused:

[KorvinStarmast]

Huh, I must have been speed scrolling. I'll delete that post.

[RossN]

Huh, I must have been speed scrolling. I'll delete that post.

It's cool. To be honest I'm just glad I'm not the only one who has heard of and likes Mazes & Minotaurs. :smallsmile:

Another possible source of inspiration are The Glory of Rome (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/16918/HR5-The-Glory-of-Rome-Campaign-Sourcebook-2e?it=1) and Age of Heroes (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/16920/HR6-Age-of-Heroes-Campaign-Sourcebook-2e?it=1) which are official AD&D sourcebooks for Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece respectively. They are written for the 2nd edition rules so you'd need to do some tweaking but they are also written specifically with D&D adventuring in mind with advice on things like working magic into the setting.

[JackPhoenix]

Triceratops has only ever been found in America. I'm told that its distant cousin, Protoceratops (found in Mongolia), might have had some of its fossils found early enough to contribute to griffin mythology.

Fair enough, I knew it was one of the ceratopsidae family, but couldn't be bothered to check which one exactly, so I defaulted to the most well known.

[Thrudd]

I think that snake/lizard people with a jungle empire feels less Near East bronze age/antiquity and more precursor civilization or Lost World style - it belongs in something like Howard's Hyperborea or an age of exploration style expeditions into darkest africa/the deep amazon.
If we're going back to Atlantis, Lemuria, still-living empires of lizard people in the jungle, etc, we're not in antiquity or Homer's mythological bronze age, or even Gilgamesh's mythic near east. We're Antediluvian, the lost world before the flood, pre-cataclysm, before the ice-age type stuff.

Not that you can't mix elements of different periods as much as you want.

You might take some inspiration from Herodotus for some of the fantastical things in distant lands - as someone else mentioned, increasingly magical and bizarre things are generally thought to exist the farther you go from the central civilization (whichever one you're a part of).
For instance, you probably know the gryphons guarding gold is from Herodotus - they were said to live in the far north/north east, beyond the land of the Scythians - where also a race of one-eyed people (arimaspoi) lived who were constantly warring with the gryphons. In far eastern India, there was a desert inhabited by giant fur-covered ants. The people there would dig through their ant-hills looking for gold mixed in the sand, and would often get attacked by the ants which could run extremely fast.
Arabia was full of winged, flying snakes that lived in the fragrant trees which were the source for the world's most amazing spices (like frankincense). They have to shoo them away with great amounts of fragrant smoke to harvest the trees.
Thracians told him that nobody goes north of the river Ister because there are "too many bees". Herodotus thinks it's too cold for bees to be much trouble that far north, so he doesn't believe it.
but what does he know? Maybe there is a land beset by giant, furry bees that defend their hives so ferociously nobody has gotten past them (we already know there's giant furry ants, after all).

Then you can look to Homer for ideas about the distribution or types of people living around the Mediterranean - Odysseus meets the Phaeacians, on the island of Scheria, who are a race of people closer to the gods than normal humans - they have magical wonders on their island, including magic ships that are sailed by the power of thought, no rowing or steering necessary. They have dogs guarding their palace made of precious metal forged by Hephaestos, their fruit trees grow year round, a magical lighting system comprised of statues holding glowing torches. They live on an island somewhere to the west of Greece. Elves?

Of course, you have gigantes and titans of greek myth, and all manner of monsters that heroes run into - the Hekatoncheires of Hesiod were the giants with one hundred arms that helped Zeus overthrow the titans. Artistic depictions of gigantomachy show men with snake bodies in place of legs opposing the gods.

The epic of Gilgamesh contains some good ideas for the Near East heroic age, too. Scorpion men guarding the path to the under-mountain/passage to the spirit world. Humbaba the lion-faced, fire-breathing giant, who guards the cedar forest of Lebanon on behalf of the king of the gods (and is defeated by Gilgamesh and Enkidu with the blessing of the god Shumash, the protector of human kind).

It certainly makes sense for a Near East feel that there are magical priest-kings - but sometimes there can be semi-divine hero kings, too, like Gilgamesh. He built the city (Uruk) himself, or at least built its walls and monuments and made it great.

How do you mash 5e into a world like this? Even if you aren't removing or limiting the magic using classes, I would make magic-users fairly rare in terms of demographics- PCs with magic powers are among a very small number of people with such knowledge and abilities. Of course, their enemies will also often be a part of this elite demographic.

New spells and abilities might be found by going to strange new lands, where the people display some special talent or have a strange and magical practice or ability (like the Phaeacians, or the lotus eaters, or Circe). You maybe hear about a witch on a far away island that can turn men into animals - the PC's journey there to find out if it's true, and she gives them tasks to perform for her, in return for which she can teach one of them the "polymorph" spell (and probably give them some gold or gems, too.) From the lotus-eaters, there are enchantment and/or illusion spells, etc.

[Yora]

When you want to have "D&D fantasy, inspired by antiquity", I think it's kind of a given to create a big blend of pieces from all over the place. Otherwise you'll end up back playing a regular campaign of Greek heroes.

[Thrudd]

When you want to have "D&D fantasy, inspired by antiquity", I think it's kind of a given to create a big blend of pieces from all over the place. Otherwise you'll end up back playing a regular campaign of Greek heroes.

It's just a quibble, really. When you say "inspired by antiquity", I probably incorrectly hear/assume "classical antiquity", which is specific, rather than the more general definition of everything/anything before Medieval Europe (including far distant mythical eras).

[Beleriphon]

I can actually think of two D&D settings that went into this grneral direction.

The first one is Dark Sun, which really made a big effort to have a clear break from the medieval influences. There are city states ruled by divine kings, large populations of slaves, and they completely replaced the entire lineup of creatures, though with nothing taken from ancient myths.

The other one is Primeval Thule. I read that one once, but can't really remember much about it.

Its basically Hyboria with the serial numbers filed off.

[RossN]

It's just a quibble, really. When you say "inspired by antiquity", I probably incorrectly hear/assume "classical antiquity", which is specific, rather than the more general definition of everything/anything before Medieval Europe (including far distant mythical eras).

I think that's a significant point. There is an vast difference between, say, Agamemnon's Greece and Hadrian's Rome. 'Antiquity' can mean the gods literally walking around and the hillfort the next hill over being a foreign country or it can mean an immense multicultural empire where magic is something practiced by secretive mystery cults in the heart of the metropolis.

[JoeJ]

I think that's a significant point. There is an vast difference between, say, Agamemnon's Greece and Hadrian's Rome. 'Antiquity' can mean the gods literally walking around and the hillfort the next hill over being a foreign country or it can mean an immense multicultural empire where magic is something practiced by secretive mystery cults in the heart of the metropolis.

Although there is also the historical model that has everything in the ancient world pretty much all happening at the same time (the Hercules/Xena model).

[Sharur]

Its basically Hyboria with the serial numbers filed off.

Would you consider that a good thing or a bad thing? All I know about Hyboria is that it's where Conan the Barbarian is supposed to be set...

[JoeJ]

Would you consider that a good thing or a bad thing? All I know about Hyboria is that it's where Conan the Barbarian is supposed to be set...

From reading the free Traveler's Guide (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/129630/Primeval-Thule-Travelers-Guide), it seems to me to be a very good thing. Good enough that I picked up the campaign setting book, which is currently still on my queue to read.