Crowley Concept

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Ok so I love the character of Crowley from Supernatural. I love his snark, his witty humor, and his ability to know things and to manipulate people. He is interesting, mysterious, and you just can't help but like him for his charm.

So I am thinking I want a lvl 5 character based on Crowley. I was thinking a Yuan-ti Pureblood for his charm and wit, and just that something bad about them. But I am not sure a class combo to go with the concept.

Bard of course is a good choice, but other than maybe giving him oratory as a performance I don't see him singing his troubles away. But the way Inspiration works I could refluff it almost like a curse or black magic.

Warlock and Sorcerer are really good, fit the flavor of Cha based and magic to boot. But I don't know those classes very well (Especially Warlock). But have heard horrific terrible things about Coffeelock, and honestly that sounds like something Crowley would pull.

[Unoriginal]

Mastermind or Inquisitive Rogue.


But have heard horrific terrible things about Coffeelock, and honestly that sounds like something Crowley would pull.

The only thing that's horrific about the Coffeelock is that people still talk about it when it doesn't work.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Mastermind or Inquisitive Rogue.



The only thing that's horrific about the Coffeelock is that people still talk about it when it doesn't work.

Reading the concept it does seem like it shouldn't really be possible. Not without a lot of cheese.

I will look into the Rogues

[Unoriginal]

Reading the concept it does seem like it shouldn't really be possible. Not without a lot of cheese.

It's not cheese. It literally requires the DM to give you free power.

[Joe the Rat]

Just ignore the Coffeelock.

Warlock seems a good starter, as it bends well to shifty deals and a good amount of dark turns. Fiend pact keeps you on the brimstone flavor. Assuming you aren't just going to 2 and done, I'd lean towards chain - that imp is damn handy.

The appeal of Sorlock is in the metamagics on top of Eldritch Blast, using the pact slots to fuel metamagic. Great blaster. BOOORRRING. Anyone can be a heavy or throw a fusillade of magic missiles and force bolts. You need a bit more of the clever worker, a gatherer of secrets and dabbler of tricks. For Crowley, I'd recommend mixing Warlock with Bard. Social manipulation, mind tricks, charisma synergy. The subtle hand to the warlock's gauntleted fist. Besides, Fergus did know how to juggle.

College of Whispers would feed best into the all-knowing and scheming, but Lore would keep it simple.



On Rogue: Mastermind. All day. Be inscrutable, secrets and lies, and you can Help in combat from a safe distance. Always be at a safe distance.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Just ignore the Coffeelock.

Warlock seems a good starter, as it bends well to shifty deals and a good amount of dark turns. Fiend pact keeps you on the brimstone flavor. Assuming you aren't just going to 2 and done, I'd lean towards chain - that imp is damn handy.

The appeal of Sorlock is in the metamagics on top of Eldritch Blast, using the pact slots to fuel metamagic. Great blaster. BOOORRRING. Anyone can be a heavy or throw a fusillade of magic missiles and force bolts. You need a bit more of the clever worker, a gatherer of secrets and dabbler of tricks. For Crowley, I'd recommend mixing Warlock with Bard. Social manipulation, mind tricks, charisma synergy. The subtle hand to the warlock's gauntleted fist. Besides, Fergus did know how to juggle.

College of Whispers would feed best into the all-knowing and scheming, but Lore would keep it simple.



On Rogue: Mastermind. All day. Be inscrutable, secrets and lies, and you can Help in combat from a safe distance. Always be at a safe distance.

Barlock does seem like a good fit. I was considering Rogue 1/Warlock 2/Bard X but not sure of the viability. I like Rogue for skill profs, and sneak attack. As well as an early Expertise. Crowley was definitely the type to stab you if he thought he could get away with it. And he had the knowledge thing down. And those give 9 skills +3 with Lore and +2 if I went Half-Elf which I don't think really hits the flavor of him but might be something to work with. Eight of that number I can pick freely. If I went something more devious like Yuan-Ti I would lose 2 of those skills but gain Advantage on saves.

[Talionis]

Not sure what you aim to get from Warlock for this build.

Personally I like College of Whispers Bard, possibly 20 by itself it gets you four Expertises. Crowley will want to shoot for ninth level spells like Wish which require Bard 18 for the ninth level Magic Secret.

Rogue would seem appropriate for a dip. But possibly a better dip would be Wizard for on of the school abilities like Enchantment.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Not sure what you aim to get from Warlock for this build.

Personally I like College of Whispers Bard, possibly 20 by itself it gets you four Expertises. Crowley will want to shoot for ninth level spells like Wish which require Bard 18 for the ninth level Magic Secret.

Rogue would seem appropriate for a dip. But possibly a better dip would be Wizard for on of the school abilities like Enchantment.

I was thinking Bard 20 would be just as good, heck if I wanted Eldritch Blast I could just use a feat slot.

Wizard 2/Bard 18 would be very good but I am not sure Crowley would have a hypnotic gaze. But yeah definitely he would want Wish.

[iTreeby]

Need hold person somewhere in the build.

[Rallek25]

Ok so I love the character of Crowley from Supernatural. I love his snark, his witty humor, and his ability to know things and to manipulate people. He is interesting, mysterious, and you just can't help but like him for his charm.

So I am thinking I want a lvl 5 character based on Crowley. I was thinking a Yuan-ti Pureblood for his charm and wit, and just that something bad about them. But I am not sure a class combo to go with the concept.

Bard of course is a good choice, but other than maybe giving him oratory as a performance I don't see him singing his troubles away. But the way Inspiration works I could refluff it almost like a curse or black magic.

Warlock and Sorcerer are really good, fit the flavor of Cha based and magic to boot. But I don't know those classes very well (Especially Warlock). But have heard horrific terrible things about Coffeelock, and honestly that sounds like something Crowley would pull.

First off I love Supernatural and I love Crowley as well. I love this concept that you want to build. I have a few suggestions that I'll throw out to you.

Race: Tiefling
I feel this is the better choice as Crowley comes from hell and Tieflings essentially come from the nine halls if I'm not mistaken and they know Infernal. It fits for the aspect of Hell.

Crowley as you remember was the head guy when it came to the crossroad demons. I feel that Warlock would fit this best and your Patron should be Fiend. You want to work your way up to be the one that future people make pacts with. Plus you can hurl people through Hell which fits perfectly.

Your pact will more than likely be Tome as Crowley doesn't use a familiar nor a weapon.

Warlock will be your main class. I'm thinking 14 levels minimum. Your multiclass will be shadow sorcerer because hell hounds. Crowley is king of the crossroads and king of the hell hounds and theres nothing that screams out Crowley more than having yourself a howling creature of darkness.

I can also see Warlock/Mastermind as Crowley occasionally pops in to say "Hello Moose" in which he provides some sort of guidance/help to Sam and Dean.

Also consider that this character wouldn't be your typical Warlock where he uses Hex all the time. Crowley more so snaps his fingers and something happens instantly.

Also for stats I'm thinking
S 8, D 14 , C 14, I 13, W 10 , Ch 16
I chose Dex over Strength as Crowley doesn't do much heavy lifting. Tends to run away in certain situations. He also doesn't make the wisest decisions with the Winchesters so 10 seems about right in the Wisdom section. He is however smart and witty so a higher Int seems natural.

Those are my thoughts though, but I love this idea.

[Zhorn]

Another vote for Bard.

As far as raw power is concerned, Crowley for the most part is pretty average. His main strengths come from being knowledgeable, charming and well connected. In a scrap, he's usually on the sidelines with someone else doing most of his fighting for him (only saw up to season 10, so it might be different after that).

Shooting for Wish at endgame also makes a lot of sense, but only leaving 2 level makes multiclass a pain (unless I'm missing some other way to get wish before lv18 as a bard?)

[Rallek25]

Another vote for Bard.

As far as raw power is concerned, Crowley for the most part is pretty average. His main strengths come from being knowledgeable, charming and well connected. In a scrap, he's usually on the sidelines with someone else doing most of his fighting for him (only saw up to season 10, so it might be different after that).

Shooting for Wish at endgame also makes a lot of sense, but only leaving 2 level makes multiclass a pain (unless I'm missing some other way to get wish before lv18 as a bard?)

Wouldn't you feel Warlock would be the better choice though? I mean he's the King of Hell. You want him to have that feel that he's from there and that screams Warlock. Then you can grab the Summon greater demon spell as we know he gets his lackeys to do his bidding. He doesn't inspire anyone which is a key component to Bard. Just my opinion though.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Wouldn't you feel Warlock would be the better choice though? I mean he's the King of Hell. You want him to have that feel that he's from there and that screams Warlock. Then you can grab the Summon greater demon spell as we know he gets his lackeys to do his bidding. He doesn't inspire anyone which is a key component to Bard. Just my opinion though.

No but thats dependent on how you view the bard. This isn't 3.5 or PF bard where he hands out buffs like candy. Bardic Inspiration does hand out potential buffs. But Cutting Words (Lore Bard) is about tearing down your enemies, giving them roll reductions through snarky comments and wit. And tearing down people is kind of Crowley's thing. So I can definitely see where that is coming from. Warlock makes a lot of sense too.

Crowley is the sort to sit back and let the boys do the work. So the fiend's level 1 ability would be nearly useless as Crowley would never be the one to drop someone to 0 hp, unless he is landing a last minute hit and kill stealing so to speak.
I can see a Warlock 2/Bard 18 working out, grants him a few level one spells, allowing for 2 uses of hex per short rest. Burning Hands and Command are spells on the bard list too but not having to add them via spells known would be a boon in and of itself.

[Zhorn]

Wouldn't you feel Warlock would be the better choice though?
Personally? not particularly. While it could be argued he did make a bargin (as would be for a warlock) he didn't do it for power (very unlike a warlock). What he did sell his soul for... well the answer to that one just screams bard :smallwink:

you can grab the Summon greater demon spell as we know he gets his lackeys to do his bidding.
Can pick those up with Magical Secrets if needs be.

He doesn't inspire anyone which is a key component to Bard. Just my opinion though.
I don't know... He did inspire OP to make a Crawley character :smallbiggrin:

[RickAsWritten]

I'm sorry but there is only one true Crowley, and he is a character in Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch. That said, they sound somewhat similar. Looks like Supernatural did some super-borrowing-of-source-material.

Good Omens Crowley is probably either a Tiefling or a Yuan-Ti Pureblood(or maybe a Fallen Aasimar) and is some combination of Sorcerer, Warlock and/or Rogue.

Aziraphale is probably a Protector Aasimar, and some combination of Sorcerer, Cleric, and/or Wizard.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Definitely a Whispers Bard. It's not the strongest subclass, but come on-- literally half of its abilities are "screw with your mind just by talking at you," and backstabbing and that wonky shadow-stealing thing both seem fitting as well. Warlock is much too in-your-face for how Crowley usually operates; you want to in the back throwing enchantments around.

If you want to dip, a couple levels of Sorcerer for Subtle Spell would not go amiss either.