Item choice: Daern's instant fortress vs cube of force

[Khazidhea87]

Hi all,

I'm a relatively new player, to both D&D (6 months) and AL (3 months), and I was hoping for some advice on choosing between items after I finish the second part of White Plume Mountain.

I initially asked about item choice elsewhere and received many great recommendations, but for one reason or another I've narrowed down my choice to either the Cube of Force, or Daern's Instant Fortress. However I've been going back and forth between the two and can't make up my mind which to go for. If you have any advice I'm all ears!

Character: Goblin (my +1 is Volo's), OH monk 7, War cleric 1, Rogue 1 (stealth and athletics expertise). Likely only taking more monk in future levels. Stats S12, D18, C14, I8, W16, C8. Melee fighter, but don't stay in one place for long.

Items: Slippers of Spider Climbing, a Cloak of Displacement, and a short sword +2

Most of the AL games I play are one offs, not ongoing HCs, with different DMs and players.

Daern's:
Pros: Good defence, gives a damage option, doesn't use an attunement slot. From what I've seen it's generally well recommended.
Cons: Less mobility (Fixed in one spot), some limits on usage (needs to be used on the ground, presumably within enough space), needs healing over time.

Cube: Variable defence (can adjust for different situations), can keep mobile
Cons: Field of effect is smallish (room for me and those directly next to me), could trap/disrupt teammates if used poorly, even the smallest object can block movement, uses an attunement slot. Haven't seen many recommendations for it.

I don't like to overly optimise my build but I'd like to choose something that will remain useful for a while. The nonattunement of Daern's is appealing, but I'm not sure how often I'd use it. The Cube is appealing on paper, but if it's not going to be useful for long or if it's defective in practice then I'd rather choose differently. Please halp.

[Azgeroth]

im gonna vote for CoF.

Daern's sounds awesome, but in practise it won't come in to use often.

CoF though, not only has defensive uses but offensive ones aswell, you can lock down an enemy, or protect a fallen ally, create an obstruction or bottleneck, you just have to be creative with uses, which are great deal more varied than Daern's, especially with you playing AL and not having a consistent party, or campaign, you want as much versatility out of this as possible. and CoF wins hands down.

[Keravath]

For AL, I would tend to not take Daern's Instant Fortress.
- use is extremely situational and it benefits only characters with a ranged option
- most AL modules don't have a great place where it could be used
- if it gets damaged then you need multiple wish spells to fix it .. I don't know how that would work in AL and whether damage would carry over from session to session. It likely would.
- however, it is exceptionally cool :) (in a regular campaign it would provide a safer place for a long rest though Leomund's Tiny Hut would probably do that better.

Cube of Force is also an interesting choice but there are some considerations.
- action economy - it takes an action to turn it on so you won't be attacking on the first round of combat unless you can turn it on just prior to combat.
- it is a very flexible tool - it can provide a zone that is safe from spell effects ... or one that is safe from melee attacks (keeps out living matter) or safe from ranged attacks (keeps out non-living objects).
- however, function is open to a lot of DM interpretation. If you set it to keep out living matter this makes you immune to natural attacks from a monster but you also won't be able to get within 5' to attack (ranged works). If a character is affected by a bless spell and tries to enter a cube that keeps out spell effects ... can they enter? If they do, does the spell effect end? As far as I can tell the cube should not affect concentration on spells but it when set to preventing spell effects from crossing the barrier ... does this prevent casting of spells outside the barrier or only spell effects crossing the barrier? LOTS of DM interpretation. The item also allows wall/floors/ceilings to pass through at your discretion. However, what constitutes a floor or wall? Is a boulder sitting on the floor part of the floor? Presumably furniture is not a part of the walls/floors/ceilings but this then means that you would have to either push them out of the way (if the DM allows it) or you get stuck.

- Finally, one of my AL characters has a Cube of Force from playing an epic a couple of years ago and it hasn't been as useful as I would have hoped (but my character is a multiclass Ranger/Cleric).

Probably the most common use of the cube would be to keep out spell effects ... though this would also prevent beneficial spells like bless or heal from passing through as well.

Between the two, I would still take the cube. However, you will soon have the ability to run up walls so you might want to look into something like winged boots to give you a fly speed equal to your usual speed ... this works really well for a monk and provides for more maneuverability than the slippers in the long run.

[Rukelnikov]

If it was a regular game, I'd say Daern's since it's safe-and-comfortable adventuring in a can. However, for AL one-shots I doubt how often its gonna come into play, you would know this better than anyone here.

On the other hand, the Cube of Force is one of the closest things to invulnerability that the game has, but it costs you an action to activate, it will take an attunement slot (you only have 2 right now, but in the future you never know), and it may backfire on you if not careful, consider that turning it off also takes an action.

If I were you, I'd probably look for something else. If you are dead set between these 2... I'd pick Daern's only if you are regularly feeling a need for it.

Have you considered Necklace of Prayer Beads? Being a Cleric you can attune to it, and being a Monk it probably fits fluffwise? I'm not well versed in the rules of AL and items, but from what I read I understand that you can change magic items for others of the same cost during downtime, right? So... if you don't like what you rolled on your necklace, just change it for another one next downtime, untill you get more or less what you want.

[Khazidhea87]

im gonna vote for CoF.

Thanks heaps for your reply! Your view largely backs up what I've been thinking. Daern's sounds great, but the last few games I've played it wouldn't have been used at all. Still would be a nice option to have in my pocket, but I don't know if it would get enough use to justify getting.

And I like the sound of CoF, versatility is high on my list. I may not be creative enough to use it well all the time, but that might just push me to think outside the box!

[Khazidhea87]

For AL, I would tend to not take Daern's Instant Fortress.

Cube of Force is also an interesting choice but there are some considerations.
- action economy - it takes an action to turn it on so you won't be attacking on the first round of combat unless you can turn it on just prior to combat.
- however, function is open to a lot of DM interpretation.

Between the two, I would still take the cube. However, you will soon have the ability to run up walls so you might want to look into something like winged boots to give you a fly speed equal to your usual speed ... this works really well for a monk and provides for more maneuverability than the slippers in the long run.

Thank you for your response! I don't know enough about higher levels (or really AL) to know what's coming, so I've been largely reactive (based off the last game or two) in choosing my items.

I could see myself using Daern's more with another character, or in a longer campaign. It's just so cool though that I've kept it on my want list.

And thanks for expanding on how the Cube might work in practice, that's much of what I was looking for when I created this thread. I hadn't really considered action economy at all, so I'll have to work that into my considerations. I think I'm so enamoured with the idea of it that it'll be hard to take of my list, and I may well go for it anyway in spite of better options.

I've heard of the boots before, and they're definitely a great option. The main reasons I've taken them out of consideration is due to RP reasons, otherwise they'd definitely be near the top of the list.

[Khazidhea87]

If it was a regular game, I'd say Daern's [...] However, for AL one-shots I doubt how often its gonna come into play.

On the other hand, the Cube of Force is one of the closest things to invulnerability that the game has [... but] it may backfire on you if not careful.

Have you considered Necklace of Prayer Beads? [...] You can change magic items for others of the same cost during downtime, right? So... if you don't like what you rolled on your necklace, just change it for another one next downtime, until you get more or less what you want.

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it! I think with what I've heard so far I might move Daern's down my list a fair bit. It sounds great in general, but for my character and for AL it might not be the best choice :(

I really like how invulnerability sounds, it fits in well RP-wise with my character (a scaredy-cat, but thinks he's under a geas which makes him have to accept adventuring requests). I've got a few bonus action things to do (even without attacking) that I might be able to get some use out of the first round of combat if I want to use it. Spell protection, creating a wall for allies, or getting up next to just one enemy and trapping him with me without fear of being surrounded are what particularly appeals with the Cube. However I'm wary of it backfiring on me as you said, or of it just not living up to it's potential (on paper).

I've considered NoPB, it was one of the top contenders (probably third on my list) until narrowing down to these two. If I could guarantee getting a few of the higher level beads I'd be all for it, and OoC I'd be all for it regardless outcome, but RP wise it only partially fits if I mostly ended up with bless and healing. I think I'd still get good use of it through much of tier 3, but might retire it after that. I'm not familiar with AL enough to be sure how it works with items, but I think if I buy something I'm stuck with it, unless I can find someone willing to trade for it. I'll clarify it next time I play, if I can just reroll for it/trade it out for something else on the list then this would be a better option to go for.

If you or others are curious about the other options I was considering they included:

Mantle of Spell Resistance, and Bracers of Defence (I have a passive defence item already. Doubling up would be a solid choice, but I think I'll go for something more active).
The constitution belt, or a Belt of Hill Giant (good choices in general, but nothing that stands out highly character wise)
A summon item (Horn of Valhalla, FoWP, elemental) (nifty items, but often play with a full table and I'd rather not extend my turn too much)
Ring of Spell Storing (would be great if I had a reliable source of spells, but with random tables I'd rather choose an option that doesn't rely on others)
Winged boots, or Helm of Teleportation (Again great options, improving my character's movement appeals a lot, but for RP reasons I'd rather not extend it as far as flying)

[Rukelnikov]

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it! I think with what I've heard so far I might move Daern's down my list a fair bit. It sounds great in general, but for my character and for AL it might not be the best choice :(

You're welcome :smallwink:


I really like how invulnerability sounds, it fits in well RP-wise with my character (a scaredy-cat, but thinks he's under a geas which makes him have to accept adventuring requests). I've got a few bonus action things to do (even without attacking) that I might be able to get some use out of the first round of combat if I want to use it. Spell protection, creating a wall for allies, or getting up next to just one enemy and trapping him with me without fear of being surrounded are what particularly appeals with the Cube. However I'm wary of it backfiring on me as you said, or of it just not living up to it's potential (on paper).

Well, it really lives up to the potential in terms of protection, what I mean't when I said backfiring was maybe turning it on for some reason, and at the next round having to turn it off. If it didn't protect you that round, you spent 2 rounds and charges for nothing, maybe you choose to leave out non-living matter expecting arrows and they fling a fireball your way, or the other way round. Nevertheless its an awesome item, if you are willing to spend 5 charges NOTHING goes thru for up to 1 minute.


I've considered NoPB, it was one of the top contenders (probably third on my list) until narrowing down to these two. If I could guarantee getting a few of the higher level beads I'd be all for it, and OoC I'd be all for it regardless outcome, but RP wise it only partially fits if I mostly ended up with bless and healing. I think I'd still get good use of it through much of tier 3, but might retire it after that. I'm not familiar with AL enough to be sure how it works with items, but I think if I buy something I'm stuck with it, unless I can find someone willing to trade for it. I'll clarify it next time I play, if I can just reroll for it/trade it out for something else on the list then this would be a better option to go for.

Yeah, I had something similar happen to me, I got 1 Bless and 3 Greater Restorations, 1 would have been good, but most of the time I didn't have any use for those. Knowing you have to spend treasure points to then have to gamble is not a good idea, only take it if you are sure you can exchange it for something else of the same "cost" in case you don't like what you get



If you or others are curious about the other options I was considering they included:
Mantle of Spell Resistance, and Bracers of Defence (I have a passive defence item already. Doubling up would be a solid choice, but I think I'll go for something more active).


Both those are good if you want more protection, if you are being severy hurt by either magic or regular attacks those can work.



The constitution belt, or a Belt of Hill Giant (good choices in general, but nothing that stands out highly character wise)


I'd say no to the Con one, yeah you get a +2 which is a significant ammount of HP and saves but... I think there are better investments to be made.
The Str one grants you Str 21, right? If it was 23 I would go for that, +2 att/dam is pretty great, +1 is nothing to scoff at, but not a must have either.



A summon item (Horn of Valhalla, FoWP, elemental) (nifty items, but often play with a full table and I'd rather not extend my turn too much)


The Horn is absurdly powerful, I consider it to be extremely OP, especially since it doesn't even require attunement! It does, however, slow down the game a lot, I had it on a cleric (the same one that got the beads), and when I used it, we would distribute the berserkers between the table, so I wasn't using 10 summons, we were all using 2 summons each.



Ring of Spell Storing (would be great if I had a reliable source of spells, but with random tables I'd rather choose an option that doesn't rely on others)
Winged boots, or Helm of Teleportation (Again great options, improving my character's movement appeals a lot, but for RP reasons I'd rather not extend it as far as flying)


RoSS is great but as you said, relies too much on who your party members are, and the other 2 options don't seem to fit you RP wise from what you say.

Stick with the Cube, its what you wanted, and you'll make good use of it.

[Khazidhea87]

Stick with the Cube, its what you wanted, and you'll make good use of it.

Thanks again. I think now that I've got these options down in writing and with the help of an outside perspective or three, this has really clarified things. Instead of having an option I like and trying to talk myself into considering other 'better' options, I'll just go with my gut and choose the Cube and make the best of it regardless of whether it's good in practice or not!

[Rukelnikov]

Thanks again. I think now that I've got these options down in writing and with the help of an outside perspective or three, this has really clarified things. Instead of having an option I like and trying to talk myself into considering other 'better' options, I'll just go with my gut and choose the Cube and make the best of it regardless of whether it's good in practice or not!

Glad to be of help, have fun with your new toy!