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ISAS
2019-02-11, 08:44 PM
Okay so I'm currently playing a level 4 CN Tielfing Warlock with the Great Old One Patron and & Pact of the Tome and I'm unsure whether I should continue on in Warlock or if I should use the 5th level I've just advanced to, to multiclass across into the Bard class. I was thinking of multiclassing to the Lore Bard because of the backstory and original build idea behind my warlock.

He became a Warlock purely by accident when he briefly observed a Great Old One (Something straight out of the Cthulhu Mythos) and formed a connection to it, unbeknownst to the GOO in question.

Since then, he's been plagued by dream's he can't understand, and an unquenchable thirst to seek out knowledge, uncover secrets and further his understanding of things. Because of this link he has with the GOO, he is not altogether sane and has the odd but short bout of insanity.

He's pretty much a self-serving, manipulative individual who’s always looking for ways to further his own ends in the acquirement of information and knowledge, even if that means working with those he deems his inferiors (Pretty much the whole party, but he's subtly manipulated several of them to his benefit despite them being well aware he dislikes them)

Now, my Warlock isn't really much for fighting, and frankly with our party composition he doesn’t need to be as we have a Barbarian, a Monk and Fighter type who can fight on the front lines, and an aspiring Sorcerer who can stand back and blast away at things, with myself sending out the odd EB or spells such as Command (Telling a heavily armored, high AC enemy to strip is really helpful even if your party accuses you of being a pervert) to try and sow some discord and such into the enemy ranks.

I also tend to act as the scout via Invisibility to try and get an idea of what threats lurk ahead, though it’s still nerve wracking when your DM asks you to roll Stealth when you've back a pack of monsters around you.

So I'm thinking of progressing into the Bard class in order to stay true to the characters driving interests, the procurement of knowledge, magic lore etc. etc. as well as have more in the way of skills and useful spells with which to keep myself, and perhaps the party, alive and suitably informed about things we come across.

But I'm not entirely sure if it's advisable to multiclass to Bard, or if I should multiclass into more than one thing, or how far I should progress each classes level, so I'd appreciate some advice.

My DM is pretty flexible with things and has agreed I can alter my character's spells and stuff, assuming I haven't used those particular ones yet (So that’s most of them then) I also know it's going to be a rather long campaign (So I'm planning for level 20 considering I know my DM has ran campaigns lasting 2 years before) and will feature other-planar beings, especially demons to a possibly large degree, as well as a powerful spell caster whose the ultimate BBEG of the campaign.

A little more background on how I envisioned my character, though it might already be obvious that what magic’s he does use tend to those focused at influencing the mind and controlling peoples actions, I want to make him more of the party’s Face, but not exactly a happy, smiley, looking to please you sort of Face. When it’s come to bargaining and stuff with merchants, Intimidation and actual use of his powers has been his go to response so far, but he can evolve and grow to be more deceptive.

Any help/advice on this would be welcome.

Teaguethebean
2019-02-11, 09:02 PM
I didn't read to much of what you posted but definitely take a fifth warlock level getting 3rd level spells every short rest is great and then I can see multiclassing lore bard could work nicely Mechanically and thematically

Keravath
2019-02-11, 09:23 PM
Bard and warlock have a lot of synergy. I have a level 11 character that is 9 lore bard/2 hexblade warlock that works pretty well.

However, at this point I would be tempted to take at least the 5th of warlock before switching over to bard. Fifth level of warlock will give you access to 3rd level spells. It will give you another invocation and since you are Pact of the Tome, I would guess that you already have the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation. At 5th level you will be able to copy 3rd level rituals which will include Leomund's Tiny Hut which can be a lifesaver and at the very least makes taking long rests much more comfortable.

The biggest issue with multiclassing at this point (which may not be a big deal given how you have described your character) is that you won't have access to 4th level spells until your character reaches 12th level (7 levels in bard). You will also only have two ASIs by that point as well ... so your character will be a bit slow to progress in both stats and spells. On the other hand, if you put both your ASI into charisma (and assuming you started with a 16) you should be ok.

CTurbo
2019-02-11, 09:44 PM
I agree with these guys. Go Warlock 5 then Bard, but I think Whispers would be a really fun alternative to Lore.

PastorofMuppets
2019-02-11, 10:00 PM
Definitely go bard. Use your telepathy to sing songs of madness directly into the minds of nearby people.

CTurbo
2019-02-11, 10:03 PM
Definitely go bard. Use your telepathy to sing songs of madness directly into the minds of nearby people.


I REALLY want to make this character to use Vicious Mockery on people via telepathy, but everybody says you can't do it :(

djreynolds
2019-02-12, 02:39 AM
Not optimal, but wizard could be interesting.

ISAS
2019-02-12, 06:07 AM
I didn't read to much of what you posted but definitely take a fifth warlock level getting 3rd level spells every short rest is great and then I can see multiclassing lore bard could work nicely Mechanically and thematically

Thanks, that's good to know, I hadn't really considered that aspect, I'm still pretty new to 5e and getting used to the mechanics.


Bard and warlock have a lot of synergy. I have a level 11 character that is 9 lore bard/2 hexblade warlock that works pretty well.

However, at this point I would be tempted to take at least the 5th of warlock before switching over to bard. Fifth level of warlock will give you access to 3rd level spells. It will give you another invocation and since you are Pact of the Tome, I would guess that you already have the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation. At 5th level you will be able to copy 3rd level rituals which will include Leomund's Tiny Hut which can be a lifesaver and at the very least makes taking long rests much more comfortable.

The biggest issue with multiclassing at this point (which may not be a big deal given how you have described your character) is that you won't have access to 4th level spells until your character reaches 12th level (7 levels in bard). You will also only have two ASIs by that point as well ... so your character will be a bit slow to progress in both stats and spells. On the other hand, if you put both your ASI into charisma (and assuming you started with a 16) you should be ok.

Yeah, I do have the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation, I figured when I was planning the warlock that having the ability to gain a few extra utility cantrips would be useful/interesting from a cosmetic/RP standpoint since the DM allows characters with cantrips to use them constantly outside of battle, so using Prestidigitation and Mage Hand so frequently and without remorse enables my Warlock to have a lot of fun and be thematically quite accurate.

Having ritual access does seem like a good idea too, I'd considered it originally when I wanted to get Find Familiar for a thematic pet but had pushed it to the background somewhat since then.

And I did start with 16 points in Cha from Point Buy plus the 2 Cha from being a Tielfing and then 2 from my leveling so I'm already sitting on 20, I figured it was the highest priority stat for me and my class/party position.


I REALLY want to make this character to use Vicious Mockery on people via telepathy, but everybody says you can't do it :(

Yeah, I had that thought with that spell but my DM, while flexible, wouldn't let me use two actions to terrorize people mentally.

PeteNutButter
2019-02-12, 08:56 AM
I REALLY want to make this character to use Vicious Mockery on people via telepathy, but everybody says you can't do it :(

Dip sorcerer afterwards and grab subtle spell. Pretty sure that's exactly how a subtle Vicious Mockery would work: Telepathic insults. ...although probably best used on something better than a cantrip.

sophontteks
2019-02-12, 09:27 AM
Dip sorcerer afterwards and grab subtle spell. Pretty sure that's exactly how a subtle Vicious Mockery would work: Telepathic insults. ...although probably best used on something better than a cantrip.
JC specified that verbal components are seperate from verbal requirements within the description of the spell, so you'd still have to unleash a string of insults. That said I don't see where it requires you to say the string of insults, only that it can hear you.

PeteNutButter
2019-02-12, 03:17 PM
JC specified that verbal components are seperate from verbal requirements within the description of the spell, so you'd still have to unleash a string of insults. That said I don't see where it requires you to say the string of insults, only that it can hear you.

So, is the target of telepathy hearing you? :smallconfused:

At any rate, I can't imagine a DM not letting a player do that if they jumped through multiple multiclass hoops just to toss a cantrip in someone's head.

Benny89
2019-02-12, 04:22 PM
In short:

Support/Healer/CC mix: Go with Bard, enjoy various of ways to support party, be party face, cast some nasty CC spells. Lots of things to do on Bard.

Damage Caster/Healer: Go for Divine Soul Sorcere and be a mix of strong healing/support with devastating damage spells.

Melee NOVA monster: Go for Paladin (Vengeance or Devotion) and Smite enemies to dust.

You can go for a lot of different multiclass builds, Warlocks are very versitile.

Also if you will go pure Warlock- that will also be great, Warlocks are fine as long as your party takes short rests.