Something strange about Hel and clerics.

[NoHaxJustPi]

Hel’s bet with Thor means she can’t make clerics, but gets the souls of dwarves who didn’t die honorably. However, she DOES have clerics, but they always get killed as the final boss of a dungeon according to her. Are these two facts related somehow, is this a plot hole, or have i gotten something wrong?

[Keltest]

Her clerics are always undead beings, which is why they get killed where, say, Loki's clerics do not. Fenrir may sympathize.

[Caerulea]

Hel’s bet with Thor means she can’t make clerics, but gets the souls of dwarves who didn’t die honorably. However, she DOES have clerics, but they always get killed as the final boss of a dungeon according to her. Are these two facts related somehow, is this a plot hole, or have i gotten something wrong?
She can't make living clerics by giving somebody who worships her spells. She can use undead that have cleric levels, and grant them spells. These undead get killed as the final boss of some dungeon somewhere.

—Caerulea

[Peelee]

She can't make clerics among the living (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1083.html). Non-living clerics are fair game for her.

[NoHaxJustPi]

Thanks for your answers, I get it now. I just hadn’t read that strip recently/closely enough to remember “among the living”

[Aveline]

It occurs to me that Loki forced Hel to have undead clerics, and teaches his followers to destroy the undead. Well, as much as a god can be said to teach in Stickverse.

Bit of a specific pursuit, no? It could be wondered whether the hatred of undead preceded the bet, but I think either way this convenience is a sign that Loki has specific plans not unlike Hel's and may be a Book 7 villain or, uh, metavillain, in some way. (Or perhaps just an expository detail in Book 6.)

Disclaimer: I am not a D&D player so my assessment of undead-hatred as salient may be just plain wrong.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Traditionally, Loki and his clade-mates in Germanic/Slavonic myths are anti undead--Perun in Slavic myth especially due to his rivalry with Kostchie. It has to do with their position as a peasant god, IMHO---nobles have the weapons and armor.

[Lacuna Caster]

Traditionally, Loki and his clade-mates in Germanic/Slavonic myths are anti undead--Perun in Slavic myth especially due to his rivalry with Kostchie. It has to do with their position as a peasant god, IMHO---nobles have the weapons and armor.
Would the slavs and germanics have been closely related, culturally? I didn't think they'd have more in common than germanics and celtics.

[Keltest]

Would the slavs and germanics have been closely related, culturally? I didn't think they'd have more in common than germanics and celtics.

They may have started separate, but from my understanding due to proximity there was fairly substantial exchange of ideas and culture.

[hroþila]

One quibble: Loki is almost or wholly unattested outside of Norse myths.

They may have started separate, but from my understanding due to proximity there was fairly substantial exchange of ideas and culture.
Yeah. The question is tricky, though, because the same applies to the Germanic and Celtic peoples. They're two sets of "closely-related Indo-European cultures".

[Grey_Wolf_c]

One quibble: Loki is almost or wholly unattested outside of Norse myths.

Yeah. The question is tricky, though, because the same applies to the Germanic and Celtic peoples. They're two sets of "closely-related Indo-European cultures".

"Which got smushed into each other by migrations coming in from Asia and constrained from further migration themselves by the presence of the Roman Empire to their South".

Heck, as much as Romans tried to romanize everyone, a significant chunk of their Gaul colonies were a mix of germanic-celt culture since it was, IIRC, a prime spot for sending the various tribes that accepted Roman conditions (disarmament, separation etc.) for resettlement.

Grey Wolf

[MrConsideration]

Would the slavs and germanics have been closely related, culturally? I didn't think they'd have more in common than germanics and celtics.

Their language, culture and religious practice all grew out of a shared proto-Indo-European progenitor, so they have similar motifs - a warrior god associated with storms, for example (Thor, Perun, Thunor etc)

[woweedd]

It occurs to me that Loki forced Hel to have undead clerics, and teaches his followers to destroy the undead. Well, as much as a god can be said to teach in Stickverse.

Bit of a specific pursuit, no? It could be wondered whether the hatred of undead preceded the bet, but I think either way this convenience is a sign that Loki has specific plans not unlike Hel's and may be a Book 7 villain or, uh, metavillain, in some way. (Or perhaps just an expository detail in Book 6.)

Disclaimer: I am not a D&D player so my assessment of undead-hatred as salient may be just plain wrong.

The villain of Book 7 will be Xykon. Loki will, most likely, cease to be important to the plot by the end of this one.

[Fyraltari]

The villain of Book 7 will be Xykon. Loki will, most likely, cease to be important to the plot by the end of this one.

Xykon is not going to be the only villain of book 7. At the very least, Redcloak and the Directors will be too.

[The Pilgrim]

Would the slavs and germanics have been closely related, culturally? I didn't think they'd have more in common than germanics and celtics.

It might be worth to mention that the Rus people, also known as Varangians, came from modern day Sweden and were actually vikings. They had a significant influence over slavic tribes during the "Viking Age" as a merchant and elite ruling class, and were the founders of the first slavic state (the Kievan Rus) - though whether they had already been assimilated into the slavic culture by then or were assimilated briefly later is still a highly debated issue among historians (for obvious national-identity issues).

[Xyril]

The villain of Book 7 will be Xykon. Loki will, most likely, cease to be important to the plot by the end of this one.

I think that Loki has specific plans--that's his thing--but my feeling is that he's not going to be a villain or an antagonist. Hel has a vested interest in destroying the world, and Thor seems to have an affection for his mortals that might have prompted him to act--as much as he can without outright breaking the rules--on the Snarl even without Hel's involvement, but the other gods, including Loki, seem to be much more apathetic on the mortal part of the issue. Yes, they are afraid of the Snarl, and they certainly have their own very different opinions on how long to let this world play out before pulling the plug, but they don't strike me as being particularly concerned with the mortal side of things until Hel showed up.

In terms of the story, I see Loki being one the more prominent figures in a "when giants fight, humans should avoid being stepped on" type situation. I could be wrong, and Rich might try to drastically escalate the role of the deities in all of this, but I think it would be very hard to do so while allowing the protagonists to keep any sort of meaningful agency in the outcome.