February's Unearthed Arcana: Artificer. WhyIsItNotOutYet!?! >:C

[Arkhios]

Ok, I heard somewhere that Seattle was struck by some snow and the whole place was thrown into chaos, the world ended, and what not, but is there any information as to when we might be able to expect the release?

Seriously (not), unless the snow's like 1m 3 ft. high or more, it's a ridiculous excuse to not go to work. Around here we can manage in way more than that just fine. :smallamused:

[ProsecutorGodot]

Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?580701-Questions-about-the-Artificer) a thread about this already.

Long story short, the latter half of the month. No exact date set.

[JackPhoenix]

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1095138051993423872

[Arkhios]

Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?580701-Questions-about-the-Artificer) a thread about this already.

Long story short, the latter half of the month. No exact date set.

I've been neck-deep in our 3.5 campaign lately so naturally I haven't seen that thread (since it has already been buried under more recent posts and is not on the first page of the forum :smallbiggrin:). If it had been released, I bet it would still be actively discussed and on the first page, if not on top of it.

That said, even knowing that we can expect it on the last week of february is enough for me. :smallsmile:

[nickl_2000]

I've been neck-deep in our 3.5 campaign lately so naturally I haven't seen that thread (since it has already been buried under more recent posts and is not on the first page of the forum :smallbiggrin:). If it had been released, I bet it would still be actively discussed complained about and on the first page, if not on top of it.

That said, even knowing that we can expect it on the last week of february is enough for me. :smallsmile:

There, I fixed a typo in that post for you.

[Zanthy1]

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1095138051993423872

In case you didn't click this convenient link, it says it's not coming until the last week of February.

[Arkhios]

There, I fixed a typo in that post for you.

Pfft... I just wanted to convey an optimistic view :smallbiggrin:


I've been neck-deep in our 3.5 campaign lately so naturally I haven't seen that thread (since it has already been buried under more recent posts and is not on the first page of the forum :smallbiggrin:). If it had been released, I bet it would still be actively discussed and on the first page, if not on top of it.

That said, even knowing that we can expect it on the last week of february is enough for me. :smallsmile:


In case you didn't click this convenient link, it says it's not coming until the last week of February.

FYI; I did. Look up. :smallamused:

[NaughtyTiger]

If anyone is gonna fix a typo, fix the glaring one..


Seriously, unless the snow's like 1 m 3 ft high or more, it's a ridiculous excuse to not go to work.

[Kadesh]

If anyone is gonna fix a typo, fix the glaring one..

But then it's wrong. 1m is 1m. 3ft is a rough equivalent, but it's not a typo. Get learned.

[Arkhios]

If anyone is gonna fix a typo, fix the glaring one..


But then it's wrong. 1m is 1m. 3ft is a rough equivalent, but it's not a typo. Get learned.

Granted, since the forum is about D&D the fix was appropriate, although not accurate.

[Jama7301]

In Minnesota, where we are accustomed to snow, places start shutting down at over a foot of snow, if it falls in the same storm. If it's spread out over like, a week, it doesn't cause as much harm, due to the normal clearing of the roads and such, but a sudden, ongoing storm can make roads incredibly unsafe when visibility starts tanking. If the city isn't equipped for heavy snow and especially the ice, it can also take longer to clear roads, signs, lights, etc.

Also, snow is heavy. The roof of our American Football stadium collapsed a few years ago during a heavy snowstorm. Better safe than sorry.

[Sigreid]

In Minnesota, where we are accustomed to snow, places start shutting down at over a foot of snow, if it falls in the same storm. If it's spread out over like, a week, it doesn't cause as much harm, due to the normal clearing of the roads and such, but a sudden, ongoing storm can make roads incredibly unsafe when visibility starts tanking. If the city isn't equipped for heavy snow and especially the ice, it can also take longer to clear roads, signs, lights, etc.

Also, snow is heavy. The roof of our American Football stadium collapsed a few years ago during a heavy snowstorm. Better safe than sorry.

You're right. And here in the Seattle area we both dont get enough snow to justify being prepared for a major storm and have a lot of people who have little experience driving in it.

[Arkhios]

In Minnesota, where we are accustomed to snow, places start shutting down at over a foot of snow, if it falls in the same storm. If it's spread out over like, a week, it doesn't cause as much harm, due to the normal clearing of the roads and such, but a sudden, ongoing storm can make roads incredibly unsafe when visibility starts tanking. If the city isn't equipped for heavy snow and especially the ice, it can also take longer to clear roads, signs, lights, etc.

Also, snow is heavy. The roof of our American Football stadium collapsed a few years ago during a heavy snowstorm. Better safe than sorry.

You're right. And here in the Seattle area we both dont get enough snow to justify being prepared for a major storm and have a lot of people who have little experience driving in it.


Since it apparently wasn't obvious, I wasn't being entirely serious about the complaint. :smalltongue:

Obviously, I understand people around there aren't as accustomed to winter than us here up North, near the polar circle, where winters are long and summers very brief in comparison.

If it helps, I'll edit the OP to better convey my intent.

[Sigreid]

Since it apparently wasn't obvious, I wasn't being entirely serious about the complaint. :smalltongue:

Obviously, I understand people around there aren't as accustomed to winter than us here up North, near the polar circle, where winters are long and summers very brief in comparison.

If it helps, I'll edit the OP to better convey my intent.

It was obvious but you gave is an excuse to complain about the weather and other drivers. Who doesn't like to complain about the weather and other drivers? 😃

[Arkhios]

It was obvious but you gave is an excuse to complain about the weather and other drivers. Who doesn't like to complain about the weather and other drivers? 😃

True! I admit I'm doing that almost daily during winter, as it seems even my own countrymen don't know how to drive. During winter OR at all. Every. Damn. Year. Someone breaks their car because of their driving skills, or lack thereof. 😂


Besides that, what else do you need but a chair, a computer, a keyboard, and maybe a mouse to do some game designing? Or simply pen and paper (with or without dice)? Can't they work at home from across the internet? 😉

[Tetrasodium]

It is being delayed another week or two, but is still supposed to be out this month. I suspect that the reason is so that it can be released alongside across eberron (https://acrosseberron.com/2019/02/12/introducing-across-eberron/) and I hope morgraves misc as well.

[Sigreid]

True! I admit I'm doing that almost daily during winter, as it seems even my own countrymen don't know how to drive. During winter OR at all. Every. Damn. Year. Someone breaks their car because of their driving skills, or lack thereof. 😂


Besides that, what else do you need but a chair, a computer, a keyboard, and maybe a mouse to do some game designing? Or simply pen and paper (with or without dice)? Can't they work at home from across the internet? 😉

A good Scotch would help.

[jaappleton]

Yeah, due out the last week of February.

However... I have a suspicion that it might be ANY point in that week, not necessarily Monday. >_>

[Sigreid]

Yeah, due out the last week of February.

However... I have a suspicion that it might be ANY point in that week, not necessarily Monday. >_>

The delay might mean they intend to do it as right as they can and push it into the wayfinder's guide.

[Powerdork]

If anyone is gonna fix a typo, fix the glaring one..

Is it bad that all I can see when someone issues a correction like this is this video? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlyyu1Go4yU&t=6m35s)

[n00b]

The delay might mean they intend to do it as right as they can and push it into the wayfinder's guide.

I figure they are delaying it until the end of the month because it won't seem as bad when they delay it until the beginning of next month. And so on...


Edit for: blue

[jaappleton]

Yeah, due out the last week of February.

However... I have a suspicion that it might be ANY point in that week, not necessarily Monday. >_>

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1096527625294536704

Jeremy has confirmed to me it won't necessarily be the 25th, Monday. Could be anytime during that week.

[RustyArmor]

My own personal belief is they regret saying they are working on the artificer itself.
There is a fanboyism foaming at the mouth over artificers and making this class is like walking on a mine field.

Just from all the stuff I see people saying they want it to do, it would be a very very strong class. It will of course not have everything all these people want so it will be considered weak (by their standards) they will be screaming and waving the torches saying how wotc %$^ed it up once again.

So now, right at this minute there is one guy staring at a paper at his desk with a blank stare, wiping cold sweat from his face debating on how to make a class balanced enough to please a crowd that can rarely be pleased.

[jaappleton]

My own personal belief is they regret saying they are working on the artificer itself.
There is a fanboyism foaming at the mouth over artificers and making this class is like walking on a mine field.

Just from all the stuff I see people saying they want it to do, it would be a very very strong class. It will of course not have everything all these people want so it will be considered weak (by their standards) they will be screaming and waving the torches saying how wotc %$^ed it up once again.

So now, right at this minute there is one guy staring at a paper at his desk with a blank stare, wiping cold sweat from his face debating on how to make a class balanced enough to please a crowd that can rarely be pleased.

I agree on some points, and disagree on others.

Agree that they may regret putting a hard deadline on the class coming out February.

Disagree... a bit... About the class itself. IIRC, Eberron came out during 3.X, but my personal experience with it is limited to only 4E and beyond. And I adored the Artificer in 4E. Where they'll have trouble is in bringing all its mechanics to 5E. Some want it to be the class with a robot companion, like Beastmaster Ranger. Some want it to be a half caster with two attacks, capable of using a gun-like weapon. Some want it as the 'creator' style class.

Everyone has these expectations about what they want it to be. And the Artificer, lore-wise, is capable of encompassing almost all of it. Yet at the same time, the original design they put out for 5E UA two years ago was... Its design pigeonholed things. Not really capable of any sort of single target damage, almost purely AoE, 1/3rd caster with a companion. THAT is something I hated; it pigeonholed the play style. Which sucks, regardless of class.

I think if they manage to make it so you can play it how you want, it'll be a rousing success.

[JackPhoenix]

Just from all the stuff I see people saying they want it to do, it would be a very very strong class. It will of course not have everything all these people want so it will be considered weak (by their standards) they will be screaming and waving the torches saying how wotc %$^ed it up once again.

Disagree... a bit... About the class itself. IIRC, Eberron came out during 3.X, but my personal experience with it is limited to only 4E and beyond. And I adored the Artificer in 4E. Where they'll have trouble is in bringing all its mechanics to 5E. Some want it to be the class with a robot companion, like Beastmaster Ranger. Some want it to be a half caster with two attacks, capable of using a gun-like weapon. Some want it as the 'creator' style class.

Everyone has these expectations about what they want it to be. And the Artificer, lore-wise, is capable of encompassing almost all of it. Yet at the same time, the original design they put out for 5E UA two years ago was... Its design pigeonholed things. Not really capable of any sort of single target damage, almost purely AoE, 1/3rd caster with a companion. THAT is something I hated; it pigeonholed the play style. Which sucks, regardless of class.

I don't think people want it to do everything at once, and the subclass system is great for that. People want construct pets? Make pet subclass. People want more support style alchemist-type? Make alchemist subclass. People want guns? Tell them to go fuc... ahem....make gunner subclass. People want to go melee with magical cyborg? Make Renegade Mastermaker subclass. As long as the core feel of the class is right... someone who makes and uses magic items instead of relying on direct magic like casters... the subclasses can take care of specialized niches. Perhaps it will be full caster, perhaps it will be the legendary arcane half-caster, perhaps it'll be something akin to warlock with a lot of fiddly bits to play with and customize your playstyle (that would be ideal IMO), I don't think that really matters. And it's UA, things can always be balanced later, as long as the core class works... so far, we've got two totally different versions, and neither really managed that.

What won't happen is a class based on making permanent magic items. That's not the problem with artificer, but with the core of 5e that changed how the system deals with magic items. It was a change for the better, it makes SOME artificer concepts unviable, but it's not a great loss. Some people will still complain about that, but aiming that complaint at the artificer instead of the 5e itself is wrong.

[Arkhios]

My own personal belief is they regret saying they are working on the artificer itself.
There is a fanboyism foaming at the mouth over artificers and making this class is like walking on a mine field.

Just from all the stuff I see people saying they want it to do, it would be a very very strong class. It will of course not have everything all these people want so it will be considered weak (by their standards) they will be screaming and waving the torches saying how wotc %$^ed it up once again.

So now, right at this minute there is one guy staring at a paper at his desk with a blank stare, wiping cold sweat from his face debating on how to make a class balanced enough to please a crowd that can rarely be pleased.

That's, really, an awfully negative and even toxic point of view, if I may be blunt. Not all of us are complaining or hoping for the Artificer to be the Ultimate Class to overthrow every other classes in what they can do (in other words, to be OP).

In all honesty, I'd already be satisfied if the Artificer filled the niche that has been left unattended so far: Arcane (Intelligence) Half-Caster, which, in my opinion, is very likely to happen eventually - and the artificer has a good conceptual chassis for it. Not only because the biggest complaints about the previous version I heard/saw were related to that they were 1/3-casters.

What comes to the rest of the class features, I feel that the Gunsmith was a bit odd in a traditionally medieval fantasy environment. Even in Eberron it would feel out of place.

Mechanical companion might not be bad, if it wasn't a baseline feature for all artificers. Although, I wouldn't cry aloud if it was dropped entirely. Same goes with Gunsmith.

What I want the Artificer to be able to do is Infusions. Namely their iconic ability to add (even if only temporary) magical effects on equipment (note! not creatures). Maybe multiple items at a time, spread out to the whole party if needed. Similar to what the 3.X bard did with their performances: bestowed bonuses or other benefits to their allies OR penalties to their enemies. If 5e artificer were to accomplish this with spells, that's fine, though I'd like that they would also get a baseline - or at least unique to the class - ability that lets them do something that other classes with access to same spells couldn't.

All in all, I don't think I have unreasonable expectations for the Artificer, and honestly, I don't think the above basic concepts are overpowered in on themselves. It's the implementation of those concepts that is critical in that regard.

[ad_hoc]

My own personal belief is they regret saying they are working on the artificer itself.
There is a fanboyism foaming at the mouth over artificers and making this class is like walking on a mine field.

Just from all the stuff I see people saying they want it to do, it would be a very very strong class. It will of course not have everything all these people want so it will be considered weak (by their standards) they will be screaming and waving the torches saying how wotc %$^ed it up once again.

So now, right at this minute there is one guy staring at a paper at his desk with a blank stare, wiping cold sweat from his face debating on how to make a class balanced enough to please a crowd that can rarely be pleased.

I doubt they care that much about the vocal minority.

They try to please the die hard internet folks, of course, but I don't think they lose any sleep over their dissatisfaction.

[Unoriginal]

The class would *still* be in development even if they published it as an UA, anyway. It's just public playtest.