Lore Bard (Reflavored as Arcane archer)

[Shuruke]

So to keep it short in an rp game I'm playing a arcane archer fighter I'm enjoying it, but I'm only enjoying it because I'm not thinking of it in comparison to how it.felt to be the prestige class Arcane Archer.

How would you go about getting the 3.5 feeling of Arcane archer in 5e using AL legal means ?

I was thinking Lore bard , Assasin or Swashbuckler rogue , tempest cleric

For this you only need a 13 in wis since you'll mainly be taking supporty stuff.
And a 13 cha is easy to get if u go half elf.

Reason for this is magical secrets and mostly full caster scaling

6, lightning arrow (tempest cleric maximizes spell damage and although it probably won't maximize sneak attack its still good.)

10, Swift Quiver or Conjure Volley

14, Swift Quiver (if u didn't already take) or Tenser Transformation

What do you guys think?

How would you go about scratching the arcane archer itch in 5e?

[Unoriginal]

Well, how did playing a 3.5 Arcane Archer felt, to you?

We can't tell you how to recreate a feeling if you don't tell us the feeling.

[Aett_Thorn]

So to keep it short in an rp game I'm playing a arcane archer fighter I'm enjoying it, but I'm only enjoying it because I'm not thinking of it in comparison to how it.felt to be the prestige class Arcane Archer.

How would you go about getting the 3.5 feeling of Arcane archer in 5e using AL legal means ?

I was thinking Lore bard , Assasin or Swashbuckler rogue , tempest cleric

For this you only need a 13 in wis since you'll mainly be taking supporty stuff.
And a 13 cha is easy to get if u go half elf.

Reason for this is magical secrets and mostly full caster scaling

6, lightning arrow (tempest cleric maximizes spell damage and although it probably won't maximize sneak attack its still good.)

10, Swift Quiver or Conjure Volley

14, Swift Quiver (if u didn't already take) or Tenser Transformation

What do you guys think?

How would you go about scratching the arcane archer itch in 5e?


I've done the Lore Bard Arcane Archer thing, and it works, but doesn't really come online until level 6, so just be prepared for that. I wouldn't worry about the Cleric thing, since it's only going to help with basically one spell, and you won't be using that spell all the time. Also, since you really, really want Magical Secrets stuff for this build, delaying any Bard progression is really going to hurt the feel of the build, so even going a few levels into Rogue is going to hurt for just a few d6 of extra damage.

Secondly, the build requires you to really pick the right spell(s) for the situation. For instance, Lightning Arrow, Swift Quiver, and Tenser's Transformation are all Concentration spells, which can be problematic if you were thinking of using them together somehow. It just means that if you're using Swift Quiver, you can't use Lightning Arrow without ruining the concentration on Swift Quiver. So pick your spells that you use based on the enemies that you're fighting.

But the good part is that as a Bard, you have plenty of things that you can do outside of combat as well. So you're not going to be a huge damage dealer (you'd be better off getting things like Fireball instead of Lightning Arrow for that), but you're totally fun and effective inside and outside of combat.

[jaappleton]

Ok, here's the thing.

You need to decide if you want arrow related spells, or stuff you can reflavor as being arrow related. Mechanically, arrow-related spells like Lightning Arrow kinda suck. Sorry to say it, but its true. A Ranger exclusive 3rd level spell (character level 9) is not good. Its good for Rangers because its kinda all they got. But its not a good spell.

I also argue that Swift Quiver is 100% inferior to Holy Weapon.

[Shuruke]

Well, how did playing a 3.5 Arcane Archer felt, to you?

We can't tell you how to recreate a feeling if you don't tell us the feeling.

X.X
Sorry not really trying to get the feeling recreated just because Idk if its possible XD

Just the options I guess

Being able to put self centered aoe spells on an arrow

Being able to have almost a "elemental weapon" equivalent on attacks


Feeling like a hunter/mage who if you know your prey you prepare the right elements and other misc arrows for job in the same way prepared casters do spells.

Being able to be a caster such as sorcerer and still be an arcane archer.

I played 3 and they were all extremely different. Whereas in 5e you could accomplish it by making a bunch of multiclass builds but it isn't quite the same of that makes sense.


I like that divination arrow is a thing , but compared to seeker/phase arrow it isn't same. Especially since u can't use sharpshooter with divination arrow

Just feels like alot of the archetypes power was put into curving shot and having "battle master" like feature but higher damage and stronger riders at cost of needing a high int.

Not sure if that makes sense
Just feels like a very different class but with same name, not sure if E.K or A.T feel that way, I know A.T doesn't get sneak on spells anymore unless u use shadow blade or SCAG as your +1 books

[Shuruke]

I've done the Lore Bard Arcane Archer thing, and it works, but doesn't really come online until level 6, so just be prepared for that. I wouldn't worry about the Cleric thing, since it's only going to help with basically one spell, and you won't be using that spell all the time. Also, since you really, really want Magical Secrets stuff for this build, delaying any Bard progression is really going to hurt the feel of the build, so even going a few levels into Rogue is going to hurt for just a few d6 of extra damage.

Secondly, the build requires you to really pick the right spell(s) for the situation. For instance, Lightning Arrow, Swift Quiver, and Tenser's Transformation are all Concentration spells, which can be problematic if you were thinking of using them together somehow. It just means that if you're using Swift Quiver, you can't use Lightning Arrow without ruining the concentration on Swift Quiver. So pick your spells that you use based on the enemies that you're fighting.

But the good part is that as a Bard, you have plenty of things that you can do outside of combat as well. So you're not going to be a huge damage dealer (you'd be better off getting things like Fireball instead of Lightning Arrow for that), but you're totally fun and effective inside and outside of combat.



Yeah that's what I was thinking, was hoping that sharpshooter and longbow / 2d6 rogue would keep damage at least as high as most cantrips throughout game.

And I can see how cleric could put it behind I just figured outside of 5th and 7th being swift quiver or Tenser all or most of 3rd and 4th could be lightning arrow


I was thinking maybe Ranger planar defender (can't remember name of Xana one I think that's it) with A.T could give a nice feeling with sneak attack and hail of thorns but just sounds MAD unless u only take buff wizard spells

[Zonugal]

Being able to put self centered aoe spells on an arrow

Being able to have almost a "elemental weapon" equivalent on attacks

Feeling like a hunter/mage who if you know your prey you prepare the right elements and other misc arrows for job in the same way prepared casters do spells.

Being able to be a caster such as sorcerer and still be an arcane archer.

For all of the elements expressed above, it isn't actually arcane but what about a Nature Cleric?

With Wood Elf for race, once per round you can fire an arrow that is either deals an extra 1d8 cold, fire, or lightning damage.

You can always re-flavor some of the Nature domain's spells as being bound in an arrow as well (Grasping Vine, Plant Growth, & Spike Growth).

A build might look something like:

Wood Elf Ranger 2/'Nature' Cleric X

[Grod_The_Giant]

It sounds almost like you want a standard caster who uses a bow as a casting focus, and fluffs all their ranged spell attacks as being conducted through arrows.

[tieren]

It sounds almost like you want a standard caster who uses a bow as a casting focus, and fluffs all their ranged spell attacks as being conducted through arrows.

Thats what I was thinking, the Web spell for instance could be fluffed to be some sort of 'net' arrow as an example.

Horizon walker Ranger adds the force damage to one arrow a turn, but if I wanted to be an archer I would probably just stick with Hunter, you'd get the spells Hail of thorns, conjure barrage conjure volley, lightning arrow, swift quiver; you'd get the extra attack Lore bard never will; with horde breaker you could be firing 3 arrows a turn as early as level 5.

[Shuruke]

Ok, here's the thing.

You need to decide if you want arrow related spells, or stuff you can reflavor as being arrow related. Mechanically, arrow-related spells like Lightning Arrow kinda suck. Sorry to say it, but its true. A Ranger exclusive 3rd level spell (character level 9) is not good. Its good for Rangers because its kinda all they got. But its not a good spell.

I also argue that Swift Quiver is 100% inferior to Holy Weapon.

That's very true
And is that even when considering sharpshooter?

I don't do very much optimization math I just grab stuff that sounds good XD

[Shuruke]

Thats what I was thinking, the Web spell for instance could be fluffed to be some sort of 'net' arrow as an example.

Horizon walker Ranger adds the force damage to one arrow a turn, but if I wanted to be an archer I would probably just stick with Hunter, you'd get the spells Hail of thorns, conjure barrage conjure volley, lightning arrow, swift quiver; you'd get the extra attack Lore bard never will; with horde breaker you could be firing 3 arrows a turn as early as level 5.

That's true
Also the multi attack volley feature is a lot like what arcane archer used to get for their make an attack on each person in x area thing.

[Vogie]

It sounds almost like you want a standard caster who uses a bow as a casting focus, and fluffs all their ranged spell attacks as being conducted through arrows.

Yep. They're looking for a Curse Archer:

Pact of the Blade Warlock with Improved Pact Weapon with 3-7 levels of Arcane Archer (depending if you want curving arrows or not). Probably with Hexblade patron for access to the Branding Smite and Blinding Smite spells, or Raven queen for the Spiritual Weapon (Yondu-style dancing arrow), but the latter isn't AL legal. Both your Arcane Shots and Spell slots refresh on short rests. You'll probably get the Bursting & Banishing Shots, maybe Seeking arrow for the occasional impossible shot.

[Man_Over_Game]

I mean, have you considered just going Ranger and Druid?

Use Ranger's powerful low level spell slots that work with attacking, use Land Druid's effectiveness at recharging low level spell slots, combined to make a ranged attacker who constantly is shooting magical arrows.

I'd probably go Ranger 8, Druid 12.

Ranger Archetype would be Monster Slayer, due to not requiring many Bonus Actions, as well as having a number of features that rely on your high spellcasting modifier.
Druid Archetype would probably be Land-Coast, due to the number of martial combat benefits it provides for you. Grasslands is another solid option.

[MagneticKitty]

I'd suggest warlock, tome or chain.

Reflavor eldritch blast as energy arrows, use a bow as a wand. You can target multiple people like a bow, it is magical and a not commonly resisted damage. You can modify the range and add effects, plus you get a decent hit dice and wear light armor like an archer. You can add hex, or other spells as a special magic arrow.

[Aaron Underhand]

Hunter ranger 5 with horde breaker, war cleric x. Get three attacks at 5th level, 4 attacks with bonus action from war cleric, and plus 10 after the roll to make sharpshooter hit. Add bless, and later magic weapon....

[Particle_Man]

I've done the Lore Bard Arcane Archer thing, and it works, but doesn't really come online until level 6, so just be prepared for that.

So, very much like a 3.5 prestige class then? :smallsmile:

[Throne12]

I don't know if anyone has suggested this but why not play a bladesinger wizard now of there abilities say it has to be a melee weapon. You can reflavor spells like fireball as a firey arrow that you shoot from your bow. You will get two attacks with other spells that can give you more (haste, tense transformation).

[djreynolds]

Why not hexblade? Go archery, force smiting with you arrows and you get elemental weapon at 5th level

[Seekergeek]

I don't know if anyone has suggested this but why not play a bladesinger wizard now of there abilities say it has to be a melee weapon. You can reflavor spells like fireball as a firey arrow that you shoot from your bow. You will get two attacks with other spells that can give you more (haste, tense transformation).

Yep. A bladesinger with a hand crossbow would be my recommendation. Played one and enjoyed it a lot. I refluffed a LOT, though. Before I got elemental weapon, magic missile became my seeking arrows, scorching ray were flaming arrows, etc. Haste allowed for the casting of a fireball or a lightning bolt and an elemental weapon shot in the same round.

It was much fun and it felt nice to get to stay away from the front line.

[Shuruke]

Yeah I guess best way would be to reflavor it

In a campaign I played I re flavored sea sorcerer and planar defender ranger as a arcane archer. But Idk just reflavoring isn't the same if that makes sense XD.

I think I might make homebrew templates for my players to convert /go through together and change a 3.5 prestige class or etc to a 5e class or archetype.

Tbh I feel like if they made arcane archer a wizard archetype to begin with that would have been cool, even if they didn't give multi attack at 6 and instead have something else like the phase arrow.

Thanks for all the help
Ill look into hexblade and etc just not fond of the pact magic thematically.

Druid ranger could be lots of fun and would make for interesting use of land druid


Nature cleric is a good idea and could be fun with ranger or another class like scout rogue

[jaappleton]

I actually forgot I made a topic regarding Warlock Archers and their merits awhile ago.

Here it is: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?544943-The-argument-for-the-Warlock-Hexblade-Archer

I think you should look it over. Really, I think it’ll help you out here.

[Talionis]

Whisper Bard should probably get a mention.

[JackPhoenix]

I don't know if anyone has suggested this but why not play a bladesinger wizard now of there abilities say it has to be a melee weapon. You can reflavor spells like fireball as a firey arrow that you shoot from your bow. You will get two attacks with other spells that can give you more (haste, tense transformation).

Because you can't use bladesong and shoot a bow at the same time. Hand crossbow works, though.

[Shuruke]

I actually forgot I made a topic regarding Warlock Archers and their merits awhile ago.

Here it is: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?544943-The-argument-for-the-Warlock-Hexblade-Archer

I think you should look it over. Really, I think it’ll help you out here.

Looks really cool

Not big fan of hand crossbows but I think imma replace the 3 rogue 2 cleric with 5 warlock hexblade for
15 bard lore
5 warlock taking thirsting blade and the invocation for using bows.

Still not sure what to take for the magical secrets
Thinking
Flame arrow - only if have another archer in party

Lightning arrow - for sure gonna take because I'd be able to use it on short rests

Conjure Volley- I don't think this is a good option can't be Upcast

Swift Quiver- 4 attacks a turn is nice.

Conjure Barrage , I will most likely take this 8d8 is pretty good chunk , sure fireball is 10d6 at 5th slot but I haven't seen very mainly creatures resistant to magical piercing

Tenser transformation- I still like this one but I think theirs better options

[Daithi]

I typically play Warlocks like a type of arcane archer. They just use Eldritch Blast instead of arrows. No reason you couldn't actually use a bow (or crossbow) as a focus and roll play EB as magical arrows.

Generally, I multiclass as a Hexblade/Sorcerer to use Twinning or Quickening to double the EB "arrows". The character does a quiver-load of damage at higher levels, and even at lower levels is pretty respectable. So, Hexblade/Sorcerer, with maybe a level or two of Ranger for flavor, and you have a pretty decent arcane archer.

[Shuruke]

I typically play Warlocks like a type of arcane archer. They just use Eldritch Blast instead of arrows. No reason you couldn't actually use a bow (or crossbow) as a focus and roll play EB as magical arrows.

Generally, I multiclass as a Hexblade/Sorcerer to use Twinning or Quickening to double the EB "arrows". The character does a quiver-load of damage at higher levels, and even at lower levels is pretty respectable. So, Hexblade/Sorcerer, with maybe a level or two of Ranger for flavor, and you have a pretty decent arcane archer.

Tbh I'm just not a E.B fan
That probably sounds dumb but their it is XD

[jaappleton]

Im gonna talk from strictly an optimizing perspective for s moment.

Flame Arrows is Garbage and Lightning Arrow is Ass.

You need to think of reflavoring other spells. It’s your spell. It’s YOUR Lightning Bolt. Is it a bolt of Lightning streaking out toward enemies from your extended finger, like 2/3rds of all Spellcasters in the world?

Or is YOUR version of Lightning Bolt a massive arrow of pure, raw, green electrical energy shot from your bow and heavens help whatever is in its path?

[Shuruke]

Im gonna talk from strictly an optimizing perspective for s moment.

Flame Arrows is Garbage and Lightning Arrow is Ass.

You need to think of reflavoring other spells. It’s your spell. It’s YOUR Lightning Bolt. Is it a bolt of Lightning streaking out toward enemies from your extended finger, like 2/3rds of all Spellcasters in the world?

Or is YOUR version of Lightning Bolt a massive arrow of pure, raw, green electrical energy shot from your bow and heavens help whatever is in its path?

Yeah I guess
And ya flame arrow sucks hence why was only gonna take it with another archer cuz unless u get the 12 arrows out in 2 rounds its not really worth dpr wise

Lightning arrow I feel can be very good
Replaces your 1d8 bow with 4d8 lightning

Still gets dex and sharpshooter for 4d8+15

And on a miss is still half of 4d8+5

Nearby enemies taking same damage with dex save.

11.5 - 32 average per enemy I think is pretty sweet for 3rd level spell
Fireball 8d6 is 14-28 in bigger area and more resisted damage.

I'm willing to take thoughts I'd just like to do it in a way that doesnt need theatrics re flavoring so that of others wish they could take it and theynwouldnt be subject to
"No your spell cant be cast from a bow looking like an arrow."

Instead or would just be allowed unless the dm really has an issue with it I guess