Divine Soul Sorcadin- what spells to pick up from both lists?

[Alucard89]

I plan to run Paladin 6/Hex 1/Sorcerer 13 soon (our previous party mostly died so we decided to reroll characters at start from level 4).

I want to chose Divine Soul Sorcerer for Origin. What kind of spell (due to limited number of them) should I pick?

I for sure know to pick:

Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, Holy Weapon, Haste, Fireball. Shield I will have from Hexblade. Obviously melee cantrips.

What other spells I should focus on? What are strongest/most useful options?

Since I have access to two classes spell list- it's little overwhelming!

[Blood of Gaea]

These are some of the better spells, peruse through that and see what calls out to you. This is off the top of my had, so it's not an all-inclusive list, but it should be a nice starting point.

Sorcerer:

1st: Absorb Elements, Feather Fall, Detect Magic
2nd: Web, Mirror Image
3rd: Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Dispell Magic
4th: Polymorph, Dimension Door
5th: Animate Objects
6th: Mass Suggestion
7th: Forcecage, Mirage Arcane, Teleport


Cleric:

Cantrip: Guidance
1st: Healing Word
2nd: Lesser Restoration, Silence
3rd: Animate Dead, Revivify
4th: Banishment
5th: Contagion, Greater Restoration, Raise Dead
6th: Heal
7th: Conjure Celelestial, Plane Shift, Ressurection


Paladin:


1st: Bless, Wrathful Smite
2nd: Find Steed, Lesser Restoration, Aura of Vitality


Warlock:

Cantrip: Booming Blade
1st: Armor of Agathys

[Alucard89]

These are some of the better spells, peruse through that and see what calls out to you. This is off the top of my had, so it's not an all-inclusive list, but it should be a nice starting point.

Sorcerer:

1st: Absorb Elements, Feather Fall, Detect Magic
2nd: Web, Mirror Image
3rd: Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Dispell Magic
4th: Polymorph, Dimension Door
5th: Animate Objects
6th: Mass Suggestion
7th: Forcecage, Mirage Arcane, Teleport


Cleric:

Cantrip: Guidance
1st: Healing Word
2nd: Lesser Restoration, Silence
3rd: Animate Dead, Revivify
4th: Banishment
5th: Contagion, Greater Restoration, Raise Dead
6th: Heal
7th: Conjure Celelestial, Plane Shift, Ressurection


Paladin:


1st: Bless, Wrathful Smite
2nd: Find Steed, Lesser Restoration, Aura of Vitality


Warlock:

Cantrip: Booming Blade
1st: Armor of Agathys


Thanks! I am thinking about something like that on 6/1/5 (level 12):

Sorcerer 5:

1. Absorb Elements
2. Spiritual Weapon
3. Haste
4. Fireball
5. Spirit Guardians
6. Hypnotic Pattern

Hexblade 1:
1. Shield
2. Armor of Agathys
3. Expeditious Retreat

Looking good?

[Blood of Gaea]

Thanks! I am thinking about something like that on 6/1/5 (level 12):

Sorcerer 5:

1. Absorb Elements
2. Spiritual Weapon
3. Haste
4. Fireball
5. Spirit Guardians
6. Hypnotic Pattern

Hexblade 1:
1. Shield
2. Armor of Agathys
3. Expeditious Retreat

Looking good?
I personally think there's a lot of overlap between Fireball and Spirit Guardians, so I would consider swapping it out.

That said, fireball is still a good option for quickening while concentrating on another spell and taking an attack action, so it's not a complete waste at all.

Haste is pretty nice, but it's not often going to be better than casting Spirit Guardians or Hypnotic Pattern. The only real exception I see for that is buffing a Rogue with it.

Other than that, it looks like a nice list.

[Alucard89]

I personally think there's a lot of overlap between Fireball and Spirit Guardians, so I would consider swapping it out.

That said, fireball is still a good option for quickening while concentrating on another spell and taking an attack action, so it's not a complete waste at all.

Haste is pretty nice, but it's not often going to be better than casting Spirit Guardians or Hypnotic Pattern. The only real exception I see for that is buffing a Rogue with it.

Other than that, it looks like a nice list.

Yes, I think to take Fireball to be able to do some combos: like keeping conc on Spirit Guardians and then Quicken Fireball next turn for keep hitting them in melee. Also fireball has higher burst vs SG which have higher DPS in fight fasts at least 3 turns.

I want to go haste because I am Vengeance Paladin so I like VoE + Haste and go Ham on bosses :)

Hypnotic is nice, but It's aslo conc. I think one Conc + some quicken option could be better than 2 conc (Spirits or Hypnotic vs groups of enemies).

At least that is what I think. It's theory though.

[Blood of Gaea]

Yes, I think to take Fireball to be able to do some combos: like keeping conc on Spirit Guardians and then Quicken Fireball next turn for keep hitting them in melee. Also fireball has higher burst vs SG which have higher DPS in fight fasts at least 3 turns.

I want to go haste because I am Vengeance Paladin so I like VoE + Haste and go Ham on bosses :)

Hypnotic is nice, but It's aslo conc. I think one Conc + some quicken option could be better than 2 conc (Spirits or Hypnotic vs groups of enemies).

At least that is what I think. It's theory though.
Hypnotic Pattern and Spirit Guardians are good for different situations. Hypnotic Pattern locks down a group of enemies and keeps them asleep so your party can burst the encounter down one enemy at a time with much less risk. Spirit Guardians helps keep enemies from running away from you, and ticks damage out every turn.

Worth Considering that Haste does not scale well, while Spirit Guardians scales extremely well, which is very important when you realize you'll have spell slots higher than spells known. So during a tough encounter, a high-level Spirit Guardians can be worth more to you than a Haste, especially if you won't be using GWM. It also helps burn through legendary saves faster.

[Alucard89]

Hypnotic Pattern and Spirit Guardians are good for different situations. Hypnotic Pattern locks down a group of enemies and keeps them asleep so your party can burst the encounter down one enemy at a time with much less risk. Spirit Guardians helps keep enemies from running away from you, and ticks damage out every turn.

Worth Considering that Haste does not scale well, while Spirit Guardians scales extremely well, which is very important when you realize you'll have spell slots higher than spells known. So during a tough encounter, a high-level Spirit Guardians can be worth more to you than a Haste, especially if you won't be using GWM. It also helps burn through legendary saves faster.

I will be using Sword n Board, as 1 dip in Hex allow only one-handed weapon to be CHA-based.

Good points about scalling. Though Haste works nicely later with Holy weapon. But definitely I want have Spirit Guardians. I will probably just pick Hypnotic on level 6 of Sorc then.

And good point about Legendary Resistance burning. Never thought of that when considering Spirit Guardians.

[Blood of Gaea]

I will be using Sword n Board, as 1 dip in Hex allow only one-handed weapon to be CHA-based.

Good points about scalling. Though Haste works nicely later with Holy weapon. But definitely I want have Spirit Guardians. I will probably just pick Hypnotic on level 6 of Sorc then.

And good point about Legendary Resistance burning. Never thought of that when considering Spirit Guardians.
Holy Weapon and Haste are both Concentration spells.

[Fryy]

I will be using Sword n Board, as 1 dip in Hex allow only one-handed weapon to be CHA-based.

Great spell selections, I think. I am making a similar build.

I assume you will get the War Caster feat ASAP for Shield and Absorb Elements.

I would recommend Healing Word and Misty Step, both bonus action spells.
Healing Word - great for every party member who can get it... never redundant.
Misty Step - great for getting into and out of trouble.

Also... you're taking Eldritch Blast, right?

[Alucard89]

Great spell selections, I think. I am making a similar build.

I assume you will get the War Caster feat ASAP for Shield and Absorb Elements.

I would recommend Healing Word and Misty Step, both bonus action spells.
Healing Word - great for every party member who can get it... never redundant.
Misty Step - great for getting into and out of trouble.

Also... you're taking Eldritch Blast, right?

War Caster level 1 (Paladin, Vuman), then level 2 Hexblade to spam melee cantrips, then straight to Paladin 6 and then Sorcerer.

Misty Step I already get from Vengeance Paladin, same as Hold Person. Hence why I love this Oath. And I also get Hunter's Mark so I don't need Hex.

I think I will take Eldritch Blast... Thought I am more of melee guy. We will see.

[Alucard89]

Holy Weapon and Haste are both Concentration spells.

Crap, correct. Forgot about that.

Still If I find some good magical sword Haste will be great DPR boost till I won't get Holy Weapon. And with VoE and quicken BB that is 4 attacks in one turn, extra chance for crit with Haste bonus attack.

And Haste +2 AC + Adv. on dex saves (good when fighting vs breath-type-boss) is also great. With Shield, Plate and Shield spell it's 27 AC.

Till I won't get Holy Weapon I think Haste is my best DPR boost vs one enemy.

[Blood of Gaea]

Crap, correct. Forgot about that.

Still If I find some good magical sword Haste will be great DPR boost till I won't get Holy Weapon. And with VoE and quicken BB that is 4 attacks in one turn, extra chance for crit with Haste bonus attack.

And Haste +2 AC + Adv. on dex saves (good when fighting vs breath-type-boss) is also great. With Shield, Plate and Shield spell it's 27 AC.

Till I won't get Holy Weapon I think Haste is my best DPR boost vs one enemy.
One Hasted attack: 1d8+5(9.5 average) slashing damage.

One Hasted attack w/ +3 Weapon: 1d8+8(11.5 average) magical slashing damage.

One Hasted attack w/ Flametongue: 1d8+5+2d6(16.5 average) magical slashing and fire damage.

3rd level Spirit Gaurdians: 3d8(13.5 average) divine damage. Deal half damage (6.75 average) damage if they pass the save.

But yeah, the defensive boost of Haste can be useful, so long as you don't lose concentration from taking hits, then your in trouble. Therein lies the trap of using Haste on an upfront character.

[Alucard89]

One Hasted attack: 1d8+5(9.5 average) slashing damage.

One Hasted attack w/ +3 Weapon: 1d8+8(11.5 average) magical slashing damage.

One Hasted attack w/ Flametongue: 1d8+5+2d6(16.5 average) magical slashing and fire damage.

3rd level Spirit Gaurdians: 3d8(13.5 average) divine damage. Deal half damage (6.75 average) damage if they pass the save.

But yeah, the defensive boost of Haste can be useful, so long as you don't lose concentration from taking hits, then your in trouble. Therein lies the trap of using Haste on an upfront character.

Yup, I plan to stack War Caster + RES (CON) with +5 Aura for super Conc checks :). Though RES (CON) will have to wait till level 15.

[RSP]

I highly recommend Sanctuary whenever it’s availanle. It’s a Bonus Action casting and it isn’t Concentration.

If you’re in melee, it could save you from taking a lot of hit, if things go south. If you’re not, it can really save the tank.

It’s such a fantastic spell, grab it if you can.

[Chronos]

Aside: Note that sorcerers have proficiency in Con saves. If you don't mind giving up Wis save proficiency, then you could start with Sorcerer, and not need Resilient, cutting down on the number of feats you need to come online.

[Gtdead]

There are many considerations here. For example, Haste looks like a great spell for a gish. But if you cast it in the first round of combat, and the combat lasts 5 rounds, where you would do (2x5)10 attacks, you do (3x4) 12 attacks instead. Not (3x5) 15. This is an easy question to answer though since you reroll a character for the same table.

Bless is amazing. Should the gish get it though? Do you plan on running GWM with no shield? And does bless work with your party of let's say a wizard and a rogue?

SG + Fireball both? You will probably gain your first level of sorcerer at 8 and fireball/SG at 12. Fireball is strong at lvl 5, not lvl 12.

SG lets you stick to the enemies hard. It has some utility along with the dmg.
Hypnotic Pattern/Fear are crowd control, so they are generally useful.
Fireball is good if you want to murder some peasants by lvl 11.

Sorcadin works best as a tank with enough aggression to matter. Shield is important, healing word is amazing , blur is ok'ish (because you get it late, mirror image may be better in this situation), SG is great as a general purpose spell, debuffs (Web, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern) are great because everything keys of CHA and you have access to heighten, haste can be ok, especially if you can twin it to another melee.

[Alucard89]

There are many considerations here. For example, Haste looks like a great spell for a gish. But if you cast it in the first round of combat, and the combat lasts 5 rounds, where you would do (2x5)10 attacks, you do (3x4) 12 attacks instead. Not (3x5) 15. This is an easy question to answer though since you reroll a character for the same table.

Bless is amazing. Should the gish get it though? Do you plan on running GWM with no shield? And does bless work with your party of let's say a wizard and a rogue?

SG + Fireball both? You will probably gain your first level of sorcerer at 8 and fireball/SG at 12. Fireball is strong at lvl 5, not lvl 12.

SG lets you stick to the enemies hard. It has some utility along with the dmg.
Hypnotic Pattern/Fear are crowd control, so they are generally useful.
Fireball is good if you want to murder some peasants by lvl 11.

Sorcadin works best as a tank with enough aggression to matter. Shield is important, healing word is amazing , blur is ok'ish (because you get it late, mirror image may be better in this situation), SG is great as a general purpose spell, debuffs (Web, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern) are great because everything keys of CHA and you have access to heighten, haste can be ok, especially if you can twin it to another melee.

Thanks, maybe I will stick to SG instead of FB, though I like idea of Web + Fireball combo :). But I see your points.

Haste I like because I take Vengeance Paladin. In first turn Doing VoE + Haste and attacking one from Haste bonus action I lose only one attack. I would do only 2 anyway as I will use VoE vs BBEG anyway (and I don't plan to use haste on anything else part from single target smite mode). Haste means that next turn and next turn I will be able to attack 4 times per turn total, giving me with VoE - 8 d20 rolls per turn, increasing my crit chance a lot.

I wouldn't both with Haste if not for VoE I think. For normal fights I will stick to Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians probably.

[Corran]

I like idea of Web + Fireball combo :).
Fire will burn the web though. It would be better to use a non-fire AoE in this case, since a little bit of extra damage does not justify ending the restrained condition on the enemies.

[Alucard89]

Btw. how would you weigth Divine Soul vs Shadow Sorcerer for Vuman Socradin?

So Shadow:

Shadow is seems nice for Darkness Combo, though that will only be used for group of enemies as VoE allows for some better conc spell to be uphold vs bosses. And when fighting with group of enemies I don't know if I would not prefer Spirit Guardians anyway. And Darkness costs 2 sorc points. But it is great way for AOE disadvantage for enemies and adv for you. So VoE + This combo covers advantage on demand in all situations.

Darkvision is great, but for melee character it can be substitute with Light spell, Darkvision spell or Night Goggles.

Hound is great to impose disadvantage on BBEG but costs 3 sorc points

Strength of Grave is nice, thought nothing that amazing.

Shadow Walk I won't get anyway as I take 13 levels of Sorc.

Divine Soul:

Free on short rest 2k4 to save. It can be difference between life and death on crucial WIS or DEX save or worse, INT save!

Access to cleric spell like: Spiritual Weapon for bonus action attack without needed to waste Quicken Cantrips, Spirit Guardians for AOE radiant DPR and of course- Holy Weapon which is imo great on melee Socradins.

Yet, I see so many people recommending Shadow. Maybe I am missing something.

[Benny89]

Btw. how would you weigth Divine Soul vs Shadow Sorcerer for Vuman Socradin?

So Shadow:

Shadow is seems nice for Darkness Combo, though that will only be used for group of enemies as VoE allows for some better conc spell to be uphold vs bosses. And when fighting with group of enemies I don't know if I would not prefer Spirit Guardians anyway. And Darkness costs 2 sorc points. But it is great way for AOE disadvantage for enemies and adv for you. So VoE + This combo covers advantage on demand in all situations.

Darkvision is great, but for melee character it can be substitute with Light spell, Darkvision spell or Night Goggles.

Hound is great to impose disadvantage on BBEG but costs 3 sorc points

Strength of Grave is nice, thought nothing that amazing.

Shadow Walk I won't get anyway as I take 13 levels of Sorc.

Divine Soul:

Free on short rest 2k4 to save. It can be difference between life and death on crucial WIS or DEX save or worse, INT save!

Access to cleric spell like: Spiritual Weapon for bonus action attack without needed to waste Quicken Cantrips, Spirit Guardians for AOE radiant DPR and of course- Holy Weapon which is imo great on melee Socradins.

Yet, I see so many people recommending Shadow. Maybe I am missing something.

Both are top notch really, but if we talk 13 levels only, without level 14 features and 18 features:

For me slightly Divine Soul>Shadow for Sorcadin. For Pure or 2/18 I would maybe go Shadow if I weren't vengeance who not only gives non-conc Advantage when it's most needed but gives you for free one of best low-levels spells, letting you save your limited Sorc spells known (Misty Step, Hold Person).

For example Darkness + Darkvision is nice vs group of enemies, but I much more prefer to have Spirit Guardians around me and hit each turn everything vs having advantage for each creature separately. Also Darkness + Darkvision eats 2 sorc points. Spirit Guardians start slowly but adds up quickly. It also makes enemies have only half speed which means they can't even disengage from you further than 15 ft which will still hold them inside Spirit Guardians many times. Not saying that Darkness + Darkvision is bad, it's great to screw group of enemies but I think constant damage vs group of enemies around is better than forcing Disadvantage on them. My opinion.

Spiritual Weapon is huge resource save for you as you don't have to use Quicken Cantrips in regular fights and if casted from level 4 slot- a Bonus action 2d8 + 5 melee attack is respectable and can also crit. It's 10 turns, which is great for longer medium/hard difficulty fight where there is no point to lose Sorc Points or burn Smites. It's like having 3rd attack with 1d8 Longsword with 1d8 enchantment on it. It's magical, and it's force - which is least resistant/immunity damage type. Spirit Guardians are also radiant (neutral,good) which is also second least resistant damage type. Even from base slot 1d8 +5 is a solid extra damage and resource save.

And there is Holy Weapon on level 5th. And Heal spell which can be quicken and used with Lay Down Hands for huge healing burst. Also- you have very high save throws with +5 Aura. But that extra 2d4 to save throw will perfectly work with at as you will probably fail only when you really need not to and then bum! extra 2d4 to save throw per short rest. And Sanctuary, which is great. And many more.

Of course there is Hound which gives disadvantage on enemy save throws. In theory is good to make Hound, then do Quicken Hold Person etc. However that is 2 turns vs just Quicken in first turn. Damage now vs Damage later. It's cool, but is it really action-efficient? And 3 sorc Points is quite pricey. You could do second Quicken Hold Person with that. Though it can be cool to summon hound on boss so he have disadvantage vs your quicken spells but I think vs boss you will prefer anyway to open fight with VoE and then just smite him to dust or try Quicken Hold.

I would say they are pretty equal but Divine Soul offers something more in higher levels than Shadow Imo. Darkness combo is nice but it's not the holy grail of 5E like some people treat it. While having access to all strongest and best cleric spell is awesome.

In the end you will be super strong with either, specially with SAD CHA.