Wizard / Cleric build ideas?

[McSkrag]

I want to play a Wizard for my next AL character and I've got a couple concepts I'd like some feedback on.

I definitely want to take 1-2 levels of cleric and the rest wizard. Leaning toward gnome or Vhuman and abjuration, divination, or evocation for wizard school.

Tempest Cleric 2 / Wizard X
Maximize damage on shatter, lightning bolt, or chain lightning 1/rest just sounds fun to me. If I went with Divination I could make them fail saves. Or I could go Evocation to be Blaster McBlastypants. But that 2nd level of cleric really slows down wizard spells.

Knowledge Cleric 1 / Wizard X
Excellent out of combat skills. If I go with Divination I will know all the things.

Wizard School?

Abjuration
Divination
Evocation


Race?

Gnome - Solid saves vs. magic and gnomish coolness
VHuman - What feat at 1st level? Warcaster? Resilient CON?


What do you guys think? Any other cool AL-legal cleric/wizard builds you can think of?

[RogueJK]

Any of the more melee-oriented Clerics that grants Heavy Armor proficiency (Tempest, Nature, Life, Order, Forge, etc.) pair well with Abjuration Wizard for a more durable Wizard. Go for a high INT, at least a 15 STR (unless you're a dwarf), a decent CON, and at least a 13 WIS for multiclassing. You can dump DEX and CHA. You will have a higher AC than usual with Heavy Armor and a Shield, and Arcane Ward gets you extra HP. Plus your Cleric dip adds access to a few extra 1st level Cleric Abjuration spells for activating or replenishing the Arcane Ward, namely Sanctuary, Protection from Evil and Good, and Shield of Faith, all of which are handy defensive spells.


There are lots of options for race, depending on what you want to play. Variant Human is never a bad choice. Rock Gnome could be good, for +2 INT. Hill Dwarf could also be a good option, for extra HP and the ability to ignore the STR requirement for Heavy Armor, although your INT won't get a boost at 1st level. Githyanki could be fun too, and has some handy INT-based racial spells. A Variant Half Wood Elf with Fleet of Foot could also dump STR without worrying about getting slowed down by their Heavy Armor too much... Their speed would drop to 25 feet, but that's the same as a Dwarf/Gnome/Halfling anyway.

Something like a Variant Human with Resilient CON
STR 14+1
DEX 8
CON 13+1
INT 15+1
WIS 13
CHA 9

Or a Rock Gnome
STR 15
DEX 8
CON 12+1
INT 15+2
WIS 13
CHA 8

Or a Hill Dwarf
STR 10
DEX 8
CON 15+2
INT 15
WIS 13+1
CHA 8

Or a Githyanki
STR 13+2
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 15+1
WIS 13
CHA 9

Or a Variant Half Wood Elf with Fleet of Foot
STR 8
DEX 8
CON 15+1
INT 15+1
WIS 14
CHA 10+2

[LudicSavant]

Order Cleric 1 = Any time you target an ally with a spell, they get to make a reaction attack. Doesn't have to be a Cleric spell.

Also they get Heavy Armor and an extra skill proficiency.

[Lyracian]

I was looking at doing the same. My plan was definitely only one level of Cleric for the armour.

Tempest Wrath is nice if you are getting hit.
Life gives a boost to Healing but character will only occasional use Healing Word/cure Wounds.
Forge gives +1 AC even in Medium Armour.
Knowledge gives a skill boost.

My initial thought was Knowlege but liking Forge more thinking about it.

The initial question is are you wanting Medium or Heavy Armour? Chain Mail only needs Str 13 Scale Mail wants Dex 14.

For Race I like Half Elf as you can ignore Chr and still get a 10 and have Darkvision.
Int 16; wis/Dex 14; con 12; Str/chr 10.

[Laserlight]

I took a gnome (for saving throws and general inconspicuousness) Knowledge 1 / Divination X with Keen Mind. Everyone called him Sherlock Gnomes. I generally stayed back and opened with Bless or Fireball and then let the meat shields have their fun.
I seldom got attacked, and when I did, armor + shield + Shield generally was good enough.

[CTurbo]

Deep Gnome Tempest or Knowledge Cleric 2/Abjuration Wizard 18 with Svirfneblin feat is a really awesome thing. You'd be able to recharge your arcane ward so easily you wouldn't even be worried about getting hit. You'd need to stick to medium armor but that's ok

If you really want a tougher heavy armor character, go Hill Dwarf Tempest 2/Abjurer Wizard 18


But yeah Knowledge is probably the best domain for quick Wizard dips

[Throne12]

I like trickery cleric because of there duplicity ability is so nice for a caster. You can be in full cover and still cast spell also you cant get counterspell because your out of it range. Duplicity let you cast a spell as if you where in it spot but you are not there. It like the familiar delivering a touch spell. You also get a ability to help your party fighter sneak.

[RogueJK]

Tempest Wrath is nice if you are getting hit.

Tempest is not a great choice for a single level dip, because Tempest's Wrath of the Storm reaction doesn't scale well. Keep in mind that it's a DEX save whose DC is based on your WIS casting stat. It's also only usable a number of times per day equal to your WIS mod. The problem is that your WIS won't be higher than 13/14, and you almost certainly won't be raising it with lather ASIs. So it'd be a DC 11 or 12 DEX Save, usable 1 or 2 times per day. Hardly any uses, and it will be simple for enemies to make that save. Yeah, it's still half damage on a save, but that's a single d8. So it means you'd be doing an average of 4.5-9 points of total extra damage each day. Potentially helpful at Level 1, but a pittance at Level 5/10/15/etc.

Tempest's 1st level ability pales in comparison to something like a free tailorable +1 to weapon or armor for life (Forge). Or two languages plus Expertise in two knowledge skills (Knowledge). Or extra HP healed on every healing spell you cast (Life). Or a skill plus granting an ally an extra attack every time you cast a spell on them (Order). Or even a skill and a Druid cantrip (Nature).

Forge and Knowledge are the best options for a single level Cleric dip for most Wizards.

Life is a great option for something like a Bard who gets further access to healing spells, but can still come in handy for a Wizard who wants to be a backup healer, with Cure Wounds and Healing Word and the ability to upcast them if necessary.

Order could be potentially handy, if you're going to be focusing on buffing allies and will be casting lots of spells on your party during combat. Not as useful for something like a controller or blaster Wizard.

Nature is less useful for a Wizard, but could still be an option if you're doing the Cleric dip mainly for the Heavy Armor, and want to pick up another skill and extra utility cantrip to make a more well-rounded character.

[Lyracian]

Tempest is not a great choice for a single level dip
Potentially decent at Level 1, but a pittance at Level 5/10/15/etc.
).
This brings up the other question as to what level you are going to start and finish the campaign at. Even with a save D8 can kill a lot of Mooks. Sure it is weaker at higher levels but it still gives a bit of extra damage.

If everyone gets Magic Armour/Weapons by 10th level then Forge Domain ability also becomes useless.

Twice a day Wrath when you also get Heavy armour and Martial Weapons seems fine.

If you read the rest of my post you will also see I was saying my preference was Knowledge or Forge.

[Corran]

Knowledge Cleric 1 / Wizard X
Excellent out of combat skills. If I go with Divination I will know all the things.

This is what I'd do. Purely preference.
Whether you end up taking a domain that grants you heavy armor or one that does not, I would go with medium so that I can put the points in dex, rather than in strength. Initiative is more important than AC for you (dex saves tend to be more common than str saves too, plus with a medium armor you have the option to be stealthy, at the cost of an additional AC point; most of the times it's worth it though).

[BoxANT]

Just wrapped up a ToA as a high elf cleric (knowledge) 6 and wizard (divination) x

Great combination and i will say, knowledge cleric being able to cast Suggestion twice a short rest is amazing (especially when you get Portent).

Also, Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image, Shield (while wearing a shield) and taking the dodge action... is OP

If you only want to take 1-2 levels of cleric though, taking that 2nd cleric level gives you a lot of flexibility with channel divinity.

[McSkrag]

Huge thanks to everyone for the feedback. Based on everyone's input here's my plan:

I agree with @Corran that Dexterity + Medium armor is better for wizards for the improved initiative and DEX saves. I'll use guidance out of combat to help with skill checks. Probably take lucky or warcaster (if I find a good staff) at wizard level 12.

Milestone 1
Knowledge Cleric 1 / Divination Wizard 2
VHuman
STR 8 | DEX 14 | CON 14 | INT 16 | WIS 14 | CHA 8
AC: 18 (Scale + Shield)
ASI: Resilient CON
Skills (+1d4 with Guidance): Arcana +7, Religion + 7, History +5, Nature +5, Perception +4, Stealth +4

Milestone 2
Knowledge Cleric 1 / Divination Wizard 8
VHuman
STR 8 | DEX 14 | CON 14 | INT 20 | WIS 14 | CHA 8
AC: 18 (Scale + Shield)
ASI: Resilient CON, +2 INT, +2 INT
Skills (+1d4 with Guidance): Arcana +11, Religion + 11, History +8, Nature +8, Perception +7, Stealth +5

[BlackRose]

Pretty much everything roguejk said. Don't forget you get a seventh skill thanks to vhuman, I would suggest acrobatics, insight, or investigation. At higher levels go breastplate for stealth or else half plate for the raw ac.

[Rukelnikov]

Order Cleric 1 / Evocator X

Throw a fireball, sculpt around meatshield, grant meatshield an attack as a reaction :D

[DissidentWizard]

As long as you're sticking with medium armor Death cleric is a fun option too. Get toll the dead/chill touch as your wizard cantrips and hit two people with it. Gives you some good dps when you're conserving slots/concentrating on spells. Later down the road you can pick up warcaster which is great on it's own, but also have a rapier ready for bb/gfb or stick with you're normal cantrips. Death might make rp a little tough if you're going for that though

[Rukelnikov]

As long as you're sticking with medium armor Death cleric is a fun option too. Get toll the dead/chill touch as your wizard cantrips and hit two people with it. Gives you some good dps when you're conserving slots/concentrating on spells. Later down the road you can pick up warcaster which is great on it's own, but also have a rapier ready for bb/gfb or stick with you're normal cantrips. Death might make rp a little tough if you're going for that though

Sadly, I think Death domain is not AL legal

[Asmotherion]

it really comes down to personal preferance.

i'd favor an Armored Abjurer Wizard with a Shield&Armor Shield spell and Shield of Faith together with Armor of Agathis through Magic initiate.

[Rukelnikov]

it really comes down to personal preferance.

i'd favor an Armored Abjurer Wizard with a Shield&Armor Shield spell and Shield of Faith together with Armor of Agathis through Magic initiate.

MI AoA is kind of a waste, 5 temp hp is nothing past lvl 3

[DissidentWizard]

Sadly, I think Death domain is not AL legal

Sad, I did not know that. Makes sense

[Asmotherion]

MI AoA is kind of a waste, 5 temp hp is nothing past lvl 3

You can cast it on a higher level slot for multiples of 5 temp hp. And it refreshes your Abjurer's Ward for it's an abjuration spell. 2 birds with one stone.

[DissidentWizard]

You can cast it on a higher level slot for multiples of 5 temp hp. And it refreshes your Abjurer's Ward for it's an abjuration spell. 2 birds with one stone.

Can you upcast magic initiate spells? Or even use your slots for them?

[Rukelnikov]

You can cast it on a higher level slot for multiples of 5 temp hp. And it refreshes your Abjurer's Ward for it's an abjuration spell. 2 birds with one stone.


Can you upcast magic initiate spells? Or even use your slots for them?

No, sadly you can't do that RAW/RAI.

[Asmotherion]

Can you upcast magic initiate spells? Or even use your slots for them?
Sure you can. At least to my knowlage. You can use your Spell slots to cast spells from multiclass so i don't see why this would be an exception. There are no "spell-like abilities" in 5e. Just spells. Same for Racial Spells as far as i'm concerned.


No, sadly you can't do that RAW/RAI.
Any proof on this claim?

[Rukelnikov]

Sure you can. At least to my knowlage. You can use your Spell slots to cast spells from multiclass so i don't see why this would be an exception. There are no "spell-like abilities" in 5e. Just spells. Same for Racial Spells as far as i'm concerned.


Any proof on this claim?

MI is pretty much a SLA, and no you can't upcast it. Its not really a spell known, though it should.

From SA compendium:

"If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1stlevel spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?

Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare. In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate"

[Asmotherion]

MI is pretty much a SLA, and no you can't upcast it. Its not really a spell known, though it should.
But there are no SLAs in 5e. So it counts as a Spell known by RAW.

What i'm asking is if you can provide some quote or otherwise proof that what you say is true by RAW.

PS:

Thank you. That said i want to adress that many players choose to not follow/ignore the sage posts/compendium completely and play only by Hard Cover Rules. Just saying.

[DissidentWizard]

Ya it's an easy enough houserule, we let players count it as spells known and cast it with slots etc. I don't think it breaks anything but I imagine AL would stick closer to the SA and disallow it. For normal play I like AoA on abjurers but it probably doesn't help a leaguer much, like that idiot who tried to suggest death domain

[Rukelnikov]

But there are no SLAs in 5e. So it counts as a Spell known by RAW.

What i'm asking is if you can provide some quote or otherwise proof that what you say is true by RAW.

PS:

Thank you. That said i want to adress that many players choose to not follow/ignore the sage posts/compendium completely and play only by Hard Cover Rules. Just saying.

Even by RAW it doesn't work. If you are a wizard:

"You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots."

Or a Sorcerer:

"The Sorcerer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your sorcerer spells of 1st level and higher."

MI doesn't put the spell in your list, so RAW, you can't do it either.

[Snowbluff]

You can do the Tempest Cleric Sorc Melee tank with Wizard instead of sorc in AL. This would mean you could scribe spells, instead of relying on SCAG (where you get the Blade Cantrips), allowing you to get Absorb Elements.

So Something Like Wizard2/Cleric9 so you have Divine Strike (used with Booming Blade for like 4d8 per hit) and Destructive Wave, but also the first School feature, probably Portent from Diviner. The Evoker level 2 feature Sculpt Magic is the other really good level 2 feature, but Spirit Guardians and Destructive Wave are already selective.

For the record, my Tempest Cleric8/StormSorc1 (combos Divine Strike + booming blade + Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon to lock down and punish) is pretty good and tanky, but definitely feels the AoE damage that Absorb Elements would prevent. He uses heavy armor and a shield, as well as a staff of power to buff his defense.

[Asmotherion]

Even by RAW it doesn't work. If you are a wizard:

"You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots."

Or a Sorcerer:

"The Sorcerer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your sorcerer spells of 1st level and higher."

MI doesn't put the spell in your list, so RAW, you can't do it either.

Magic initiate gives you a new Spell and a couple cantrips you know how to cast. it's meant to represent a fraction of a level in a spellcasting class. it further allows you to cast the spell once without using a spell slot (meant to compensate for classes that don't have spell slots but also a good thing for spellcasters because free spell).

if i have 10 Sorcerer Levels and get a single Warlock level the system lets me upcast AoA as a 5th level spell eventhough i cannot cast 5th level Warlock spells.

Following that logic and how Multiclass Spellcasting Functions magic initiate is assumed to function the same way. it does function with an other class of choice's stats and the system effectivelly must proccess it as it would a multiclass spellcasting. That is obviously how it was designed.

Finally i want to adress to the clearyfing text in Magic initiate itself: "you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again". if you were not meant to use your own spell slots to cast the spell why would they put "in this way" and not simply say "before you can cast it again"?

The feat is meant to grab a spell from an other class and use it as your own. That's what everyone does with it since 5e became a thing.

[Rukelnikov]

Following that logic and how Multiclass Spellcasting Functions magic initiate is assumed to function the same way. it does function with an other class of choice's stats and the system effectivelly must proccess it as it would a multiclass spellcasting. That is obviously how it was designed.

Finally i want to adress to the clearyfing text in Magic initiate itself: "you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again". if you were not meant to use your own spell slots to cast the spell why would they put "in this way" and not simply say "before you can cast it again"?

The feat is meant to grab a spell from an other class and use it as your own. That's what everyone does with it since 5e became a thing.

That is clearly NOT how it was designed since RAW and RAI, it can't be used that way. You are free to use it however you want though.

[Asmotherion]

That is clearly NOT how it was designed since RAW and RAI, it can't be used that way. You are free to use it however you want though.
Actually you're wrong. But house rule it as you wish.

[Rukelnikov]

I may be wrong, but RAW and RAI say the same as me

[Asmotherion]

I may be wrong, but RAW and RAI say the same as me
Not really. You're free to interpreat them as you wish but the vast majority of the players don't do so. Unless you believe everybody is wrong and you're right were i rest my case.

[Rukelnikov]

I believe the book, and above all, those who wrote it, to know better. However, you may be right, and they may be misinterpreting what they meant the feat to do.

[Asmotherion]

I believe the book, and above all, those who wrote it, to know better. However, you may be right, and they may be misinterpreting what they meant the feat to do.

They changed how it functions in an unofficial post. For something to be considered official RAW it must be in the official errata. Otherwise it can be considered vaguely Rai at best. i explain latter why i say vaguely.

However it is not the first time in 5e RAW and Rai changes how it functions. The Sorcerer's Elemental Affinity applying to multiple instances of the same spell was 100 percent RAW and Rai until the Errata. They changed it to activelly tone down the ability. This is a simple proof that the intention behind the design was altered after the change (Thus we have an initial Rai and a new Rai after the Creators were not pleased with it so they enforced a new RAW).

Finally the Sage column Rai is more the interpretation of the creator who writes at the moment rather than the collective of all the creators. This is observable in many contradictory sage posts over the years. And thus why i don't give that much credit to the sage column as a source of Rai. When and if the change is somehow finalized into the Errata i'll give it credit.

[McSkrag]

While I appreciate the passionate discussion about MI, can we please stay on topic?

Thanks

[Rukelnikov]

Dude it doesn't work in raw because it doesn't put the spell on your list, and so you can't prepare it (if memorized class) or cast it (if spontaneous)

I'm sorry to be the one that broke your favorite feat, but that's how it always worked, and how it always was meant to.

[Rukelnikov]

While I appreciate the passionate discussion about MI, can we please stay on topic?

Thanks

Yeah, I already showed and explained everything I had to.

[Asmotherion]

Dude it doesn't work in raw because it doesn't put the spell on your list, and so you can't prepare it (if memorized class) or cast it (if spontaneous)

I'm sorry to be the one that broke your favorite feat, but that's how it always worked, and how it always was meant to.
You can because of multiclass spellcasting rules. Also specific trumps generic in this case. You're just afraid to admit you're wrong and you're out of arguements but fine. i won't derail this thread any longer as the OP suggested.

[RogueJK]

Seriously guy. This isn't a hard debate to settle. It's pretty clear RAW, and any further doubt is erased by the Sage Advice Compendium, which states on Page 8:

https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf


If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?

Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.

In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.

You cannot cast your Magic Initiate spell using spell slots unless it's from the same class that you already have levels in.

Now, can we talk about Wizard/Clerics?

[Rukelnikov]

Now, can we talk about Wizard/Clerics?

Well, limiting it to an AL legal with just 1 level of cleric I can't imagine many more builds than those already proposed.

I guess we can talk about how access to 1st level cleric spells could change the spell selection, or what to spend concentration in.

1st lvl Cleric non-wizard concentration spells are:

*Shield of Faith
*Detect Poison & Disease
*Detect Evil & Good
*Bless
*Bane

With this in mind, Bless probably beats every other 1st level concentration spell, so, if no one else in the party can cast it, concentration should normally go to this spell.

When 2nd level wizard spells come into play you got some competitors:

*Dragon Breath on your familiar
*Web
*Hold Person

All of these, Bless included, last for a single fight, however Bless may allow to save 2nd level slots if someone in your party, you for example, doesn't need the bonus.

Some other combos I can think of:

Dragon's Breath on your Familiar, second round deal damage with a cantrip and sanctuary yourself, have your familiar breath fire, or whichever element you prefer, and be a healer.

If DM rules that even when the familiar is breathing fire you are the one dealing damage, even better, sanctuary your familiar, and keep playing wizard.

[RogueJK]

Looking at it from a Domain Spell standpoint:

If you're sticking with Medium Armor, Light Domain might be an interesting choice for a 1 level Cleric dip. You not only get the handy ability to impose Disadvantage with no save on an attack made within 30 feet of you, but you also get access to the excellent non-Cleric and non-Wizard spell Faerie Fire.

Or, if you want Heavy Armor, Nature Domain gets the useful Ritual spell Speak With Animals. Animals are literally everywhere, and it doesn't cost a spell slot.

[AHF]

Looking at it from a Domain Spell standpoint:

If you're sticking with Medium Armor, Light Domain might be an interesting choice for a 1 level Cleric dip. You not only get the handy ability to impose Disadvantage with no save on an attack made within 30 feet of you, but you also get access to the excellent non-Cleric and non-Wizard spell Faerie Fire.

Or, if you want Heavy Armor, Nature Domain gets the useful Ritual spell Speak With Animals. Animals are literally everywhere, and it doesn't cost a spell slot.

Was literally coming on to make these same points. I am currently playing a wizard with 1st level light cleric and the Burning Hands bonus spell is useful at low levels and Faerie Fire for much longer. The ability to impose disadvantage on attacks is always useful.

[Lyracian]

I have been playing a Cleric/Bard and have been using the Cleric prepared spells for Bless and rituals such as Detect Magic to save learning them as Bard spells. Wizard gets to cast Rituals from there book but can still make use of the Clerics other Detect spells. With an expected 14 WIZ you are only going to have 3 spells prepared. If you are taking Healing Word and Bless that only gives you one other slot?


Was literally coming on to make these same points. I am currently playing a wizard with 1st level light cleric and the Burning Hands bonus spell is useful at low levels and Faerie Fire for much longer. The ability to impose disadvantage on attacks is always useful.
The fact that Burning Hands is based off WIZ rather than INT Save might limit it a bit?


but you also get access to the excellent non-Cleric and non-Wizard spell Faerie Fire.
This could also suffer from being a DEX save based off WIZ. As an always known spell it does give you a chance against invisible foes though.


Or, if you want Heavy Armor, Nature Domain gets the useful Ritual spell Speak With Animals. Animals are literally everywhere, and it doesn't cost a spell slot.
That is a nice Ritual to add; I like the idea of speaking with the beasts. You also get the option of SHILLELAGH which if you do end up having to fight with a Staff your WIZ is likely better than STR. Probably better for a character with rolled stats who may have very high in both mental stats rather than an AL character. Is there a better Druid Cantrip for a Wizard?

If you do not want attack/save spells your Cantrips options are Guidance, Mending, Light and Spare the Dying. There is also the Prestidigitation variants for the other classes as well. Is there any other Cantrip worth taking?

[Shuruke]

I just played a campaign to ten
Was knowledge cleric 6
Wizard transmutation 4
Gave a lot of utility and took ritual caster druid for the druid rituals of speak with animals etc.

My other asi was to get wis and int to 16 since both were 15
Played dwarf to get wis from 14-15 and con from 13-15

Had a low cha and played him as a cloistered scholar always mumbling amd bad with people.

Was eventually gonna be 6 cleric 14 wizard

[RogueJK]

With an expected 14 WIZ you are only going to have 3 spells prepared. If you are taking Healing Word and Bless that only gives you one other slot?

Which is what makes Life Cleric's domain spells so appealing. You'll always have Cure Wounds and Bless prepared as Domain Spells anyway, so that frees up two of your limited prepared Cleric spells for other stuff.




The fact that Burning Hands is based off WIZ rather than INT Save might limit it a bit?

[Faerie Fire] could also suffer from being a DEX save based off WIZ.

True. But you could focus on being a high-WIS and high-INT caster Cleric/Wizard. Stick with medium armor and a shield. Don't use a weapon, and just focus on casting.

With something like a Variant Human or Half-Elf, you could start with a 16 WIS and 16 INT, with a 14 DEX and 10 CON. (Or potentially better if you're using rolled stats.)

Or as a Githzerai, you could start with a 16 INT and WIS, with a 14 DEX and 12 CON.

Or you could do a Hill Dwarf in Heavy Armor, starting with a 17 CON, 15 INT, and 16 WIS.



[Speak With Animals] is a nice Ritual to add

Similar to Nature, Forge and Knowledge have Identify as a useful always-prepared Ritual spell. Although Identify could be scribed in your Wizard spellbook anyway.



You also get the option of SHILLELAGH which if you do end up having to fight with a Staff your WIZ is likely better than STR. Probably better for a character with rolled stats who may have very high in both mental stats rather than an AL character. Is there a better Druid Cantrip for a Wizard?


If you're playing as the aforementioned high-WIS and high-INT caster Cleric/Wizard, then I could see why would might find Shillelagh appealing, to allow you to wade into melee at times. But you could do that with just a high INT and something like Shocking Grasp as one of your Wizard cantrips anyway, and Shocking Grasp's scaling d8 damage will outpace Shillelagh's fixed 1d8+WIS damage, starting at Level 5.

Toll the Dead could also be taken as a Wizard cantrip and be used both in melee and at range, and would only require focusing on INT. Plus it would out-damage Shillelagh starting at Level 5.

So I don't think Shillelagh is an ideal option. Shillelagh is better for classes/multiclasses that eventually get multiple attacks and builds that are using Polearm Master for the additional WIS-based bonus attack with a Shillelagh'd quarterstaff. With just one attack as a Cleric/Wizard, you're better off with a scaling damage cantrip past Levels 1-4.

As for better options, Druidcraft is the only Druid-exclusive cantrip that isn't WIS-dependent. All the other non-WIS-dependent Druid utility cantrips can also be taken by Wizards, although it does give you an additional choice for extra versatility. The Druid/Wizard elemental cantrips like Mold Earth or Shape Water aren't usually most folks' first choices, but given the opportunity to take them with an extra "free" cantrip choice, they can be surprisingly useful in a number of situations, provided you think creatively.

[Citan]

I want to play a Wizard for my next AL character and I've got a couple concepts I'd like some feedback on.

I definitely want to take 1-2 levels of cleric and the rest wizard. Leaning toward gnome or Vhuman and abjuration, divination, or evocation for wizard school.

Tempest Cleric 2 / Wizard X
Maximize damage on shatter, lightning bolt, or chain lightning 1/rest just sounds fun to me. If I went with Divination I could make them fail saves. Or I could go Evocation to be Blaster McBlastypants. But that 2nd level of cleric really slows down wizard spells.

Knowledge Cleric 1 / Wizard X
Excellent out of combat skills. If I go with Divination I will know all the things.

Wizard School?

Abjuration
Divination
Evocation


Race?

Gnome - Solid saves vs. magic and gnomish coolness
VHuman - What feat at 1st level? Warcaster? Resilient CON?


What do you guys think? Any other cool AL-legal cleric/wizard builds you can think of?
Hi!

Plz apologize if I give concepts that were already talked about, for once I want to post without being uptodate with thread. :)

So.
2 Cleric, rest Wizard.
MANY MANY POSSIBILITIES. XD

Tempest Cleric / Evoker Wizard is the obvious one like you envisioned.
With Evoker, another great choice is Trickery.

Trickery / Evoker
1. Obvious things that work by RAW: every damaging spell that is either cone from self or area around self (ThunderWave/Burning Hands/Cone of Cold), as well as Crown of Stars (just discovered that spell XD): now you can inflict maximum damage without hurting your friends neither risking yourself. It can also be very useful at times to use shaped spells that could hurt friends if cast from backline (like line spells), or to maximize targeting (you can make the illusion "fly above" for a optimal positioning of cone or circular AOE).

2. Things that are technically doable by RAW but may be ruled differently from one DM to another depending on how exactly to view the "you can cast spells as though you were in the illusion's space, but you must use your own senses."
a) Mirror Image on illusion then hiding yourself: now enemies will REALLY think you are there and will waste quite some attacks on it instead of friends.
b) Misty Step and Thunder Step: with casting point of "self" being swappable with duplicate, yet effect being "you teleport up to 30 feet away (inferred: "from casting point") into an unoccupied space that you can see", a possible understanding of RAW is that you can now extend the effective range of those spells. I'm pretty sure other people would argue that the essence of the spell makes it so that it's still up to 30 feet from the place you were standing, but while that could certainly be RAI, it's not necessarily RAW. And certainly not ROC. ;)
So it means you can get a "up to 150 feet Misty Step" and "up to 250 feet Thunder Step" for little.

3. Things that won't work or would be useless: Shield/Absorb Elements (require *you* to be targeted or hurt), Blink (technically works, but why use it on illusion? XD) and similar spells that are only really useful when affecting you directly.

While we are on Trickery...

Trickery / Bladesinger

This one is straight-forward: use Duplicate to gain advantage against one or two dangerous guys, use Bless or Shield of Faith until you can get Haste or Greater Invisibility to buff you, and go to town.

Trickery / Illusion: simply because you can not get better synergy thematically than that. It also opens all kind of nasty tricks (combining Duplicate + Disguise Self beforehand + Improved Minor Illusion).

Grave / Whatever: essentially to combine the "vulnerability on next instance" with whatever spell you want, with Disintegrate being first in line. Problem is action economy, since you have little ways to get damaging spell and CD in the same turn since latter uses an action.
Damaging spells using a bonus action are usually concentration spells that have been designed to last rounds so don't deal much damage.
You could make work with Delayed Blast Fireball but it comes with its own problem, mainly how to get the timing right -unless a Dexterous friend agrees to keep the bead in its hand while it grows: I never noticed until today that one *can* throw bead if succeeding the attempt to grab it, but it has no obligation to. Meaning it can keep it.

Nature / Transmuter: fine both in fluff and mechanics: from level 10 onwards, you can just spend (nearly) all day as a beast if you want, and Nature brings in beast-related skills and spells.

Knowledge / Diviner: same right synergy on all plans: Diviner helps you get information on how to tackle a challenge, Knowledge provides whatever proficiency overcoming that challenge may require.

Death/Necromancy: yet another obvious combination: not *that big* of a benefit mechanically, because not that many interesting necromancy spells, but still having auto-twin on some spells that can restore HP on kill is not something to sneeze at.

Life/Necromancy: just so you can say you're the master of Life and Death alike. ;)

Forge / Abjurer: because what's better than an Abjurer? Obviously an Abjurer with 21 AC (Heavy armor +1 and shield).