So What is your Ideal adventuring party?

[Awakeninfinity]

So I got to this idea in my head: What does my ideal adventuring party look like?" I thought about it and realized I think it would be



Fighter/Sor/Relevant PRC's (Me)
Cleric or Archivist
Wizard
A swift Hunter Ranger
Warblade or Crusader
A Wilder or Psychic Warrior


Which got me to thinking; what might people on the playground consider their ideal party?

Some rules

1.) I'm assuming that no GM would allow an entire party of all the same classes... So please don't... In fact let's limit to one doubling up on a class.

2.) You can stat them all up if you want; Let's say 32 point-buy; average+1 for hp.

3.) Must Include self in party (put an asterisk or "me" in parathensis after the class or character concept.

4.) Ideas for additional rules are welcome and will be considered.

[HouseRules]

The Final Fantasy Joke:

Fighter (Fighter) Knight (Knight)
Rogue (Thief) Ninja (Ninja) - Illegal to take variant class (applies to pathfinder only) (Me)
Monk (Black Belt) Monk (Monk)
Wizard (Black Mage) Wizard (Black Wizard)
Cleric (White Mage) Cleric (White Wizard)
Bard (Red Mage) Sublime Chord (Red Wizard)

Will elaborate later with edits.

[fallensavior]

So I got to this side in my head: What does my ideal adventuring party look like?"

Druid
Cleric
Wizard
Psion
Artificer
Archivist

[Crake]

Since my table almost exclusively plays with 3 PCs around the table, there's no real "ideal" party. I've also played practically every base class, and can't say I have an "ideal" class either. Every game is different, and there's never an "ideal" party, just what people enjoy playing.

I would say the closest thing to an "ideal" party would include at least the following roles:

Frontliner
Damage Dealer
Utility Caster
Party Face
Skill Monkey
Ranged Specialist (optional)

Obviously characters can incorporate more than one of those roles, and sometimes players will overlap in some roles, but if you can cover most of those, you should be good. How you cover them is less of an issue.

[RoboEmperor]

Cleric (me)
Druid
Wizard
Psion

or

Artificer (me)
Druid
Wizard
Cleric

and we all sling powerful shenanigans without worrying about making a mundane feel bad.

[Eldariel]

Ideal in what sense? The most powerful? The most typical? The most fun? 'cause power I can somewhat determine (Wizard/Druid/Cleric [Me]/Artificer would probably be my first "Take this from 1 to 20 and call it a day"-pick), but "fun" doesn't really depend on the other classes overtly much.

[Awakeninfinity]

Ideal in what sense? The most powerful? The most typical? The most fun? 'cause power I can somewhat determine (Wizard/Druid/Cleric [Me]/Artificer would probably be my first "Take this from 1 to 20 and call it a day"-pick), but "fun" doesn't really depend on the other classes overtly much.

The most fun; Ideally...

[Eldariel]

The most fun; Ideally...

Well, that's something I can't really measure. Different players use different classes to such different effect that it has a profound impact on the table and indeed, it would thus much depend on the players behind the characters. I could certainly have a lot of fun with said Wizard/Cleric/Artificer/Druid party but equally well I'd probably enjoy the hell out of a well-played Binder/Warblade/Incarnate/Wildshape Ranger or something more focused like a Rogue/Factotum/Beguiler/Cloistered Cleric. Really depends on the table: some tables can pull off a Monk/Sandwich/Beholder Mage/Pink Dinosaur party but that takes a lot (particularly maturity and system mastery) out of the players. Certainly not the norm but such a group could be awesome in the right circumstances. SilverClawShift's journals (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?116836-The-SilverClawShift-Campaign-Archives) have many features of the games I'd consider ideal, though I do also enjoy cutting loose with high powered options with a sufficiently savvy GM.

[lylsyly]

Scout 3/Mystic Ranger 17 [swift hunter] (me)
Barbarian/Champion of Gwynhaarf (did I actually spell it right that time ;D) (or me)
Cleric/Crusader/RKV
Psychic Rogue (are there any good PRCs?)
Woezard/Good PRCs/Archmage (yeah, Woezard, don't want to be on his bad side ;D)
Bard/Sublime Chord

[Eldariel]

Barbarian/Champion of Gwynhaarf (did I actually spell it right that time ;D) (or me)

Gwynharwyf, so pretty close.


Psychic Rogue (are there any good PRCs?)

Few enough, Psionics is really short on PRCs as it stands and Psychic Rogue has a pretty solid scaling with the powers, sneak attack and special abilities with a lot of skill points, which is not easily replicated. Much like with standard Rogue, it's hard to find a PRC that offers all of those so, as all PRCs should be, it's always a trade-off. PRCs that are pure improvements are emblematic of poor design; PRCs should offer specialisation, not power.

[Darth Ultron]

Anything the player wants to play?

[Eladrinblade]

human scout/transmuter/swiftblade (me)
human bard/cloistered cleric of lirr
dwarf fighter/cloistered cleric of thor (sue me)

all partial gestalt

[Hackulator]

3-4 players and a DM who are funny and I enjoy hanging out with. I don't really care about class comp.

[RoboEmperor]

3-4 players and a DM who are funny and I enjoy hanging out with. I don't really care about class comp.

I'd like to change my answer to this.

[Awakeninfinity]

Anything the player wants to play?

I mean like if your group asked you what to play or if they agreed to play something you wrote up for them.

[Hackulator]

I'd like to change my answer to this.

I'd like to say that it makes me happy that even though we have had some bordering-on-acrimonious arguments about game mechanics we can both agree on the most important thing for making the game fun.

[Darth Ultron]

I mean like if your group asked you what to play or if they agreed to play something you wrote up for them.

Well....again, anything.

[Maat Mons]

Okay, let's take the "standard" 4-man team (fighter, cleric, rogue, wizard), and adapt it to different tiers.

Tier 1
Druid (role: fighter)
Cleric (role cleric)
Cloistered Cleric with Kobold domain (role: rogue)
Wizard (role: wizard)

Tier 2
Favored Soul (role: fighter)
Favored Soul (role: cleric)
Mystic with Kobold Domain (role: rogue)
Sorcerer (role: wizard)

Tier 3
Crusader (role: fighter)
Shugenja? (role: cleric)
Beguiler (role: rogue)
Warlock (role: wizard)

Tier 4
Barbarian (role: fighter)
Adept (role: cleric)
Rogue (role: rogue)
Shadowcaster? (role: wizard)

Tier 5
Fighter (role: fighter)
Divine Mind (role: cleric)
Mountebank (role: rogue)
Magewright (role: wizard)

[maruahm]

One druid and three monks.

This is the ideal adventuring party. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

[Arcanist]

I have played a very drunk game where we were all Mindflayers trying to convince the only sober guy in the room (the DM), that Cerebromorphosis was a totally legitimate way of becoming immortal.

My ideal adventuring party is one where me and my friends can have a good time. Sober? Ehhh... Probably the standard 5 (fighter, cleric, wizard/sorcerer, rogue, bard).

[Quertus]

3-4 players and a DM who are funny and I enjoy hanging out with. I don't really care about class comp.

Mostly this. But, personally, I'd prefer around 14 players, many of whom can and will GM. And - very important - all of them know how to take their turns quickly. No 15-minute combat rounds, please. :smallyuk:

Everyone having the option to play multiple PCs simultaneously is an added bonus.

Lastly, my ideal scenario involves lots of one-shots, with me playing a known character (minimum one I've grown comfortable with during said one-shots) for any longer adventures or campaigns.

-----

In general, my "classic" party looks very much like The Hobbit:

Double-digit Fighters

One rogue

and me, playing a Wizard.

I'd love to play in the "all-Wizard" party once. I guess I'll take "all casters" as the closest substitute.

I'd also love the opportunity to play at "Tippy's tables"; ie, somewhere where i could play a competent Wizard without completely overshadowing the rest of the party.

And, I'm not quite sure where to put this, but, if I find a character I like, I'd love to play them for at least 20 levels. So, playing from 20th to 40th would be a good stretch. :smallwink:

[AmeVulpes]

As DM, I severely dislike lopsided parties. Two rogues? Properly played, they wipe everything that is vulnerable to sneak attacks... and not much else, if they muck it. Four casters? They laugh at everything- until they're all suddenly dead.

My ideal party:

One or two front-liners (fighter, barb, paladin, ranger on the outside)
^in the case of two front-liners, one should be at least competent at archery
A talker (bard, rogue, or, get this, ranger)
A healer (cleric, usually. Of course. Rangers can do it poorly, though)
A mage focused on either blasting or utility, but almost always equipped with a ranged weapon (elf of some sort for easy longbow)

I usually stick in a DMPC for balance due to low player count, and I usually end up as said mage.

[Malroth]

1 Shaper Psion
1 Egoist Psion
1 Telepath Psion
1 Seer Psion

Fusion + Astral Seed

[Jon_Dahl]

The most fun; Ideally...

Rogue #1.
Rogue #2.

[Yogibear41]

3-4 Competent Players playing an optimized but not broken version of more or less whatever they want as long as it in someway can cover the roles of Fighter/Cleric/Rogue/Wizard.

People who actually know how to play Evil alignments without being jerks or psychopaths is nice too.

[Unavenger]

Anything the player wants to play?

I don't often agree with Darth Ultron, but when I do...

[fireborn6074]

these are for a DnD 3.5e game that i am in. all are decent
a rogue specializing in diplomacy
a paladin specializing in support
a fighter specializing in tanking
a sorcerer focusing in buffing and task magic
a psionic focusing in railgunning. because who doesnt wwant 37D10s of damage at level 5. btw, that'd be me. also, i'm a minmaxer piece of trash. at level 20, thats 393D10's psychic damage and a DC 212 will save

[Elricaltovilla]

1 Zealot
1 Warlord
1 Medic
1 Stalker
1 Mystic

This party layers stacking buff abilities onto each other, has a wide breadth of skills available, can go for long periods of time without rest, has access to crafting and has all necessary combat roles covered at least twice over. With discipline swapping available, you can have an incredible variety of maneuvers that should let you all overcome any obstacles you might encounter. In addition, each class sits comfortably in tier 3, with only the mystic brushing tier 2 territory via crafting shenanigans.



1 Psychic Warrior
1 Tactician
1 Vitalist
1 Psion, Shaper
1 Soulknife

The Vitalist provides excellent healing ability, Tactician gives strong leadership and buffing ability. Psychic warriors make good tanks and the Soulknife can provide incredible DPR of the melee or ranged variety depending on archetype. Shaper psions provide utility and power in one nice package, especially with their buffed astral constructs. You have 3 full manifesters in your party, and everyone can get extra action economy from psicrystal.



4-5 Aegis (Aegii? Aegises? Idk)

I feel very confident in saying that the Aegis class is the most versatile tier 3 class in Pathfinder. With all the splat support it gets, an aegis can use initiating, akasha, and manifesting (via powerstones) on top of their own incredible abilities which include: just about any movement mode, all sorts of senses, variable immunities, extra stat buffs, built in weapons and armor, broad skill lists with a mild INT focus, and the capability to change these abilities out daily. Aegises can fight, heal, tank, scout, craft, and face as necessary from day to day as needed.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Gonna borrow from 4e and say you want a defender (takes/prevents damage), a striker (dishes out damage), a controller (AOE, debuffs, controlling the battlefield), and a leader (buffing and healing), spread out as you choose between your characters.

Alternatively, just two characters: Dread Necromancer/Dread Witch and Bard/Crusader/War Chanter, for creating an army of minions and making them terrifying respectively, with character also hitting several secondary roles and also being individually very competent in battle.

[Jay R]

My approach is so different from everybody else's, that it's either worthless or a valuable new perspective.

1. Character played by somebody who knows the system extremely well, can find a rule quickly, but doesn’t get annoyed when the DM rules against his interpretation.

2. Character run by a player who really loves fantasy, who gets deeply into character, and whose mood is infectious.

3. Martial character run by person with a good sense of tactics and who loves mock battle.

4. Party face run by a player who is good at talking, fun to listen to, and always in character.

5. Character run by skeptic who questions the party’s plan, points out flaws, but doesn’t push for endless argument.

6. Character played by new role-player, for whom it is all still shiny and glorious, who reacts to a vampire or chimera with awe and excitement, rather than rules-driven tactics.

7. Character played by me, in the best game ever.

[rel]

An ideal 3.5 adventuring party needs to be able to deal with the major challenges.

preventing damage - Tanking and healing don't work in 3.5 so that leaves battlefield control and debuffs

spotting - hidden monsters and traps can ruin your day, esoteric vision modes reveal monsters while traps require trapfinding and a good search bonus. secret doors can generally be covered by detect secret doors plus the aforementioned good search bonus. At high levels this can be handled entirely or almost entirely with items.

utility - manipulating the dungeon, dealing with the esoteric and creative problem solving. equipment and planning can help but at the end of the day you need magic and as broad a selection as possible.

divine power - due to the existence of effects that can only be cured by clerical spells and sometimes don't even allow a saving throw you need a cleric Not for HP healing (you have wands to do that. after the fight.) but to counter and mitigate all the sundry debuffs the GM throws at you.

Then there are the minor challenges, these are either non-essential or just really easy to get. You don't need to supply these and theys should never be a characters only job.

Talking - someone should be good enough at this but not *that* good. First, the DC's are low and it is easy to get good enough.
Second, the GM is probably going to house rule social interaction without even telling you.
Oh sure, the rules allow you to use bluff to trick the king into giving you a fortune for a bolt of 'invisible cloth' and it is even well supported by fiction and source material as something a trickster should do. But good luck finding a GM who lets you get past even a level 1 guard by rolling bluff, diplomacy or intimidate.

damage dealing - at some point damage must be dealt but dealing damage is REALLY easy. There are buffs, summons, hirelings, options upon options.
At the end of the day, Steve the str 15 warrior hired from the tavern for 1gp per day and given a spare greatsword can probably handle your damage dealing duties until level 5.

crafting - this is actually very usefull BUT if the GM isn't giving you access to magic item merchants they probably aren't giving you access to the time required to craft either.
And if the GM is actually watching WBL and arbitrarily preventing any extra curricular money making then they will probably reduce your treasure to compensate for your cheaper magic items.
Basically, the use of crafting comes down to your game and your GM and it doesn't lead to fun in the dungeon for the player investing in it.

So, this is what a party needs to achieve. The next question is how to get there.

The best group for achieving the above that I've seen in actual play was the following:
Druid, Druid, Cleric, Wizard
An artificer would have made a solid choice for 5th party member if there had been 5 players.

This was a highly optimised and well played party, regularly taking on challenges way over their level and holding their own even at level 1 or when forced to handle obnoxious numbers of encounters in a single adventuring day.

That said, if your party can address each of the major requirements with at least 2 characters (yes people can have multiple roles) you will do well and if you can also hit the minor ones you will do great.

[Powerdork]

There isn't a 'me' because I would gladly play either of these characters.

- The Bodyguard, a buff "duskblade" (elf psychic warrior/wizard with an emphasis on Still Spell) that examines arcane lore and beats skeletons to dust.

- The Protected, a lumbering hulk of metal (be it a warforged with a Body feat or an atstreidi) that's found a spot as a church archaeologist (or private entity with incentive to hire an adventurer and dungeon delve), and is some manner of spontaneous non-arcane spellcaster, a favoured soul or occultist or something (but not an oracle, there is no curse creation guide and the presented ones suck). Emphasis on magic item creation and use, to make up for a spontaneous caster's spells known list.

For a more conventional party, I'm very eager to play something like the following.

Ifrit fire avowed* Vital Strike cestus build, because sometimes you feel like delivering a good Falcon Punch. Fire ink tattoos are cool.
Tengu mystic pseudo-arcane fighting boi with an emphasis on duplicating feats of wizardry.
Ethumion spellburst savant. Akashic dabbler (immaculate touch or martyr's toga) to allow allies to benefit from the ethumion healing bonus, powered by the increased natural healing. Alternately, theurgic scholarship finally gives the Healing domain a use (putting it on an arcane caster's spell list). Covers arcane lore and trapfinding, too.
Dreige (or other giantish) highlord does intense lockdown.
And throw in a Dragonfire Inspiration bard for good measure.

[skunk3]

My approach is so different from everybody else's, that it's either worthless or a valuable new perspective.

1. Character played by somebody who knows the system extremely well, can find a rule quickly, but doesn’t get annoyed when the DM rules against his interpretation.

2. Character run by a player who really loves fantasy, who gets deeply into character, and whose mood is infectious.

3. Martial character run by person with a good sense of tactics and who loves mock battle.

4. Party face run by a player who is good at talking, fun to listen to, and always in character.

5. Character run by skeptic who questions the party’s plan, points out flaws, but doesn’t push for endless argument.

6. Character played by new role-player, for whom it is all still shiny and glorious, who reacts to a vampire or chimera with awe and excitement, rather than rules-driven tactics.

7. Character played by me, in the best game ever.

I agree with this 100%.


I will say, however, that I definitely prefer games in which there is a clear general power threshold established during session 0 so everybody roughly optimizes to the same level and nobody is grossly more OP compared to the others. I find it really frustrating when people make exclusively tier one / tier zero characters who have amazing stats all around, tons of immunities, and basically are never in any real danger. For this reason I kinda like games in which people stick to classes that are roughly tier three, or higher tier classes played and optimized to a t3 level.

[khadgar567]

well my ideal party would be if the third party on the table
1, prodigy played by me
2,magus with cross bloded sorc dip for decent damage
3,mesmerist for the sweet battle field control
4, any healing class
if the third party not on table then witch magus mesmerist and summoner.

[Malphegor]

Urban Druid- deals with a mix of nature-loving people and helps us get around urban environments smoothly

Archivist- helps us deal with the divine without being evangelic. Gnostic religious classes are the best.

Wizard- Helps us deal with the arcane as the archvist does divine. Is also usually our skillmonkey because intelligence is boosted sky high and my DM runs with your equipment adds to your skills on level up.

Barbarian- who the Wizard teleports into battle with one command- Smash.

Rogue- the actual skillmonkey because the wizard put all his points into stuff that is personally useful for him.

Ideally I'd like their races to be Warforged, Dwarf, Pretty much anyone who looks good in a goatee, something orcish, and probably a halfling respectively.

I keep wanting to play a Changeling Factotum Chameleon, but never found a group that's quite feeling right to try it out, being all the classes.