Spellcaster awareness of own spells questions

[Jowgen]

I'm looking for a few rules clarifications relating as to how much awareness a spellcaster has of their own active spells. Figured better to do a thread than ask in the Q&A. Citations on where the relevant rules on these can be found would be most appreciated. :smallsmile:

1. Resisted Spells

You cast a spell on a target and the spell doesn't take either because the save was made, it didn't overcome the targets SR, the target has an immunity to the effect, or the target is in an AMF. Said spell can either be overt (e.g. ray of frost) or sublte (e.g. bestow curse) in its effect.

To what degree can the spellcaster tell how/why the spell failed?

2. Active spells out of sight

You cast charm person on a guy and darkness on his belt and hat, then leaves. Some dude comes by and dominates the target, winning the opposed charisma check for conflicting mental control, and then dispels one darkness spell and counters the other with a light descriptor spell.

Do you have any awareness of any of this happening?

3. Summons out of range

On three occasions, you summon a bear to go off in a random direction and then a Swarm of rats that goes on its merry way while you maintain concentration on it.

The bear and swarm respectively enter an anti-magic field, die in combat, and get dispelled on said occasions

Are you aware of any of this happening and if so to what extent, e.g. do you know where and why the spell ended?

[peacenlove]

1.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#theSpellsResult

Once you know which creatures (or objects or areas) are affected, and whether those creatures have made successful saving throws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#savingThrows) (if any were allowed), you can apply whatever results a spell entails.

You know if a creature is affected or not (but not why it wasn't affected) and of those creatures affected, you know if they made a successful save or not.
Thats the extend of the information you get AFAIK.
2.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#subjectsEffectsandAreas

If the spell affects creatures directly the result travels with the subjects for the spell’s duration. ...
No unless you can observe the effect. For the Domination effect a Sense motive DC 15 upon interacting with the creature would be enough for instance.

3.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears... if they die in combat or get dispelled, the spell ends.
As noted in 1. You don't know if a spell ends unless you observe it somehow.
Special case: Concentration duration.

You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. It would be reasonable to rule that you instantly become notified when a spell with a concentration duration ends, but I cannot find such a ruling.

[Hackulator]

1.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#theSpellsResult


You know if a creature is affected or not (but not why it wasn't affected) and of those creatures affected, you know if they made a successful save or not.
Thats the extend of the information you get AFAIK.
2.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#subjectsEffectsandAreas

No unless you can observe the effect. For the Domination effect a Sense motive DC 15 upon interacting with the creature would be enough for instance.

3.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration
if they die in combat or get dispelled, the spell ends.
As noted in 1. You don't know if a spell ends unless you observe it somehow.
Special case: Concentration duration.
It would be reasonable to rule that you instantly become notified when a spell with a concentration duration ends, but I cannot find such a ruling.

I agree with all of this but the first one. I am almost certain the "you" in the quoted section is the player or DM, not the character, so you have no idea in-character if your spell failed. In fact, I think there are examples in books where they discuss pretending you were affected by a spell when you were not, though I'm sorry I cannot find an example to cite right now.

[Falontani]

Along the same line: power word pain. Is the dm supposed to roll the dice, do you know intrinsically how long is left on your power word pain? Etc

[Jowgen]

I agree with all of this but the first one. I am almost certain the "you" in the quoted section is the player or DM, not the character, so you have no idea in-character if your spell failed. In fact, I think there are examples in books where they discuss pretending you were affected by a spell when you were not, though I'm sorry I cannot find an example to cite right now.

Actually, I think you're thinking of the spelltouched False Pretenses feat, which lets you fool people who try to charm/domaninate you that you failed your save when you succeed.

Which lends some support to peacenlove's reading I think.

[Hackulator]

Actually, I think you're thinking of the spelltouched False Pretenses feat, which lets you fool people who try to charm/domaninate you that you failed your save when you succeed.

Which lends some support to peacenlove's reading I think.

It does, though it wouldn't be the first time a feat was badly integrated with the rest of the games rules. I also think generally feats are written for PCs with some exceptions, so the idea here is that the NPC automatically is sure you are charmed with no need for a bluff check or anything like that. While I could be wrong about whether you know your spell was resisted, I am certain that the quoted bit is referring to the player or even DM, not the character.

[Jowgen]

It does, though it wouldn't be the first time a feat was badly integrated with the rest of the games rules. I also think generally feats are written for PCs with some exceptions, so the idea here is that the NPC automatically is sure you are charmed with no need for a bluff check or anything like that. While I could be wrong about whether you know your spell was resisted, I am certain that the quoted bit is referring to the player or even DM, not the character.

I looked into a bit, and according to the rules of the game (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040831a) articles, the caster does know.


If the spell has no obvious physical effects (and most spells that allow saves to negate don't), a recipient that makes a successful saving throw still feels an obviously hostile force or tingle. If the spell has a target or targets entry, the caster knows that the spell has failed.

[Hackulator]

I looked into a bit, and according to the rules of the game (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040831a) articles, the caster does know.

Seems like you are correct, I've never seen that web article. Although tbh, it generally gets run the other way in games I play in and getting all the DMs together to decide to change it is not worth it lol.