Pathfinder's version of True Creation seems completely broken.

[MonkeySage]

Not in the sense that it's overpowered, but in the sense that the way it's been redesigned, it's completely useless.

Originally, this spell used an amount of experience equal to the usual gold cost of the item you're trying to create.

As it is written now, you may as well just buy the object you're trying to create, rather than spend 5 times the objects usual gold cost on material components to create it. I get that a gm could simply waive this component and use the components of minor and major creation, but the writers of this spell could have done that anyway when they gave the axe to xp costs.

Why would anyone ever bother with this spell as it's written now?

[Psyren]

Do your dungeons and planar excursions often have 24-hour walmart emporiums in them?

The spell lets you convert gold, gems, paintings etc. into just about anything else (nonmagical) you might need, including material components for other, niche spells you might randomly need to cast.

[MonkeySage]

Doesn't really live up to the name of the spell, even. You aren't creating anything, you're just crafting stuff from raw materials. I really can't think of a situation where this spell would actually be helpful in anything.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by MonkeySage
You aren't creating anything, you're just crafting stuff from raw materials.

Producing a finished product from raw materials sounds like creating something to me.

[HouseRules]

Producing a finished product from raw materials sounds like creating something to me.

Creating = Crafting. QED.

[Crake]

Not all things are equally available. Perhaps you're looking for a rare herb that you haven't been able to buy because nobody sells it, but with this, you can just make it by paying a premium.

That said, I agree with you, and this is why xp costs aren't as bad as everyone seems to make them out to be.

[Jack_Simth]

It's particularly broken, in that it is an orphan spell. Look at the level line: it's a domain spell. Now go look up the named domain: It is not there. The domain was changed in a later publication.

[Rynjin]

It's particularly broken, in that it is an orphan spell. Look at the level line: it's a domain spell. Now go look up the named domain: It is not there. The domain was changed in a later publication.

Sort of. It's more like True Creation was never printed as a Pathfinder spell at all.

The book it's from is a setting book released a year before Pathfinder's Core Rulebook was; it's outdated 3.5 material, in other words.

[Spore]

That said, I agree with you, and this is why xp costs aren't as bad as everyone seems to make them out to be.

It is Pathfinder, it does NOT HAVE XP costs.

[HouseRules]

It is Pathfinder, it does NOT HAVE XP costs.

In 3E, 1/25 or 4% of gp cost is additional xp cost. In Pathfinder, this converts to gp cost, so crafting in Pathfinder is 20% more expensive than crafting in 3E in terms of gp cost.

In all versions of D&D 10 xp = 1 pound of gold. Not exactly, because 3E and beyond does not award experience for treasure gained.

[grarrrg]

That said, I agree with you, and this is why xp costs aren't as bad as everyone seems to make them out to be.

It is Pathfinder, it does NOT HAVE XP costs.

You missed the point.

There are no XP costs, so you when you convert 3.5 things you wind up with wonky things like this spell. _If there were_ XP costs, then this spell would work fine no/minimal weirdness about it.
So XP costs make a nice go-between sometimes.

[icefractal]

Pathfinder staves are rechargeable, so a staff with True Creation will eventually pay for itself. It's quite expensive, but a possibility for a high-magic city to have.

[Feantar]

Doesn't really live up to the name of the spell, even. You aren't creating anything, you're just crafting stuff from raw materials. I really can't think of a situation where this spell would actually be helpful in anything.

What? Of course it does. Crafting vs Creating examples:


Crafting(aka Fabricate): I want to get a new blood iron bolt. To do so, I have to track down a lump of blood iron that costs 1/3 of the bolt's cost(~=10 gp) and cast the spell, transmogrifying the blood iron lump into a bolt. If I cannot find blood iron, there's no bolt.
Creating(aka True Creation): I need a blood iron bolt right now. I look in my component bag and find an onyx gem costing about 50 gp. I cast the spell and turn the gem into a blood iron bolt.


They have completely different applications. True Creation is for when it is impossible to get what you want through normal means. Of course, if you take blood money into consideration, fabricate is strictly better, but that's because blood money is just broken.

[Jack_Simth]

Of course, if you take blood money into consideration, fabricate is strictly better, but that's because blood money is just broken.False Focus follows it in power, mind.

[unseenmage]

Pathfinder staves are rechargeable, so a staff with True Creation will eventually pay for itself. It's quite expensive, but a possibility for a high-magic city to have.

Basically this.

Casting spells yourself is a sucker's game. Imma build that spell into a magic item, make it Intelligent, then have it cast for me. :smallwink:

That or somehow get access to is as a SLA.