Need help with a good Walker in the Waste build

[Ozzie831]

Hey everyone, thanks for stopping by. I just got done watching the anime show Overlord and its got me on a bit of a Lich kick.


So I just recently came across the Walker in the Waste PrC and I was instantly interested. Ive already known about the Dread Necromancer for a while now but being able to become a lich waaaaaaaay sooner is a win in my eyes. The only downside is not having CHA as the main stat but you cant always have your cake and eat it too.

Ive done a little research on the subject and this PrC seems to be a pretty hot topic when it comes to the wording of the rules and how they are interpreted. However my DM is pretty lenient when it comes to that sort of thing and as long as it makes a cool character, he doesnt usually care. So there is no reason the bring up the +5 LA nor the debate about how the 3 divine spells having to come from the same sand or thirst domains.

What I am after is the fastest way into the WitW and what to do after becoming a lich. I read a post from a guy who came up with a way to enter WitW as soon as level 2 which would make him a lich by level 12, however that was using some pretty stretched rules and I dont need to be pushing my luck with my DM any further than I already have.


Our game just hit level 9. So any help would be awesome. Also feel free to ask questions and I shall try and answer them to the best of my ability.

This post is primarily about the WitW PrC but if you guys have any other suggestions about a lich/undead like class that isnt just slapping on a template, that would also be appreciated.

THANKS!

[Rebel7284]

Cloistered Cleric 3/Walker in the Wastes 10 is a pretty solid built that does cleric things well. Charisma is certainly an important secondary stat if you do Divine Metamagic.

You can always do something with Ur-Priest, but while it can turbo-charge your casting at mid-levels, it ultimately delays litchdom by at least a level or two. Something like (Ex)Cleric 3/WitW 2/Ur-Priest 2/WitW+8

A curious but very broken way to do this would be. Savage Bard 1/Were-Fleshraker 4/Ur Priest 2/WitW 10. You have the spells to cure your lycanthropy once Ur Priest self qualifies.

[Maat Mons]

what to do after becoming a lich.

The only ones that jump out at me are contemplative, runecaster, and shadowcrafter. Maybe divine oracle and thaumaturgist.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

If Flaws are allowed, you can do something like:
Level 1 feat: Heat Endurance
Human bonus feat: Magical Training (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Magical_Training)
Flaw 1: Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate)
And then at level 2 take your first level of Walker in the Wastes.

RAW, nothing stops you from using Precocious Apprentice to cast a divine spell. If your GM objects but allows Flaws, simply take another flaw for Alternative Spell Source (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Alternative_Source_Spell) and cast Dessicate as a Divine spell.

Here's an even better method (if it works; this depends on an SLA being arcane and giving you an arcane caster level)
Level 1 feat: Heat Endurance
Silverbrow Human bonus feat: Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate) - you qualify here if you took Silverbrow Human and your Feather Fall SLA counts as having an arcane caster level.
And then at level 2 take your first level of Walker in the Wastes.

Again, I am absolutely not certain if the second method is legal. But I'm not sure that it isn't, either. I would check the SLA rules but I don't have my books on hand right now.

[Ozzie831]

Thanks everyone for the responses. But Yes flaws are allowed. So thank you for the suggestions.



If Flaws are allowed, you can do something like:
Level 1 feat: Heat Endurance
Human bonus feat: Magical Training (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Magical_Training)
Flaw 1: Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate)
And then at level 2 take your first level of Walker in the Wastes.

RAW, nothing stops you from using Precocious Apprentice to cast a divine spell. If your GM objects but allows Flaws, simply take another flaw for Alternative Spell Source (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Alternative_Source_Spell) and cast Dessicate as a Divine spell.

Here's an even better method (if it works; this depends on an SLA being arcane and giving you an arcane caster level)
Level 1 feat: Heat Endurance
Silverbrow Human bonus feat: Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate) - you qualify here if you took Silverbrow Human and your Feather Fall SLA counts as having an arcane caster level.
And then at level 2 take your first level of Walker in the Wastes.

Again, I am absolutely not certain if the second method is legal. But I'm not sure that it isn't, either. I would check the SLA rules but I don't have my books on hand right now.


Im really liking Talons ideas. Especially the Silverbrow Human option. If it was me, Id allow it. You are a descendant of a silver dragon, so having some innate arcane spell ability shouldnt be all that crazy. I can diplomatize that with my DM. Especially since Im actually not actually gaining anything extra.


So the build so far will be will be Silverbrow Human with Level 1: Heat Endurance, Human: Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate), and 2 flaws.+

Which class would you guys recommend for level 1. Ive seen Cleric and Archivist so far. I know there are a couple divine classes out there but I dont know jack about magic in this game.

[Troacctid]

If Flaws are allowed, you can do something like:
Level 1 feat: Heat Endurance
Human bonus feat: Magical Training (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Magical_Training)
Flaw 1: Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate)
And then at level 2 take your first level of Walker in the Wastes.

RAW, nothing stops you from using Precocious Apprentice to cast a divine spell. If your GM objects but allows Flaws, simply take another flaw for Alternative Spell Source (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Alternative_Source_Spell) and cast Dessicate as a Divine spell.

Here's an even better method (if it works; this depends on an SLA being arcane and giving you an arcane caster level)
Level 1 feat: Heat Endurance
Silverbrow Human bonus feat: Precocious Apprentice (Dessicate) - you qualify here if you took Silverbrow Human and your Feather Fall SLA counts as having an arcane caster level.
And then at level 2 take your first level of Walker in the Wastes.

Again, I am absolutely not certain if the second method is legal. But I'm not sure that it isn't, either. I would check the SLA rules but I don't have my books on hand right now.
Neither method works. You don't have the arcane caster level to qualify for Precocious Apprentice, you don't have arcane spells to qualify for Alternative Source Spell, and spell-like abilities are not considered arcane or divine.

[Falontani]

Shai'ir 3/geomancer 4/witw 10 loses no spellcasting, and is fairly straight forward.
Shai'ir 3/witw 10 with southern magician and arcane disciple is a little off but works (This way works with wizards and death masters as well)
Shai'ir 1/witw with: alternate spell source, arcane disciple, arcane disciple can work.

Personal opinion:
Human Death Master 5/witw 10/Death Master 15
1) Heat Endurance
3) Southern Magician
6) Craft Wondrous Items
9) doesn't matter
12) doesn't matter
15) human heritage
..
So at level 12 you undergo the ritual to become a traditional lich. Your type changes to undead, you get the phylactery, the whole shibang
At level 15 you take human heritage, this changes your type into humanoid again, thus allowing you to qualify for the Dry Lich template, that you just so happen to get immediately.
In epic levels you begin crafting the soul stones you need in order to transcend your lichdom into a demilich, but on the way you hit level 20 death master, which specifies that you become a lich, even if you are already undead. So you are now a human lich/dry lich/lich who is eligible to become a demilich. You have 5 canopic jars, 2 phylacteries, and 5 soul gems.
From champions of ruin there is an epic spell which quintuples the amount of phylacteries you have. Depending on the reading you either now have 5 jars, 10 phylacteries, and 5 soul gems, or you now have 25 jars, 10 phylacteries, and 25 soul gems. Good luck to the poor paladin who receives his divine quest to permanently destroy you. Create a few fakes using magic aura and pao, and your good to go!

[Troacctid]

Shai'ir 1/witw with: alternate spell source, arcane disciple, arcane disciple can work.
How? That only gives you two out of the three required spells. Also, not sure what the second Arcane Disciple is for, exactly.


Personal opinion:
Human Death Master 5/witw 10/Death Master 15
1) Heat Endurance
3) Southern Magician
6) Craft Wondrous Items
9) doesn't matter
12) doesn't matter
15) human heritage
..
So at level 12 you undergo the ritual to become a traditional lich. Your type changes to undead, you get the phylactery, the whole shibang
At level 15 you take human heritage, this changes your type into humanoid again, thus allowing you to qualify for the Dry Lich template, that you just so happen to get immediately.
In epic levels you begin crafting the soul stones you need in order to transcend your lichdom into a demilich, but on the way you hit level 20 death master, which specifies that you become a lich, even if you are already undead. So you are now a human lich/dry lich/lich who is eligible to become a demilich. You have 5 canopic jars, 2 phylacteries, and 5 soul gems.
From champions of ruin there is an epic spell which quintuples the amount of phylacteries you have. Depending on the reading you either now have 5 jars, 10 phylacteries, and 5 soul gems, or you now have 25 jars, 10 phylacteries, and 25 soul gems. Good luck to the poor paladin who receives his divine quest to permanently destroy you. Create a few fakes using magic aura and pao, and your good to go!
AFAICT this build doesn't have any of the required spells to get into Walker.

[Falontani]

How? That only gives you two out of the three required spells. Also, not sure what the second Arcane Disciple is for, exactly.
You are correct, I was mistaken here.


AFAICT this build doesn't have any of the required spells to get into Walker.
And I did forget to mention the arcane disciple feats

[Troacctid]

And I did forget to mention the arcane disciple feats
Who exactly is your patron deity that grants both Sand and Thirst as domains? And how are you taking a 1st level only feat at 15th level?

[Falontani]

Who exactly is your patron deity that grants both Sand and Thirst as domains? And how are you taking a 1st level only feat at 15th level?

There are no official deities that grant both, I do use your spreadsheet quite extensively when I am using a character who worships.
Your posting that did remind me that the deity I was thinking of was granted more domains due to them not having existed yet making a good amount of sense. I apologize, however the last one linked does only need one arcane disciple. The shai'ir 1 build linked earlier was me being stupid and thinking, that since wizard has 1 of the spells on the list already, taking arcane disciple twice gave me the other two necessary. The shai'ir could use precocious apprentice + arcane disciple + alternate spell source to qualify at level 1 however.
Thank you Troacctid for catching my mistakes!

[Ozzie831]

The shai'ir could use precocious apprentice + arcane disciple + alternate spell source to qualify at level 1 however.

Okie dokie. Since the previous suggestions were shut down, the quote above seems to be the one that hasnt been refuted yet. So I guess that is the one to go for.

So back to the drawing board:
Human Sha'ir Level 1
Human feat: Precocious Apprentice (Desiccate)
1st Level Feat: Arcane Disciple (Using the Thirst and Sand domains. Even thought there isnt a deity that uses both. My DM isnt that picky)
Flaw 1: Alternative Source Spell
Flaw 2: Heat Endurance

So the next part of the build, Levels 2-12, would be the full 10 WitW levels. Im not really sure what feats to go for but there were a couple in Libris Mortis that looked cool after becoming a lich. They may not be all that useful but they sounded cool. Like the Turn resist feats; there are 2 Clerics my party so I kinda dont want to be be "turned" after becoming a Dry Lich. There were only 2 feats that I noticed that could help in that situation: Lifebond, bind it to you Gen since he is going to be around most of the time anyway, unless he is grabbing spells, and Improved Turn Resistance. You get +6 turn resist when becoming a dry lich but I dont know the turn ceiling of a cleric so the 2 feats might just be overkill.

But now Im not sure what classes to go for after WitW. Levels 13-20, Im guessing just more Spell caster classes since it seems to be the most logical choice. But again that is why Im here, to ask your guys' opinions.

Thanks again for all the help so far.

[Maat Mons]

Arcane Disciple (Using the Thirst and Sand domains. Even thought there isnt a deity that uses both. My DM isnt that picky)

Why would you need the Thirst domain? Its 1st- and 2nd-level spells are both on the Sha'ir list.

[Troacctid]

Okie dokie. Since the previous suggestions were shut down, the quote above seems to be the one that hasnt been refuted yet. So I guess that is the one to go for.
Sha'irs can't use Alternative Source Spell because it only works on prepared spells. Sha'irs don't prepare spells.

[remetagross]

Hmmm and how about a Human Cleric that follows the ideals of Sand and Thirst, and then picks Heat Endurance as a Human bonus feat and Versatile Spellcaster as his reguliar 1st level feat? Versatile Spellcaster only asks for the ability to spontaneously cast spells, not specifically arcane ones, and Clerics qualify by dint of being able to spontaneously cast Cure spells. And since Clerics know all the spells on their spell list, they actually know 2nd level spells even when they're at level 1, meaning Versatile Spellcaster does allow them to cast the 2nd level spells of the Thirst and Sand domain.

Another advantage: no flaw needed here.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Hmmm and how about a Human Cleric that follows the ideals of Sand and Thirst, and then picks Heat Endurance as a Human bonus feat and Versatile Spellcaster as his reguliar 1st level feat? Versatile Spellcaster only asks for the ability to spontaneously cast spells, not specifically arcane ones, and Clerics qualify by dint of being able to spontaneously cast Cure spells. And since Clerics know all the spells on their spell list, they actually know 2nd level spells even when they're at level 1, meaning Versatile Spellcaster does allow them to cast the 2nd level spells of the Thirst and Sand domain.

Another advantage: no flaw needed here.
Having a Domain doesn't add its spells to your spells known, so Versatile Spellcaster won't work :(


Neither method works. You don't have the arcane caster level to qualify for Precocious Apprentice, you don't have arcane spells to qualify for Alternative Source Spell, and spell-like abilities are not considered arcane or divine.
Wait, seriously? Doesn't Magical Training give you Arcane Caster Level of 1? So you're casting spells without having a caster level? Weird.

Googling it returns results like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?186052-3-5-Arcane-caster-level-without-an-arcane-class) that suggest that SLAs should work though. Are they wrong?

[remetagross]

Having a Domain doesn't add its spells to your spells known, so Versatile Spellcaster won't work :(


But Dessicate, the 2nd level spell of the Thirst domain, is also a regular Cleric spell, so it works :)

[Albions_Angel]

I once made a Dry Lich (CCleric 3/WitW 10) as a BBEG who reformed in a snow region when one of his jars was shipped there. Had a lot of fun granting him levels of Winterhaunt of Iborighu.

Now, I was DMing, so I played a little fast and loose. But in theory, what you want from WoI is level 7, cold subtype. Because, you know, you are immune to cold.

So, if you were in it for epic level or level 20 play, then you could do something like...

CCleric 3/WitW 9 (or 10, if you simply delay the ritual to become a lich)/WoI 7/WitW +1 (or the lich ritual).

Its a fun mix of fire and ice. Especially if you can get fire immunity from race or spells or items. And depending on your dm, you can have real fun with your cold/hot auras, hot swapping them. Someone casts fog cloud to hurt your lich-ness? That fog cloud is now a pile of ice crystals on the floor. Its very fun.

[lord_khaine]

So at level 12 you undergo the ritual to become a traditional lich. Your type changes to undead, you get the phylactery, the whole shibang
At level 15 you take human heritage, this changes your type into humanoid again, thus allowing you to qualify for the Dry Lich template, that you just so happen to get immediately.
In epic levels you begin crafting the soul stones you need in order to transcend your lichdom into a demilich, but on the way you hit level 20 death master, which specifies that you become a lich, even if you are already undead. So you are now a human lich/dry lich/lich who is eligible to become a demilich. You have 5 canopic jars, 2 phylacteries, and 5 soul gems.
From champions of ruin there is an epic spell which quintuples the amount of phylacteries you have. Depending on the reading you either now have 5 jars, 10 phylacteries, and 5 soul gems, or you now have 25 jars, 10 phylacteries, and 25 soul gems. Good luck to the poor paladin who receives his divine quest to permanently destroy you. Create a few fakes using magic aura and pao, and your good to go!

The solution of course, is having a Hunter of the Dead cohort :smalltongue:
Bam! jars, phylacteries and soul gems bypassed. Honestly the only way to solve this in a meaningful way.