AmeVulpes
2019-02-19, 02:57 AM
This thread might be a little strange, but I want to brainstorm with fellow Playgrounders a bit!
I only care because I like explaining how things work in graphic detail, and my players demand that things make sense.
Example 1:
Flames as bright as a torch appear in your open hand. The flames harm neither you nor your equipment.
In addition to providing illumination, the flames can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing fire damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Alternatively, you can hurl the flames up to 120 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged touch attack (with no range penalty) and deal the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the flames than a new set appears in your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.
This spell does not function underwater.
Benefit
You choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When employing a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. The altered spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.
The altered spell works normally in all respects except the type of damage dealt.
I know RAW doesn't make sense all the time. Clearly a ball of sonic in your hand (whatever the hells that means) shouldn't be "providing illumination." Should it make noise in the same area? That's probably outright homebrewing, but I'm interested in your opinions on that.
Should it still not work underwater?
Tome and Blood has a sidebar about this! (and example 2:)
If a spell has a secondary effect, so does the altered version. For example, a shout spell can deafen creatures and deals extra damage to crystalline creatures. If fire is substituted for sonic energy, the altered shout spell still has these effects[1,4,5], but deals fire damage instead of sonic. Sometimes, however, a spell’s minor effects are directly related to its energy type[2]: for example, a fireball can set things alight, but a sonic or acid fireball cannot.[3]
[1] Why?
[2] I would say that the deafen and double damage against crystalline creatures are directly related to sonic damage. Is that a stretch?
[3] This makes sense, but then why does a fire-subbed shout still deafen?
[4] Should a Fortitude save really halve the fire damage? Really? (see Shout (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shout))
[5] Can the fire damage not penetrate an area of Silence?
My best reading of this says that Produce Flame (sonic-subbed) still produces light (WHAT) and doesn't work underwater.
Does Freezing Sphere (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Freezing_Sphere) dealing Fire damage freeze a body of water? Does it instead boil it? Does it deal extra to Water Elementals?
Does Ice Storm (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ice_Storm) dealing Electric damage reduce land movement to one half? It definitely does blugeoning damage, but how? Electrically charged ice balls?
Heat Metal (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Heat_Metal) deals half damage and boils water against submerged targets, while Chill Metal (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Chill_Metal) deals no damage underwater and causes the target to float by freezing said water. How about a Heat Metal subbed for cold? Chill Metal subbed for acid?
Take Shatter (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shatter) and deal fire damage. Does it still break glass into tiny pieces?
Can anyone think of, say, some guidelines, to not arbitrate the hundreds of energy spells on a case-by-case basis?
Because magic, /thread./s
I only care because I like explaining how things work in graphic detail, and my players demand that things make sense.
Example 1:
Flames as bright as a torch appear in your open hand. The flames harm neither you nor your equipment.
In addition to providing illumination, the flames can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing fire damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Alternatively, you can hurl the flames up to 120 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged touch attack (with no range penalty) and deal the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the flames than a new set appears in your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.
This spell does not function underwater.
Benefit
You choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When employing a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. The altered spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.
The altered spell works normally in all respects except the type of damage dealt.
I know RAW doesn't make sense all the time. Clearly a ball of sonic in your hand (whatever the hells that means) shouldn't be "providing illumination." Should it make noise in the same area? That's probably outright homebrewing, but I'm interested in your opinions on that.
Should it still not work underwater?
Tome and Blood has a sidebar about this! (and example 2:)
If a spell has a secondary effect, so does the altered version. For example, a shout spell can deafen creatures and deals extra damage to crystalline creatures. If fire is substituted for sonic energy, the altered shout spell still has these effects[1,4,5], but deals fire damage instead of sonic. Sometimes, however, a spell’s minor effects are directly related to its energy type[2]: for example, a fireball can set things alight, but a sonic or acid fireball cannot.[3]
[1] Why?
[2] I would say that the deafen and double damage against crystalline creatures are directly related to sonic damage. Is that a stretch?
[3] This makes sense, but then why does a fire-subbed shout still deafen?
[4] Should a Fortitude save really halve the fire damage? Really? (see Shout (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shout))
[5] Can the fire damage not penetrate an area of Silence?
My best reading of this says that Produce Flame (sonic-subbed) still produces light (WHAT) and doesn't work underwater.
Does Freezing Sphere (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Freezing_Sphere) dealing Fire damage freeze a body of water? Does it instead boil it? Does it deal extra to Water Elementals?
Does Ice Storm (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ice_Storm) dealing Electric damage reduce land movement to one half? It definitely does blugeoning damage, but how? Electrically charged ice balls?
Heat Metal (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Heat_Metal) deals half damage and boils water against submerged targets, while Chill Metal (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Chill_Metal) deals no damage underwater and causes the target to float by freezing said water. How about a Heat Metal subbed for cold? Chill Metal subbed for acid?
Take Shatter (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shatter) and deal fire damage. Does it still break glass into tiny pieces?
Can anyone think of, say, some guidelines, to not arbitrate the hundreds of energy spells on a case-by-case basis?
Because magic, /thread./s