What +0 LA templates exist for Humans to become Outsiders?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

I didn't notice any such templates here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?281882-3-5-Master-Template-List-(sorted)), but there may be something missing from that list.

I'm aware there are LA0 (Native) Outsiders, but those aren't the point now. I wanted to know if I, via templating, could turn a Silverbrow Human into an Outsider for no LA. (Feats and other means don't count for this case.)

All 3.5 sources are allowed including web and magazine articles. Unupdated 3.0 stuff is also OK. Assume no Pathfinder.

Thankee!

[OgresAreCute]

Throw on the Otherwordly feat from one of those wacky Faerun books? It's not a template, but you have a bonus feat...

Edit: Player's Guide to Faerun, that is.

[Troacctid]

For humans specifically? There are no such templates. You can do it with +0 LA in various ways, but not through a template, unless you're a drow or half-drow.

[Thurbane]

Aside from the feat suggested above, best I know of is Mulhorandi Divine Minion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a), and that starts at LA +1.

There's also several classes and PrCs that turn you into an outsider as the capstone...

...and while not what you asked for, the Neraph is an LA +0 outsider playable race.

[AmeVulpes]

There's also several classes and PrCs that turn you into an outsider as the capstone...

I almost commented this about Monks, it has a "treated as" clause, not changing your type but treating you as one for magic effects.
Rangers with Favored Enemy: Human would still murder them among other things.

I don't know about other classes and PrCs, so I'm not trying to undermine Thurbane here, just advise OP to proceed with caution and attention.

[Endarire]

I was pretty sure there were no such templates, but thanks for the info!

What templates exist for (Half-)Drow?

[Thurbane]

I don't know about other classes and PrCs, so I'm not trying to undermine Thurbane here, just advise OP to proceed with caution and attention.

You are correct about Monk and several others - some classes don't genuinely change type to outsider.

Some do though: Acolyte of the Skin, Alienist, Divine Crusader, Incandescent Champion, Troubadour of Stars etc.

[Troacctid]

I was pretty sure there were no such templates, but thanks for the info!

What templates exist for (Half-)Drow?
Vhaerath. http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040818a

[ShurikVch]

I know about 4 templates with LA +0 which change type to Outsider and could be applied to a Human:
Petitioner (Manual of the Planes)
Ghost (Ghostwalk)
Einherjar (Deities and Demigods) - required Good alignment and 10 levels in Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, or Paladin
Demon Lord (Dragon #359) - required CR at least 22

[AmeVulpes]

Petitioner (Manual of the Planes)


This template is so very expensive. No skills, no feats, cannot benefit from armor (specifically, only apply size, dex, and natural armor). Nukes any hit dice you have and replaces them with 2 levels of outsider when you get it.

Questionable if you can even level up with it, but if you can... I guess if you really want this.

Also, great catch on the ghost.

[ShurikVch]

This template is so very expensive. No skills, no featsIf your DM allowed you to play as Petitioner, try to ask for Exceptional Petitioner:
Exceptional Petitioners
The deities may choose particular servants for specific tasks who may remember something of their previous selves. These exceptional petitioners retain the feats and skills that they had in life but are otherwise limited as the other petitioners of their plane are.:smallwink:


cannot benefit from armor (specifically, only apply size, dex, and natural armor).:smalleek: Oops!


Nukes any hit dice you have and replaces them with 2 levels of outsider when you get it.But if all your HD are class HD, you wouldn't lose much - as long as your PC become Petitioner at level 2 (or 1)

The other unmentioned problem - loss of (Sp) and (Su)...

[Thurbane]

I know about 4 templates with LA +0 which change type to Outsider and could be applied to a Human:
Petitioner (Manual of the Planes)
Ghost (Ghostwalk)
Einherjar (Deities and Demigods) - required Good alignment and 10 levels in Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, or Paladin
Demon Lord (Dragon #359) - required CR at least 22

Interesting.

Being 3.0 material for the first three, LA wasn't really a thing back then. Did any update booklets ever list an LA for the templates?

I believe Ghostwalk Ghost was intended to be an LA +0 template, so as to be playable in that specific setting...in fact, the update booklet specifically lists LA +0 for a sample ghost.

The update booklet for Deities and Demigods in conspicuously silent on LA for Einherjar...

If ruled as LA +0 ("An einherjar uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here."), divine rank 0 is pretty amazing. This could be the boost that mundanes have been searching for!


Quasi-Deity Traits: Immune to transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects; damage reduction 10/epic; fire resistance 5; spell resistance 32; immortal.

+30 ft base land speed and the Good subtype as well.

[Troacctid]

The update booklet states that level adjustments are not included for creatures that are unsuitable as PCs. So if no LA is listed, assume it was updated to LA: —.

[HouseRules]

In 3.0, Fiend Folio also says if the LA + RHD > 20, then LA is not listed.

[Bphill561]

Not sure about +0 on a human, but there is the half-fiend savage progressions. You can take the level later, and the first level grants you the outsider type. I find it amusing to advance it with the uncanny trickster depending on what build you are using (ie, not a caster). There is also the half-fiendish variety web enhancement that lets you adjust the bonuses. It won't let me post the links for some reason, but easy google searches.

[ShurikVch]

The update booklet states that level adjustments are not included for creatures that are unsuitable as PCs. So if no LA is listed, assume it was updated to LA: —.It's for creatures - templates are different

[Thurbane]

The whole "no mention of LA = LA +0" for templates deal has been debated for some time, as recently as here: Spellstitched Undead are LA:- (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581032)

I'd be pleasantly surprised if we reached a consensus here...


Level Adjustment: A level adjustment is specified here for
every monster that could be an appropriate Player Character or
cohort in a D&D campaign below 20th level. As in the revised
Monster Manual, level adjustments are not included for monsters
whose level adjustment would make them epic-level characters,
as well as for creatures with an Intelligence score of 2 or less and
others deemed inappropriate for use as PCs or cohorts.

[ShurikVch]

Well, the thing is:
Level Adjustment:is no different from any other entry in the template description - such as
Speed:or even
Appearance:Thus, claiming "lack of mentioned LA == complete lack of LA" will also automatically force us to presume any template which lacks the "Speed:" entry makes creature immobile (and lacking "Appearance:" - invisible)
Heck, not even "Abilities:" is constant - but does it means templates which are lacking it turn creature into "Str —, Dex —, Con —, Int —, Wis —, Cha —"? :smallamused:

[Thurbane]

Well in this particular case, I'd be relatively happy for the outcome to be LA +0.

Yes, the benefits are out of line with most other LA +0 templates (and even most LA +1 templates), but seeing as you have to suck up 10 levels in a mundane class (well, technically A-game Paladin 10 would still qualify), I could live with it.

From a role-playing/fluff perspective though, what happens? Are you at the beck and call of Odin? Do you need to live out the rest of your immortal days in the battlefields and mead halls of the Outer Planes? I mean, sounds like a pretty awesome existence, but doesn't really mesh with the typical adventuring agenda...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It's backwards, but a neraph with the Human Heritage or Human Blood feats (he had a human as his grandsire) technically counts as an outsider-slash-human for 0 LA.

[Troacctid]

Well, the thing is:is no different from any other entry in the template description - such asor evenThus, claiming "lack of mentioned LA == complete lack of LA" will also automatically force us to presume any template which lacks the "Speed:" entry makes creature immobile (and lacking "Appearance:" - invisible)
Heck, not even "Abilities:" is constant - but does it means templates which are lacking it turn creature into "Str —, Dex —, Con —, Int —, Wis —, Cha —"? :smallamused:
It's different because the update booklet calls out LA as being deliberately excluded. Does it do that for any other qualities?

[ShurikVch]

It's different because the update booklet calls out LA as being deliberately excluded. Does it do that for any other qualities?What update manual?
Care to quote?

[Troacctid]

What update manual?
Care to quote?
...The one that's already been cited multiple times in this thread, including in a quote in the post directly above yours?

[torrasque666]

...The one that's already been cited multiple times in this thread, including in a quote in the post directly above yours?
They call it out for creatures, not templates.

[ShurikVch]

...The one that's already been cited multiple times in this thread, including in a quote in the post directly above yours?Ah, I see...
This one (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD35_Monster_Manual_2.zip).
Thanks!

But in that case - the quoted text is patently false, since I'm unable to find any monsters for which "level adjustments are not included" - despite it's chock-full of creatures with "LA —"

But even if by the "not included" they meant "LA —", it's still point to "LA +0 as default" camp - since lack of mentioned LA means also lack of "LA —"