View Full Version : So what is the Oracle's plan here? Save the world or don't bother?
Particle_Man
2019-02-14, 12:28 AM
I assume that the Oracle could see that the world is in danger of being destroyed. Does the Oracle care? Dying sucks, but there at least is an afterlife. If the Oracle wants to live (and thus wants the world to continue to exist) does the Oracle have ways to influence that? Perhaps by helping the Order of the Stick, the protagonists in this whole Save the World business?
Just wondering.
Aveline
2019-02-14, 12:39 AM
The Oracle has read all the book publications and knows the Order will save the world and improve conditions for everyone.
Presumably the Oracle has also seen that he will do nothing about the matter.
Edit: Love your username by the way. Doing the things a particle can.
Peelee
2019-02-14, 12:39 AM
I assume that the Oracle could see that the world is in danger of being destroyed. Does the Oracle care? Dying sucks, but there at least is an afterlife. If the Oracle wants to live (and thus wants the world to continue to exist) does the Oracle have ways to influence that? Perhaps by helping the Order of the Stick, the protagonists in this whole Save the World business?
Just wondering.
He could help by giving the protagonists prophecies in exchange for payment.
Emanick
2019-02-14, 01:28 AM
The Oracle knows everything will be fine (under a rather loose definition of "everything," granted). I imagine that he might have been willing to help the Order more if he thought that he could make the difference between the world ending and not ending, but since that probably isn't the case, he was content to behave the way he did.
Aveline
2019-02-14, 01:38 AM
The Oracle is not an agent; he is a phenomenon, and an existential quandary.
The Pilgrim
2019-02-14, 01:54 AM
He could help by giving the protagonists prophecies in exchange for payment.
And could help further by not (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) giving the antagonists prophecies in exchange for money.
D.One
2019-02-14, 05:20 AM
He gave Belkar a prophecy that made Belkar kill the Oracle, thus activating the Mark of Justice, and to get rid of the curse, Belkar had to become a more productive party member.
If making Belkar a productive party member isn't helping, I don't know what else can be called helping. :smallwink:
OTOH, this thread got me thinking. The Oracle is an agent of a goddess, Tiamat, who had (supposedly) been involved in trying to bring the Dark One to help sealing the Snarl. Maybe, the same way Odin has put the pieces in the right places by giving Durkon's prophecy, Tiamat is acting through the Oracle to help things happen the way they should do.
factotum
2019-02-14, 07:06 AM
Given what we know of Goblin Dan's all-you-can-eat hydra buffet, we know the world won't be destroyed, at least before said Goblin Dan is old and grey--and even as short lived as goblins are, that's probably 20 years at least. The Oracle knows this as well, so he knows the world doesn't end here too. Therefore, why does he need to do anything more than he's already doing?
martianmister
2019-02-14, 09:16 AM
He already know the outcome, so...
luagha
2019-02-14, 01:41 PM
The Oracle is not an agent; he is a phenomenon, and an existential quandary.
The Oracle is a Gollux, and not a mere device!
Resileaf
2019-02-14, 01:55 PM
If the world was going to be destroyed, he'd just pay someone to plane shift him somewhere else.
The Oracle is a Gollux, and not a mere device!
"You resemble one," said Xorn.
"I resemble only half the things I say I don't. The other half... resemble me."
.
.
I've encountered very few people who know Thurber's "Thirteen Clocks."
MartianInvader
2019-02-14, 03:06 PM
He could help by giving the protagonists prophecies in exchange for payment.
"I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I'm doing."
D.One
2019-02-14, 03:27 PM
He could help by giving the protagonists prophecies in exchange for payment.
"I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I'm doing."
I believe Peelee is refering to this (panel 7) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1146.html).
Peelee
2019-02-14, 03:28 PM
I believe Peelee is refering to this (panel 7) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1146.html).
.....yeeeees, I'm totally referring to both of them, and absolutely didn't luck into that Thor one. Totally planned.
D.One
2019-02-14, 03:45 PM
.....yeeeees, I'm totally referring to both of them, and absolutely didn't luck into that Thor one. Totally planned.
Well, lucky you :smallbiggrin:
Synesthesy
2019-02-14, 03:48 PM
OTOH, this thread got me thinking. The Oracle is an agent of a goddess, Tiamat, who had (supposedly) been involved in trying to bring the Dark One to help sealing the Snarl. Maybe, the same way Odin has put the pieces in the right places by giving Durkon's prophecy, Tiamat is acting through the Oracle to help things happen the way they should do.
We don't know this. We know Loki did, but we don't know about Tiamat. Instead, we know that
Tiamat is the God that DOESN'T want the Dark One to know about the Snarl
so maybe Tiamat is actually working for the destruction of the world (remember that the majority of Western Pantheon voted yes), and maybe Tiamat is working against the Dark One too. Maybe he's working against the idea that the Dark One help saving the world.
Oh, and remember that Tiamat does business with the IFCC, who may be involved with the Snarl in the last book.
Maybe the Oracle said something against our heroes, maybe because on something Tiamat lies to him. Maybe the Order will need Belkar to save the world, so the Oracle told Roy that Belkar will die to make sure that Roy won't save him. Only that Roy saves him, and Belkar doesn't die and the world will be safe!
Seriously, I think that the Oracle will fail sooner or later. Everyone seems to be sure that he won't, but this is my own bet.
Seriously, I think that the Oracle will fail sooner or later. Everyone seems to be sure that he won't, but this is my own bet.
Why do you think that? Also, the only outstanding prophecy the Oracle could fail at is Elan getting a happy ending.
Peelee
2019-02-14, 05:35 PM
Seriously, I think that the Oracle will fail sooner or later. Everyone seems to be sure that he won't, but this is my own bet.
Imean, dude has the books, so I'd be pretty surprised, to say the least.
thereaper
2019-02-14, 09:47 PM
The Oracle hasn't bothered to look that far ahead.
Grey_Wolf_c
2019-02-14, 09:58 PM
The Oracle hasn't bothered to look that far ahead.
I like to think he can only look into the future on real time, so he can only look so often or for so long, lest he stops living in the present.
Grey Wolf
Why do you think that? Also, the only outstanding prophecy the Oracle could fail at is Elan getting a happy ending.
I really, really hate to point this out, but...
...theoretically speaking, Belkar could survive past the end of the year. If Rich was the kind of author to randomly do "and now I have a prophecy not come true because screw prophecies," which he is, of course, not.
I really, really hate to point this out, but...
...theoretically speaking, Belkar could survive past the end of the year. If Rich was the kind of author to randomly do "and now I have a prophecy not come true because screw prophecies," which he is, of course, not.
Ah, of course. I ran down the list of the questions each member of the Order asked the Oracle, and so I just remembered that Belkar did in fact kill someone on his list.
Peelee
2019-02-14, 10:56 PM
I really, really hate to point this out, but...
...theoretically speaking, Belkar could survive past the end of the year. If Rich was the kind of author to randomly do "and now I have a prophecy not come true because screw prophecies," which he is, of course, not.
You could have gone for the druid, but noooooooo.
Mightymosy
2019-02-17, 04:06 AM
Or Blackwing, for that matter......
theMycon
2019-02-17, 08:02 PM
I've encountered very few people who know Thurber's "Thirteen Clocks."
It's my dog's favorite bedtime story, so I could probably recite most of it from memory if you gave me an hour and some change.
He growls along to the cold Duke, because I used to make my voice sound like an iron dropped on velvet.
The Oracle hasn't bothered to look that far ahead.
I like to think that he can only see the things he looks at.
And in a world of millions of people, where each person may have infinite possible futures, he never really has a chance to look at most of it.
It's my dog's favorite bedtime story, so I could probably recite most of it from memory if you gave me an hour and some change.
He growls along to the cold Duke, because I used to make my voice sound like an iron dropped on velvet.
Hark, hark, the dogs do bark,
But only one in three.
They bark at those in velvet gowns;
they never bark at me.
Goblin_Priest
2019-02-19, 02:50 PM
He gave Belkar a prophecy that made Belkar kill the Oracle, thus activating the Mark of Justice, and to get rid of the curse, Belkar had to become a more productive party member.
If making Belkar a productive party member isn't helping, I don't know what else can be called helping. :smallwink:
OTOH, this thread got me thinking. The Oracle is an agent of a goddess, Tiamat, who had (supposedly) been involved in trying to bring the Dark One to help sealing the Snarl. Maybe, the same way Odin has put the pieces in the right places by giving Durkon's prophecy, Tiamat is acting through the Oracle to help things happen the way they should do.
Belkar was stabbing enemies to death before.
Now, Belkar stabs enemies to death.
I don't really see much impact. ;)
Papa_Hewi
2019-02-19, 03:43 PM
Belkar was stabbing enemies to death before.
Now, Belkar stabs enemies to death.
I don't really see much impact. ;)
But he's only stabbing enemies to death now. Heck, the only party member he's shown hostility towards is Durkula, and that was for the right reasons.
As far as The Oracle goes, if he does have a plan to save the world it's a pretty obvious one. It amounts to ''Let the heroes save the world'' What new information can he provide that the heroes aren't going to find out for themselves when the time comes?
Peelee
2019-02-19, 03:52 PM
But he's only stabbing enemies to death now. Heck, the only party member he's shown hostility towards is Durkula, and that was for the right reasons.
I'd hate to imagine what you consider hostility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1015.html), if he's no longer hostile to other party members.
theMycon
2019-02-19, 09:18 PM
I'd hate to imagine what you consider hostility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1015.html), if he's no longer hostile to other party members.
"How did you know I was an only child?"
Goblin_Priest
2019-02-20, 02:20 PM
But he's only stabbing enemies to death now. Heck, the only party member he's shown hostility towards is Durkula, and that was for the right reasons.
As far as The Oracle goes, if he does have a plan to save the world it's a pretty obvious one. It amounts to ''Let the heroes save the world'' What new information can he provide that the heroes aren't going to find out for themselves when the time comes?
He rarely stabbed non-enemies. Sure, some of those stabbings had serious repercussions, but still. ;)
And despite his change helping his outlook, such as towards Durkula, it still proved irrelevant in the end, at least so far.
Not saying it will never be meaningful, I just don't think it's yet to have an impact on their mission. :P
Sigako
2019-02-21, 08:30 AM
His soul will be saved by Tiamat if the world is destroyed by gods, so it's win-win for him, though saving the world is more preferrable to him.
The only outcome he wouldn't like is Snarl running amok, destroying all mortal souls or endagering gods, that's why he doesn't help Xykon and Team Evil even for the money.
Peelee
2019-02-21, 08:58 AM
His soul will be saved by Tiamat if the world is destroyed by gods, so it's win-win for him, though saving the world is more preferrable to him.
The only outcome he wouldn't like is Snarl running amok, destroying all mortal souls or endagering gods, that's why he doesn't help Xykon and Team Evil even for the money.
A.) Saved from what? Oracle's not a dwarf, his soul follows norm guidelines so far as we know.
2.) Oracle would rather be alive than dead, as evidenced by him setting up raises for every time he dies. Ergo being dead because the world ended is not a win for him.
denthor
2019-02-22, 12:12 PM
What year is it in comic?
The Oracle is scheduled to be raised again March 28, 1187 as stated in comic 571
Fyraltari
2019-02-22, 12:18 PM
What year is it in comic?
The Oracle is scheduled to be raised again March 28, 1187 as stated in comic 571
I think it’s the tail end of 1186. I don’t remember the strip that states it but I remember using it and that strip to argue that since the world will still be there months after Belkar’s death then it’s probably not going to be destroyed.
Resileaf
2019-02-22, 12:23 PM
What year is it in comic?
The Oracle is scheduled to be raised again March 28, 1187 as stated in comic 571
Assuming the calendar in 489 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html) ends at the current date, which I am not certain because the 1184 part seems too small to be close to the end of the year, we would be in December 1184.
Otherwise, if the Oracle's next raise is scheduled next year, we would be in December 1186.
Emanick
2019-02-22, 12:30 PM
Assuming the calendar in 489 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html) ends at the current date, which I am not certain because the 1184 part seems too small to be close to the end of the year, we would be in December 1184.
Otherwise, if the Oracle's next raise is scheduled next year, we would be in December 1186.
It was close to the beginning of the year back when that strip came out, though. So everything fits.
It may actually be January 1185 by now, since Belkar’s prophecy was given in the Southern Lands, which has a New Year that begins several weeks after the Northern one (rather like China in real life - in fact, quite possibly exactly like China in real life, with literally no differences). I think there might be a quote by The Giant that clarifies which calendar the prophecy was using, but I don’t remember for sure.
Peelee
2019-02-22, 12:30 PM
I think it’s the tail end of 1186. I don’t remember the strip that states it but I remember using it and that strip to argue that since the world will still be there months after Belkar’s death then it’s probably not going to be destroyed.
Gobbotopia was founded in 1184 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html) and is nearly a year old. Given that I don't think six weeks elapsed between the new year celebration and the Battle of Azure City, I would say its the tail end of 1184.
ETA:
It was close to the beginning of the year back when that strip came out, though. So everything fits.
It may actually be January 1185 by now, since Belkar’s prophecy was given in the Southern Lands, which has a New Year that begins several weeks after the Northern one (rather like China in real life - in fact, quite possibly exactly like China in real life, with literally no differences). I think there might be a quote by The Giant that clarifies which calendar the prophecy was using, but I don’t remember for sure.
The Sunken Valley is in the Southern continent, so the Oracle would use the Southern calendar.
Double ETA: Founded in late 1184, which means it must be 1185 now. I can't read.
Jasdoif
2019-02-22, 12:38 PM
I think there might be a quote by The Giant that clarifies which calendar the prophecy was using, but I don’t remember for sure.There was.
1.) Everything that references a year number "1183" or "1184" is using the Northern calendar. The Southern calendar has a different year attached, but I have avoided using it to keep from confusing casual readers (e.g. anyone not posting on this thread).
2.) The Oracle is using the Southern calendar in his prediction to Roy. Meaning that the "seven weeks" Roy talks about is the time until the new New Year, exactly one year from the celebration seen back in Azure City.
3.) All other references are to relative time...no matter which calendar Redcloak uses, a year is a year, and during the Gobbotopia scenes he announced that it was six years until the one-year-anniversary of the battle. Since the battle took place about a week after the New Year, that means two weeks have passed since Roy's "seven weeks" comment--a few days to travel to Sandsedge, a week spent searching the desert, and a few days looking around the cities on the continent.
4.) The chart the deva shows should not be taken too literally. I didn't necessarily consult all possible references on how much time had passed when I drew it. I fudged it.
5.) Likewise, the "Eight months ago..." box in the bonus strip in Don't Split the Party is absolutely wrong; it should be more like ten months and some change. I think. I may still be getting it wrong."six years until the one-year-anniversary" is sic and/or wrong.
nmphuong91
2019-02-23, 04:31 PM
I agree that he already know that the world will be saved (or not). But, for the record, he also tried to help the Order in 331 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) without success.
What do you think? He suddenly warm up to the party (despite clearly holding a grudge over their last encounter), or it's just on a whim? Or he is trying to change the future toward his liking?
Fyraltari
2019-02-23, 04:46 PM
I agree that he already know that the world will be saved (or not). But, for the record, he also tried to help the Order in 331 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) without success.
What do you think? He suddenly warm up to the party (despite clearly holding a grudge over their last encounter), or it's just on a whim? Or he is trying to change the future toward his liking?
He wants Roy to realize what happened for a fleeting moment before the memory charm acts.
Actually, I think he has to actively make a choice to look to know the future. So he knows each of his deaths because he looked so he could set up resurrection, he knows how Belkar will die because he checked on all of his murderers and he knows the world won’t end. But he doesn’t know all the steps leading to that.
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