How to deal with problem players.

[Devidein]

I have a player in my group that is a problem player. And I honestly I have no clue how to deal with him.

The latest issue is last game session, he made a Chaotic good Character. ok no problem.
The issue arises when the group captured a goblin had it tied up and completely helpless. The party's druid is trying to interrogate it but before I get a chance to do that scene the guy has his character snatch the bound goblin away from the druid saying "I'm more intimidating" ok roll intimidation. roll fails. So the goblin looked at him and called him a fat f*ck. and with that he kills the captive goblin. Our party paladin protests the senseless killing and that gets him shoved in to the monster infested mine and the guy has his character block the entrance so the paladin can't get back out. the two hallings are staying out of it their player is rolling his eyes. I as the Dm tell the Paladin (who's a new dnd player) his options as a paladin of that particular deity.

Well the problem player then gets upset and starts in on how his character is chaotic and killing a defenseless prisoner was justified solely based on being insulted because it hurt his characters feelings. And being a Chaotic he can do what he likes. I remind him chaotic simply means he doesn't like the strict laws and traditions and prefers personal freedoms, but the good also means while wanting personal freedoms he is a good aligned person and good people don't kill outside of self defense. He accused me of railroading him into a alignment and that alignments are just guidelines and how none of his other dms enforced alignments.

Well it escalated from there when the paladin said he would just remove aid and support from the offending character. (ok it's in the tenets of the deity) so the problem player then proceeds to threaten to leave the party and hire a new group, threaten to not aid the group, and went on how he won't need the paladin once he gets up high enough in levels. Just this massive temper tantrum all because his actions had a consequence. And proceeded to sulk the rest of the session on his phone. And after the game session he tries to out of character bully the paladin's player with more threats of what he could do in game, and how he was tougher than the paladin (the paladin has better stats than this guys character) and he could easily win in a fight against him, etc, etc. At this point I told him to shut up and suck it up he did something that got him backlash now he has to deal with it.

That's just the latest. He has tried to strong arm other pc's in to doing what he wants, he runs roughshod over npc and pc, He refuses to accept my rulings as a Dm, play within the campaign setting, refuses to let other Players interact with Npcs, barely lets me describe a scene or even talk to other players to answer those actions, and he tries to co dm and tell me what is happening in my campaign. I have spoken to him and he claims to understand, but he continues to do it. He ignores in game penalties, natural consequence and throws fits. (see above). He has been kicked out of pretty much every group he's played in.


So honestly what do I do with this guy outside of kicking him out?

[Jack_Simth]

So honestly what do I do with this guy outside of kicking him out?

Why is that not an option? You noted that you already tried talking it out.

He is at least partially correct, though. Alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive. Having CG on that spot on the sheet doesn't restrict character actions. However, consistent non-CG behavior means the spot needs to be changed.

[Devidein]

Why is that not an option? You noted that you already tried talking it out.

He is at least partially correct, though. Alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive. Having CG on that spot on the sheet doesn't restrict character actions. However, consistent non-CG behavior means the spot needs to be changed.


The issue with him is I know he won't play within any particular alignment. In a single game session he can bounce between good and evil behaviors constantly, there is no consistency in behaviors. He decides what based on whim and what he deems will be "fun" at that moment particularly if it takes the limelight off another player, rather than what would be suitable for the current situation. If he did things that was situationally appropriate that would be one thing, but he isn't. But the alignments are suppose to give the DM some idea what to expect out of the character, given some spells are alignment based for casting, effects, etc. He would literally being changing the alignment spot constantly.

In another game his lawful char would attempt to break the law just for the sake of it.

[JNAProductions]

Talk to the other players, see what they think. Chances are, if you've described the situation accurately, they aren't too happy either.

If no one wants him in the group... Don't have him be part of the group.

[Quertus]

Why is that not an option? You noted that you already tried talking it out.

He is at least partially correct, though. Alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive. Having CG on that spot on the sheet doesn't restrict character actions. However, consistent non-CG behavior means the spot needs to be changed.

To build on this, I say you should remove alignment, and all classes that require alignment, from your game.

So, remake the whole party. It'll be much easier for the Paladin's player anyway.

Then explain to this player the following concept: the police take you into custody. They have you handcuffed, as their "prisoner". You call one of the cops fat. He shoots and kills you.

How do you believe that others will react to hearing the details of your death?

Will they say, yeah, you totally had it coming? Or will they be appalled the (psycho/socio)path police officer's actions?

[Devidein]

Talk to the other players, see what they think. Chances are, if you've described the situation accurately, they aren't too happy either.

If no one wants him in the group... Don't have him be part of the group.


I'm running a 3 player group. I know 1 of the players isn't happy and not having fun. But I can't ask the second player because he's married to the problem player and will do whatever the he's told by the problem player. And if I kick the problem player I lose player number 2 because he'll be forced out by his husband.

[Devidein]

To build on this, I say you should remove alignment, and all classes that require alignment, from your game.

So, remake the whole party. It'll be much easier for the Paladin's player anyway.

Then explain to this player the following concept: the police take you into custody. They have you handcuffed, as their "prisoner". You call one of the cops fat. He shoots and kills you.

How do you believe that others will react to hearing the details of your death?

Will they say, yeah, you totally had it coming? Or will they be appalled the (psycho/socio)path police officer's actions?



We have remade the party. His prior char was a cleric that would only heal you if you did what he told you to do. And would try to break the law just for the sake of breaking the law.
And I tried to use a RL scenario to get him to understand why he got In game backlash from his follow players. And he honestly couldn't understand the fact that if in real life if he attacked and killed people just for insulting him that he would be in trouble and people would view him negatively.


Also mind you this guy has been a DM himself for years.

[Hackulator]

I mean it sounds like you've tried and it may be time to kick him from the group, however there is one other option I might suggest that is somewhat extreme but less so than just kicking him. Speak to the other players without him present and ask them how they feel about him as a player and how their characters feel about his character. If they are bothered by his behavior and their characters dislike his character, suggest they kick the **** out of his character in game. Clearly don't kill him because LG Paladin, however fighting someone who tried to trap you in a cave full of monsters is perfectly acceptable. Have them leave him by the side of the road and move on and have them explain to his character that he can either change his behavior and rejoin the party or leave the party and by extension, the player will have to leave the group. If he gets the message and tries to change, good, if he doesn't get the message then goodbye.

Edit: Nevermind I missed the part where the problem player was married to another player. You're pretty much borked, I would tell him that you consider him a problem player and he needs to either change his attitude or you will stop running the game. Otherwise you have to just suck it up.

[Buufreak]

We have remade the party. His prior char was a cleric that would only heal you if you did what he told you to do. And would try to break the law just for the sake of breaking the law.
And I tried to use a RL scenario to get him to understand why he got In game backlash from his follow players. And he honestly couldn't understand the fact that if in real life if he attacked and killed people just for insulting him that he would be in trouble and people would view him negatively.


Also mind you this guy has been a DM himself for years.

So why hasn't he done just that? Are you honestly telling me this person has never been insulted once in his entire life? And he didn't immediately snap and put a pen through a trachea?

I'm sorry, but the idea that this person would and has acted the same way in real life and sees no consequences in either situation leads me to believe either a) he is being an obtuse ass or b) belongs in prison to serve out a multiple life sentence.

And frankly, either would be fine so long as it leads to more fun for you at your table.

[Devidein]

So why hasn't he done just that? Are you honestly telling me this person has never been insulted once in his entire life? And he didn't immediately snap and put a pen through a trachea?

I'm sorry, but the idea that this person would and has acted the same way in real life and sees no consequences in either situation leads me to believe either a) he is being an obtuse ass or b) belongs in prison to serve out a multiple life sentence.

And frankly, either would be fine so long as it leads to more fun for you at your table.


I honestly think he's being deliberately obtuse about it. He hates dealing with the fact if you do action A then Others will react and treat you accordingly. He wants to be able to do what he wants without penalty.
He also likes punishing people for not doing what he wants, He refused to heal a player (stating your not suppose to know other player's hit points as the excuse for not healing them) after that player refused to just blindly go along with him and chose to go shopping with his character.

So it maybe what he tried to do here, punish me for being the DM and putting my foot down about his behavior; kind of the whole "if I can't do what I want, then I'll ruin things for you." And since it failed he is throwing another hissy fit. He only cares about his fun no one else's so no one but him is having any fun.

[Thedez]

I honestly think he's being deliberately obtuse about it. He hates dealing with the fact if you do action A then Others will react and treat you accordingly. He wants to be able to do what he wants without penalty.
He also likes punishing people for not doing what he wants, He refused to heal a player (stating your not suppose to know other player's hit points as the excuse for not healing them) after that player refused to just blindly go along with him and chose to go shopping with his character.

So it maybe what he tried to do here, punish me for being the DM and putting my foot down about his behavior; kind of the whole "if I can't do what I want, then I'll ruin things for you." And since it failed he is throwing another hissy fit. He only cares about his fun no one else's so no one but him is having any fun.

Truth be told, you really should kick him. I understand you might want the other player, but they're just as willing to ruin your table with his antics as he is, and if that's the case, then they can go, too. They're welcome to come back--Without him--But don't let the second party prevent you from kicking the offending party.

[Galacktic]

No gaming is better than bad gaming. Get rid of any problem players, and the people who go with them. Life is too short to bother with people like that for game-nights. There will -always- be more games in the future.

[Holya]

Look.. I get it.. You don't want your group to dissolve.. But this is the thing here.. Just because they are married.. Just because you like ONE of the two from the couple.. Doesn't mean it balances out letting your other player suffer through it.. I'm sorry but I would have left your group fairly quickly because I rather have no game then a game where someone is power tripping and expects everyone else to bend over and ask for it harder.. And thats what your problem player is doing. Who knows maybe they are a nice person outside of gaming. Maybe they are a shining beacon of the community and children should aspire to be like them. But if it is even a fraction of what you describe in the game? Kick them.. Or tell your other player that you won't blame them if they walk because the third man, woman, plant, or what ever is playing with ya? They don't deserve to suffer through the hissy fits of a power tripping man child.. Hell I don't know how the partner in that marriage deals with it if they are being bossed around and pretty much treated like a child by their partner.

So the Tldr here.. Tell your other player that can leave and you will understand.. Or kick the problem and let the toxic relationship that is that marriage implode when the problem player doesn't have others to power trip on... OR force the problem player out by introducing them to your magical realm.

[Quertus]

We have remade the party. His prior char was a cleric that would only heal you if you did what he told you to do. And would try to break the law just for the sake of breaking the law.
And I tried to use a RL scenario to get him to understand why he got In game backlash from his follow players. And he honestly couldn't understand the fact that if in real life if he attacked and killed people just for insulting him that he would be in trouble and people would view him negatively.


Also mind you this guy has been a DM himself for years.


I honestly think he's being deliberately obtuse about it. He hates dealing with the fact if you do action A then Others will react and treat you accordingly. He wants to be able to do what he wants without penalty.
He also likes punishing people for not doing what he wants, He refused to heal a player (stating your not suppose to know other player's hit points as the excuse for not healing them) after that player refused to just blindly go along with him and chose to go shopping with his character.

So it maybe what he tried to do here, punish me for being the DM and putting my foot down about his behavior; kind of the whole "if I can't do what I want, then I'll ruin things for you." And since it failed he is throwing another hissy fit. He only cares about his fun no one else's so no one but him is having any fun.

Yeah, um... If you cannot recycle / Mindrape him, then... your choice seem limited to: engineer a game where he cannot **** it up; eat the sanity loss for him being a **** in normal games, or not play.

It sounds like, if he has any power, he will try to lord it over others. So, force him to play a powerless, incorporeal being, cursed into a half-existence until it could gain empathy. It has only just learned enough empathy to seen & heard (perhaps only the party), but loses that privilege when it backslides. Color blue to taste.

[Darth Ultron]

This player is playing an alignment: Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil. So, why not just ''let'' him play an evil alignment. The character is disruptive....evil people are disruptive. The character does not work well in a group...evil people don't work well in groups quite often.

As to what to do.....

You might want to change your Game Style.

Look, this is simple, if you the DM make the game so that the characters capture foes and interrogate them....well, it's a slipper slope where bad things can happen. As you have seen. So the answer is simple: have no prisoners to interrogate. Have the goblin get away, or have the goblin have a poison filled tooth or have the goblin polymorph into a stink weed.

Along the same line...maybe don't have your goblin NPC provoke the problem player to START a problem you don't want. There are roughly 1,000 other reactions the goblin could have done other then ''cheap insult".

I don't recommend doing this, but it does work: Box the Character.

Box a Character: It's like you put an invisible box around the character so they can't act in the game world. As DM, things only happen if you say they do: it does not matter what a player says.

Example: He ''tries" to kill the goblin. His character stabs the goblin and does 100 points of damage. As DM you just say as the goblin that is still alive "Ow, that hurt" and have the goblin walk back over to the druid and be like "so you were asking me a question?" And, sure, he will go nuts and chances are he will attack and ''try'' to kill the goblin again. Of course you just do the "ow" and keep having the goblin interact with the other players.

One of my favorite twists here is the 'infinite clone'. Where the ''killed'' goblin will just walk over and look at the dead goblin body and say something like ''the reports of my death ave been greatly exaggerated". They player can have a good old time endless killing the same goblin again and again and again.

Another twist...and oh, this one is so bad...is to make his character intangible. Yep. Instant problem solver, as his character can't physically effect the world any more.

And for yet another twist for the player: So the player fails the intimidation check...BUT you, the DM, have the goblin cower and tell the character ''everything''. Oh...this is again so bad. The player will *know* the character failed the check (tell them if you must), but will get all the results as if the check succeeded. At best this will confuse the player....and at worst...wow, watch out.

I can say the above ways work well, but I don't recommend doing them.

[Hackulator]

-snip-

I have to say that I think any attempt to enable this guy who is clearly not just roleplaying but actively being a jerk is a bad idea not just in game but in life. I suppose if there is no other way to save the game and he is desperate to keep it running it might be his only option but honestly changing the way you play to mollify this guy who is being total douche is just not the way to go through life. Basically, don't negotiate with terrorists. He will simply learn that all he has to do is be an ******* to get you to do what he wants.

[martixy]

I'd stop him and explain the cause-effect relationship between alignment and actions and how he's got it all backwards.

Though honestly.

Kick him the fu out!

From your description he has clear issues separating fantasy from reality.

He is NOT suited to playing the type of game he is in.

He's a guy with no legs trying to play football. It's in the name FOOT. ROLE.

[zlefin]

The issue with him is I know he won't play within any particular alignment. In a single game session he can bounce between good and evil behaviors constantly, there is no consistency in behaviors. He decides what based on whim and what he deems will be "fun" at that moment particularly if it takes the limelight off another player, rather than what would be suitable for the current situation. If he did things that was situationally appropriate that would be one thing, but he isn't. But the alignments are suppose to give the DM some idea what to expect out of the character, given some spells are alignment based for casting, effects, etc. He would literally being changing the alignment spot constantly.

In another game his lawful char would attempt to break the law just for the sake of it.

it sounds like the actual alignment of most of his character is either chaotic evil, chaotic neutral, or chaotic stupid.
feel free to change their alignment to however it is they're acting.


I'd also agree with the notion that they should be kicked; better to have a one on one game than deal with someone being a willful jerk.

[Buufreak]

Intentionally obtuse? Screw it, dude, walk away. It's not worth the effort. Point this ass towards a gta game where he can be a chode as much as he wants and move on.

[King of Nowhere]

The issue with him is I know he won't play within any particular alignment. In a single game session he can bounce between good and evil behaviors constantly, there is no consistency in behaviors. He decides what based on whim and what he deems will be "fun" at that moment

seems like CE to me. he does what he finds fun, regardless of consequences. And while disregard for conseuqences on himself is linked to chaotic, disregard for consequences on others is evil. the way you describe, he sounds like xykon.

now, you can have evil and good characters in the same party, but it requires a bit of ooc haggling between the players, and it requires the players being willing to compromise and figure a course of action that will satisfy anyone. which clearly your guy is not doing. heck, the very fact that he takes a drastic and no-comeback action like killing a prisoner without consulting the rest of the party (I mean, we had prisoners in my party, and we discussed what to do with them and sometimes we killed them, but never it happened that someone just acted alone) shows he's not a team player.

I agree with the general consensus, if the player is really that bad, kick him and the spouse may follow freely. And then you may eventually find better people to fill your party.

[bean illus]

Create a chart where each npc he interacts insultingly with has a percent chance of reacting appropriately.

Create another where chaotic alignments might be preemptively dangerous or insulting to him.

Let it play out.

[skunk3]

Be direct with him and explain your issues exactly. Also, keep track of his actions and change his alignment accordingly and if this impacts his class abilities, so be it. If he can't get with the program after being up front with him then just kick him from the game even if it means ending the game. Screw playing with someone like that.

[heavyfuel]

I've dealt with two problem players the exact same way.

"Dude, you're my friend and I like you, so I'm gonna be straight with you. You gotta stop <insert problematic action>, if you don't, you're out of the game."

Works like a charm

[Devidein]

Thank you Everyone for your advice. I have a pretty good idea what I am going to do with him, And it may either get him to wise up or he will leave on his own accord in his usual sulky hissy fit.

1. I'm going to start rewarding players that actually play the game.
2. Society within the game is going to treat him accordingly to his actions. So if he wants to be a mercurial *** He'll suffer for it.
3. Using some alignment specific items/ Areas/ etc.
4. And to deal with his butting in when other players are trying to rp, buy stuff, etc. He'll be ignored for the duration of said scenes.
And a few of the suggestions I got from here.

So basic consequences in and out of game for his behavior. If this doesn't work He's gone.

[Torpin]

get him to summon pazuzu twice, which makes him chaotic evil.
have him find a helm of opposite alignment. boom lawful good.
or just disolve the group and tell him why. be sure to be specific and if you can use the word funsucker

[Astralia123]

You know Living Greyhawk or things like that strictly forbid evil alignment. If you attack another PC without the approval of the other player, your character turns evil and becomes an NPC. A quick way to deal with trouble makers.

Obviously this is not actually an issue of not being evil or not to play out-of-character, it is the issue that no one should play an ass*ole.

[Astralia123]

I honestly think he's being deliberately obtuse about it. He hates dealing with the fact if you do action A then Others will react and treat you accordingly. He wants to be able to do what he wants without penalty.
He also likes punishing people for not doing what he wants, He refused to heal a player (stating your not suppose to know other player's hit points as the excuse for not healing them) after that player refused to just blindly go along with him and chose to go shopping with his character.

So it maybe what he tried to do here, punish me for being the DM and putting my foot down about his behavior; kind of the whole "if I can't do what I want, then I'll ruin things for you." And since it failed he is throwing another hissy fit. He only cares about his fun no one else's so no one but him is having any fun.

If that is the case, then you really should kick him out and find other players, rather than tolerating him.

I have got the feeling that he intentionally chose to harass the new player you've got, which really is an effective way to cause you lose players.

And even when you have him in the party, you can stop him from blackmailing other players with healing spells, by giving healing magical items or providing other options (like free heal from a nearby church).

[Calthropstu]

I wouldn't run for them. After a single session where problem player did this, I'd ask him to leave. I would boot his husband too. Then I would let the third know there would be a brief hiatus while I put together a new group.