Vicious Mockery vs Frostbite- Which is better?

[sleepyhead]

I hear a lot of hype over Vicious Mockery for bards, but isn't frostbite better all around? It got a higher hit die of damage and has the same affect.
So why would I take Vicious Mockery?

[Frozenstep]

Constitution is usually considered a bad save to target, wisdom is usually a better target.

Cold damage isn't bad, but there are still a decent number of monsters that resist it. Psychic damage resistance is much rarer.

[Innocent_bystan]

Because it targets a better save (wis vs con), has a better damage type (psychic vs cold) and because yo mamma jokes.

[Asmotherion]

'cause Vicious Mockery is a Bard Cantrip and Frostbite isn't. And if there's any offensive cantrip worth your Secrets or a Multiclass that's Eldritch Blast.

And in a non Min/Max approach Vicious Mockery is incredibly fun to role play; insult or offend your opponent and they get psychic damage because of it. What's not to love?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I hear a lot of hype over Vicious Mockery for bards, but isn't frostbite better all around? It got a higher hit die of damage and has the same affect.
So why would I take Vicious Mockery?

What class are you? I think Vicious Mockery is unique to Bards but Frostbite belongs to a few others.

They also target different saves.

Go for whatever suits your character best, a couple pips on the dice, bleh.

[sophontteks]

Frostbite is significantly worse the mockery just for the fact that it targets con. Its so significant that I'd consider frostbite a bad cantrip and mockery a must-have.

Almost everything can make a con save. The fact that frostbite does more damage is meaningless when it doesn't ever stick.

[ChampionWiggles]

Like people have said before, targets on Con saves aren't the best the higher level you get. Mid to late character levels, almost everything has good enough con to pass the save, whether it has proficiency or not.

If you're doing a low-level campaign, I wouldn't say there's much problem in taking Frostbite, even though Vicious Mockery's target on Wisdom save is still better, it's not as obvious at low level. But honestly if your campaign is intending to go past lvl 5 or you intend to take the character past lvl 5, don't take it.

I wouldn't even take Frostbite if I were playing a class that wasn't a Bard, personally. Just take almost any other cantrip.

[MilkmanDanimal]

One other significant difference; Vicious Mockery inflicts disadvantage on the next attack, and Frostbite inflicts disadvantage on the next weapon attack. That is a highly significant difference between those two effects.

[Chronos]

The damage is not likely to be the reason you're casting either one. If you want damage, you'll use Toll the Dead, or (if sticking to the PHB) Firebolt. You're casting Vicious Mockery or Frostbite because you want to impose disadvantage on an attack, and the damage is just a nice little side effect.

And I don't know if Con is a more common good save overall, but then, you probably wouldn't be using either of these cantrips against all opponents, anyway. Imposing disadvantage on the next attack is a good thing, against an opponent who can't do anything but attack, but it won't matter against an opponent who's going to use spells or other abilities with saving throws. And creatures who just attack do tend to have good Con saves.

EDIT: I hadn't noticed that Frostbite specifies weapon attacks: That just makes the argument even stronger. An enemy spellcaster with a good Wis save (who would be more likely to fail against Frostbite) probably isn't using weapons at all, even if they're using attack rolls.