Walker in the Waste Questions

[Ozzie831]

Hey everyone thanks for stopping by.


Ive been in the middle of building a Walker in the Waste character for a few weeks now. Ive posted on here a couple times now over the past few weeks but I keep running into more and more things to have questions about. Ive noticed that the Sandstorm book is a bit lack luster in the details department.

First off: Im a bit confused on the Desiccating Touch ability. Its a touch attack, but it doesnt specify whether if its melee or ranged. I feel its supposed to be melee, just based on how i read it; however as a caster class, I would love it to be ranged. Im not sure if there is a rule somewhere that states if a touch attack is untyped then it defaults to melee.

Salt mummies: How the hell is Salt Mummy created? The book is suuuuuper vague on how they are made (like how long it takes to make them? is it a standard action? Is it spell based? Do i physically have to mummify the thing myself?).

Everything is so vague that Im more than happy to take the best case scenarios.



Also, Im completely lost on what Prestige class to take. I was looking at that Mr. Icy-Hot build and going Winterhaunt of Iborighu but Im going to take the creators revised build and just get the 2 mantle spells from Sandstorm and Frostburn.

Then I was trying to find ways to become immune to all the other energy types but Electricity, Acid, Sonic, Force, Good, etc are super hard to get in comparison to Fire and Cold Mantles. Also it being even remotely effective in game.

I recently finished watching the anime show Overlord so I was trying to make a build based off the main character who was a super over powered undead mage who was so over powered he was basically immune to everything and could pretty much 1 shot anything.

Im using some early entry cheese with the level 1 Generic Spellcaster to enter WitW at level 2 (DM approved). So thats leaves me with 9 Levels to fill. That could be any combination of prestige classes. Like a 5 level prestige class and 4 levels of something else. Or 9 levels out of a 10 level prestige class.

I was contemplating going the Minionmancer route but I figured since WitW already gets 2 minions that I figured I dont really need to be controlling 20 creatures. So I decided to just continue on the spell caster path. If I can find a good full caster progression class, then I can still get to 9th level spells. Since I lose the 2 levels from WitW.

Ive been staring at Troacctid's list of all 3.5 prestige classes that progress spellcasting for like the past 3 days. I came across a few classes that seemed cool or decent. Like the Scorpion variant of the Arachnomancer class was pretty cool and matches the flavor. But I thought I would ask your guys opinions since I dont know jack about casters.


Sorry for the huge brick. Thanks for making it to the end and I appreciate any advice.

[Dalmosh]

Since create Salt Mummy is specifically a "specialised form of the ancient art of mummification", I'd fall back on rules for creating mummies...

By default, that would be the spell Create Undead.

I would rule that you gain a specialised form of Create Undead, that only produces Salt Mummies, this would seem to be an at-will Spell Like Ability not requiring material components.


You need 1. A corpse
2. A standard action
3. You can only do this at night time.

[Ozzie831]

Dang. Type out a huge brick and getting like 0 love.


Since create Salt Mummy is specifically a "specialised form of the ancient art of mummification", I'd fall back on rules for creating mummies...

By default, that would be the spell Create Undead.

I would rule that you gain a specialised form of Create Undead, that only produces Salt Mummies, this would seem to be an at-will Spell Like Ability not requiring material components.

You need 1. A corpse
2. A standard action
3. You can only do this at night time.


Thanks for the response.

I can see how that would work but would it only be a standard action? Create undead has an hour long cast time. Dont get me wrong, I would totally take it as a standard action. Also since its based off the Create Undead spell, do you think that qualifies the Salt Mummies for the Corpsecrafter Feats from Libris Mortis?

[Khedrac]

First off: Im a bit confused on the Desiccating Touch ability. Its a touch attack, but it doesnt specify whether if its melee or ranged. I feel its supposed to be melee, just based on how i read it; however as a caster class, I would love it to be ranged. Im not sure if there is a rule somewhere that states if a touch attack is untyped then it defaults to melee.
Actually "touch attacks" and "ranged touch attacks" are almost completely different things, so unless it says "ranged" it isn't ranged.
For another, if it was a ranged attack it woudl have to give its range and whether range increments apply.


Sorry for the huge brick. Thanks for making it to the end and I appreciate any advice.
That's not a "brick" - you formatted it, breaking it into paragraphs etc. :smallsmile: If you look around you will find real "bricks" - single paragraph posts over twice as long as yours (if we are lucky, with punctuation). Your post was a nicely formatted set of questions, most of which I don't have answers to. :smallfrown:

[Silva Stormrage]

As mentioned above anything that just says "Touch attack" means melee touch attack. Ranged touched attacks are specifically called out.

The salt mummy ability was unfinished. Welcome to WoTC's wonderful editing and work with your DM to figure out a way to get it in usable condition XD.

As for PRC's to take? Well it really depends on what style of caster you want and thats probably why you haven't gotten that many responses.

Are you going buffing route? Metamagic for damage? Save or Dies?

Shadowcraft mage could fit in your build but it's a fairly complicated build for someone who isn't that familiar with spellcasters. And locks you into the gnome race

Thaumaturgist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/thaumaturgist.htm) Is also a good 5 level PRC that gets you a cohort at the end which might be nice but you said you weren't going the minionmancy route.

Fate spinner is also a good 5 level PRC that you can fit in but the last level loses another caster level.

Mage of the Arcane Order gives you some great versatility if you want it.

Are you a divine or arcane spellcaster?

[Dalmosh]

Oh yeah, miles away sorry.

I'd rule it takes the same casting time as Create Undead, so 1 hr.
And absolutely it qualifies for Corpse Crafter and related feats.

[Falontani]

Salt mummies are found as a tiny blurb at the end of WitW, however they have an actual entry in (iirc) mm2 or 3.

Since WitW is traditionally a divine spellcaster I will be looking only into divine spellcasting classes:
Contemplative is a good 1 level dip that gives you access to a domain. Domains are something to always enjoy.
Divine Oracle is a nice one to enjoy a different kind of evasion as well as the Oracle domain which isn't bad.

With 1 warlock level you can qualify for eldritch disciple which would mean you don't lose your ninths and get some fun add ons.

Another fun route *cough* take the feats track, and wild empathy (available to generic classes) and enter Abolisher. This grants you wild shape as a druid. Then enter into Planar Shepherd for full spellcasting and a large number of fun planar abilities. If your in Eberron choose Lamania or Fernia to continue your desert theme.

[Telonius]

Salt mummies are found as a tiny blurb at the end of WitW, however they have an actual entry in (iirc) mm2 or 3.



Monster Manual 3, page 146.

Unfortunately it doesn't give any clear info about creating one, just fluff that they're mostly ancient people with sins on their souls that were buried next to salt deposits.

[Ozzie831]

Thanks everyone for the input on the Touch attack part. I figured it was melee but Ive learned to never presume anything, or how I personally would perceive it, when it comes to the vagueness of D&D.




As mentioned above anything that just says "Touch attack" means melee touch attack. Ranged touched attacks are specifically called out.

The salt mummy ability was unfinished. Welcome to WoTC's wonderful editing and work with your DM to figure out a way to get it in usable condition XD.

As for PRC's to take? Well it really depends on what style of caster you want and thats probably why you haven't gotten that many responses.

Are you going buffing route? Metamagic for damage? Save or Dies?

Shadowcraft mage could fit in your build but it's a fairly complicated build for someone who isn't that familiar with spellcasters. And locks you into the gnome race

Thaumaturgist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/thaumaturgist.htm) Is also a good 5 level PRC that gets you a cohort at the end which might be nice but you said you weren't going the minionmancy route.

Fate spinner is also a good 5 level PRC that you can fit in but the last level loses another caster level.

Mage of the Arcane Order gives you some great versatility if you want it.

Are you a divine or arcane spellcaster?

Alright to answer your questions.
Ill have to talk to the DM about the Salt mummy situation. A 1 hour hour cast time just blows... Also only being able to cast it at night.

Im going to answer a few peoples questions in this part.
My character will be a Human (extra feat plus skill points are too handy with this class setup), so that rules out Shadowcraft.

Arcane based with CHA as the ability score. However since he is a Generic Spellcaster, he may select spells known from the cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists. Which is super sweet. However, there is 2 spell that will definitely be in my arsenal: Spectral hand and Shivering touch. I thought making my enemy helpless and just coup de grace-ing everything would be historical. Also screw dragons...

I have never actually played a caster in this game. Ive only been playing for about a year and all my characters physically damaged based because the magic in this game confuses me to no end.

Ive actually never understood how cohorts work. But to be fair Ive never actually took the time to research. So if they are actually useful, let me know and Ill go do some research. I hear leadership is super good but again, never really did the research to figure out why.

Preferable to find a full spell progression class due to losing 2 with WitW and if I lose like 2 more than I wont be able to cast 9th level spells. Unless im just dumb because I dont have a full grasp on the spellcaster thing.


Falontani and Telonius.
Yes I actually just found the Salt Mummy in Monster Manual 3 last night. It literally just says the same thing as Sandstorm except that in MM3 the Salt mummies get and additional point to their grapple, which I thought was random but thats D&D for you. The rest of the description is just fluff.

[Dalmosh]

Aha, I knew I wasn't imaging things.

Casting time IS a standard action, as SLAs default to this without text specifying otherwise

from Rules Compendium p118
Using a spell-like ability usually takes 1 standard action
and provokes attacks of opportunity unless otherwise noted.
If the spell-like ability duplicates a spell that has a casting
time of less than 1 standard action, the spell-like ability has
that casting time. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a
spell can be. It’s possible to use a spell-like ability defensively
by making a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level). If the
check fails, the ability fails to go off, but the attempt counts
against the ability’s use limit.

But it does still only work at night, as that isn't actually one of the spell's components per se, its just a stipulation of how the spell works in the main text.
Range would be same as CU; 25ft + 5ft/2 levels

Since we are not presented with a salt mummy template that can be applied to different creature types, I think its implicit that the ability is only intended to work on humanoids.

Its also worth noting that the ability itself confers no ability to control or command the salt mummies.

[Ozzie831]

Aha, I knew I wasn't imaging things.

Casting time IS a standard action, as SLAs default to this without text specifying otherwise

from Rules Compendium p118

But it does still only work at night, as that isn't actually one of the spell's components per se, its just a stipulation of how the spell works in the main text.
Range would be same as CU; 25ft + 5ft/2 levels

Since we are not presented with a salt mummy template that can be applied to different creature types, I think its implicit that the ability is only intended to work on humanoids.

Its also worth noting that the ability itself confers no ability to control or command the salt mummies.


Ive been looking at the Special Ability section on the d20srd.org site.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

"A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated."

But even in the Player's Handbook it says that it takes a standard action unless otherwise stated. So Ill take it as a standard action.

However since we are saying this class feature is a SLA based off of how a "Mummy" is created. Wouldnt the same thing apply for the Mummy template? Which includes any corporeal creature except constructs, oozes, and undead. Just with the Dry Mummy abilities?

[Dalmosh]

That's a reading, but its definitely not the default one as it would first require your DM to homebrew a Salt Mummy template, by reverse engineering the stat block of a Salt Mummy in terms of its differences to a standard Mummy.

The strict RAW reading is that you spend a standard action to zap a dead dragon into a medium sized man-shaped undead... which you could argue for, but its pretty silly and obviously not RAI, and I wouldn't allow it in my game. Settling on a middle ground means homebrewing, which is obviously going to be by DM fiat.

[Ozzie831]

So... anyone have any input for the other questions that I had?

[magic9mushroom]

Salt mummies: How the hell is Salt Mummy created? The book is suuuuuper vague on how they are made (like how long it takes to make them? is it a standard action? Is it spell based? Do i physically have to mummify the thing myself?).


I can see how that would work but would it only be a standard action? Create undead has an hour long cast time. Dont get me wrong, I would totally take it as a standard action. Also since its based off the Create Undead spell, do you think that qualifies the Salt Mummies for the Corpsecrafter Feats from Libris Mortis?

It's a supernatural ability, which default to a standard action. I have no idea why people are saying it's a spell-like ability, since it clearly says (Su). RAW, you poke a corpse as a standard action (or possibly point at it; there's no listed range and I don't recall a default, so you'll need a ruling on that one) and it's a salt mummy now.

Corpsecrafter requires you to use a necromancy spell. Supernatural abilities and even spell-like abilities are not spells.


Arcane based with CHA as the ability score.

You can't take Walker in the Waste, then. Prereq is "ability to cast at least three spells of the Sand or Thirst domain as divine spells". Technically, since it says "domain" rather than "domains", early-entry is also a bit iffy.


Preferable to find a full spell progression class due to losing 2 with WitW and if I lose like 2 more than I wont be able to cast 9th level spells. Unless im just dumb because I dont have a full grasp on the spellcaster thing.

Everyone always fixates on capabilities at 20, but honestly there's nothing special about that number. What matters is how far behind you are, because you spend just as long at levels 17, 18 and 19 as you do at level 20. If there's any notable breakpoint, it's being able to cast 9th-level spells at level 21, because most of the caster-focused epic feats (in particular Multispell, Improved Spell Capacity and Epic Spellcasting) require 9th-level spells and they're incredibly powerful.

[Jack_Simth]

Then I was trying to find ways to become immune to all the other energy types but Electricity, Acid, Sonic, Force, Good, etc are super hard to get in comparison to Fire and Cold Mantles. Also it being even remotely effective in game.
THere's a nice little 24-hour duration spell in Spell Compendium called "Energy Immunity". That covers Electricity, Acid, and Sonic... possibly all three at once with three castings, under a "generous" DM. Under a "stingy" DM, you can only do one of them at a time due to a clause in Combining Magical Effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#combiningMagicalEffects):
Same Effect with Differing Results

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts. (Emphasis added)

Still, even under such a "stingy" DM, you can take Energy Immunity for one, Protection from Energy for another, and Resist Energy for the third (use Sonic for that last one; it's hard to find high damage sonic spells).

[Ozzie831]

It's a supernatural ability, which default to a standard action. I have no idea why people are saying it's a spell-like ability, since it clearly says (Su). RAW, you poke a corpse as a standard action (or possibly point at it; there's no listed range and I don't recall a default, so you'll need a ruling on that one) and it's a salt mummy now.

Corpsecrafter requires you to use a necromancy spell. Supernatural abilities and even spell-like abilities are not spells.



You can't take Walker in the Waste, then. Prereq is "ability to cast at least three spells of the Sand or Thirst domain as divine spells". Technically, since it says "domain" rather than "domains", early-entry is also a bit iffy.



Everyone always fixates on capabilities at 20, but honestly there's nothing special about that number. What matters is how far behind you are, because you spend just as long at levels 17, 18 and 19 as you do at level 20. If there's any notable breakpoint, it's being able to cast 9th-level spells at level 21, because most of the caster-focused epic feats (in particular Multispell, Improved Spell Capacity and Epic Spellcasting) require 9th-level spells and they're incredibly powerful.

Why the hell have I never noticed it said (SU).........Thanks for pointing that out.


Well then screw Corpsecrafter.


DM approved already so it doesnt really matter but this is how I got the early WitW entry.
Level 1 CN Mulan Human Generic Spellcaster. Cha based. Putting the good saves in fort to qualify for heat endurance.
With these feats at Level 1:
⦁ Human: Heat Endurance
⦁ Generic spellcaster: Precocious Apprentice (Desiccate)
⦁ Level 1: Southern Magician
Generic Spellcaster get spells known from the cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists.
At level one, I can know Waste Strider (Sand, druid1) and Parching Touch (Thirst, sorc/wiz1). As well as Desiccate (Thirst, from all 4 spell lists level 2) from Precocious Apprentice.
Southern Magician lets me cast them as Divine spells.
Also my DM isnt that damned picky. They dont have to all be from the same domain.



Jack_Simth
I have seen Energy Immunity before. And it will most certainly be used haha. Getting immune to those 3 other types is almost impossible without some super cheese. Like getting the Angel subtype.

I have also thought of just getting resistances, like you suggested in the second part.




Also I think I decided to just keep going Generic Spellcaster. I completely forgot the part where you can exchange their bonus feats for special class features. MMMM Spellcaster with Evasion and Uncanny dodge. Or a familiar or Trap Sense. So many options.

[Arcanist]

[...]DM approved already[...]

[...] Generic Spellcaster.[...]
[...]Level 1: Southern Magician[...]



A spellcaster must choose at 1st level whether to be an arcane spellcaster or a divine spellcaster.

Southern Magician is entirely redundant, or at least I cannot see why you would need it if you are going as a Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster). Just say you cast as a Divine Spellcaster, take up Wizard/Sorcerer, Archivist, and Druid spellcasting, and call it a day.

Also, if your DM is liberal enough to allow Generic Spellcasters, just ask him if you can eventually invest in a Scroll of Hide Life from Tomb and Blood and then just cast Favor of the Martyr and Sheltered Vitality on yourself and be immune to the Dead status entirely.


If damage or a spell effect would normally render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignore the usual effects. Instead, you are staggered (only able to take partial actions).


The subject gains immunity to nonlethal damage, charm and compulsion effects, and attacks that function specifically by causing pain, such as the wrack spell. It is further immune to effects that would cause it to be dazed, exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, sickened, staggered, or stunned.


The subject gains immunity to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability damage or drain

Also! I want to politely point out, that doing this is incredibly unsportsmanlike, but like...


http://i68.tinypic.com/20gld21.jpg

[Ozzie831]

Southern Magician is entirely redundant, or at least I cannot see why you would need it if you are going as a Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster). Just say you cast as a Divine Spellcaster, take up Wizard/Sorcerer, Archivist, and Druid spellcasting, and call it a day.

Also, if your DM is liberal enough to allow Generic Spellcasters, just ask him if you can eventually invest in a Scroll of Hide Life from Tomb and Blood and then just cast Favor of the Martyr and Sheltered Vitality on yourself and be immune to the Dead status entirely.







Also! I want to politely point out, that doing this is incredibly unsportsmanlike, but like...


http://i68.tinypic.com/20gld21.jpg




I interpreted the rules for the WitW entry as you needed to, at minimum, know 3 spells from those 2 specific Domains. But Generic Spellcaster only gets 2 spells known at level 1. Precocious Apprentice basically gave you a 2nd level spell slot to use for a specific spell (Desiccate in this instance). So you would have your two normal 1st level spells for Waste Strider and Parching Touch. Then have your 2nd level spell for Desiccate since that is the only 2nd Level spell in either of the 2 domain lists. Also according to the Precocious Feat, you have to be an arcane spell caster.

So with Southern Magician, it allows you to cast them as divine spells. Thus qualifying you for WitW.

[magic9mushroom]

Also, if your DM is liberal enough to allow Generic Spellcasters, just ask him if you can eventually invest in a Scroll of Hide Life from Tomb and Blood and then just cast Favor of the Martyr and Sheltered Vitality on yourself and be immune to the Dead status entirely.

I'd suggest using something that makes you immune to the condition "staggered" rather than something that makes you immune to "effects that would cause [you] to be [...] staggered".