Does this build have any hope of surviving?

[Arkhios]

Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 7
(we all rolled stats, and I got really bad ones tbh, but I'm determined to make the best of it)

3.5 human ranger (would-be-ranger 12/fighter4 by the end of the campaign), Two Weapon Fighting Combat Style.

1st level feats are two-bladed sword proficiency and one campaign relevant feat that doesn't really have a combat focus.

I'm planning to take weapon focus and specialization for TBS, Quick Draw, and possibly Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot and Improved Initiative in some order (don't worry, I can figure out a "schedule" for that on my own).

I'll probably start by evening out the odd dex at 4th level, followed by evening the odd str at 8th level, and continuing to increase dex at 12th and 16th levels.

I want the character to be useful as a high AC and high priority target, which I believe I'll be with the riduculous amount of attacks per round I'll be able to dish out eventually, but I wonder if I'll be sturdy or elusive enough.

I'm able to use only the "core" materials (basically only the stuff from OGL/SRD, excluding unearthed arcana), so any suggestion outside those parameters are unfortunately useless.

DISCLAIMER1: Obviously, I'm not trying to do everything on my own; I have a group of other adventurers to back up each other.
I'm unsure of their races, and I don't know/remember their ability scores, but their classes are as follows: Bard, Cleric, and Rogue.
In general, I'd prefer not to step on their toes.

DISCLAIMER2: As I mentioned earlier (below), my other ideas include a Psychic Warrior (Str 15, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 7) with a 2 level dip in ranger for free TWF. This build would have a whopping 13 hit points at start (Psionic Body and Psionic Talent granting a total of +4 extra hp), and an AC of 16 with chain shirt and heavy shield. AC 17 with Thicken Skin Power, twice a day for 10 min. at a time. Chain Shirt because I don't want a very high ACP because of reasons.

Another build was a Dwarf Fighter, dipping in wizard, but eventually a Dwarven Defender (Str 15, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 5; Fighter 4/Wizard 6/Dwarven Defender 6; feats including Brew Potions for buffs while wearing heavy armor). This build would have a reasonably high AC and decent hit points to back it up.

And a somewhat ridiculous (imo) human Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10 (Str 15, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 7), using stilled spells, combat expertise, and heavy armor. I doubt I'd be very intimidating or "tank-worthy" with it, until at around 4th level when I could cast Stilled 1st-level spells (I'd have to wear armor). And even if I was intimidating I wouldn't last long with my poor hit points, average being a 21 (1d10/3d4+4) at 4th level =S

[Vizzerdrix]

Don`t rangers loose most of their abilities when using anything greater than light armor? Might make tanking a bit rough.

[Arkhios]

Don`t rangers loose most of their abilities when using anything greater than light armor? Might make tanking a bit rough.

High AC ≠ Heavy Armor Only. That's why I plan to have high dexterity. That said, I wish I can get my hands upon a medium armor made from mithral which will count as light armor instead.

[Eldariel]

My very first character was a TWF/Archery Fighter with Two-Bladed Sword using mostly Core sources (with insane stats too, 18 Str/18 Dex/14 Con/18 Int/13 Wis/5 Cha or something like that) and I have to say, I had a miserable time by the end of it, constantly kicking myself over not simply going two-handed. Fact is, a simple Greatsword with decent strength has all the damage of a two-bladed sword and then some with zero feat investment (one point if you want Power Attack; if you Power Attack for -2, you have the same attack bonus on all your hits and overall deal 2 more points of damage - even if you took Weapon Specialization in both, you'd still have the same damage on full attack) with the option of power attacking, using reach weapons, etc. Since then I've run a Sublime Way Ranger with Archery combat style and a Greatsword and let me tell you, that worked 100 times better. Especially since you can switch-hit with it; use Guisarme, Falchion, etc. as appropriate. Though in your situation I might be inclined to consider sword'n'boarding (at least using Buckler in the off-hand so you can archery without having to drop the shield) instead.

To that end, I might consider going 15 Str, 13 Dex, etc. and just pumping your Strength. Str matters for bow damage too after all, while Dex works for you using Archery combat style. Alternatively go Wood Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#woodElf) and roll with 15 Str/17 Dex (admittedly 10 Con, 8 Int will sting particularly on a frontline non-human Ranger but c'est la vie - at least your AC and Ref will be decent). Ranger spells are kind of a big deal if you actually want to make the most out of your class and to that end you want to keep the Wisdom as high as possible so 11 Wisdom is definitely vindicated. But yes, your low AC and HP will definitely be a problem particularly if you intend on being a frontliner from early on; Barbarian would serve you much better for example, as would anything that can wear decent armor. You want at least 18 Dex to cap out with Chain Shirt (then 20 Dex to cap out with Mithril Breastplate later on) and you're nowhere near that. Your martial prowess is also mediocre, which will lead to drawn out engagements and thus lots of hits, which your 12 Con d8 HD is ill-equipped to handle.


Honestly, with stats that low I'd be inclined to just build a Cleric or a Druid instead and roll with spells making up for your lack of stats (15 Wis, 13 Str, 12 Con is a fine start for a Cleric). You can probably build the same character concept, just with more focus on buff spells. Perhaps Wild Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#wildElf) Cleric with the Longbow or Longsword+Shield switchhitting at 13 Str, 13 Dex, 12 Con, 5 Int, 15 Wis, 10 Cha. Then just roll with spells that buff your attack and to hit, though of course only getting Concentration for skills does sting. Though frankly, Human Cleric of whatever, burn a feat for Longbow and perhaps some nice Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain is a classic - though simple weapons are more than good enough too), put a decent score in Int and pick domains appropriately; that would let you do the skilly part too. Pick Trickery domain for stealth skills, Magic domain to use Wizard buff spell completion items like Enlarge Person too and then just go to town. Something like 13 Str, 10 Dex, 12 Con, 11 Int, 15 Dex, 7 Cha would be fine; Clerics don't actually need Cha for Turn Undead as it's kinda marginal and mostly item-dependent in Core.

Druid might be even better; animal companion is a great tank regardless of your stats and you too will be able to pick up the mantle on level 5 when you get Wildshape. Just get the appropriate items and go from there. Seriously, a war-trained Riding Dog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dogRiding.htm) with Studded Leather Barding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#bardingMediumCreatureandLarge Creature) has 19 AC and 13 HP on level 1 at no investment and then there's a Druid on top of it (offering the benefits of the Ride-skill to both, him and the mount (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/ride.htm)) casting Entangles and what-not. Also 4+Int skills, ability to replace physicals with Wildshape, etc. This would be by far the easiest way. You could even go Elf for proficiencies if you wanna Longbow and Longsword people to the face (though Druids get Scimitar automatically, which is just as good as Longsword, so it'd just be the Longbow; probably not worth the negative stat adjustments). You could use the same array as with Cleric or whatever; Druids are kinda awesome in that they work with any stats.

Both casters have spells to complement their fighting and survivability, which is just nice. Druid with Shillelagh, Cleric with Enlarge Person, etc. outfight mundane options from level 1.

[tiercel]

Eldariel makes a lot of great points, not least of which is that with poor stats (yikes, less than the elite array), a primary caster is probably just more feasible. Ranger needs more ability scores (you're going to have to get a Wisdom enhancing item just to cast the few spells you'd eventually get above 1st level, unless you drop your level-up bonuses into Wis), and Ranger spells are a LOT more attractive when Spell Compendium is on the table. Core only.... I mean, sure, get yourself some scrolls, even wands, so you can cast a spell more than twice a day, but, Core Ranger spellcasting is pretty... eh.

It's worth nothing that while a mithral breastplate is something that can come online eventually, it won't really change a character into a tank by itself (breastplate is only 1 more AC than chain shirt, and simply magicking up the chain shirt will be cheaper or the same price for a while, plus if you care about your physical skills, mithral chain shirt will stay slightly better in terms of ACP). You're probably going to want to gun for an animated shield ASAP rather than a mithral breastplate if AC is your game.

It depends on the kind of challenges your DM likes to throw around, but.. tanky you probably won't be. Let's assume you've gotten a chain shirt+1, a ring of protection +1, and have gotten to 4th level and evened out your Dex. Unless a party spellcaster is buffing you, your AC is going to be 18, and assuming your hit point rolling is a little more average than your ability scores, you'll have around 26hp. A bog-standard Core CR 3 ogre has +8 to hit, and will hit that AC just over half the time, doing an average of 16hp per hit. OK, yes, ogres are big bruisers for their CR, but... yikes.

A compromise in weapon style might to be primarily THF greatsword, but use the ranger TWF line to combo greatsword + armor spikes. While it's not my personal favorite aesthetic choice, if you're playing a sub-elite-array Ranger, I think you deserve all the breaks you can squeeze out. (Going THF and dumping combat styles for Wildshape Ranger would probably be best if it were allowed or if you can twist some pity out of your DM to give you *one thing* from UA.)

Whether "this build has any hope of surviving" is going to depend on the rest of your game. Of course, in principle, it has hope of surviving -- people play with the elite array, after all, and your stats aren't.. that.. much different than the elite array. What will matter is what kind of builds the rest of your party is going to be rocking and, more to the point, what challenges your DM thinks are appropriate as a result.

[Kayblis]

Both answers above me are very complete and cover a lot of ground. I'd just like to point out a few things related to playstyle and options.

First of all, your stats and resources are very low. TWF is a combat style that needs high stats to shine, specially if combined with archery and light armor. You are trying to combine the two most feat-intensive combat styles into a majroly Ranger build, which won't take you far. You also will need to enchant three weapons(both ends of the TBS, and the bow), which will make you worse at each.

Second, the Ranger is a lousy TWF candidate. TWF is usually a B-tier combat style, to make it shine you need some form of precision damage(like the Rogue) and/or some rider effect(like crit builds and enchants; lasting poisons work too). I do believe you'll do better with other class combinations - like something with Rogue and/or Scout. It can also boost your ranged damage, so there's more incentive too.

To close it, I strongly recommend you pick a feat that expands a feature when taking levels on another class(from worst to best in my opinion):
Swift Ambusher(Rogue/Scout) - Levels in both classes stack for Skirmish bonuses.
Swift Hunter(Ranger/Scout) - Levels stack for Skirmish bonuses and Favored Enemy bonuses.
Daring Outlaw(Rogue/swashbuckler) - Levels stack for Grace, dodge bonus, and Sneak Attack. This means you can have a Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 12 with 7d6 sneak attack and d10 HP! This feat alone makes the Swashbuckler not suck, and compared to the PHB martials it functions very very well.

[Arkhios]

TWF is usually a B-tier combat style, to make it shine you need some form of precision damage(like the Rogue) and/or some rider effect(like crit builds and enchants; lasting poisons work too). I do believe you'll do better with other class combinations - like something with Rogue and/or Scout. It can also boost your ranged damage, so there's more incentive too.

To close it, I strongly recommend you pick a feat that expands a feature when taking levels on another class(from worst to best in my opinion):
Swift Ambusher(Rogue/Scout) - Levels in both classes stack for Skirmish bonuses.
Swift Hunter(Ranger/Scout) - Levels stack for Skirmish bonuses and Favored Enemy bonuses.
Daring Outlaw(Rogue/swashbuckler) - Levels stack for Grace, dodge bonus, and Sneak Attack. This means you can have a Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 12 with 7d6 sneak attack and d10 HP! This feat alone makes the Swashbuckler not suck, and compared to the PHB martials it functions very very well.

Unfortunately, as I did say in the OP, options outside the "core" (SRD) are out of question, and both Scout and Swashbuckler are from supplements, as are those feats that let you get the most out of specific multiclasses (IIRC, Complete Warrior or Complete Adventurer).

On related matter, the races we have available are the bogstandard ones from the Player's Handbook, nothing else, so wood/wild elf etc. are "no-can-do" as much as I'd like otherwise.

To be entirely honest, I don't care if TWF is generally considered bad (or at least sub-par) as a combat style (with or without ranger on the table). I like the style for aesthetic reasons. However, your concerns have been noted and I'll probably take a few steps back to my previous build idea: Ranger 2/Psychic Warrior 14 (with Str 15, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 7) Obviously I would have to use medium or even heavy armor for a while, but eventually with Overchannel+Talented feats and Inertial Armor+Force Screen Powers I could replace armor entirely and run around naked if I wanted to (thus enabling the combat style even with my less than 15 Dexterity). This build would obviously have Psionic Body so my hit points would be a lot higher thanks to taking mostly psionic feats. Of course, with only 2 levels in Ranger, my off-hand attacks would be limited to just 1 per round, which might not be considered "worth it". Again, however, I like the style for aesthetic reasons and if I'm able to use it without massive penalties (that is, without twf feat), I'm fine with only one off-hand attack.

Naturally, with the stats given for the Ranger/Psychic Warrior combo I'd forget ranged combat (at least with weapons of my own; I might pick Expanded Knowledge for one or two Energy Powers).

[weckar]

To close it, I strongly recommend you pick a feat that expands a feature when taking levels on another class(from worst to best in my opinion):
Swift Ambusher(Rogue/Scout) - Levels in both classes stack for Skirmish bonuses.
Swift Hunter(Ranger/Scout) - Levels stack for Skirmish bonuses and Favored Enemy bonuses.
Daring Outlaw(Rogue/swashbuckler) - Levels stack for Grace, dodge bonus, and Sneak Attack. This means you can have a Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 12 with 7d6 sneak attack and d10 HP! This feat alone makes the Swashbuckler not suck, and compared to the PHB martials it functions very very well.
None of these are available, of course.

[Mordaedil]

Your chassis will be kinda weak, but I think you can manage fine? You don't really have much of a burst of damage potential since you aren't going rogue and going two weapons means your strength score is going to suffer.

It might be a good idea to add a 3 levels of rogue (or better yet assassin) to this so you can use your animal companion for some burst flanking damage. 2d6 is quite a bit when you get 6-7 attacks per round.

[MishimaRyu]

In your place, I would choose elf and mix some paladin with ranger levels (instead fighter).
Focus in DEX sonely (with Weapons Finesse and anything else to burst Hit) and try to get a Wounding Weapons (or both weapons with the same effect).
And trade the archery-feats for mounting and mobility feats.

But... with your rolls, that can be hard! Maybe 7/13/12/10/11/15 (that, being elf, would be 7/15/10/10/11/15).

For Prestige Class (if any), maybe Duelist?

[Arkhios]

In your place, I would choose elf and mix some paladin with ranger levels (instead fighter).
Focus in DEX sonely (with Weapons Finesse and anything else to burst Hit) and try to get a Wounding Weapons (or both weapons with the same effect).
And trade the archery-feats for mounting and mobility feats.

But... with your rolls, that can be hard! Maybe 7/13/12/10/11/15 (that, being elf, would be 7/15/10/10/11/15).

For Prestige Class (if any), maybe Duelist?

Well, there's one little problem with mixing paladin into anything, and that's their multiclassing restriction: you can't continue taking paladin levels if you have taken levels in any other class.

With the elf there's another "small" problem as well. Since Wizard is their favored class, I'd have to take Ranger and Paladin levels within up to 1 level from each other (for example, paladin 2/ranger 1, Paladin 1/Ranger 2, or Paladin 2/Ranger 2 are all fine, but a Paladin 3/Ranger 1 would already incur a -20% experience penalty, which is not an idea I'm particularly fond of), and that's also problematic with the issue above, because if I take even one level of ranger while I've been a paladin previously, I can't turn back. In other words, I'd be stuck with the 20% penalty for the rest of my character's career.

[MishimaRyu]

If you can be a Wood Elf (+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, Favored Class: Ranger), just take paladin first to get what you think would be nice (divine grace, special mount, etc). Then go to ranger.

But if you will start as level 1 char, this will be suicide with STR 7 from the beginning.

[Arkhios]

If you can be a Wood Elf

Nope, I can't. Races from Player's Handbook only.

[MishimaRyu]

Nope, I can't. Races from Player's Handbook only.

In that case, can't maintain the Dex bonus, só Human or Half-elf for Prestige any.

Complicated... =S

[Eldariel]

Frankly, I can't but suggest a "Rangery Cleric or Druid" then. You can tailor both classes to the style of a Ranger, perhaps Druid more easily than Cleric. And they can make do with worse stats thanks to their magic. I definitely suggest that you ditch the TWF, it's just not supported unless you have significant sources of bonus damage. Ranger spells too are quite lackluster for combat in Core so you'd want some better spell list.

Human/Elf Druid with a couple of buff spells, an animal companion and the appropriate proficiencies could perform much the same as the Ranger, but with spells to buff their proficiency. Cleric would do better down the line, but Druid shines on the low levels and gets the animal companion flank stuff going from level 1. And the companion is sturdy, expendable and overall a huge asset. Cleric with Trickery and Travel could pull off a pretty good Ranger impression, and Druid can do it kinda outta the box though with less applicable buffs (most Druid buffs are for the animal companion and themselves while Wildshaped).


Fluff as desired; you can call yourself a Ranger even if your character sheet says "Cleric". Casters just do better with low stats than non-casters.


Paladin just seems like asking for trouble though. You have poor stats and then you bring in a class that requires even more stats. That would give you...precious little.

[Eldariel]

As for stepping on toes, a Cleric or a Druid as a frontline Rangerish character is very different from a caster Cleric so I don't think that's a topic you need to worry about overtly much. The party can have two Clerics, who never so much as cast the same spell and Druid spell list is closer to a mix of arcane/divine, which would give your setup some of the much-needed versatility.

So yeah, with all that new information, I recommend a Druid "Ranger"; wield a Scimitar and a Shield, pick up Longbow proficiency or use Slings - Druids know Magic Stone, so a Sling is not a bad option (Halfling Druid does some nice stuff with Slings but obviously the martial prowess will suffer from the Str penalty so I'd be more inclined to look at Large races like Human, Dwarf or Elf; but with Con this bad and the idea of being a frontliner, Con-penalty from Elf is quite unfortunate as well, so probably just Human or Dwarf). 13 Str, 10 Dex, 12 Con, 11 Int, 15 Wis, 7 Cha. You'll be fine overall and eventually you can wear a Wild Dragonhide Fullplate and just smash; Wildshape can assume some animal form and by the end of it, you can use A Thousand Faces to appear a human while in Dire Ape or some such biped tool-using form. On level 8 you can get Dire Ape Wildshape and the stats that gives you are just plain better than anything you could get from level-ups (level 8 Half-Orc with 15 starting Str would have 19 Str, 21 with a +2 Str item; and a Druid could just Bull's Strength on top of the Wildshape for 26 right out of the blue with 19 Dex too if desired). Then just wield, again, a Scimitar (two-handed or with a shield) and a Longbow or a Sling; you'll do more than fine.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

As others have said, I think you're trying to do too much with too little both in terms of stats and sourcebooks by trying to switch hit TWF and archery. In your situation its probably best to choose either tanking or archery to specialize in. Are your rolled stats set in order or arrange to taste?

Tanking (set order)
Due to playing core you're going to want heavy armor, and unless you're dungeon crawling the vast majority of the time reach. Straight Fighter gets you both better. I'm hesitant to suggest tripping over just harassing with damage as tripping builds tend to assume the highest available strength score.

There is the Horizon Tripper which is generally agreed to be the strongest all around core melee. It dips Barbarian, Ranger and Fighter early so you'll have wilderness skills available if you wanted them for the character personality you had in mind.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-(Core-Melee-Build)

Tanking (no set stat order)
Go straight Druid dump Strength, have you animal companion tank while you heal, buff, and fire a sling.

or
Archery
Whatever combination of Ranger/Fighter strikes your fancy, just forget about doubling up with TWF. Not having a way to mitigate AoO's from using archery in melee in core is painful. Have you Animal companion tank for you. Petition for a houserule of either giving full as Druid of equal level animal companion or switching Druid and Ranger animal companions so Druid is at level -3. Either way spend a fair chunk of gold armoring up your companion. Wolf/riding dog is popular for trip, heavy horse has high base numbers which helps at low levels also you can ride it its presence isn't questioned and you can expect its barding to be readily available which matters in some games, and badger's rage is flavorful and it's an under used animal companion.

Cheers

[bean illus]

On survivability ... yes .. , and no.
Survivability has almost as much to do with roleplay, and play style, as anything.

Due to my play style I have never lost a character (the closest I came is when my low-level Rogue, who was surrounded by 3 goblins, and had been stabbed, fell over to fake dying. The lead Goblin slid his short-sword through my torso to make sure I was dead (i didn't see that coming). I got lucky and took 1d6 damage =1, made a concentration check do not flinch, and survived.

But my record is due mostly to play style, and partly to luck. A play style of tanking with low hit points and not enough damage ...

What parts of ranger do you like? I support building to that, but ditch the twf/ranged combo. I'll echo the cleric advice.

Human ranger 3 / cleric 17: twf, +16 bab, travel and trickery. Get your dm to give you the weapon focus.
A bit of a skill base, track, ditch dex and get twf for free. 2h long sword with gauntlet damage?
Then use all your feats to build a "ranger".

[Eldariel]

On survivability ... yes .. , and no.
Survivability has almost as much to do with roleplay, and play style, as anything.

Due to my play style I have never lost a character (the closest I came is when my low-level Rogue, who was surrounded by 3 goblins, and had been stabbed, fell over to fake dying. The lead Goblin slid his short-sword through my torso to make sure I was dead (i didn't see that coming). I got lucky and took 1d6 damage =1, made a concentration check do not flinch, and survived.

But my record is due mostly to play style, and partly to luck. A play style of tanking with low hit points and not enough damage ...

What parts of ranger do you like? I support building to that, but ditch the twf/ranged combo. I'll echo the cleric advice.

Human ranger 3 / cleric 17: twf, +16 bab, travel and trickery. Get your dm to give you the weapon focus.
A bit of a skill base, track, ditch dex and get twf for free. 2h long sword with gauntlet damage?
Then use all your feats to build a "ranger".

I'd use Ranger 2/Cleric 18 or Ranger 1/Cleric 19. Both are valid; Ranger 2 gets Rapid Shot but only in light armor (the easiest way to get it anyways), while Ranger 1 grants martial weapon proficiencies, a ton of skills, Track, Favored Enemy, etc. I don't really see what Ranger 3 would grant above and beyond that, though. Endurance isn't all that. You'd need Ranger 4 for +16 BAB but with Divine Power as a 4th level spell, that's pretty marginal particularly once you reach 8th level spells and can just quicken it the oldfashioned way. Rather just get the spells to do stuff earlier.

[bean illus]

I'd use Ranger 2/Cleric 18 or Ranger 1/Cleric 19. Both are valid; Ranger 2 gets Rapid Shot but only in light armor.

Of course you're right. Ranger 2 / cleric 18.
But i would still suggest twf.

Thanks

[Eldariel]

Of course you're right. Ranger 2 / cleric 18.
But i would still suggest twf.

Thanks

Rapid Shot is worth more on its own than TWF and TWF isn't really any better than THF anyways, even if you have all the feats; doubly so with all the strength powers of a Cleric and few on-hit bonuses (Divine Favor is the only real one). I definitely think a Greatsword or whatever would come out on top and you don't need to spend your Ranger feat for that; Rapid Shot avoids the need for taking Point Blank Shot in the first place. Indeed, Rapid Shot is all you need to make archery decent while TWF needs all the feats and still isn't much to write home about compared to Power Attack & THF.

[Arkhios]

What I liked about Ranger was that I would be able to get an eagle as companion, with a campaign setting related alternate class feature making my effective druid level equal to Ranger-2 for the initial companion options alone. I intended for the character to emulate an Assassin's Creed protagonist, with a strong connection to an Eagle ally. I didn't exactly mean to have a very impressive bow or anything (at best a +1 or so), just taking the feats to not be useless if I had to use a ranged weapon for some reason.

Assuming I remember right, what I know of the other characters is that the bard will go ranged, rogue player wanted to go a "knife thrower" route, so ranged as well, and the cleric player was interested in going caster over melee, but I think his character had str 16 and greatsword proficiency from war domain. Not entirely sure but I think the cleric's Con was 12 as well.

So in melee department our group is very squishy, but then again, I was noted that we could use a melee focused character but that another arcane spellcaster (preferably a wizard) would also be more than welcome addition for our bard.

Regardless, with stats like these I doubt my character would live very long regardless of its class, so I was exploring other ideas well (edited/added to the OP), the ranger being the most recent one. I know that Psychic Warrior isn't arcane by any means but then again neither is ranger. At this point I had put the arcane casting aside to focus on melee instead.

[Melcar]

Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 7
(we all rolled stats, and I got really bad ones tbh, but I'm determined to make the best of it)

.

I seem to remember that a character should have a minimum of 13 average. You have 9.1. An average commoner is stronger than you. I would ask to re-roll. You are supposed to be a “hero”, you worse than the average population!

[Arkhios]

I seem to remember that a character should have a minimum of 13 average. You have 9.1. An average commoner is stronger than you. I would ask to re-roll. You are supposed to be a “hero”, you worse than the average population!

The rule as I remember it, and as we use it, was:

If the total of your ability modifiers (before race) is +0 or less, or your highest ability score is 13, you get to reroll.

With these parameters considered, I have a total modifier of +2 and my highest score is 15, so nope. No reroll for me.

Honestly, I don't expect this character to last long. I won't go guns blazing and intentionally kill him at a first chance, but I wouldn't mind if that were to happen sooner rather than later (however, I know one encounter in the next campaign that has high chances of offing at least one character. If I grow bored of whatever build I end up using, I could abuse this information and "accidentally" get him killed xD).

However, if you can point me towards any official note regarding your memory of it, please do. I might still ask for a reroll. Not just for myself, but others as well, if they are in the same pickle.

Although I doubt I'd get a reroll. Standard Array (15,14,13,12,10,8) average is 12. Better than mine, sure, but not 13 as you recalled it.

[Vizzerdrix]

I seem to remember that a character should have a minimum of 13 average. You have 9.1. An average commoner is stronger than you. I would ask to re-roll. You are supposed to be a “hero”, you worse than the average population!

Phb says an average of +0 or lower, or highest stat is 13.

Page 8.

[Maat Mons]

As a bit of a rant, ranger's whole "thing" is supposed to be that you get the TWF feats as bonus feats, so you don't need high dexterity, but you're restricted to light armor, so you do need high dexterity. So I feel that ranger actually adds to a TWF build, in spite of the class' design goals.

How about the fighter variant from Unearthed Arcana that gets sneak attack? Just take the TWF feats as regular feats, since you're going to be investing in dexterity anyway. I'm sure you can manage to get gloves of dexterity +2 by 6th level. You'll have TWF, the bonus damage necessary to make TWF viable, full base attack bonus to make sure that damage actually connects, and whatever armor you please.

[Arkhios]

How about the fighter variant from Unearthed Arcana that gets sneak attack?

No Unearthed Arcana for us, as I mentioned in OP.

In other news, is there an official rule or ruling that ranger and druid levels would stack for your effective druid level to track the progress of your companion, or do you track two companions separately if you multiclassed ranger with druid?

[Maat Mons]

No Unearthed Arcana for us, as I mentioned in OP.

In my defense, the words "excluding" and "including" look very similar.

[Arkhios]

In my defense, the words "excluding" and "including" look very similar.

Heh, that they do. No problem. In fact, your suggestion was one I hadn't even thought about before, for any character. Amazing idea, if I ever get the chance to use it!

[Eldariel]

Ah, Bayek of Siwa, eh? Go straight Druid, you'd get the companion straight out of the gate. Ranger 1 would get you the proficiencies and Ranger 2 would make you bow competent though losing out on Druid progression would suck. I actually pondered about your problem a bit. You could go:

Human Druid X
11 Str
13 Dex
12 Con
10 Int
15 Wis
7 Cha


1. MWP: Longbow
B. Point Blank Shot
3. Rapid Shot
6. Natural Spell


Alternatively, you could even go Elf Druid with:
11 Str
15 Dex
10 Con
10 Int
15 Wis
7 Cha

This would qualify you for TWF, which is actually pretty nice with Shillelagh (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shillelagh.htm) early on. Of course, it'd be even nicer if you got some Strength bonuses but c'est la vie. Of course, as a frontliner having 12 Con would be optimal so ultimately I'd rather consider the Human option to carry you through until you get Wildshape et al. You can certainly start with Eagle too, but Eagle starts off really squishy (only 5 HP) so even with Barding, it'll only be able to tank so much.


And yeah, Ranger 1-2/Druid is also doable if a bit retarded. The animal companions are different by default but you should of course be able to combine them if the DM approves. There's no language in the class feature that would equate companion progressions from different classes and certain classes specifically do combine them (Halfling Outrider or Arcane Hierophant IIRC).

EDIT: Turns out I remembered wrong and was thinking about Beastmaster's specific clause about having multiples.

[DEMON]

In other news, is there an official rule or ruling that ranger and druid levels would stack for your effective druid level to track the progress of your companion, or do you track two companions separately if you multiclassed ranger with druid?

PHB, p36.

Also in SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion):


The character’s druid level. The druid’s class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion’s abilities and the alternative lists available to the character.

And while I really love the Ranger class, with all of it's flaws, given the limitations we you're dealing with here, I also echo the sentiment that you should go Druid instead.
Even with stacking of AC levels, there's little reason for you to go Ranger, let alone Ranger 4+ (so there's anything for you to stack with the Druid).

[Arkhios]

PHB, p36.


Also in SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion):


Awesome, thanks! I had a feeling I've seen that mentioned somewhere.


And while I really love the Ranger class, with all of it's flaws, given the limitations we you're dealing with here, I also echo the sentiment that you should go Druid instead.
Even with stacking of AC levels, there's little reason for you to go Ranger, let alone Ranger 4+ (so there's anything for you to stack with the Druid).


Ah, Bayek of Siwa, eh? Go straight Druid, you'd get the companion straight out of the gate. Ranger 1 would get you the proficiencies and Ranger 2 would make you bow competent though losing out on Druid progression would suck. I actually pondered about your problem a bit. You could go:

Human Druid X
11 Str
13 Dex
12 Con
10 Int
15 Wis
7 Cha


1. MWP: Longbow
B. Point Blank Shot
3. Rapid Shot
6. Natural Spell


Alternatively, you could even go Elf Druid with:
11 Str
15 Dex
10 Con
10 Int
15 Wis
7 Cha

This would qualify you for TWF, which is actually pretty nice with Shillelagh (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shillelagh.htm) early on. Of course, it'd be even nicer if you got some Strength bonuses but c'est la vie. Of course, as a frontliner having 12 Con would be optimal so ultimately I'd rather consider the Human option to carry you through until you get Wildshape et al. You can certainly start with Eagle too, but Eagle starts off really squishy (only 5 HP) so even with Barding, it'll only be able to tank so much.


And yeah, Ranger 1-2/Druid is also doable if a bit retarded. The animal companions are different by default but you should of course be able to combine them if the DM approves. There's no language in the class feature that would equate companion progressions from different classes and certain classes specifically do combine them (Halfling Outrider or Arcane Hierophant IIRC).

EDIT: Turns out I remembered wrong and was thinking about Beastmaster's specific clause about having multiples.

Well, sort of. Both Bayek of Siwa and Alexios/Kassandra of Sparta have a deeper connection with an eagle than "Those Who Came After" (Pun intended; I guess the connection to wild animals has diluted over generations as the later generations merely have the eagle sense, while the earlier generations have a direct link and control over an eagle or a lesser bond with another animal companion.)
However, I wouldn't make an exact copy of them, but rather envision my own version based on what they are able to do; just do it my way from ground up.

Druid in particular is somewhat difficult choice for the campaign, though, since it's set in urban environment for the majority of the story.
I'm a bit iffy about having 10 Con on any character, so if there's another option that can have at least 12, I'll prefer that instead.

What comes to Dex 13 and Wis 15, I'm of the opinion, that as a cleric or druid I could manage with only 13 Wis and start with Dex 15. Obviously I would prefer spells that mostly buff me and/or my allies (priority on myself since I wouldn't have that many spells available to be shared anyway). The Eagle wouldn't be a tank, but more of an aerial scout for me, as they are for Bayek and Alexios/Kassandra. Because I wouldn't use the companion for any hostile activity, I could easily let it soar high above "while the adults are talking", and as such, it wouldn't matter much if it had a bit delayed progression due to having more ranger levels than absolutely necessary (if at all).

I would probably squeeze in the Craft Wondrous Items feat and make Gloves of Dexterity/Belt of Giant's Strength/Amulet of Health +4 (or higher) as soon as I'd be able to help out with the lack of constant bonuses on relevant rolls. As a Druid I could easily just cast Barkskin instead of using Amulet of Natural Armor.

[DEMON]

Druid in particular is somewhat difficult choice for the campaign, though, since it's set in urban environment for the majority of the story.

Too bad you can't use the Urban ACFs (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a), those would fit well.

[QUOTE=Arkhios;23702069]I'm a bit iffy about having 10 Con on any character, so if there's another option that can have at least 12, I'll prefer that instead.

What comes to Dex 13 and Wis 15, I'm of the opinion, that as a cleric or druid I could manage with only 13 Wis and start with Dex 15. I'd definitely vote for higher Wis, spellcasting is your strongest feature.

[Elrak]

Would a Prestigious ranger be relevant? (SRD Prestige Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeRanger))

It is still not the most optimal route but shoudl be able to cover all requirement and still keep you relevant at later levels. In case Flaws are allowed (SRD Flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm)) you could use them to leverage out some of the feat requirements.

Also as was mentioned by others I would keep Wis at a 15 if you are considering going druid in any fashion. (i.e. I would go with Eladriel's elf druid suggestion)

[Eldariel]

Well, sort of. Both Bayek of Siwa and Alexios/Kassandra of Sparta have a deeper connection with an eagle than "Those Who Came After" (Pun intended; I guess the connection to wild animals has diluted over generations as the later generations merely have the eagle sense, while the earlier generations have a direct link and control over an eagle or a lesser bond with another animal companion.)
However, I wouldn't make an exact copy of them, but rather envision my own version based on what they are able to do; just do it my way from ground up.

Druid in particular is somewhat difficult choice for the campaign, though, since it's set in urban environment for the majority of the story.
I'm a bit iffy about having 10 Con on any character, so if there's another option that can have at least 12, I'll prefer that instead.

What comes to Dex 13 and Wis 15, I'm of the opinion, that as a cleric or druid I could manage with only 13 Wis and start with Dex 15. Obviously I would prefer spells that mostly buff me and/or my allies (priority on myself since I wouldn't have that many spells available to be shared anyway). The Eagle wouldn't be a tank, but more of an aerial scout for me, as they are for Bayek and Alexios/Kassandra. Because I wouldn't use the companion for any hostile activity, I could easily let it soar high above "while the adults are talking", and as such, it wouldn't matter much if it had a bit delayed progression due to having more ranger levels than absolutely necessary (if at all).

I would probably squeeze in the Craft Wondrous Items feat and make Gloves of Dexterity/Belt of Giant's Strength/Amulet of Health +4 (or higher) as soon as I'd be able to help out with the lack of constant bonuses on relevant rolls. As a Druid I could easily just cast Barkskin instead of using Amulet of Natural Armor.

Well, Druid doesn't really suffer that much in an urban settings. There are still weeds growing here and there for spells like Entangle (or you can just carry pots of plants yourself if you feel inclined to use such spells), and you only need one animal. All your skills are still quite relevant and most of the spells can be made to work.

You could probably do Wis 13, Dex 15 (though you'd miss out on 8th level spells on level 15 unless you got items or something), but it's worth noting that if you plan on using the Ape/Dire Ape Wildshape option (and then Hat of Disguise or whatever to keep your appearance until you get A Thousand Faces), you don't really need physicals for more than 5 levels. To that end, Dex 13 should suffice to carry you through the early levels. There's the option of Dwarf and going middle-aged; 11 Str, 15 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 13 Wis, 7 Cha would land at 10 Str, 14 Dex, 13 Con, 11 Int, 14 Wis, 6 Cha. Not the worst spread for a Druid or in general.

But yeah, all the stat buff spells, Stoneskin, Barkskin, Freedom of Movement, etc. are probably gonna be where you should focus to this end. Quicken Spell and Extend Spell would be nice as well, as well as Scrying, transportation and death spells, walls, and all that. Magic Stone and Shillelagh are nice buffs for the low levels as well. And yeah, craft items; Craft Magic Arms & Armor is also nice, you could get a +1 Wild Full Plate and a +1 Wild Heavy Wooden Shield for massive AC with the Ape switcheroo. Good for weapon use too; 26 Str

The Eagle as a tank on low levels isn't actually that farfetched. Give it a Leather Barding and it has AC 16 and its attacks are far from mediocre. A welcome addition to the frontline. Of course only call it down if necessary, but it ought to help that party a lot early on. And it gets HD and NA as you level so it'll be a tough nut to crack. Level 3 it'll have 3 HD, 19 AC with a Barding, and +6/+6/+1 attacks plus one open feat. It can scout but it can most certainly fight too.

[Arkhios]

Regarding ape and A Thousand Faces, it doesn't work like you suggested. From SRD:

"A Thousand Faces (Su)
At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in her normal form. "

A druid in wild shape is not in their normal form.

Secondly, I'm not keen about using anything listed as applicable forms, such as Ape, because (again, from SRD) "The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with."

A city-dwelling druid who has never seen or even heard of an ape (it's quite possible) is not familiar with the form. Thus, Rules As Written, I couldn't even turn into an ape.

All in all, while a Druid certainly seems like an option, I feel that with their extra restrictions, such as with armor for example and their familiarity with chosen wild shape forms, it wouldn't be as simple as I would like.

A ranger, on the other hand, is gimped by their ridiculous requirement of wearing light or no armor to benefit from their combat style and would indeed require much better stats to be worthwhile.

I think I will discuss with the other cleric's player if he would mind another cleric in the group.

Or, just make the psychic warrior or dwarven "alchemist"/defender, both of which have the potential of wearing the heaviest of armors and having decent amount of hit points throughout.

Edit. Or, maybe, I could make a barbarian like this:

Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 11, Cha 10.

Start with the flavor feat and improved shield bash, use a light melee weapon and Heavy Shield as my weapons, take twf at 3rd level, increase Str to 14 and increase Dex to 18 eventually. Perhaps with a rogue multiclass for a little extra kick for damage, or just remain a pure barbarian and hope I'll get a strength boosting item.

[Eldariel]

Regarding ape and A Thousand Faces, it doesn't work like you suggested. From SRD:

"A Thousand Faces (Su)
At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in her normal form. "

A druid in wild shape is not in their normal form.

Secondly, I'm not keen about using anything listed as applicable forms, such as Ape, because (again, from SRD) "The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with."

A city-dwelling druid who has never seen or even heard of an ape (it's quite possible) is not familiar with the form. Thus, Rules As Written, I couldn't even turn into an ape.

All in all, while a Druid certainly seems like an option, I feel that with their extra restrictions, such as with armor for example and their familiarity with chosen wild shape forms, it wouldn't be as simple as I would like.

A ranger, on the other hand, is gimped by their ridiculous requirement of wearing light or no armor to benefit from their combat style and would indeed require much better stats to be worthwhile.

I think I will discuss with the other cleric's player if he would mind another cleric in the group.

Or, just make the psychic warrior or dwarven "alchemist"/defender, both of which have the potential of wearing the heaviest of armors and having decent amount of hit points throughout.

Edit. Or, maybe, I could make a barbarian like this:

Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 11, Cha 10.

Start with the flavor feat and improved shield bash, use a light melee weapon and Heavy Shield as my weapons, take twf at 3rd level, increase Str to 14 and increase Dex to 18 eventually. Perhaps with a rogue multiclass for a little extra kick for damage, or just remain a pure barbarian and hope I'll get a strength boosting item.

True about a Thousand Faces. Shows you how often I've ended up using it. That said, a city Druid isn't necessarily restricted in animals. Cities often have a circus, a zoo or something of the sort. And just because you live in a city doesn't mean you can't ever travel in the wilderness. However, just reading a book might suffice as well: that's represented by Knowledge (nature), which you can easily get high enough. Check with your DM.

The armor limitation just means you need a Dragonhide version of the normal armor, which is just twice the cost. Then make it Wild and you get all the AC with none of the limitations/proficiency while in Wildshape.

And yeah, a Cleric seems like your best bet otherwise. Even the Barb is going to be rather gimped and it would lack reliable magic item access otherwise. You don't really need the Eagle as a class feature if you just want for it to scout and keep company; you could just buy/tame it and have it around. Animal domain would grant extra options here.

Hell, you could even roll a Druid using Charm Animal, Wild Empathy & al. to bond with the eagle while taking a more combat oriented companion (Riding Dog is solid, both numerically and fitting for a city slicker). Or why not a host of birds? Have them be your eyes. If you're doing your own variant, you could roll with something like your mind being transposeable to any bird you've bonded with. Eventually you'll even get Eagle wildshape. Too bad about the source limitations, Chain of Eyes [Spell Compendium] would be THE perfect spell for this.

[Arkhios]

True about a Thousand Faces. Shows you how often I've ended up using it. That said, a city Druid isn't necessarily restricted in animals. Cities often have a circus, a zoo or something of the sort. And just because you live in a city doesn't mean you can't ever travel in the wilderness. However, just reading a book might suffice as well: that's represented by Knowledge (nature), which you can easily get high enough. Check with your DM.

The armor limitation just means you need a Dragonhide version of the normal armor, which is just twice the cost. Then make it Wild and you get all the AC with none of the limitations/proficiency while in Wildshape.

And yeah, a Cleric seems like your best bet otherwise. Even the Barb is going to be rather gimped and it would lack reliable magic item access otherwise. You don't really need the Eagle as a class feature if you just want for it to scout and keep company; you could just buy/tame it and have it around. Animal domain would grant extra options here.

Hell, you could even roll a Druid using Charm Animal, Wild Empathy & al. to bond with the eagle while taking a more combat oriented companion (Riding Dog is solid, both numerically and fitting for a city slicker). Or why not a host of birds? Have them be your eyes. If you're doing your own variant, you could roll with something like your mind being transposeable to any bird you've bonded with. Eventually you'll even get Eagle wildshape. Too bad about the source limitations, Chain of Eyes [Spell Compendium] would be THE perfect spell for this.

I appreciate that you want to help the druid work for me, I really do, but I'm not really "feeling it" as the best option all things considered. Dragonhide is exceedingly rare as it doesn't grow in trees as the saying goes. It's unlikely to find enough dragonhide from a merchant (a heavy armor for a medium sized creature would require at least a huge dragon, and those are rather old and powerful ones), and as written a full-plate must always be made to your measurements, so merely buying one that has been made before isn't going to help much. It would still have to be refitted for you, which costs time and money as well.

About the potential of going 4 levels into Ranger and then multiclassing into druid for better spells and faster progression of your animal companion, the campaign provides a possibility of bonding with a Hippogriff (it's the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting; when Pathfinder was written with 3.5 rules in mind), but it requires a feat which has a prerequisite of at least a 4th level ranger. The character would be a Shoanti tribesman (basically equivalent of native american people) who are derogatorily called "horsers" because of their affinity with horses) of a clan whose totem animal is the eagle. Hippogriff would be interesting choice because it's an amalgam of a horse and an eagle (or some other bird) :D

But again, ranger restrictions seem too much to overcome so I'm inclined to pass on this.

The Campaign Setting for Pathfinder Chronicles has an alternative class feature for clerics as well: lose your access to domains and domain spells, but gain a d10 hit die, base attack bonus equal to your class level, and free proficiency for your deitys favored weapon. The other cleric follows either Iomedae (basically female version of Heironeous from Greyhawk) or Gorum (basically Kord equivalent, but more indifferent with morality). The other cleric is likely going to take the domains, so perhaps I should forget the TWF altogether, and follow the same deity (to avoid any philosophical collisions) but instead choose the "Holy Warrior" alternative for the class.

To overcome the lower Wisdom score, I could pick a few metamagic feats, like Empower: even though it would use a spell slot higher than normal, it would still be a spell of its normal level (Only Heighten Metamagic feat changes the spell's actual level), and merely having low ability score doesn't deprive me of the minimum spell slots for higher levels. I would still get the spell slots, I just couldn't prepare or cast spells specifically from those levels).

With the lack of a high wisdom, Extend Metamagic seems like a great feat as well, as it would let my buff spells last longer and thus I wouldn't have to cast the same spells again so often.
The chosen spells would, of course, be those that cure hit points (empowered, obviously), boost ability scores, give me additional AC, hit points, and even increase my size category if needed (extended, obviously).

Scratch that. I brought the idea to the attention of the other cleric's player and he went almost ballistic about my idea of stepping into his turf by making another cleric. EVEN if it was a Cleric of another deity and completely different thanks to the ACF from Campaign Setting. There goes the idea then. He almost demanded that I'd make a Fighter/wizard, but I mentioned to him that the build with these stats would be seriously gimped in both melee damage and hit points departments and would likely die from the first critical hit. I get that he doesn't want to change his mind and make a wizard or sorcerer himself because in our current campaign he's already got one.

If our DM would let me, if only this one time, make a Battle Sorcerer, then I would reconsider making the Eldritch Knight. At least it would be a bit more resilient than a wizard.


Would a Prestigious ranger be relevant? (SRD Prestige Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeRanger))

No, because Prestigious Bard, Paladin, and Ranger are from Unearthed Arcana.

[Elrak]

No, because Prestigious Bard, Paladin, and Ranger are from Unearthed Arcana.

Fair enough, I just assumed that that woudl be acceptable as it isin the SRD just like the Psychic warrior albeit both are not really "Core" (i.e. UA and XPH)

[Eldariel]

Well, Druid would be pretty solid in that sense too that Druid magic is a tad closer to arcane than divine magic (lots of control spells and utility). Druid would cover both, the beatstick and the arcanist roles pretty well. Admittedly not as well as a Wizard, but a Fighter/Wizard would probably get pasted here. They're even more stat dependant up until Polymorph. Druid at least gets Wildshape; even if Ape isn't in the cards, there's any number of forms to use but of course, if you go that route you can't utilise your character concept that well. Apes are nice in that they're weapon wielders.

With these restrictions you're at quite the conundrum. Perhaps make a Holy Warrior Cleric anyways and just tell your other Cleric you're a Paladin? :smallwink: Cast spells in secret passing paper to your DM, "Smite" with Divine Favor or Inflict and so on.

[Arkhios]

Fair enough, I just assumed that that woudl be acceptable as it isin the SRD just like the Psychic warrior albeit both are not really "Core" (i.e. UA and XPH)

Fair enough. What I meant by "core" is everything that falls under the OGL (Open Game License), and that's everything listed in the SRD, and then continued to note specifically that Unearthed Arcana content is excluded from the SRD as an available resource for our use. Granted, I could've been more clear about it, now that I think it through.


Well, Druid would be pretty solid in that sense too that Druid magic is a tad closer to arcane than divine magic (lots of control spells and utility). Druid would cover both, the beatstick and the arcanist roles pretty well. Admittedly not as well as a Wizard, but a Fighter/Wizard would probably get pasted here. They're even more stat dependant up until Polymorph. Druid at least gets Wildshape; even if Ape isn't in the cards, there's any number of forms to use but of course, if you go that route you can't utilise your character concept that well. Apes are nice in that they're weapon wielders.

With these restrictions you're at quite the conundrum. Perhaps make a Holy Warrior Cleric anyways and just tell your other Cleric you're a Paladin? :smallwink: Cast spells in secret passing paper to your DM, "Smite" with Divine Favor or Inflict and so on.

Nah, I'd rather not deliberately try to upset my fellow players. However, I agree with my DM that what we need more than an arcane blaster is a tank. We already have a cleric and a bard. I'm going to respect the cleric player's wishes and not make another cleric, but I'm going to tell him to suck it up: If I had better stats I might make the eldritch knight, but with stats as poor as these. Not going to happen.

Plus, I just realized I could reiterate one of my favorite Pathfinder Society characters and make a halfling barbarian with a small-sized Earth Breaker. (1d10 is pretty amazing already!)

Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 7*, Cha 11.


*Yes, I did that on purpose! Halflings get a +1 bonus to all saves, so Wis 7 actually accumulates only Will -1 for a while. Plus, the original character started with his stats being something like these: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 10. Int 12 was a mistake I learned later, as I had too many skill points to spend anywhere useful at the end (I know, it's ridiculous!). I know that I could've had Str 16 at best, but honestly, with a small sized creature's +1 bonus to hit and AC, it was not a huge loss. Rage covers that up anyway in the end. His higher than usual Dexterity helped him survive to this day (Currently he is a Venture Captain at 13th level; for real!)

I would eventually increase Wis to 8 and Cha to 12, and take 6 levels in rogue for a few key skills that made the original character so incredibly fun to play: Use Magic Device, Hide, Move Silently, Climb, Jump, and Tumble! With 3.5 I might need that one more point in intelligence, but as luck would have it, pathfinder fixed the bit that you would retroactively gain any skill points if your intelligence increased. In 3.5 you don't. And I have higher priorities first. So, I might as well not try to increase it. Cha and Wis will benefit me fully eventually, no matter at which level I increase them.




BBN1: Totem Spirit (Tamiir-Quah:+5 to base land speed, +2 to Jump checks), Fast Movement (+10 to base land speed), Rage 1/day
BBN2: Uncanny Dodge
BBN3: Weapon Focus (Earth Breaker), Trap Sense +1
BBN4: Rage 2/day, Str 14 (yay!)
BBN5: Improved Uncanny Dodge
BBN6: Power Attack, Trap Sense +2
ROG1: Sneak Attack (1d6), Trapfinding
ROG2: Evasion, Dex 16 (yay!)
ROG3: Skill Focus: Use Magic Device, Sneak Attack (2d6), Trap Sense +3
ROG4: Uncanny Dodge: levels stack!
ROG5: Sneak Attack (3d6)
ROG6: Cleave, Trap Sense +4, Cha 12
BBN7: Damage Reduction 1/-
BBN8: Rage 3/day
BBN9: Great Cleave, Trap Sense +5
BBN10: Damage Reduction 2/-, Wis 8

So, basically, if I wore light armor, I'd boast a whopping 35 ft. base land speed! That's one quick halfling!
Alternatively, I could just wear medium armor, and still I'd be at 30 ft. base speed, because medium armor reduces my speed from 20 to 15, but fast movement increases it by 10 ft. and Tamiir-Quah an extra 5! xD, so still a very quick halfling!

[Eldariel]

Well, that certainly sounds more workable. Small size and the stats do help out a lot and Barbarian is a fundamentally robust base class anyways. It's not perfect but nothing is gonna be and aside from Druid or Cleric, there's hardly a way to hit both your weak points at once (Summoner Wizard or Sorcerer could actually do just that, though I don't think you've got Acadamae Graduate or Rapid Summoning...)