Tier 0

[Bartmanhomer]

Tier 0 is a class that's overpowered and unplayable by all means. Only deities and overdeities fall to this category:

Demigods
Lesser Deities
Intermediate Deities
Greater Deities
Overdeities (Ao, Lady Of Pain and Pun-Pun)

[JoshuaZ]

Tier 0 is a class that's overpowered and unplayable by all means. Only deities and overdeities fall to this category:

Demigods
Lesser Deities
Intermediate Deities
Greater Deities
Overdeities (Ao, Lady Of Pain and Pun-Pun)

I'm sorry, is there a point at bringing this up? Are you proposing that this is a useful classification? If so, why is it useful? No one generally tries to play as any of these (except maybe demigods in some very high epic campaigns). Also how does this interact with the tier system itself? These aren't classes which is what the Tier system classifies. Pun-Pun for example in an optimized build.

There is also a tier system for prestige classes (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1573.0) which roughly speaking tells one how many tiers up or down a prestige class modifies a given class by (although confusingly +k means moves from tier n to tier n-k). Based on that, I think most people would see something like a wizard going into a +2 prc as closer to what most people would have in mind when they think of tier 0 (although if one was nitpicky this level might be termed more accurately tier -1).

Can you expand more on what you have in mind and how this interacts with prior thoughts about the tier system both for base classes and prestige classes?

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm sorry, is there a point at bringing this up? Are you proposing that this is a useful classification? If so, why is it useful? No one generally tries to play as any of these (except maybe demigods in some very high epic campaigns). Also, how does this interact with the tier system itself? These aren't classes which is what the Tier system classifies. Pun-Pun for example in an optimized build.

There is also a tier system for prestige classes (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1573.0) which roughly speaking tells one how many tiers up or down a prestige class modifies a given class by (although confusingly +k means moves from tier n to tier n-k). Based on that, I think most people would see something like a wizard going into a +2 PRC as closer to what most people would have in mind when they think of tier 0 (although if one was nitpicky this level might be termed more accurately tier -1).

Can you expand more on what you have in mind and how this interacts with prior thoughts about the tier system both for base classes and prestige classes?
Well, I'm glad you bring this up. Well everybody is familiar with the 3.5 tier list. So I just thought of a made up Tier 0 just for fun. And deities and over deities are tier 0 which they are unplayable.

[Kalkra]

So are Beholder Mage and Illithid Savant tier 1, or are they demigod tier?

[Bartmanhomer]

So are Beholder Mage and Illithid Savant tier 1, or are they demigod tier?

I think they're tier 1.

[Falontani]

Tainted Scholar belongs here as well.
From the base classes we can take:
Artificer (If using dmg suggested formula item prices, or a permissible dm)
StP Erudite (permissible dm)
And Archivist (permissible dm)

[JoshuaZ]

I think they're tier 1.

In that case, you are using the Tier system in a functionally non-standard way. Maybe see here for more about the standard terminology (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?269440-Why-Each-Class-Is-In-Its-Tier-(Rescued-from-MinMax)).

[Karl Aegis]

I don't see any base classes. What classes are you rating here?

[Bartmanhomer]

In that case, you are using the Tier system in a functionally non-standard way. Maybe see here for more about the standard terminology (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?269440-Why-Each-Class-Is-In-Its-Tier-(Rescued-from-MinMax)).

Ok. Thanks for the link. And just to let everybody know Tier 0 is just a made up tier that I invented. And it very unofficial and by no means connected with Tier 1 through 6. Beside I feel like deities deserved a tier as well which Tier 0 also stands for God-Tier.

[unseenmage]

You might want to read up on the Lady of Pain. She is not, never was, and never will be a deity. FYI.

[Inevitability]

Honestly, throwing demigods and greater deities in the same bag feels iffy enough, let alone adding in the freakin' lady of freakin' pain.

[Aharon]

I like the Test of Spite Tier system:


Tier -2: Pun Pun

Tier -1: An unbeatable build.

Tier 0: An effectively unbeatable build, though it can actually be beaten by the higher Tiers.

Tier .5: A build that can probably only be beaten if you have specifically prepared for it. Example: Sofawall's Cube build.

Tier 1: A build that has many effective tricks, insanely high defenses, and can end most encounters in a round. Example: A very effectively played Batman wizard.

Tier 2: Multiple great tricks and great defenses.Example: A CoDzilla

Tier 3: A build that either has one great trick or a lot of moderately good ones, while still having stellar defenses. Example: A well made Warblade, a good tripper, or a buff focused Sorcerer.

Tier 4: A build that, while still having a trick or two, has fallen very short on the defensive side of the line or has great defenses without being able to defeat an opponent on its own very easily. Example: A Charging Fighter or a VoP Monkadin.

Tier 5: A build that, while attempting to be optimized, still has neither good defenses nor a worthwile trick. Example: A typical fighter.

Tier 6: A build that *twitch* chooses feats for flavor reasons *twitch*

[Kalkra]

An effectively played Batman Beholder Mage will beat an effectively played Batman Wizard every time. An Illithid Savant can be as good or bad as the brains it eats, which can be taken to the Tippy extreme of eating the brains of Ice Assassins of yourself and every deity, for starters.

[Karl Aegis]

An effectively played Batman Beholder Mage will beat an effectively played Batman Wizard every time. An Illithid Savant can be as good or bad as the brains it eats, which can be taken to the Tippy extreme of eating the brains of Ice Assassins of yourself and every deity, for starters.

Those are not base classes. They are outside the scope of the tier list.

[Kalkra]

Those are not base classes. They are outside the scope of the tier list.

A beholder could take Beholder Mage as it's first level. From a practical standpoint, it's no different from base class as far as tiers are concerned.

[Karl Aegis]

A beholder could take Beholder Mage as it's first level. From a practical standpoint, it's no different from base class as far as tiers are concerned.

That's not how the tier system works.

[Buufreak]

I don't see any base classes. What classes are you rating here?

^definitely this.

The tier system is about rating classes based on their ability to operate in game. It has nothing to do with any character's divine rank, nor has it ever.

Tier 0 has always existed, and consists of specific classes. Again, it has nothing to do with divine rank.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Seems odd since these things aren't actually classes or even builds or parts thereof. Also it may have fallen out of fashion, but I'm familiar with Tier 0 as a discussion term for "classes" like Spell to power Erudite, Psionic Artificer, and sometimes PRC/Base class combos that are better than Tier 1; Early entry Rainbow Servant on a list caster, Beholder Mage without beholder mage ECL, etc.