If you could siphon from the earths core

[Traab]

What, if any, effect on the planet would it have and when? Im talking for the sake of argument, the outer and inner core. Primarily im only including problems caused by the removal of material from it, not things like, "Well drilling a hole that deep would cause x y and z to happen" Would there be some form of horrible collapsing of the planet as it sinks in to fill the gap created? Would it cause terrible earthquakes and volcanic eruptions from the shifting pressures underneath the mantle that our crust floats merrily away on? How much would need to be removed before any emasurable effects would be seen?

[LibraryOgre]

My first thought is that removing the giant spinning iron core is going to cause problems with the magnetic field.

[Traab]

My first thought is that removing the giant spinning iron core is going to cause problems with the magnetic field.

True, but how much of it could be removed, do you think, before that starts to have an effect? And would it have an effect on more than the magnetic field? Or would a giant hollow spot at the center of the earth cause other issues as well?

[halfeye]

What, if any, effect on the planet would it have and when? Im talking for the sake of argument, the outer and inner core. Primarily im only including problems caused by the removal of material from it, not things like, "Well drilling a hole that deep would cause x y and z to happen" Would there be some form of horrible collapsing of the planet as it sinks in to fill the gap created? Would it cause terrible earthquakes and volcanic eruptions from the shifting pressures underneath the mantle that our crust floats merrily away on? How much would need to be removed before any emasurable effects would be seen?

Where the heck are you theoretically removing it to?

The surface of the Earth is about twenty miles thick. If you have a pot of gravy on the stove, the skin on the gravy, just after you stirred the pot, is thicker in ratio than the crust on the Earth. If you put the core on the crust, the crust would sink. If you put the core in orbit around the sun, the rest of the Earth would contract, violently. Earthquakes wouldn't come into it, it'd be continents turning over, runny side up, if we were unlucky, at the very least lava lakes thousands of miles wide, steam and steam explosions everywhere. We could probably nick the gold, there isn't that much in cubic kilometres, but the price of gold based jewellery would drop like a stone, to lower than porridge per tonne. Gold is still a useful corrosion resistant conductor, so it would never drop below the price of copper, but the price of copper would drop a lot, and we'd possibly use gold for pipes in houses (or maybe a copper/gold alloy, because copper's harder).

[Traab]

Where the heck are you theoretically removing it to?

The surface of the Earth is about twenty miles thick. If you have a pot of gravy on the stove, the skin on the gravy, just after you stirred the pot, is thicker in ratio than the crust on the Earth. If you put the core on the crust, the crust would sink. If you put the core in orbit around the sun, the rest of the Earth would contract, violently. Earthquakes wouldn't come into it, it'd be continents turning over, runny side up, if we were unlucky, at the very least lava lakes thousands of miles wide, steam and steam explosions everywhere. We could probably nick the gold, there isn't that much in cubic kilometres, but the price of gold based jewellery would drop like a stone, to lower than porridge per tonne. Gold is still a useful corrosion resistant conductor, so it would never drop below the price of copper, but the price of copper would drop a lot, and we'd probably use gold for pipes in houses.

I was looking at it as normal mining operations only in this case its "somehow" removing it from the outer and inner core of the earth. So all that material being siphoned off is going towards whatever it currently goes towards. As an example, the US mined 42.5 million metric tons of iron ore in 2015. If that much was being pulled out of the earths core every year, how long before bad things started to happen? Again, ignoring the "how is it getting out?" part. Im just curious about the results of the gradual draining.

[halfeye]

I was looking at it as normal mining operations only in this case its "somehow" removing it from the outer and inner core of the earth. So all that material being siphoned off is going towards whatever it currently goes towards. As an example, the US mined 42.5 million metric tons of iron ore in 2015. If that much was being pulled out of the earths core every year, how long before bad things started to happen? Again, ignoring the "how is it getting out?" part. Im just curious about the results of the gradual draining.

I edited my post since you posted apparently.

I don't know about the exact results, if you're not talking about cubic kilometres it's probably not that significant, we've had volcanic erruptions of several cubic kilometres of material in the past (not, I think, since humanity has been around, but in the history of the Earth, several times).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deccan_Traps


volume of c. 1,000,000 km3 (200,000 cu mi)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Traps


volume of around four million km3 (0.96 million cu mi).[3

Okay, that's a bit more than I was remembering.

So, millions of cubic kilometres is the standard to aim for. It was pretty drastic.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Let's put it like this: the mass of the Earth's core is measured in sextillions of tons. Anything you remove in human scale isn't even a blip on a blip on a blip on the radar.

[snowblizz]

I'm going to add that despite the nice pictures in a geology textbook we don't know as much about the earth's inner workings as one would assume. A lot of the info is guesstimates so it's difficult to say how much of it could be redistributed before stuff happens. Close enough for government work as they say.

Ultimately though you are going to get issues with the magnetic field and one would assume any volume lost in the core will be repalced by other material which is eventually going to cause measurable effects for us at the surface. The continents tipping over from above.

Taken together basically, we can sorta say what the really worst case scenarios are going to be, but how quickly we'd get there is probably "insufficent data".

[Kato]

Let's put it like this: the mass of the Earth's core is measured in sextillions of tons. Anything you remove in human scale isn't even a blip on a blip on a blip on the radar.

This. Unless you want to cause problems, you won't cause problems. There is more iron there than we could possibly need, until the robot apocalypse happens thrice over.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Which is something that always annoys me about a large chunk of sci-fi that has spacefaring civilizations getting cranky about needing resources while sitting next to asteroid fields full of the stuff, not to mention all of the uninhabited planets right there waiting to be mined. Space is the opposite of resource scarce.

[factotum]

Which is something that always annoys me about a large chunk of sci-fi that has spacefaring civilizations getting cranky about needing resources while sitting next to asteroid fields full of the stuff, not to mention all of the uninhabited planets right there waiting to be mined. Space is the opposite of resource scarce.

Not sure what SF you're reading, but most of the stuff I read seems to be in partially or entirely post-scarcity societies, where they presumably *do* mine asteroids for resources. The main resource any civilisation needs is energy, of course, which is a slightly different proposition.

[Kato]

Not sure what SF you're reading, but most of the stuff I read seems to be in partially or entirely post-scarcity societies, where they presumably *do* mine asteroids for resources. The main resource any civilisation needs is energy, of course, which is a slightly different proposition.

Eh, I'm sure there are plenty sci-fi stories pretending basic ressources are scarce. Though, I feel like energy shouldn't be much of a problem for a sufficient tech level.
The most convincing scarcity arguments I can go along with (kind of) are biological, because giant farms might help but turning a whole planet in a plantation is still kind of challenging. And not ecologic.

[halfeye]

Eh, I'm sure there are plenty sci-fi stories pretending basic ressources are scarce. Though, I feel like energy shouldn't be much of a problem for a sufficient tech level.
The most convincing scarcity arguments I can go along with (kind of) are biological, because giant farms might help but turning a whole planet in a plantation is still kind of challenging. And not ecologic.

Why would you want to farm planets? a planet has a lot of mass for a relatively tiny sunlit area, you can make farms in space huge with relatively little mass.

[LibraryOgre]

Not sure what SF you're reading, but most of the stuff I read seems to be in partially or entirely post-scarcity societies, where they presumably *do* mine asteroids for resources. The main resource any civilisation needs is energy, of course, which is a slightly different proposition.

A lot of the resource scarcity sci-fi these days tends to be post-apocalyptic, but consider Firefly, or even The Last Jedi, where the scarcity of certain resources drives the plot.

[Peelee]

A lot of the resource scarcity sci-fi these days tends to be post-apocalyptic, but consider Firefly, or even The Last Jedi, where the scarcity of certain resources drives the plot.

I don't know if I'd call The Last Jedi a reference for scarcity. In ESB, when the rebels had to abandon their base due to being discovered by the Empire, they had advance warning of the Empire's arrival and had time to gather supplies and ready an evacuation scenario, complete with plan. In TLJ, the resistance is basically grabbing everything and running pretty much immediately after a major battle. It's unplanned, disorganized, and a mad dash before the FO arrives (side note, did they ever explain how the FO discovered the base? I don't remember that). This means very likely little to no time to refuel their ships, which seems more of a crappy scenario to be in than a scarcity issue.

[halfeye]

I don't know if I'd call The Last Jedi a reference for scarcity. In ESB, when the rebels had to abandon their base due to being discovered by the Empire, they had advance warning of the Empire's arrival and had time to gather supplies and ready an evacuation scenario, complete with plan. In TLJ, the resistance is basically grabbing everything and running pretty much immediately after a major battle. It's unplanned, disorganized, and a mad dash before the FO arrives (side note, did they ever explain how the FO discovered the base? I don't remember that). This means very likely little to no time to refuel their ships, which seems more of a crappy scenario to be in than a scarcity issue.

Star Wars is Sci-fi?

[Rogar Demonblud]

As much as a post-scarcity fantasy is.

[Peelee]

Star Wars is Sci-fi?

I define sci-fi as any story that requires technology not yet invented or existing for the plot. So yeah, sci-fi fantasy space opera all fit.

[deuterio12]

Which is something that always annoys me about a large chunk of sci-fi that has spacefaring civilizations getting cranky about needing resources while sitting next to asteroid fields full of the stuff, not to mention all of the uninhabited planets right there waiting to be mined. Space is the opposite of resource scarce.

Human greed stupidity is infinite, of course in the future we'll still be getting cranky for stupid reasons.

[Kato]

Why would you want to farm planets? a planet has a lot of mass for a relatively tiny sunlit area, you can make farms in space huge with relatively little mass.

Uhm... How ? Building huge colonies just for farming? Seems like a lot of effort for something you can use a planet for. That is assuming your crop is fine with an artificial ecosystem. Maybe I want to grow something living in deep sea, do I build a giant water tank in space?
I mean, I see you can do / try it, but I don't see how it completely removes the problem because depending on the volume of your desired harvest you still need up to infinite space.

[snowblizz]

It's unplanned, disorganized, and a mad dash before the FO arrives (side note, did they ever explain how the FO discovered the base? I don't remember that).

The helpful people taking matters into thier own hands not trusting in experienced leadership who really should know better how to sell your idea to its stakeholders made a sidetrip toa casino. Got caught by the FO and blew the cover on the secret "sneak to unused base on planet while bad guys chase empty ship" plan.

[gomipile]

The helpful people taking matters into thier own hands not trusting in experienced leadership who really should know better how to sell your idea to its stakeholders made a sidetrip toa casino. Got caught by the FO and blew the cover on the secret "sneak to unused base on planet while bad guys chase empty ship" plan.

I think what was meant was: How did the First Order discover the Resistance base they were escaping at the beginning of the movie? Not the one at the end of the movie.

[snowblizz]

I think what was meant was: How did the First Order discover the Resistance base they were escaping at the beginning of the movie? Not the one at the end of the movie.

I briefly wondered if that was the case, I just couldn't remember any other base (the new ones retreading the old films but not quite mushes it all up in my mind). Thinking hard now there might have been some planet in the background of the implausible bit hilarious sapce bombers.

I think I have to go with "a plausible reason that's nto spelled out because it's not improtant" then.

[Peelee]

I briefly wondered if that was the case, I just couldn't remember any other base (the new ones retreading the old films but not quite mushes it all up in my mind). Thinking hard now there might have been some planet in the background of the implausible bit hilarious sapce bombers.

I think I have to go with "a plausible reason that's nto spelled out because it's not improtant" then.

Not important? It's the source of the ticking clock in the third act of TFA and the instigator of the entire plot of TLJ. That seems slightly important. Consider:

ANH - "Finding the hidden base is how we get the ticking clock in the third act, we should explain how that happens. A couple lines of dialogue should do it."

ESB - "Finding the hidden base is the instigator of the entire plot, we should explain how that happens. A couple lines of dialogue should do it."

What, did a couple lines of dialogue take too much time away from the "yo momma" jokes?

[snowblizz]

Not important? It's the source of the ticking clock in the third act of TFA and the instigator of the entire plot of TLJ. That seems slightly important. Consider:

ANH - "Finding the hidden base is how we get the ticking clock in the third act, we should explain how that happens. A couple lines of dialogue should do it."

ESB - "Finding the hidden base is the instigator of the entire plot, we should explain how that happens. A couple lines of dialogue should do it."

What, did a couple lines of dialogue take too much time away from the "yo momma" jokes?

Yes, it clearly wasn't important. I don't even remember it.

[Peelee]

Yes, it clearly wasn't important. I don't even remember it.

The latter does not indicate the former.

[Traab]

Which is something that always annoys me about a large chunk of sci-fi that has spacefaring civilizations getting cranky about needing resources while sitting next to asteroid fields full of the stuff, not to mention all of the uninhabited planets right there waiting to be mined. Space is the opposite of resource scarce.

Most of the ones ive read on that topic tend to be talking about very specific resources. Like, yes, you can find a lot of semi random resources all over the place, but if your requirement is for a specific resource that only exists under specific scenarios, as an example I dimly recall star wars needing gas for weapons and starships that can only be gathered from gas giant worlds and not even all of them. Tibanna gas I think? Oddly enough most of said rare resources tend to be made up.

[LibraryOgre]

So, a fun change, and a bit of a combination of topics:

You have transporter technology, but aren't much for terraforming through the runaway greenhouse... what could you do if you start siphoning big chunks of Venus's core?

[Rogar Demonblud]

If you have the high end sensors to go with the transporter, you can summon pure elements of anything. If funding is an issue, start with platinum. If you need specific resources (palladium, vanadium, gallium, etc), it's just a button push away. You'll need to be careful grabbing any transuranic elements, though.

If you're talking Star Trek transporters, you just grab raw matter, convert to energy, then restore in whatever stored pattern you prefer, completely eliminating mining, refining, transport and manufacturing.