Question about StP and Epic Expanded Knowledge to obtain spells [RAW]

[D&DPrinceTandem]

So recently I entered a debate with a friend of mine and we have reached an im-pass. This is a Strictly RAW debate and post that implement The rule of "up to the DM" will not be acceptable. Each side will be as ambiguous as possible to what side I am to keep this as unbiased as possible.
The Question is: Can a Manifester (lvl 21+), although not a StP Erudite, take the feat Epic Expanded Knowledge to Obtain a Spell?

The Feat in question

Benefit: You learn one additional power at any level up to the highest level of power you can manifest. You can choose any power, even one that is part of another discipline's list or another class's list.
Here is the sides currently
This Side of the Argument runs off of these lines,
"You treat the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it, and you must first succeed on a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check as per the normal rules of learning a discipline power" StP Erudite ACF
Therefor the the spell is a power for the purpose of learning it and and by proxy CAN be obtained through Epic Expanded Knowledge



This Side of the Argument runs off of these lines,
"As with casting a spell, manifesting a spell may require certain components (see page 174 of the Player's Handbook). Some of the components remain unchanged, such as verbal, somatic, and XP cost. Spells with expensive material components (non-negligible) require you to spend an additional 2 power points when manifesting the spell in lieu of the material components" StP Erudite ACF and
StP Spell list is only accessible to StP Erudites due to the powers being out of any class list and from a discipline exclusive not to Erudites but to StP Erudites" Debators own words.
Therefor they are still spells and by proxy CAN NOT be obtained through Epic Expanded Knowledge

[Troacctid]

This Side of the Argument runs off of these lines,
"You treat the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it, and you must first succeed on a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check as per the normal rules of learning a discipline power" StP Erudite ACF
Therefor the the spell is a power for the purpose of learning it and and by proxy CAN be obtained through Epic Expanded Knowledge

...Does the character in question have this ability? Because if not, "This ability I don't have allows other people to learn it as a power!" gets you nowhere. It's like trying to claim that your 20th level psion should have fast healing and citing the warshaper prestige class ability as evidence.

[Pippin]

Dry your eyes, an StP Erudite knowing the spell you need is only a thrall away! :D

[D&DPrinceTandem]

...Does the character in question have this ability? Because if not, "This ability I don't have allows other people to learn it as a power!" gets you nowhere. It's like trying to claim that your 20th level psion should have fast healing and citing the warshaper prestige class ability as evidence.
The fact that other people can learn it as a power means that it can be obtained with Epic Expanded Knowledge. So this is a false statement.

[Troacctid]

The fact that other people can learn it as a power means that it can be obtained with Epic Expanded Knowledge. So this is a false statement.
Other people have fast healing. Does that mean that you should also have fast healing? No, because you don't have an ability that grants it, and those other people do.

[Crichton]

Could a stp eruditeuse psychic chirurgery to grant the power-converted spell to another manifester? If so it exists as a power independently of the stp erudite's class feature, so yes, epic expanded knowledge would work.

[Hackulator]

The fact that other people can learn it as a power means that it can be obtained with Epic Expanded Knowledge. So this is a false statement.

The other people who have that class ability can learn it with Epic Expand Knowledge (maybe, that's not the question here so I'm not going to analyze it). However, someone who does not have that class ability cannot, very clearly. As Troacctid said, you don't get the advantages of a class ability unless you have that class ability, any other ruling is nuts.

[Troacctid]

Could a stp eruditeuse psychic chirurgery to grant the power-converted spell to another manifester? If so it exists as a power independently of the stp erudite's class feature, so yes, epic expanded knowledge would work.
Arguably yes, but there's a world of difference between a sorcerer learning an off-list spell via wyrm wizard and then trading it to another sorcerer with dragonblood spell-pact, and a sorcerer learning an off-list spell on level-up because it would theoretically be possible for a hypothetical sorcerer somewhere in the world to have learned it via wyrm wizard.

[Crichton]

Arguably yes, but there's a world of difference between a sorcerer learning an off-list spell via wyrm wizard and then trading it to another sorcerer with dragonblood spell-pact, and a sorcerer learning an off-list spell on level-up because it would theoretically be possible for a hypothetical sorcerer somewhere in the world to have learned it via wyrm wizard.

That statement is true, but not equivalent to what we've been discussing. If epic expanded knowledge let's you pick any power, that's not the same as on level up.

[Troacctid]

That statement is true, but not equivalent to what we've been discussing. If epic expanded knowledge let's you pick any power, that's not the same as on level up.
Wyrm wizard turns a spell into a sorcerer spell; leveling up as a sorcerer lets you learn any sorcerer spell. Convert Spell to Power turns a spell into a power; Epic Expanded Knowledge lets you learn any power. It's not the same, but it's analogous.

[Crichton]

Wyrm wizard turns a spell into a sorcerer spell; leveling up as a sorcerer lets you learn any sorcerer spell. Convert Spell to Power turns a spell into a power; Epic Expanded Knowledge lets you learn any power. It's not the same, but it's analogous.

Neither wyrm wizard nor stp erudite add the spell to the sorcerer or psion base spell lists, which are the lists you can choose from when adding spells/powers at level up. That's not the same as a feat letting you add *any* power, regardless of what list it's on.

[Troacctid]

What are you talking about? Wyrm wizard adds the spell to your class spell list.

Spell Research (Ex): One of the greatest advantages that you gain from consulting draconic lore is the ability to unlock magical secrets forbidden to other wizards. Starting at 2nd level, select one spell from any class's spell list (including divine spells), of a level equal to or lower than the highest-level arcane spell you can prepare and cast. You can add this spell to your arcane spellcasting class spell list as a spell of the same level; all other aspects of the spell remain unchanged. At every even-numbered level thereafter, you gain the knowledge and use of one additional spell in this manner.
That's even a step beyond erudite! Erudites don't actually add the spell to their class list.

[Crichton]

What are you talking about? Wyrm wizard adds the spell to your class spell list.

Wyrm wizard adds it to that sorcerer's list, but any other sorcerer can't add it on level up, because it's not on *the* sorcerer list.

Erudite doesn't add it to the psion list, but it doesn't have to, if the feat let's you add *any* power.


Edit: to be clear, I used to agree that it wouldn't work, but it was because I had misread the epic expanded knowledge wording. I had thought it said you can add a power *from* any list, but it actually does say you can add any power.