How to Short Rest

[sophontteks]

I've decided to write up a little guide to help the (many) players frustrated with short rest mechanics. I've played a good few short rest classes and I quite enjoy them, but I feel like the mechanic gets misunderstood, and gets underutilized.

What is a Short Rest?

-A short rest is an hour of "Light activity" that includes many mundane tasks one would expect adventurers to do between encounters.
- A short rest has no restrictions or penalties associated with their use, unlike long rests.
- A short rest is made to be taken during the adventuring day, between encounters.
- A short rest is not something "given" to you by the DM. Its an activity your character can choose to do.
- You are in no way vulnerable during a short rest. You aren't sleeping, you haven't put your guard down.

So, as written, a short rest is actually pretty hard to punish. So why don't players use it?

The big one is because they do not try. They just think "Hey, who has time to waste doing mundane activities." or worse, they are hoping their DM will straight up poke them in the chest and say "Hey, guys, you know you could short rest right now, right?"

Look, it's not the DM's job to tell your characters what to do. They may at times suggest that this is a good, or bad time to rest. But actually doing it is on your hands!

Now, I've written up some things here to help you, a player, get more short rests in without interrupting gameplay, and possibly even adding more roleplay to your games.

You are Already Short Resting
Lets be honest. 5e's measurements are all very, very off. If we only go by rounds as a measurement of time players can complete an entire days worth of adventuring in as little as 2-3 minutes. A minute is 10 whole rounds afterall, that is easily 2 combat encounters with time to spare.

The thing is, that is not how time is actually passing in anyone's game (at least I sure hope not!). The DM will typically handwave a reasonable amount of time as having passed. The players didn't break the laws of space and time here. Instead this handwaving includes a myriad of insignificant happenings the players didn't roleplay along the way. These are things like eating, cleaning their weapons, fixing their armor, bandaging their wounds, bathroom breaks, covering tracks, scheming plans, catching their breath, stretching. Etc. Etc.

These little mundane things actually take up a significant amount of time, and funny thing is, all of these things are things a player is legally allowed to do during a short rest. Yes, players. You are taking short rests during your dungeon crawl and you don't even know it!

Sneaking in Short Rests
So, you know that between encounters time is passing. When two players are arguing about what to do next while the rogue is busy looking for traps, just announce that your character has "Begun meditating." There is no need to force everyone to take a short rest and wait for you. We are instead taking advantage of time we are already wasting.

This works really slick when the players find a new room with potential loot. You can still participate (light activity) while short resting. Let them take the lead in the searches while you focus on regaining your power. Remember, searching in the book may be a 6 second action, but to actually search a room takes 15 minutes to an hour, easily. In most cases, If your party has time to loot, you have time to rest.

Think of how much time it takes to conduct other activities. Fortifying a location, setting traps for the enemy, laying an ambush. In-game its "I set a trap." as if doing this is easier then tying your shoes. Be conscious of how much time, realistically, would pass when your party is doing things.

And don't worry if your rest gets interrupted. It'll happen often. You'll be "meditating" and the party decides they got to move right now. There are no penalties or restrictions on short rests. Just try to sneak them in when you can and if you can't you are none the worse for it.

Conclusion
What have we one here?
Well, were added a new element to the game that we were previously handwaving, and this is a good thing. You aren't just short resting, you are reminding the players that the characters they are playing are not robots. Time isn't frozen when the players are scheming where to go next, instead their characters are the ones actively using this time in the game world.

It gives players a chance to think about and describe the things they do in this down time. Does the cleric say a prayer? Does the fighter fix the chinks in his armor? Do they eat? Does the wizard record events? These are meaningful things in an RPG that would have otherwise been ignored.

Finally, what are the consequences?
Well, short resting will not always be viable. It shouldn't be. Sometimes your party really is on a race against the clock (and as a DM I would restrict other things like player discussions, looting, searching etc etc as well.) And there is nothing wrong with this.

Short rest and long rest classes are supposed to be separate but equal. They are different styles that favor different circumstances. If a short rest character actively utilizes the power of a short rest, however, they will find that it is very easy for them to regain their resources regularly, and long rest classes may even be jealous on the longer days, especially if they choose to nova most their good stuff in one big fight.

[The Aboleth]

I like your write-up, particularly when you describe how DMs typically handwave a "reasonable amount of time" being passed. I do it all the time, because keeping track of time minute-by-minute is tedious and not fun for my table.

In the games I DM, I define a short rest as "just long enough to catch your breath," which I rule can be anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour depending on the severity of their exhaustion (big, epic battles will obviously be more tiresome than short, 1 round encounters against CR 1/4 enemies, for example). This works for my table, but my players know not to abuse the mechanic. Your tables may vary, however.

[KorvinStarmast]

How to short rest:
Take five, smokes if you've got 'em.

Worked in the Navy.

[Tanarii]

It's not "Light activity". It's "... in which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds." That's important, because to some people "light activity" implies moving around.

Yeah, if your DM allows, you can do that while the rest of the party is doing adventuring things like, like scouting or ransacking the joint. But that's seriously YMMV.

Mainly because you're depending on that coming up to more than an hour in time, which is a lot or ransacking or scouting.

But it also risks wandering monsters in a non-secure location. Or whatever the 'time-clock' mechanism your DM uses to discourage PCs from wasting time.

Also, nothing about rests says they aren't either cannot be, or default to not being, DM given. I appreciate that you're not treating them as a button to push, but rather as a natural consequence of in game actions. Very cool, and also appropriate if you're in a heavily immersive game (e.g. being the PC in an interactive environment). But they can also be treated as either game or narrative constructs, 'handed out' by the DM as befits the flow of the game needs or story needs.

[Xetheral]

I agree with Tanarii's point on YMMV.

I originally read the short rest rules the same way you do, and that's how I run it at my table (when I'm not using home-brewed rest rules, anyway). When the party is in a city or other reasonably safe location, there will naturally be numerous short rests throughout the day. I accordingly originally considered the Warlock the best out-of-combat social/utility caster, since outside of stressful environments they'll likely get the slot(s) back before they need to cast again.

But I've not found any other DMs who run it that way. Instead, most I've played with treat short rests as an hour-long break in the characters' activities, rather than as a consequence of any sufficiently-light activity. At such a table, short rests require the other players' buy-in, and as such has a (small) social cost--enough so that you get annoying if you ask every time your characater would naturally meet the requirements.

One work-around I've found is to have a short-rest dependent character be skilled at cooking and carry high-quality ingredients. If you take a moment to describe the meal your character is making it adds flavor to the game and results in the short rest feeling organic rather than appearing to be an OOC request for a power recharge. That's enough to reliably get three short rests per day so long as there isn't so much time pressure that the party is skipping meals.

[NaughtyTiger]

From this narrativr, wouldn't it be extremely rare not to have a short rest between every encounter?

[Man_Over_Game]

From this narrativr, wouldn't it be extremely rare not to have a short rest between every encounter?

That's true, but shouldn't that be the case anyway?

You just killed a band of marauders, and you're about to continue traveling. Wouldn't you set aside 30 minutes to take a breather, tend to your wounds and get some food in you? Maybe not immediately after fighting the marauders, since you want to get some distance, but it's unlikely you're going to be assaulted in the same hour after being attacked.

[NaughtyTiger]

Then this skews the balance heavily towards short rest characters/punishes long rest pcs.

So no, i dont think screwing long rest pcs is how it should be, any more than screwing short rest pcs is tge way to play.

[Man_Over_Game]

Then this skews the balance heavily towards short rest characters/punishes long rest pcs.

Depends on your number of fights, or the number of combat rounds in between each Short Rest.

If you have Fight, Fight, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, the Short Rest character is going to be out of resources before the second fight before the rest, despite having multiple Short Rests.




Sure, having more Short Rests puts the power level towards Short Rest characters than Long Rest ones, but Short Rest characters only start being more effective at 3 Short Rests.

That's 4 fights with an half hour/hour break in between, in a single day. Usually, players go on long treks with little combat, or have intense events that require frequent combat in the same few hours.

Short Rest characters are only better if you have 4+ combat encounters spread evenly over a 16 hour day, and that's pretty rare.

[Jakinbandw]

Then this skews the balance heavily towards short rest characters/punishes long rest pcs.

So no, i dont think screwing long rest pcs is how it should be, any more than screwing short rest pcs is tge way to play.

I mean, isn't that generally a good thing? Long rest classes are things like wizard, cleric, bard, paladin, and the like. Do these classes really suffer so much that occasionally a fighter might be better than them at actually fighting? Especially when they can do so much out of combat stuff, and break the rules with spells?

[Man_Over_Game]

I mean, isn't that generally a good thing? Long rest classes are things like wizard, cleric, bard, paladin, and the like. Do these classes really suffer so much that occasionally a fighter might be better than them at actually fighting? Especially when they can do so much out of combat stuff, and break the rules with spells?

Forgot about this part. Can't +1 this enough.

[NaughtyTiger]

I mean, isn't that generally a good thing? Long rest classes are things like wizard, cleric, bard, paladin, and the like. Do these classes really suffer so much that occasionally a fighter might be better than them at actually fighting? Especially when they can do so much out of combat stuff, and break the rules with spells?

Do i think screwing long rest pcs is a good thing? No. I think screwing any class is a bad thing.

Moon druids.

[stoutstien]

Do i think screwing long rest pcs is a good thing? No. I think screwing any class is a bad thing.

Moon druids.

Are you saying it's okay to screw over Moon druids? Lol.
I think as long as you don't allow short rest focused classes to go into every fight in the day/long rest cycle with full resources and you have less that 9 rounds that require said resources, the long rest classes have an edge.
A very small edge but it there nonetheless.

[djreynolds]

Players choose to short rest.
The DM rolls dice. They are attacked or something else disturbs their rest, or their rest goes as planned.
Players must advocate for themselves, players should advocate for each other... But there are even glory hogs in 5E.

Excellent guide

[NaughtyTiger]

Are you saying it's okay to screw over Moon druids? Lol.

wow. did you read what you quoted?
No. I think screwing any class is a bad thing.

The words "moon druid" were intended to spark reflection on how this change of thinking (not of the rules, but the application of this methodology) would affect one of the stronger short rest classes.
I also do not believe this change is intended by the devs

This would remove the time constraint on moon druid wildshape.
This would provide a very high HP pool for moon druid, higher than already exists.



I think as long as you don't allow short rest focused classes to go into every fight in the day/long rest cycle with full resources and you have less that 9 encounter that require said resources, the long rest classes have an edge.
A very small edge but it there nonetheless.

MoG's math shows 10 rounds of combat per long rest is the crossover point. This would drastically shift stuff in favor of short rest.

Plus, how do you prevent short rest guys from being at full resource using this model? Again it would be very rare to not be fully rested.

[stoutstien]

wow. did you read what you quoted?

The words "moon druid" were intended to spark reflection on how this change of thinking (not of the rules, but the application of this methodology) would affect one of the stronger short rest classes.
I also do not believe this change is intended by the devs

This would remove the time constraint on moon druid wildshape.
This would provide a very high HP pool for moon druid, higher than already exists.



MoG's math shows 10 rounds of combat per long rest is the crossover point. This would drastically shift stuff in favor of short rest.

Plus, how do you prevent short rest guys from being at full resource using this model? Again it would be very rare to not be fully rested.
It's why I was verifying because when you said Moon druid alone I figured it was an example of unintentional consequences of messing with the rest system.

And I did mean to put rounds not encounter in my post. I mis-type there.
I fixed it

[Man_Over_Game]

I really think we should exclude Moon Druids from the equation. I've of the opinion that they are broken as hell, and I've considered a lot of different ways to tone them down. I mean, a Full Caster AND an effective 68 HP/Short Rest?!

Anyway, I think Moon Druids should be a spot fix. Don't let one thing cause us to ignore some of the more consistent problems seen in Warlocks, Hit Dice, and the power level of Long Rest characters.

[NaughtyTiger]

If you have Fight, Fight, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, the Short Rest character is going to be out of resources before the second fight before the rest, despite having multiple Short Rests.


you just agreed that it would be extremely rare for you not to have a rest between each encounter. therefore, your statement should be closer to
"If you have Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight," for most days...



Warlocks do run out of resources rather quickly, and I'll agree with you on that, but what they can do with those resources is pretty spectacular. With two short rests in a day, you're talking about being able to cast Fireball 6 times at level 5. That's 1-2 times per fight..

This would let them do that 2 times per fight.

[Man_Over_Game]

you just agreed that it would be extremely rare for you not to have a rest between each encounter. therefore, your statement should be closer to
"If you have Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight, Rest, Fight," for most days...

Eh, kinda. I'd say the expectation should be that there is going to have time between fights, but realistically, is that always going to be the case?

Most campaigns don't take place in dungeons or in a war zone. That doesn't mean that you're not going to have a dungeon, or a siege, or some other important event that you don't have a break in between. Such is the life of an adventurer.


I'd expect there to be about 1-2 fights a day that occur before the players get a break. Not only does this increase tension when players' resources start getting low, but this also keeps up the high-action pace when the story starts getting good. Like all things, it's a fine balance.

[NaughtyTiger]

I'd expect there to be about 1-2 fights a day that occur before the players get a break. Not only does this increase tension when players' resources start getting low, but this also keeps up the high-action pace when the story starts getting good. Like all things, it's a fine balance.

If it stays 1-2 fights per day between short rests, then we are aligned.
My read is that this narrative (which again is logical and per the rules) would make short rest between encounters the default state, and require heavy-handed DMing to overcome.

[sithlordnergal]

I mean, isn't that generally a good thing? Long rest classes are things like wizard, cleric, bard, paladin, and the like. Do these classes really suffer so much that occasionally a fighter might be better than them at actually fighting? Especially when they can do so much out of combat stuff, and break the rules with spells?

Well, lets put it this way: You're in a party where you can take short rests after every combat. This party is made up of...ohhhh, lets say a Divination Wizard, Moon Druid, Battlemaster Fighter, and Cleric. Lets put them at levels 3, 6, and 10 respectively.

Divination Wizard: Ehh, they'll be effective until they get a long rest, there's not much happening here at any level outside of Arcane Recovery

Cleric: They get to regain all of their Channel Divinities, pretty useful. Outside of that, not much of a change.

Battlemaster Fighter: They essentially become a Nova beast, able to blow every single ability on every single combat without any concerns. It gives them enough of a power boost that they can overshadow other classes. Not exactly a bad thing depending on the table, but something you need to look out for.

Moon Druid: Congrats, you just gave the Moon Druid something equivalent to half of their level 20 capstone. They will put other classes to shame if they are played by a smart player. Especially if said player knows to pop off a Concentration spell, then go beast mode. It becomes even worse at level 10, when they get Elemental Wild Shape and can turn into an Elemental every combat.

[Jakinbandw]

Well, lets put it this way: You're in a party where you can take short rests after every combat. This party is made up of...ohhhh, lets say a Divination Wizard, Moon Druid, Battlemaster Fighter, and Cleric. Lets put them at levels 3, 6, and 10 respectively.

Divination Wizard: Ehh, they'll be effective until they get a long rest, there's not much happening here at any level outside of Arcane Recovery

Cleric: They get to regain all of their Channel Divinities, pretty useful. Outside of that, not much of a change.

Battlemaster Fighter: They essentially become a Nova beast, able to blow every single ability on every single combat without any concerns. It gives them enough of a power boost that they can overshadow other classes. Not exactly a bad thing depending on the table, but something you need to look out for.

Moon Druid: Congrats, you just gave the Moon Druid something equivalent to half of their level 20 capstone. They will put other classes to shame if they are played by a smart player. Especially if said player knows to pop off a Concentration spell, then go beast mode. It becomes even worse at level 10, when they get Elemental Wild Shape and can turn into an Elemental every combat.

To be fair, I've never liked moon druid and would have no issue banning that sub class from my table. I've heard many issues with moon druid being a better fighter than a fighter while being a full caster. Banning them doesn't seem like the worst idea no matter what rest style you're using.

[sithlordnergal]

To be fair, I've never liked moon druid and would have no issue banning that sub class from my table. I've heard many issues with moon druid being a better fighter than a fighter while being a full caster. Banning them doesn't seem like the worst idea no matter what rest style you're using.

Oh, I fully agree that Moon Druids are an OP subclass, though to be honest I find most DMs accidentally make it stronger by ignoring the "you can only turn into animals you have seen" part of Wild Shape.

But there is a point to mentioning them in discussions like this. Moon Druids are OP, it is very easy to see they are OP. As a result, it is easier to make a clear example of what happens when you change up the resting rules to allow for more Short Rests.

Battlemaster Fighters, Monks, and Warlocks gain power boosts when you allow more Short Rests, but the power boost isn't as obvious as it is with the Moon Druid.

[Man_Over_Game]

To be fair, I've never liked moon druid and would have no issue banning that sub class from my table. I've heard many issues with moon druid being a better fighter than a fighter while being a full caster. Banning them doesn't seem like the worst idea no matter what rest style you're using.

I've considered a lot of different fixes other than a straight up banhammer.

The one I've settled on is to implement these changes:

Wild Shape form skills now have Expertise
The Wild Shape form you take has half of the HP of the listed statblock.
When losing Wild Shape due to damage, you have resistance to all damage until the beginning or end of your turn.



Now it's no longer a "I can melee better than the Barbarian" button, but a "Oh crap, he's looking at me" button.

It's the difference between Barbarian Rage and Bladesinger's chant. One is the center of the entire playstyle, and the other is a specific tool for a specific problem. Right now, Moon Druids can rely on their Wild Shape and completely forget they're a full caster and do just fine, and that just seems very wasteful.

I don't think it's a terrible thing that Battlemasters and Monks get more attention, anyway.

Monks are generally considered squishy, or scaling terribly, or having poor Ki cost ratios with certain builds, and having more Ki points to spend fixes all of those problems.

Battlemasters were fine, and still are. Ask yourself, is the Battlemaster's Superiority Dice better than the Lore Bard's Inspiration Shield? I'd probably wager No, but it's fairly close. The difference is, the Bard still gets a plethora of spells, cantrips, and Magical Secrets, where the Fighter is still limited to attacking.

More short rests bumps up the classes that need it (not you, Moon Druid) and helps close that gap between the classes. At the very least, it'll mean that people might start relying on their Warlocks and Monks more often.

How often have you had to rely on your party Warlock and not your party Wizard?

[stoutstien]

I've considered a lot of different fixes other than a straight up banhammer.

The one I've settled on is to implement these changes:

Wild Shape form skills now have Expertise
The Wild Shape form you take has half of the HP of the listed statblock.
When losing Wild Shape due to damage, you have resistance to all damage until the beginning or end of your turn.



Now it's no longer a "I can melee better than the Barbarian" button, but a "Oh crap, he's looking at me" button.

It's the difference between Barbarian Rage and Bladesinger's chant. One is the center of the entire playstyle, and the other is a specific tool for a specific problem. Right now, Moon Druids can rely on their Wild Shape and completely forget they're a full caster and do just fine, and that just seems very wasteful.

I don't think it's a terrible thing that Battlemasters and Monks get more attention, anyway.

Monks are generally considered squishy, or scaling terribly, or having poor Ki cost ratios with certain builds, and having more Ki points to spend fixes all of those problems.

Battlemasters were fine, and still are. Ask yourself, is the Battlemaster's Superiority Dice better than the Lore Bard's Inspiration Shield? I'd probably wager No, but it's fairly close. The difference is, the Bard still gets a plethora of spells, cantrips, and Magical Secrets, where the Fighter is still limited to attacking.

More short rests bumps up the classes that need it (not you, Moon Druid) and helps close that gap between the classes. At the very least, it'll mean that people might start relying on their Warlocks and Monks more often.

How often have you had to rely on your party Warlock and not your party Wizard?
That is the most elegant fixes for Moon druid I've ever seen. I'm going to shamelessly steal it.

I've yer to have a player try to abuse Moon druid but this will be a nice patch to keep on hand.

Short rest focus classes could have had a refill feature at a lv when it matters. Like The cap stone of warlocks could have been moved down to a lower lv and time so it could ack like a instant refill once a day for them.

[sophontteks]

First, I think some people are blowing this a bit out of proportion. Short rest classes should be better in certain situations, but none of this takes away from the situations where long rest classes are better. Everyone is trying to "fix" this by making them more the same. Sometimes a short rest class may be able to get their resources back after every encounter, sometimes they will be lucky to short rest at all. This dynamic is good for the team, it allows one type to support the other when the situation favors them.

Not to mention that this is addressing people who do not know how to short rest. And by that I mean people who do not understand how the average of 1 short rest per 2 encounters is possible. Remember how averages work. If I short rest after every encounter one day, and can't short rest between several the other, it'll probably meet the average. If instead we try to limit this short resting artificially and then additionally have encounters where short resting can't be done, the average is less then 1 short rest per 2 encounters.

So, considering this I do not really understand how helping people use short rests properly is skewing balance. This is how they are designed to be used. I am encouraging short rest characters to attempt to short rest at every opportunity, especially those Warlocks and certain monks, but its not always going to work. What it will do is bring them to that number of short rests these classes are balanced around in a very fluid manner conductive to roleplay.

On moon druids:

I don't really think moon druids are OP overall, they are just strong at levels 2-4. Level 5 onwards the shepherd druid is on a whole other level. I mean, if you are talking about banning moon druids I can only guess you haven't seen a shepherd druid in action yet, and the shepherd is not short rest dependent.

Moon druids vs. barbs, to me, is more about the barbarians. Barbarians have some terrible archtypes and only 2 good ones. These weak archtypes really scale down their power, however, I don't think a well-built barb is in any danger of being out done by a druid. Heck even a mediocre one is still a better tank. With the Totem archtype I think barbarians are overestimating the power of bear, and underestimating the power of the mobility options. Giving huge speed buffs to an already fast class is pretty incredible, especially when combined with grappling. The bears damage resistance ability only works when they rage. The enemy can just kite them out of rage.

[Corran]

Excessive short resting can be problematic IMO.
In lack of a better way to put it, it calls for the DM to step up their game (which is not a bad thing). Because enemies, evil shemes, and generally the whole game world also carry on without time freezing for them while the party takes a short rest. But while it takes just a few moments for the players to decide to take a short rest, the DM has to figure out now what the enemies are going to do in that same time. And the DM must do that under the pressure of time. Else they need to prepare for it beforehand, and even then it's not always easy (at least for some DM's). Dont misnderstand me, I am not saying this is making the game unfair to the DM, because the game should not be seen as a competition between players and DM's anyway. What I am saying, is that if the DM cannot have the game world (with emphasis to the enemies) act accordingly during that time interval when the players are taking a short rest, then the game starts feeling very video-game-y. There is a right number of short rests per adventring day, but more than using balance between the pc classes as a criterion, use the DM's ability to cope with it as one of the determining factors. Having a character death or a TPK is far less of a bummer than finding ways to prove that the DM's world is a joke. The former can be frustrating, sure, but the latter is essentially a slowly approaching game over.

[sophontteks]

Excessive short resting can be problematic IMO.
In lack of a better way to put it, it calls for the DM to step up their game (which is not a bad thing). Because enemies, evil shemes, and generally the whole game world also carry on without time freezing for them while the party takes a short rest. But while it takes just a few moments for the players to decide to take a short rest, the DM has to figure out now what the enemies are going to do in that same time. And the DM must do that under the pressure of time. Else they need to prepare for it beforehand, and even then it's not always easy (at least for some DM's). Dont misnderstand me, I am not saying this is making the game unfair to the DM, because the game should not be seen as a competition between players and DM's anyway. What I am saying, is that if the DM cannot have the game world (with emphasis to the enemies) act accordingly during that time interval when the players are taking a short rest, then the game starts feeling very video-game-y. There is a right number of short rests per adventring day, but more than using balance between the pc classes as a criterion, use the DM's ability to cope with it as one of the determining factors. Having a character death or a TPK is far less of a bummer than finding ways to prove that the DM's world is a joke. The former can be frustrating, sure, but the latter is essentially a slowly approaching game over.
This actually circumvents this problem, because the short rests are being done during periods when the party is not under time stress anyway. There is no time-freezing. The players are actively using this time to do activities. We can cut short resting right out of the whole equation and the players would still be spending their time searching for loot and plotting their next move. No additional time has been artificially created in the world. Quite the opposite, time that was handwaved before is now being used and roleplayed.

In practice often the short rest character will need some additional time. The DM can snowball a number for how long the party spent doing things, and decide is they need to wait a bit longer for the short rest. If the party feels that they need to move, the short rest is lost. There is no penalty for this, so who cares? But for all we know the players may stumble onto a puzzle or a trap and the short rest will come completely free. There is no harm in trying to do this whenever possible and it doesn't slow the party down.

[Man_Over_Game]

On moon druids:

I don't really think moon druids are OP overall, they are just strong at levels 2-4. Level 5 onwards the shepherd druid is on a whole other level. I mean, if you are talking about banning moon druids I can only guess you haven't seen a shepherd druid in action yet, and the shepherd is not short rest dependent.

Moon druids vs. barbs, to me, is more about the barbarians. Barbarians have some terrible archtypes and only 2 good ones. These weak archtypes really scale down their power, however, I don't think a well-built barb is in any danger of being out done by a druid. Heck even a mediocre one is still a better tank. With the Totem archtype I think barbarians are overestimating the power of bear, and underestimating the power of the mobility options. Giving huge speed buffs to an already fast class is pretty incredible, especially when combined with grappling. The bears damage resistance ability only works when they rage. The enemy can just kite them out of rage.

Rage can be forever maintained by just making ranged attacks. Pack Javelins, or even a Longbow, to maintain your Rage effectively.

Even ignoring the Barbarian, the Moon Druid starts to lose it's dramatic power level around level 6, when the average HP of a character is around 45 and the Moon Druid has a 60 HP form that it can shift into twice per SHort Rest.
This is when the Moon Druid starts getting weaker.

[sophontteks]

Rage can be forever maintained by just making ranged attacks. Pack Javelins, or even a Longbow, to maintain your Rage effectively.

Even ignoring the Barbarian, the Moon Druid starts to lose it's dramatic power level around level 6, when the average HP of a character is around 45 and the Moon Druid has a 60 HP form that it can shift into twice per SHort Rest. This is when the Moon Druid starts getting weaker.
You are right, but this is also a significant drop in the barbarians power that wasn't nessesary. A faster barbarian could have already threw that opponent off a cliff in that same time.
Yes Moon druids have lots of Raw HP, but they are also very easy to hit, and their damage really starts to plummet past level 4.

[Tanarii]

But for all we know the players may stumble onto a puzzle or a trap and the short rest will come completely free.
If the puzzle or trap is in the same room, which is required unless they are leaving you behind, stumbling on to it very well may end your attempt to short rest anyway. You're almost certainly going to get drawn in by the excitement.

Of course if you've previously established that your charcater keeps meditating for anything short of personal danger, tuning out all that's going on around them, you might be able to talk a DM into it. Again, ymmv and it'll depend on what the DM envisions is going on and how well you can sell them on what you're envisioning your charcater is doing in response.

[Corran]

This actually circumvents this problem, because the short rests are being done during periods when the party is not under time stress anyway. There is no time-freezing. The players are actively using this time to do activities. We can cut short resting right out of the whole equation and the players would still be spending their time searching for loot and plotting their next move. No additional time has been artificially created in the world. Quite the opposite, time that was handwaved before is now being used and roleplayed.

In practice often the short rest character will need some additional time. The DM can snowball a number for how long the party spent doing things, and decide is they need to wait a bit longer for the short rest. If the party feels that they need to move, the short rest is lost. There is no penalty for this, so who cares? But for all we know the players may stumble onto a puzzle or a trap and the short rest will come completely free. There is no harm in trying to do this whenever possible and it doesn't slow the party down.
Oh, ok, if we are talking about periods when the party is not under stress, then yeah, I dont see any glaring problem with it (aside for coffeelocking shenanigans, but restricting short rests is a bad fix to this anyway; just a ''no'' by the DM is a much more practical solution to that), so count me in.

[Yunru]

Something to note is that you recieve the benefits of a short rest when you spend an hour doing nothing more than light activity, but that doesn't mean things can't be getting done, e.g. travelling by carriage.

[Mordaedil]

In my groups we've just resolved short rest as "between encounters". Long rest is for when we've exhausted majority of resources.

[Unoriginal]

- A short rest is not something "given" to you by the DM. Its an activity your character can choose to do.


That is somewhat incorrect, though.

Yes, you can choose to do it. But only when the DM tells you it's possible to do it (discounting the moments where it is possible, but something can interrupt the rest).

[sophontteks]

If the puzzle or trap is in the same room, which is required unless they are leaving you behind, stumbling on to it very well may end your attempt to short rest anyway. You're almost certainly going to get drawn in by the excitement.

Of course if you've previously established that your charcater keeps meditating for anything short of personal danger, tuning out all that's going on around them, you might be able to talk a DM into it. Again, ymmv and it'll depend on what the DM envisions is going on and how well you can sell them on what you're envisioning your charcater is doing in response.
Short resting rules don't mention movement breaking it, and it certainly doesn't mention being "excited" breaking the short rest. While traveling is a strenuous activity, a character could meander about just as I meander from the fridge and back.

Now we certainly wouldn't want characters moving from room to room while resting, but remaining still is not a requirement. The character is not immobiliized.

Why would meditating make someone less aware of their surroundings? You know meditation is often described as a period of heightened awareness right?

[sophontteks]

That is somewhat incorrect, though.

Yes, you can choose to do it. But only when the DM tells you it's possible to do it (discounting the moments where it is possible, but something can interrupt the rest).
Players are the ones who choose when they take a short rest, just as they choose every other action their character carries out. The DM is the adjudicator of the rules, enforcing the legality of their actions. If the players are trying to conduct an activity that isn't legal the DM would tell they player they can not carry out this action. In this description I don't consider the DM to be giving anything.

Its a response to the common complaint that "The DM doesn't give us enough short rests." In most cases the DM would certainly allow more short rests, and its the players who aren't taking them.

[Contrast]

Short resting rules don't mention movement breaking it, and it certainly doesn't mention being "excited" breaking the short rest. While traveling is a strenuous activity, a character could meander about just as I meander from the fridge and back.

Now we certainly wouldn't want characters moving from room to room while resting, but remaining still is not a requirement. The character is not immobiliized.

Speaking as someone who spends my lunch breaks wandering the parks/museums/art gallery's near my office I would have no objection to someone short resting while moving around. I would probably have them count as surprised if a combat broke out though if they'd stated they were resting.


Why would meditating make someone less aware of their surroundings? You know meditation is often described as a period of heightened awareness right?

This really depends what exactly you're doing. Someone sitting with their eyes closed contemplating the inner meanings of the universe and trying to tune out distractions of the world surrounding them? Yeah they are definitely less aware of their surroundings than the person sitting next to them eating a sandwich. Guy sitting with his eyes open focusing on the colours, sounds, movement and smells around him would likely be fine though. Of course this all falls slightly into the category of real world vs world where Ki is actually a thing that exists and works as well of course. Being a monk doesn't come with rules to naturally increase your passive perception though so if you want the super alert meditating monk, take the Alter/Observant feats.

[Azgeroth]

i will totally subscribe to the idea that there are many 'short rests' (periods of low activity) but to say you can short rest between encounters?

i don't see it as reasonable to take an hour to move from one room to another, is there any corridor, in any dungeon (save for escape tunnels) that take an hour to traverse??? even if you single step, like you would as a bride down the isle.. an hour? really??

admittedly this only applies to dungeons (structures/cave systems) wilderness encounters can totally be hours apart no bones with that one.

I also agree that its reasonable to stop in a dungeon for a short rest at certain times, such as a hard wall (puzzle/obstacle) or you have cleared all but the bbeg/boss room, so you just camp outside the door and take a rest. lock yourselves into room with the mcguffin and watch the door as X tries to do Y.

mega-dungeons are a bit weirder, here i would say its totally possible to gain a short rest, provide you can find some safe space.. but a long rest is essentially 8 consecutive, uninterrupted short rests... thats much much harder.

also, the rangers natural explorer feature is a boon to gaining short rests whilst travelling in wilderness.

as for short rest interruptions, really they are just rest-interruptions, only your more likely to not be suprised, what with you being concious and all.. save for the cat nap spell ofc.

[Tanarii]

Something to note is that you recieve the benefits of a short rest when you spend an hour doing nothing more than light activity, but that doesn't mean things can't be getting done, e.g. travelling by carriage.The rule is not "light activity". That is the rule for Long Rests that mentions light activity.

Ruling it's okay to travel by carriage would require a DM ruling it's not "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."


Short resting rules don't mention movement breaking it, and it certainly doesn't mention being "excited" breaking the short rest. While traveling is a strenuous activity, a character could meander about just as I meander from the fridge and back.As above, that's a DM ruling that it's not "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

[Citan]

I agree with Tanarii's point on YMMV.

I originally read the short rest rules the same way you do, and that's how I run it at my table (when I'm not using home-brewed rest rules, anyway). When the party is in a city or other reasonably safe location, there will naturally be numerous short rests throughout the day. I accordingly originally considered the Warlock the best out-of-combat social/utility caster, since outside of stressful environments they'll likely get the slot(s) back before they need to cast again.

But I've not found any other DMs who run it that way. Instead, most I've played with treat short rests as an hour-long break in the characters' activities, rather than as a consequence of any sufficiently-light activity. At such a table, short rests require the other players' buy-in, and as such has a (small) social cost--enough so that you get annoying if you ask every time your characater would naturally meet the requirements.

One work-around I've found is to have a short-rest dependent character be skilled at cooking and carry high-quality ingredients. If you take a moment to describe the meal your character is making it adds flavor to the game and results in the short rest feeling organic rather than appearing to be an OOC request for a power recharge. That's enough to reliably get three short rests per day so long as there isn't so much time pressure that the party is skipping meals.
Hey ;)

Well I'm sad for you to know that this is your experience. If that can give a bit of light to your heart, I completely share your view about Warlock and similarly consider it the best class for many scouting/spying/manipulating characters. :)
Just taking meals is enough to restore slots. Also, YMMV, but personally as a DM I even allow (sometimes) characters to get the benefit of a short rest when player explains they are just walking around very slowly and calmly. ^^

There is also the whole thing about using some other people's abilities when those people don't care as much about short rests.
Like being carried by a Barbarian (or polymorphed in a beast), being the benefactor of a Catnap, or using a Phantom Steed to catch up with party after having taken a rest in a safe place.

[Yunru]

Ruling it's okay to travel by carriage would require a DM ruling it's not "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."
Pretty sure any DM that rules sitting in a cart is more strenuous than tending wounds would get a lot of sideways and/or cold stares.

[Citan]

Pretty sure any DM that rules sitting in a cart is more strenuous than tending wounds would get a lot of sideways and/or cold stares.
+1000. Some could even see it as a clear provocation into bringing the sad "DM vs players" confrontational view.

[Tanarii]

Pretty sure any DM that rules sitting in a cart is more strenuous than tending wounds would get a lot of sideways and/or cold stares.
Assumption on your part that riding in a carriage (which is what you originally posted) or cart (new claim) isn't strenuous. Everything I've read indicates the former is quite rough. The latter was a way to get wounded from the front for a couple of millennia, so at a slow enough pace it's probably not very strenuous. :smallamused:

Be that as it may, point remains it's a DM ruling.

[Yunru]

Assumption on your part that riding in a carriage (which is what you originally posted) or cart (new claim) isn't strenuous. Everything I've read indicates the former is quite rough. The latter was a way to get wounded from the front for a couple of millennia, so at a slow enough pace it's probably not very strenuous. :smallamused:

Be that as it may, point remains it's a DM ruling.

Have you ridden a horse and cart/carriage? They're very comfortable, and on even the bumpiest road certainly less strenuous than tending wounds.

[Xetheral]

Have you ridden a horse and cart/carriage? They're very comfortable, and on even the bumpiest road certainly less strenuous than tending wounds.

To be fair, "tending wounds" covers a huge range of activities, from putting on a modern sticky bandage to treating battlefield trauma. "Eating" has a range too, from a casual meal to a hot-dog eating contest. In a normal campaign, however, a PC is likely to experience the entire range of "tending wounds", but probably stays closer to the casual-meal end of eating (with occasional exceptions for royal feasts and county fairs).

Giving the variation, using "tending wounds" as a barometer is a little tricky.

[Tanarii]

Have you ridden a horse and cart/carriage? They're very comfortable, and on even the bumpiest road certainly less strenuous than tending wounds.yes on a cart. It wasnt very comfortable but certainly not strenous. No to a carriage.

But thats irrelevant. If we've ridden on either, they'd be modern springed. Like I said, carriages were supposed to be very rough way to travel. Your modern assumptions may not be another DMs assumption.

[Man_Over_Game]

yes on a cart. It wasnt very comfortable but certainly not strenous. No to a carriage.

But thats irrelevant. If we've ridden on either, they'd be modern springed. Like I said, carriages were supposed to be very rough way to travel. Your modern assumptions may not be another DMs assumption.

From a balance standpoint, a Carriage is much more expensive than just riding on a horse, but also likely much slower. There should be some sort of incentive for such an investment, and I think that making the distinction that riding on a Horse doesn't provide a Short Rest where a Carriage does is a perfect reason to upgrade your travel status.

[Tanarii]

From a balance standpoint, a Carriage is much more expensive than just riding on a horse, but also likely much slower. There should be some sort of incentive for such an investment, and I think that making the distinction that riding on a Horse doesn't provide a Short Rest where a Carriage does is a perfect reason to upgrade your travel status.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I let myself get drawn into this debate. Point was, if it's not one of the listed things, you're going to have to sell it to your DM. And different people will have different ideas of what is comparable.

[olskool]

I require a Short Rest to be about an hour. It really doesn't affect the game that much as most "dungeons" on my campaigns are small and can be explored in about an hour. The characters will then retreat to make a campsite and recover. But then I use the following time frames:

Round = 6 seconds.
Minute = 10 rounds.
Turn = 10 minutes (and my standard dungeon encounter roll period).
Hour = 6 turns or 60 minutes.
Period = 4 hours or 240 minutes (and my standard wilderness encounter roll period).
Day = 6 periods or 24 hours.

In a wilderness setting, I have the players resting for 2 Periods (long rest), traveling for 2 Periods, having 1 Period recovering and setting up camp, and 1 Period readying and taking down camp.

[sophontteks]

The rule is not "light activity". That is the rule for Long Rests that mentions light activity.

Ruling it's okay to travel by carriage would require a DM ruling it's not "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

As above, that's a DM ruling that it's not "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

I consider eating, bandaging wounds, reading, drinking all to be light activity. It's a step above no activity, however, I see that its actually described as jogging and such. That is not what I mean.


Honestly, I'm not sure how I let myself get drawn into this debate. Point was, if it's not one of the listed things, you're going to have to sell it to your DM. And different people will have different ideas of what is comparable.

We can assume that the DM is reasonable. That is the entire point of this thread. Making short rests reasonable and fluid.

[Pyramid Pug]

I really don't understand how folks have trouble with short resting. On one of my campaigns I play a warlock and if a certain amount of time has passed since a significant event, I ask my DM how much time has passed since X and if we didn't do anything strenuous (like say any activity that involves a dice roll) I then ask him if that would qualify as a short rest.

Just this session a couple hours ago I did this and he was "Nope, you were investigating the cart.. wait no, that was the rest of the party, you were upstairs talking to the stable manager, yeah let's say it counts."

The short rest description are examples, not a checklist limited to. A leisurely walk in a city, browsing and shopping, having a drink in a bar, etc would count. A slow crawl in a tense, potentially hostile place like a dungeon wouldn't, even if nothing happens and I'm not the one doing perception checks.

Seriously, all this talk about making classes OP and whatnot.. I love playing warlock, am playing it (and planning) to be single class and that class is hardly considered OP by any standard (tho not at original ranger lvls). My party consists of a Bard, a Fighter/Rogue and a Monk, and all of them jump at the chance of a short rest and would be the first ones to suggest it so we can recoup what resources we may before the next challenge (especially since we use my spells OoC a lot, I'm an invisibility battery 😂).

I've never encountered this... well "jealously" for lack of a better word.. of long rest classes towards short rest ones (especially when the long rest ones are usually thought to be the stronger ones) at any table I played in. Why wouldn't I want my team mates to be at their (possible) best?

That said, we take short and long rests when it makes sense to do so, we don't do 5 minute day adventuring after all. Wasn't a particularly eventful day but night is falling and we're on unknown territory? Sure, let's set up camp and recoup that couple of spells we spent and that hit point the fighter lost due to a hanged nail. We're running on fumes on a hostile territory with the high probability of patrols stumbling into us? No rests of any kind for no one 'till we can find a somewhat secluded/defensible place.

Above all I feel DnD is a narrative activity made for fun of everyone, not a mathematical equation or a checklist to be adhered to. Good narrative has pacing, with moments for jovial resting and folly with powers and abilities, as well as tense moments of running on fumes.

I do agree however (and this has been mentioned several times in the forum) that introducing two kinds of rests into the game with classes leaning towards one or the other, made it harder for a DM to balance things out (on top of everything they have to keep track of already).

[Mordaedil]

We've considered giving other characters more things to recover on short rests, but we've run into problem of some of them being kinda broken, so I'd like to hear more suggestions on ones that don't break the game in half like a twig.

For instance, the barbarian gaining back a single use of rage on short rest. Is this too much?

For a sorcerer, we started dicsussing restoring sorcery points equal to his or her charisma modifier, then he reminded us that that is basically his level 20 ability (except it is a strict 4 points instead). Would it be broken to let them stack?

We're already cautious about restoring spellslots on short rest, because it infringes on the wizards level 20 ability and the warlocks territory. Is the game already perfectly balanced to the point where these don't need any benefit from short rests?

[Arial Black]

It's not really, "I'm going to spend the next hour resting", although you can certainly say that and intend to; you just might get interrupted and your short rest plans go awry.

What it really is: "Hey DM, has it been at least an hour since I did anything strenuous?". If the answer is "Yes" then you can choose to take the benefits of a short rest if you want to.

It's done by looking back at the last hour, not by looking forward to the next hour.

[Demonslayer666]

...
What it really is: "Hey DM, has it been at least an hour since I did anything strenuous?". If the answer is "Yes" then you can choose to take the benefits of a short rest if you want to.

...

I can't think of any situation where I as a DM would say you could not have taken a short rest here, but if you took the benefits of a short without telling the DM you take a short rest, that's quite shifty behavior.

I feel that you should always be open and honest with the DM on what you want to accomplish and significant changes to your character sheet. In this situation, I think it would be much better to ask the DM if you could have taken a short rest during that time, rather than taking the benefits on your own without their knowledge.

[Man_Over_Game]

I can't think of any situation where I as a DM would say you could not have taken a short rest here, but if you took the benefits of a short without telling the DM you take a short rest, that's quite shifty behavior.

I feel that you should always be open and honest with the DM on what you want to accomplish and significant changes to your character sheet. In this situation, I think it would be much better to ask the DM if you could have taken a short rest during that time, rather than taking the benefits on your own without their knowledge.

At that point, though, the DM would have to be looking for a reason not to apply the Short Rest. Not to mention that most Short Rest resources are not things that provide any benefit when spammed (some Warlock spells do, but not most). Hit die can be used, but since it's a limited resource, there's no benefit to having too many chance to spend it. If the DM says you get one Short Rest before the big fight or if he says you get two, there's not much difference.

[Demonslayer666]

At that point, though, the DM would have to be looking for a reason not to apply the Short Rest. Not to mention that most Short Rest resources are not things that provide any benefit when spammed (some Warlock spells do, but not most). Hit die can be used, but since it's a limited resource, there's no benefit to having too many chance to spend it. If the DM says you get one Short Rest before the big fight or if he says you get two, there's not much difference.

Agreed, but its not about qualifying for the short rest, it's about telling the DM what you are trying to accomplish. I don't feel like a player should be making those changes without informing the DM what they are doing.

It feels like a player trying to 'gotcha' the DM, rather than being open and honest.

[Man_Over_Game]

Agreed, but its not about qualifying for the short rest, it's about telling the DM what you are trying to accomplish. I don't feel like a player should be making those changes without informing the DM what they are doing.

It feels like a player trying to 'gotcha' the DM, rather than being open and honest.

I get that, but the alternative is: "Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?...", which is generally the reason why people don't ask about Short Rests to begin with.

[Arial Black]

I can't think of any situation where I as a DM would say you could not have taken a short rest here, but if you took the benefits of a short without telling the DM you take a short rest, that's quite shifty behavior.

I feel that you should always be open and honest with the DM on what you want to accomplish and significant changes to your character sheet. In this situation, I think it would be much better to ask the DM if you could have taken a short rest during that time, rather than taking the benefits on your own without their knowledge.

I said you can, at that point, gain the benefits of a short rest if you want to.

In no way did I imply that you do this without informing the DM! I'm not trying to sneak it past him!

My post was about how we go about getting a short rest, not about fooling the DM.

[Yunru]

We do have a way that we use I thought I might share.
We can have an "Adrenaline Surge" as an action, bonus action, or reaction to gain the benefits of a short rest. But only once. All an hour break does, is recharge your use of Adrenaline Surge.