Immunity to holy water?

[Ozzie831]

Hey everyone,

Im in the middle of creating an undead character and I was wondering if there were any ways to become immune to holy water or a way to get a resistance to it.

Thanks!

[BowStreetRunner]

I have a potential solution, but it depends upon being able to convince your DM that this works.

The description of Holy Water in the PHB states that it damages undead 'almost' as if it were acid, which isn't very useful in determining the energy type of the damage. However, the spell Bless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWater.htm) states that it imbues water with positive energy, turning it into holy water. Most DMs should be willing to accept that this means that this makes holy water a positive energy effect. (However, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some out there who will argue that since it's not in the description of the item that it has no bearing.)

As long as your DM is willing to accept that the damage caused by holy water is a positive energy effect, then there is a feat from Libris Mortis (page 29) called Positive Energy Resistance. It only grants Resistance 10, but since a flask of holy water only deals 2d4 points of damage, this should be sufficient for most purposes.

[Crake]

I have a potential solution, but it depends upon being able to convince your DM that this works.

The description of Holy Water in the PHB states that it damages undead 'almost' as if it were acid, which isn't very useful in determining the energy type of the damage. However, the spell Bless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWater.htm) states that it imbues water with positive energy, turning it into holy water. Most DMs should be willing to accept that this means that this makes holy water a positive energy effect. (However, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some out there who will argue that since it's not in the description of the item that it has no bearing.)

As long as your DM is willing to accept that the damage caused by holy water is a positive energy effect, then there is a feat from Libris Mortis (page 29) called Positive Energy Resistance. It only grants Resistance 10, but since a flask of holy water only deals 2d4 points of damage, this should be sufficient for most purposes.

The lifeward spell should likewise suffice if you're judging the damage as positive energy.

[Telonius]

If the DM rules that Holy Water isn't an energy effect, then it's just regular untyped damage. Any form of DR would guard against it.

[AmeVulpes]

As long as your DM is willing to accept that the damage caused by holy water is a positive energy effect, then there is a feat from Libris Mortis (page 29) called Positive Energy Resistance. It only grants Resistance 10, but since a flask of holy water only deals 2d4 points of damage, this should be sufficient for most purposes.

I put forward the long-shot possibility of coming across a pool of Holy Water in a dungeon and falling into it, perhaps in a trap. Using the standard damages for falling into things (boiling water, which deals 1d6 on touch, becomes 10d6 on submersion, lava 2d6 becomes 20d6, acid 1d6 becomes 10d6), you'd be looking at 20d4. I believe there is a very weak case to be made for needing full immunity.



Most pools are made of water, but anything’s possible in a dungeon. Pools can hold unsavory substances such as blood, poison, oil, or magma. And even if a pool holds water, it can be holy water, saltwater, or water tainted with disease.
-----------------------------------------------

If the DM rules that Holy Water isn't an energy effect, then it's just regular untyped damage. Any form of DR would guard against it.

Can you cite something on this, please? It seems ambiguous, as I wouldn't say by any means this is a "weapon." The DR entry says "weapon" over and over again, but doesn't say anything I see about non-weapon damage sources. I've wondered about falling damage in the past, myself.
EDIT: I considered, after writing this, that holy water is often thrown. I wouldn't necessarily call the water itself a weapon, though, as a DM. I think of the flask more as a hazardous-environment-delivery-system.

[Uncle Pine]

As long as you start off as a member of a suitable race before undergoing undeath, Human Heritage (RoD 152) will make you immune to holy water.

[BowStreetRunner]

As long as you start off as a member of a suitable race before undergoing undeath, Human Heritage (RoD 152) will make you immune to holy water.Once you become undead though, you are no longer a member of a suitable race.

[DrMotives]

As long as you start off as a member of a suitable race before undergoing undeath, Human Heritage (RoD 152) will make you immune to holy water.

No, no it won't. That feat is one of the most poorly understood feats in this forum. It won't make undead count as not-undead

[AmeVulpes]

Once you become undead though, you are no longer a member of a suitable race.

No, no it won't. That feat is one of the most poorly understood feats in this forum. It won't make undead count as not-undead

I agree with DrMotives. I'm fairly sure also you'd lose the Humanoid type by becoming undead. Although, an argument could be made whether your undead form (even an undead human) is "human-descended," so unless written otherwise, you may be able to acquire it even into your unlife. This would, of course, require you to be a 1HD (or otherwise first level if I'm misunderstanding HD and level again) undead.

[Uncle Pine]

Once you become undead though, you are no longer a member of a suitable race.


No, no it won't. That feat is one of the most poorly understood feats in this forum. It won't make undead count as not-undead


{{Scrubbed}}

A half-elf necropolitan, lich, ghost, vampire, half-dragon, or whatnot is still a half-elf: it retains the few racial traits that were granted to him at character creation and qualifies for game elements such as half-elf paragon, human paragon, arcane archer and so on. I don't see why Human Heritage should be any different, as the story of every half-elf necropolitan still starts with "when a momma elf and a daddy human loves each other very much" even if it goes "and then he was crucified" halfway through chapter 3.

EDIT: An argument could be made about the retroactivity of the feat (as in, becoming undead making you lose the humanoid type and human subtype), but since being undead doesn't disqualify you from the feat I think the feat should still provide its full benefits.

[BowStreetRunner]

A half-elf necropolitan, lich, ghost, vampire, half-dragon, or whatnot is still a half-elf: it retains the few racial traits that were granted to him at character creation and qualifies for game elements such as half-elf paragon, human paragon, arcane archer and so on. I don't see why Human Heritage should be any different, as the story of every half-elf necropolitan still starts with "when a momma elf and a daddy human loves each other very much" even if it goes "and then he was crucified" halfway through chapter 3.

So you have a undead half-elf who is also treated as an undead human due to the feat. They are still undead and take damage from holy water.

EDIT: another way to look at this - just because they are treated as a human doesn't mean they aren't treated as an undead. The feat doesn't say they lose all of their other properties due to their type and/or subtype. So they are now treated as a human with all of those other qualities.

[Uncle Pine]

So you have a undead half-elf who is also treated as an undead human due to the feat. They are still undead and take damage from holy water.
Not "also": you would be an Undead (elf) that is treated as a Humanoid (human) for the purpose of adjudicating all effects.

You are treated as a humanoid with the human subtype for the purpose of adjudicating all effects.
Humanoids are unaffected by holy water, therefore you take no damage from it.

EDIT: For example, if you were simply treated as an undead human you couldn't benefit from Enlarge Person, but as a humanoid you do.

[AmeVulpes]

Not "also": you would be an Undead (elf) that is treated as a Humanoid (human) for the purpose of adjudicating all effects.

Humanoids are unaffected by holy water, therefore you take no damage from it.

EDIT: For example, if you were simply treated as an undead human you couldn't benefit from Enlarge Person, but as a humanoid you do.

I retract my position, and now believe Uncle Pine to be correct. You wouldn't lose the Human type at all, because you never had it, you were only treated as if you had it, which is quite a major difference. Instead, I put forth that this may be a questionably-conceived feat. As written, I believe it grants holy water immunity.

[Telonius]

Can you cite something on this, please? It seems ambiguous, as I wouldn't say by any means this is a "weapon." The DR entry says "weapon" over and over again, but doesn't say anything I see about non-weapon damage sources. I've wondered about falling damage in the past, myself.
EDIT: I considered, after writing this, that holy water is often thrown. I wouldn't necessarily call the water itself a weapon, though, as a DM. I think of the flask more as a hazardous-environment-delivery-system.

From the entry on Damage Reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction):



Damage Reduction
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

Holy Water isn't a spell, a spell-like ability, or a supernatural ability. If the DM rules that Holy Water isn't an energy attack either, you've exhausted the list of things that ignores Damage Reduction in general. Unless the DR you get is DR X/holy water, the damage reduction would apply. (I think it would be an extremely silly ruling to say that it's not an energy attack; it's pretty clear to me that the simplest solution is for it to be a Positive Energy attack, like the others have mentioned. But if the DM derps and says it's not, then DR would be how you'd guard against it).

[DrMotives]

Being immune to holy water isn't a trait of being "Humanoid (human)", it's just that undead are harmed by it. If human heritage blocked that, why not claim that it allows undead with the feat to ignore all damage from positive energy, immune to turn/rebuke, and allowing them to keep a Con score? It's a ridiculous argument, it doesn't pass the sniff test at all. Yes, a half-elf (or whatever appropriate race) can select human heritage then become undead. This will change the type from Humanoid (human) to Undead (human), as type changes follow an order of operations, and subtypes generally don't get removed by templates anyway, unless specifically stated in a template description. Still, an Undead (human) is no more immune to things that normally affect all undead than a dwarf vampire (type being Undead (dwarf)) would be.

[Crake]

A half-elf necropolitan, lich, ghost, vampire, half-dragon, or whatnot is still a half-elf: it retains the few racial traits that were granted to him at character creation and qualifies for game elements such as half-elf paragon, human paragon, arcane archer and so on. I don't see why Human Heritage should be any different, as the story of every half-elf necropolitan still starts with "when a momma elf and a daddy human loves each other very much" even if it goes "and then he was crucified" halfway through chapter 3.

EDIT: An argument could be made about the retroactivity of the feat (as in, becoming undead making you lose the humanoid type and human subtype), but since being undead doesn't disqualify you from the feat I think the feat should still provide its full benefits.

This argument could be made for inherited templates, but since human heritage must be taken at 1st level, you will always get it before the template that makes you undead. So say you're a half dragon half elf, your type is dragon, but you take human heritage, and your type changes to humanoid, then you take necropolitan, and your type changes to undead.

[AmeVulpes]

From the entry on Damage Reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction):

Holy Water isn't a spell, a spell-like ability, or a supernatural ability. If the DM rules that Holy Water isn't an energy attack either, you've exhausted the list of things that ignores Damage Reduction in general. Unless the DR you get is DR X/holy water, the damage reduction would apply. (I think it would be an extremely silly ruling to say that it's not an energy attack; it's pretty clear to me that the simplest solution is for it to be a Positive Energy attack, like the others have mentioned. But if the DM derps and says it's not, then DR would be how you'd guard against it).

If I may borrow your citation;

Damage Reduction
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

I believe that, being incredibly pedantic and obsessed with semantics, RAW DR only works against weapons, and perhaps only weapons used by an opponent. It seems obvious that it's intended to protect against things other than weapons, but the exact scope of that is questionable. In the case of a DR that works by "wounds heal immediately" (which seems weird to have, when Fast Healing and Regeneration exist, but anyway...) it may work differently, but I'm fairly sure that it's still subject to the wording of "weapons and natural attacks."

I fully agree that it's ridiculous to call holy water's damage anything but energy, anyway.

------------------------

[...]you will always get it before the template that makes you undead. So say you're a half dragon half elf, your type is dragon, but you take human heritage, and your type changes to humanoid, then you take necropolitan, and your type changes to undead.

Your type never changes, you're only treated as Humanoid type.
EDIT: I was least half-wrong here.

Being immune to holy water isn't a trait of being "Humanoid (human)", it's just that undead are harmed by it.

If you're treated as humanoid, then you're not considered undead in this case, I believe.

[Crake]

Your type never changes, you're only treated as Humanoid type.


If you're treated as humanoid, then you're not considered undead in this case, I believe.


Benefit

You are treated as a humanoid with the human subtype for the purpose of adjudicating all effects. If you are not a humanoid, your type changes to humanoid and you gain the human subtype. If you are already a humanoid, you gain the human subtype. In either case, you retain any other subtypes you had (such as orc or extraplanar), and you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision). You gain 4 additional skill points.

You were saying?

There's actually a whole sidebar in races of destiny that talks about making these changes as baseline, and says that human heritage is the solution if you don't want to make such changes baseline. It's meant as a one time change at 1st level, much like taking dragonwrought as a kobold gives you the dragon type, but then if you were to become an undead later, you would still be undead, not dragon.

[AmeVulpes]

You were saying?


Benefit

You are treated as a humanoid with the human subtype for the purpose of adjudicating all effects. If you are not a humanoid, your type changes to humanoid and you gain the human subtype. If you are already a humanoid, you gain the human subtype. In either case, you retain any other subtypes you had (such as orc or extraplanar), and you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision). You gain 4 additional skill points.

You have a point, but may the bolded section be independent of the section that you, er, bolded? I admit that I missed that the first time I read it.


There's actually a whole sidebar in races of destiny that talks about making these changes as baseline, and says that human heritage is the solution if you don't want to make such changes baseline. It's meant as a one time change at 1st level, much like taking dragonwrought as a kobold gives you the dragon type, but then if you were to become an undead later, you would still be undead, not dragon.

In any case, I agree. However, the wording here may be independent of actual type.

[Particle_Man]

Hey everyone,

Im in the middle of creating an undead character and I was wondering if there were any ways to become immune to holy water or a way to get a resistance to it.

Thanks!


a resurrection spell? :smallsmile:

[Crake]

You have a point, but may the bolded section be independent of the section that you, er, bolded? I admit that I missed that the first time I read it.



In any case, I agree. However, the wording here may be independent of actual type.

Potentially, unless you take the first sentence as the outcome of the feat, and the second and third sentances as the method of that outcome, as opposed to treating them as separate effects of the feat, which are usually separated by a paragraph break.

[AmeVulpes]

Potentially, unless you take the first sentence as the outcome of the feat, and the second and third sentances as the method of that outcome, as opposed to treating them as separate effects of the feat, which are usually separated by a paragraph break.

It seems extremely strange that it would be worded in such a way, to say you are "treated as," when indeed you are simply changed to that type. If not for that little bit, I would completely agree, but per the exact words, they seem to be two different things.


You are treated as a humanoid with the human subtype for the purpose of adjudicating all effects. If you are not a humanoid, your type changes to humanoid [for the purpose of adjudicating all effects] and you gain the human subtype [for the purpose of adjudicating all effects]. If you are already a humanoid, you gain the human subtype [for the purpose of adjudicating all effects].

Could it be that it is meant to be read this way?
----------

In either case, you retain any other subtypes you had (such as orc or extraplanar), and you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision). You gain 4 additional skill points.
I admit, however, that this implies that this is not the correct reading, as your type changing only for the purpose of effects probably wouldn't be assumed to take your subtypes or darkvision away. As well, it makes no mention of keeping type, only subtype, so this reading isn't exactly airtight, but I think is valid.

[Uncle Pine]

Being immune to holy water isn't a trait of being "Humanoid (human)", it's just that undead are harmed by it.
Being immune or affected by holy water isn't a trait, but rather an effect that takes place depending on a creature's type (much in the same way targeting a creature with Enlarge Person works). In other words, if you possess undead traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) but count as a humanoid you are immune to holy water (because weakness to it isn't tied to undead traits). On the other hand, if you possessed humanoid traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType) but somehow managed to count as an undead you'd be affected by holy water (because weakness to it is tied to the undead type).


If human heritage blocked that, why not claim that it allows undead with the feat to ignore all damage from positive energy, immune to turn/rebuke, and allowing them to keep a Con score? It's a ridiculous argument, it doesn't pass the sniff test at all. Yes, a half-elf (or whatever appropriate race) can select human heritage then become undead. This will change the type from Humanoid (human) to Undead (human), as type changes follow an order of operations, and subtypes generally don't get removed by templates anyway, unless specifically stated in a template description. Still, an Undead (human) is no more immune to things that normally affect all undead than a dwarf vampire (type being Undead (dwarf)) would be.

While being healed by negative energy is part of the undead traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) that are retained through Human Heritage, being damaged by positive energy is not and is defined elsewhere (usually the very text of the ability in question, for example CLW (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureLightWounds.htm)): an undead treated as a humanoid is healed by cure spells powered by positive energy. It is also healed by inflict spells powered by negative energy.
Turn/rebuke undead can only be used against undead: an undead treated as a humanoid is therefore immune to them, but is vulnerable to turn/rebuke humanoids (if your DM can find one).
"No Constitution score" is the very first of undead traits: Human Heritage won't let you keep that.

You're right about a half-elf who selects human heritage having his type changed from Humanoid (human, elf) to Undead (human, helf). However, thanks to the first line of Human Heritage, the undead elf will still be treated as a Humanoid (human) for the purpose of being splashed with holy water.


This argument could be made for inherited templates, but since human heritage must be taken at 1st level, you will always get it before the template that makes you undead. So say you're a half dragon half elf, your type is dragon, but you take human heritage, and your type changes to humanoid, then you take necropolitan, and your type changes to undead.
The type of a half-dragon half-elf taking Human Heritage and then becoming a necropolitan switches from humanoid (base) to dragon (half-dragon) to humanoid again (Human Heritage) to undead (necropolitan). However, from 1st level onward, he is still "treated as a humanoid (human) for the purpose of adjudicating all effects" thanks to human heritage, regardless of his actual type.

To sum up my point of view, this is what I believe a half-elf with Human Heritage who took up the necropolitan template would get:
- Medium Undead (human, elf, augmented humanoid)
- Speed 30 ft.
- Immunity to mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, damage to physical ability scores, fatigue and exhaustion effects, death from massive damage, as well as any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)
- +2 racial bonus against enchantment spells or effects
- Low-light vision, darkvision 60 ft.
- +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks
- Healed by negative energy
- No Constitution score
- Is immediately destroyed if reduced to 0 hp
- Becomes a normal half-elf if hit by (true) resurrection
- Uses Charisma for Concentration checks
- Doesn't eat, sleep, or breathe
- Proficient with simple weapons
- Common and Elven as automatic languages
- Favored class: any
- Is treated as a Humanoid (human) for the purpose of adjudicating all effects

[Crake]

The type of a half-dragon half-elf taking Human Heritage and then becoming a necropolitan switches from humanoid (base) to dragon (half-dragon) to humanoid again (Human Heritage) to undead (necropolitan). However, from 1st level onward, he is still "treated as a humanoid (human) for the purpose of adjudicating all effects" thanks to human heritage, regardless of his actual type.

That would be incredibly redundant, and also very strange when adjudicating things like polymorph (it makes no sense for a feat which is meant to bring out your human heritage to suddenly make a spell like polymorph function incredibly differently). It makes much more sense to read the feat as stating it's goal, and the explaining it's method toward achieving that goal.

Of course, if you choose to believe that the feat both makes you treated as humanoid (human) while simultaneously changing you to humanoid (human), and treating that as two separate effects, then there's not really an argument to be had, since there's no real way to change your mind beyond what I've already stated.

[Ozzie831]

Woof. This went from 0 replies to 20+ real fast. I guess I should have been more specific. Im going down the Walker in the Waste PrC. Which becomes a dry lich, which makes ALL water act as holy water.

To make it any simpler, is there just a way to become waterproof?

[Telonius]

Resilient or Telekinetic Sphere would probably be the simplest way to completely enclose yourself away from water, though it would also very much limit what you can do to anyone attacking you. (It would block line of effect).

[Uncle Pine]

Woof. This went from 0 replies to 20+ real fast. I guess I should have been more specific. Im going down the Walker in the Waste PrC. Which becomes a dry lich, which makes ALL water act as holy water.

To make it any simpler, is there just a way to become waterproof?
I'm not sure about becoming waterproof, but you could try to evaporate all water before it comes in contact with you:
- Water boils at 212°F. According to Sandstorm 12, this falls within the "burning heat" category of temperature
- Walker in the Waste 3 gives you Local Drought, which raises the temperature in a 20-ft. radius of you by one category or to "hot", whichever is higher
- Darsson's Fiery Furnace (Shining South) is a 2nd level spell which rises the temperature in an area to "extreme heat" (which is two category away from burning heat). It can be made permanent in an area, but ideally you'd want to enchant a small heater or thurible so that you can bring it along.
- Control Temperature (Frostburn) can be used to furtherly increase temperature in an emanation around you by up to one category every 5 caster levels. It even lasts 1 hour/level, so you can just add it to your buff routine.

If you combine all three, you only need CL 5 to reach burning heat with control temperature and simply boil all water within 20 ft. from you. Without access to the aforementioned thurible of Darsson's fiery furnace, you'll need CL 20.

[noob]

I'm not sure about becoming waterproof, but you could try to evaporate all water before it comes in contact with you:
- Water boils at 212°F. According to Sandstorm 12, this falls within the "burning heat" category of temperature
- Walker in the Waste 3 gives you Local Drought, which raises the temperature in a 20-ft. radius of you by one category or to "hot", whichever is higher
- Darsson's Fiery Furnace (Shining South) is a 2nd level spell which rises the temperature in an area to "extreme heat" (which is two category away from burning heat). It can be made permanent in an area, but ideally you'd want to enchant a small heater or thurible so that you can bring it along.
- Control Temperature (Frostburn) can be used to furtherly increase temperature in an emanation around you by up to one category every 5 caster levels. It even lasts 1 hour/level, so you can just add it to your buff routine.

If you combine all three, you only need CL 5 to reach burning heat with control temperature and simply boil all water within 20 ft. from you. Without access to the aforementioned thurible of Darsson's fiery furnace, you'll need CL 20.
Now what is the damage of holy water vapors?

[AmeVulpes]

Now what is the damage of holy water vapors?

Not sure if this is a joke, but regardless, it raises a point. Holy water doesn't say that it loses its properties if evaporated. Regular steam may not affect a dry lich, I'm not sure (the heat wouldn't), but holy steam may not lose its undead-hurtiness. Totally up to the DM, I guess, whether evaporated means destroyed in this context.

At worst, I would say a typical amount of steam from a thrown flask would deal the 1 point splash damage.

EDIT: Actually, I don't think the ambient heat solution addresses flasks properly. I think that the glass would protect the water from the heat (long enough to be thrown, anyway). Otherwise, it superheats and explodes when the water flashes into steam inside the flask.

[Telonius]

You could probably kill some catgirls to figure out the difference in density between water vapor and liquid water, and figure it out proportionally from there. :smallbiggrin:

[Thurbane]

Yeah, personally I don't think DR would help against holy water any more than it would against falling damage...

[Ozzie831]

The main problem that I have in my brain is that Im not actually in a "Desert Campaign". So Im like "what the hell do I do if it rains?" Get an umbrella? Like when have you ever used an umbrella and not still gotten wet? My campaign is based in Tal Dorei. There is a lot of places covered in snow, especially where Im at now. Would snow still count as water? I say it would.

[AmeVulpes]

The main problem that I have in my brain is that Im not actually in a "Desert Campaign". So Im like "what the hell do I do if it rains?" Get an umbrella? Like when have you ever used an umbrella and not still gotten wet? My campaign is based in Tal Dorei. There is a lot of places covered in snow, especially where Im at now. Would snow still count as water? I say it would.

Tiny Hut is a third-level Bard/Sor/Wiz spell. (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Tiny_Hut) Not an ideal solution, considering you're a divine caster unless you have a multi-class I didn't catch, but an item for that shouldn't be too expensive.

Also, wear rubber boots.

EDIT: 15,000gp unless my mastery of magic items is wack.

[noob]

Tiny Hut is a third-level Bard/Sor/Wiz spell. (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Tiny_Hut) Not an ideal solution, considering you're a divine caster unless you have a multi-class I didn't catch, but an item for that shouldn't be too expensive.

Also, wear rubber boots.

EDIT: 15,000gp unless my mastery of magic items is wack.

27000 for at will.
if you want X (X<5) times a day it costs X*5400
If you want continuous it is mysterious because who wants to pay that much for a hut they can not move without someone lifting the planet it is on?

[AmeVulpes]

27000 for at will.
if you want X (X<5) times a day it costs X*5400
If you want continuous it is mysterious because who wants to pay that much for a hut they can not move without someone lifting the planet it is on?

Thank you, I forgot that it doesn't move with you.

[Crake]

Yeah, personally I don't think DR would help against holy water any more than it would against falling damage...

Well... I mean... I allow DR to work against falling damage in my games.


I'm not sure about becoming waterproof, but you could try to evaporate all water before it comes in contact with you:
- Water boils at 212°F. According to Sandstorm 12, this falls within the "burning heat" category of temperature
- Walker in the Waste 3 gives you Local Drought, which raises the temperature in a 20-ft. radius of you by one category or to "hot", whichever is higher
- Darsson's Fiery Furnace (Shining South) is a 2nd level spell which rises the temperature in an area to "extreme heat" (which is two category away from burning heat). It can be made permanent in an area, but ideally you'd want to enchant a small heater or thurible so that you can bring it along.
- Control Temperature (Frostburn) can be used to furtherly increase temperature in an emanation around you by up to one category every 5 caster levels. It even lasts 1 hour/level, so you can just add it to your buff routine.

If you combine all three, you only need CL 5 to reach burning heat with control temperature and simply boil all water within 20 ft. from you. Without access to the aforementioned thurible of Darsson's fiery furnace, you'll need CL 20.

Just because the ambient temperature is 100 degrees (celcius, because we aren't savages here), doesn't mean the water will instantly vaporize upon entering the area, water has a very high thermal capacity, and thus takes a long time to heat up, there's a reason it takes time to boil in a pot despite the hotplate being well over 100. If you have a flask thrown at your face, you're definitely going to get a face full of holy water, even if it does evaporate pretty quickly.

[noob]

Thank you, I forgot that it doesn't move with you.

Do not worry it is not as if finding spells to protect yourself against climate is easy: wotc was very busy making spells that participates in fights and less for the other kinds of spells.
On the other hand if epic monsters are aviable there is one that can be gated in and with an epic sla that makes everything burn within a gigantic radius.

[Uncle Pine]

Just because the ambient temperature is 100 degrees (celcius, because we aren't savages here), doesn't mean the water will instantly vaporize upon entering the area, water has a very high thermal capacity, and thus takes a long time to heat up, there's a reason it takes time to boil in a pot despite the hotplate being well over 100. If you have a flask thrown at your face, you're definitely going to get a face full of holy water, even if it does evaporate pretty quickly.
In my defense, I have only used Fahrenheit because that's what Sandstorm refers to.

I also forgot rains exists and to consider the time necessary for water to actually boil. Moreover, while we could probably attempt to extrapolate the temperature one could reach with Darsson's fiery furnace + local drought + a CL 20 control temperature and see if it would be enough to vaporize water and how much water it could affect in a round, it's most likely unnecessary.

Stormwrack should have hazmat-like suits for diving purposes: that should fix water problems for a dry lich.

[AmeVulpes]

Just because the ambient temperature is 100 degrees (celcius, because we aren't savages here), doesn't mean the water will instantly vaporize upon entering the area, water has a very high thermal capacity, and thus takes a long time to heat up, there's a reason it takes time to boil in a pot despite the hotplate being well over 100. If you have a flask thrown at your face, you're definitely going to get a face full of holy water, even if it does evaporate pretty quickly.

But it is magic. The ambience around you, especially when it moves with you, could be argued to include bodies of water. A thrown flask, I'm not sure, as it would be an unattended object, and probably insulated. I would rule that it hits you and then poofs, after dealing holy water damage.

What would happen if water suddenly reached 100c, anyway? (I've always seen F in D&D, simply because that's what's in every sourcebook I've seen)

[tyckspoon]

What would happen if water suddenly reached 100c, anyway? (I've always seen F in D&D, simply because that's what's in every sourcebook I've seen)

It would begin to boil (transition to steam), same as when you heat it any other way. It would take much more energy/heat to cause any significant quantity of water to boil off instantly (or as close as makes no practical difference to the people caught in a flash steam cloud) - if you simply set the temperature of some water to 100 degrees and then stop further heating it, it will very rapidly fall under 100 degrees as the first water to transition to steam carries away heat from the still-liquid water.

Edit: The actual specific result will depend on a really large number of factors, but probably the most significant is the individual size of the water droplets - the smaller the drops, the greater the exposed surface area, and the more water is actually exposed to the high temperatures, the faster and more completely the water will convert to steam. A large blob of water will boil off its surface and then just hit something as a stream/puddle/whatever of scalding water, while a finely aerosolized spray may just poof into steam and waft away. Kind of the reverse of the boiling water stunt that was popular during the recent freeze in the US, where you fling a pot of boiling water into the air and the spray comes back down as frozen snow.. unless you didn't sling it right and just end up pouring out the water, in which case it's still dangerously hot and you get a million views on your 'Boiling Snow Challenge FAIL!!' video.

[Thurbane]

Not sure if any of this helps, but here's some things I turned up in that might relate to holy water damage being or not being positive energy damage:


A reanimated creature is not undead, and cannot be turned, harmed by positive energy or holy water, or healed by negative energy.


This transmutation imbues a flask (1 pint) of water with positive energy, turning it into holy water. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWater.htm)


By expending a daily turn undead attempt, you can infuse the water around you with positive energy, which has the same effect as holy water

..however, this seems to be the most telling:


Harmed by Positive Energy: A kir-lanan suffers damage from cure wounds spells, holy water, and blessed weapons just as if she were undead