Do the effects of Mirror Image and Blur stack?

[Thrasher92]

I'm sure this question has been asked before but, Blur is a concentration spell and Mirror Image isn't, a wizard would be able to cast both of those spells.

Blur
2 illusion
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V
Duration: Up to 1 minute
Classes: Sorcerer, Wizard
Your body becomes blurred, shifting and wavering to all who can see you. For the duration, any creature has disadvantage on attack rolls against you. An attacker is immune to this effect if it doesn’t rely on sight, as with blindsight, or can see through illusions, as with truesight.

Mirror Image
2 illusion
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V S
Duration: 1 minute
Classes: Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard
Three illusory duplicates of yourself appear in your space. Until the spell ends, the duplicates move with you and mimic your actions, shifting position so it’s impossible to track which image is real. You can use your action to dismiss the illusory duplicates.
Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell’s duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates.
If you have three duplicates, you must roll a 6 or higher to change the attack’s target to a duplicate. With two duplicates, you must roll an 8 or higher. With one duplicate, you must roll an 11 or higher.
A duplicate’s AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier. If an attack hits a duplicate, the duplicate is destroyed. A duplicate can be destroyed only by an attack that hits it. It ignores all other damage and effects. The spell ends when all three duplicates are destroyed.
A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can’t see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight.

[Malifice]

Yes they do.

Although the attacker can avoid that happening by simply shutting its eyes.

It gets disadvantage for being blind (which it would get anyway for blur) but ignores the mirror image effects.

Open your eyes back up at the end of your turn.

[RSP]

They can work together, but how they work is a DM call, in that it’s unclear whether attacks targeting the images would be done at Disadvantage.

[Rukelnikov]

They can work together, but how they work is a DM call, in that it’s unclear whether attacks targeting the images would be done at Disadvantage.

MI copies imitate your appeareance, if your appeareance is blurred, theirs are too, and thus they should benefit from blur, same as they would benefit from invisibility if you were using that instead of blur.

[Man_Over_Game]

They can work together, but how they work is a DM call, in that it’s unclear whether attacks targeting the images would be done at Disadvantage.

I would say that they do stack (as a DM call), because:


Mirror Image is described as being a "duplicate" of you, and that it "moves with you and mimics your actions". If the Mirror Images ceased to be identical (including your Blur), then they'd cease to function within the narrative. If one image was blurry when the other 3 weren't, then Mirror Image wouldn't do anything, right?
Blur is a Concentration spell. While you're concentrating on that, the caster's options for damage is dramatically reduced.
The setup requires the caster to be under constant attack to get the most use, which is best done in melee combat. There are few casters who would prefer to be in melee combat with 2 level 2 spell slots and not casting an offensive Concentration spell.
Both spells are counted by the same effects (Saving Throws, being blind, truesight). This means that a mage could lose two spells from someone spending one.


The only way I could really see this being abused is by a Bladesinger (who already has high AC and still has all of the Bladesinger weaknesses), or a Paladin/Sorcerer hybrid that is incredibly tanky but will end up dealing little damage. In the end, you're spending a level 2 spell slot and an action to increase your effective AC for a minute, and then doing it again. There are still many threats that aren't attacks, and many ways for enemies to get around the illusory benefits.

Darkness, for instance, would be a great equalizer.

[Zanthy1]

Yes but you would have to cast Blur first. Mirror Image copies what you look like when you cast it and mimics your actions. So if you are Blur and cast it, then the copies will also be Blurry.

However if you cast Mirror Image first then Blur, the Mirrors would copy the movements you made but their image is unalterable and thus wouldn't be Blurry. There was a post by Citan just yesterday discussing Mirror Image with Enlarge, and it was the same general idea, once Mirror Image is cast, the copies mimic your actions, but do not change their appearance.

[Boci]

Yes they do.

Although the attacker can avoid that happening by simply shutting its eyes.

It gets disadvantage for being blind (which it would get anyway for blur) but ignores the mirror image effects.

Open your eyes back up at the end of your turn.

Which the wizard's party members can in turn exploit by readying actions to attack and getting advantage against the blind target.

[JNAProductions]

Which the wizard's party members can in turn exploit by readying actions to attack and getting advantage against the blind target.

Considering the resources and risks invested in this...

I'd be fine with that.

[Boci]

Considering the resources and risks invested in this...

I'd be fine with that.

Oh yeah, not saying its a great exploit or anything, just the work around for the enemy does have a new disadvantage. Really though, if the caster is spending 2 spell casting making themself annoying to hit, its entierly possible the enemy will just not attack them and focus on another party member instead.

[JNAProductions]

Oh yeah, not saying its a great exploit or anything, just the work around for the enemy does have a new disadvantage. Really though, if the caster is spending 2 spell casting making themself annoying to hit, its entierly possible the enemy will just not attack them and focus on another party member instead.

Also quite true.

[Dalebert]

Really though, if the caster is spending 2 spell casting making themself annoying to hit, its entierly possible the enemy will just not attack them and focus on another party member instead.

Or they'll skip all of it and use a save-based tactic like Sacred Flame.

[Keravath]

Yes but you would have to cast Blur first. Mirror Image copies what you look like when you cast it and mimics your actions. So if you are Blur and cast it, then the copies will also be Blurry.

However if you cast Mirror Image first then Blur, the Mirrors would copy the movements you made but their image is unalterable and thus wouldn't be Blurry. There was a post by Citan just yesterday discussing Mirror Image with Enlarge, and it was the same general idea, once Mirror Image is cast, the copies mimic your actions, but do not change their appearance.

I’m just curious where you get the idea that the images only replicate the image of the caster at the time the spell is cast. The text of the spell does not say that. In addition, the text of the spell could not possibly work if that was how the spell worked.

Consider this, the caster is wearing clothes. Those clothes have wrinkles, smudges, dirt, the clothes move as the caster moves ..cloaks swing, helmets/gloves move, grip on weapons and shields shift.

However, you are suggesting that the image just remains looking like the caster when the spell is cast. This means the clothes do not move, the expression on the casters face does not change, if the caster is injured then this is not replicated. The result is that the spell can’t possiblt function as intended if it does not continually update the appearance of the images to match whatever the caster looks like at the moment, including the effects of blur if it is also cast.

However, as another poster mentioned, an attacker could close their eyes when attacking to nullify the effect of mirror image and just attack with disadvantage which is what blur does anyway.

PS the general opinion in the other thread was that mirror image would also enlarge for the reasons I described above

[Rukelnikov]

Yes but you would have to cast Blur first. Mirror Image copies what you look like when you cast it and mimics your actions. So if you are Blur and cast it, then the copies will also be Blurry.

However if you cast Mirror Image first then Blur, the Mirrors would copy the movements you made but their image is unalterable and thus wouldn't be Blurry. There was a post by Citan just yesterday discussing Mirror Image with Enlarge, and it was the same general idea, once Mirror Image is cast, the copies mimic your actions, but do not change their appearance.

Mirror Images looks like you for the whole duration, otherwise a slash that draws blood would render your images non-functional since everyone could tell which one is the real one.

[bid]

The only way I could really see this being abused is by a Bladesinger (who already has high AC and still has all of the Bladesinger weaknesses), or a Paladin/Sorcerer hybrid that is incredibly tanky but will end up dealing little damage. In the end, you're spending a level 2 spell slot and an action to increase your effective AC for a minute, and then doing it again. There are still many threats that aren't attacks, and many ways for enemies to get around the illusory benefits.
How is that combo any better for those?
Yeah, ok, you mean only those are attacked often enough to be worth it, yes?
For others, the blurred mirror images won't fall fast enough to be worth a second slot. In fact, you might as well recast mirror image once it falls.

Mirror image is just free hits, and fractional ones at that since a miss on you could still destroy a mirror image. I'd say it's even worse for them, considering it happens more often with high-AC casters.

I mean, a disadvantage roll of 15 will still destroy a mirror image. It doesn't matter if you have a stupendous AC25 or a low AC16, the result is the same.

[Zanthy1]

Mirror Images looks like you for the whole duration, otherwise a slash that draws blood would render your images non-functional since everyone could tell which one is the real one.

Correct, it mimics how you look. But the size and resolution of that mirrored image does not change. You smile, it smiles. Your hood flies off, its hood flies off. But if you go from 4k HD to 720p, the mirror stays at 4k, same with if you grow to 10 feet, the image stays your original height.

[Man_Over_Game]

Correct, it mimics how you look. But the size and resolution of that mirrored image does not change. You smile, it smiles. Your hood flies off, its hood flies off. But if you go from 4k HD to 720p, the mirror stays at 4k, same with if you grow to 10 feet, the image stays your original height.

Narratively, how does Mirror Image work, then?

DnD, at its very core, is a game about making a narrative, and the mechanics are just balanced ways of making that narrative happen. Strict RAW readings should never get in the way of what makes sense in a narrative.

[Rukelnikov]

Narratively, how does Mirror Image work, then?

DnD, at its very core, is a game about making a narrative, and the mechanics are just balanced ways of making that narrative happen. Strict RAW readings should never get in the way of what makes sense in a narrative.

Strict RAW isn't overly explicit but does say:

* "it's impossible to track which image is real"
* "A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can't see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight"

So, if it didn't mimic Polymorph for instance, a creature would be unnafected by the spell without fulfiling any of the unaffected criteria.

Same for Blur, disguise self, or any other spell that alters appeareance.

JC confirms this: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/06/04/mirror-image-invisibility-do-the-mirror-images-also-become-invisible/

[JNAProductions]

Correct, it mimics how you look. But the size and resolution of that mirrored image does not change. You smile, it smiles. Your hood flies off, its hood flies off. But if you go from 4k HD to 720p, the mirror stays at 4k, same with if you grow to 10 feet, the image stays your original height.

Do you have any rules text to support this, or even fluff?

[furby076]

Yes but you would have to cast Blur first. Mirror Image copies what you look like when you cast it and mimics your actions. So if you are Blur and cast it, then the copies will also be Blurry.

if your statement were true, and mirror images only looked like what you did when the spell would cast they would
1) not mirror your actions, movements, effects when you cast spells (fire cast from your hands)
2) not change in look if you became bloodied or suffered any other visible wounds
3) would be ineffective if someone threw dirt or flour on you.


In this case, I think the casting time is irrelevant