What Tiers Are The Paladins Ranked In?

[Bartmanhomer]

I need to know what the four paladins class (LG Paladin, LE Paladin Of Tyranny, CG Paladin Of Freedom and CE Paladin Of Slaughter) ranked in?

[eggynack]

My retiering thread that included paladins (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521476-Retiering-the-Classes-Duskblade-Hexblade-Paladin-Ranger-Sohei-Spellthief) landed them in tier four. I'm rather skeptical that the variants are enough better to justify tier three, and it doesn't seem like there's much of a downgrade such that they'd go to tier five.

[Bartmanhomer]

My retiring thread that included paladins (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521476-Retiering-the-Classes-Duskblade-Hexblade-Paladin-Ranger-Sohei-Spellthief) landed them in tier four. I'm rather sceptical that the variants are enough better to justify tier three, and it doesn't seem like there's much of a downgrade such that they'd go to tier five.

Ok. Thank you. I thought of the same thing about the variant being in tier three as well because of their special abilities and divine spells. Thank you.

[Troacctid]

Paladin of freedom is about the same as the normal paladin and barely even constitutes a change. (I personally think Aura of Resolve > Aura of Courage because fear immunity is a lot easier to get in other ways, so it's slightly better, but not much.)

Paladin of tyranny and paladin of slaughter are worse than the normal paladin because their spell lists are heavily nerfed. They probably drop by less than half a tier, though, so they're still in T4, just a bit lower.

[Bartmanhomer]

Paladin of freedom is about the same as the normal paladin and barely even constitutes a change. (I personally think Aura of Resolve > Aura of Courage because fear immunity is a lot easier to get in other ways, so it's slightly better, but not much.)

Paladin of tyranny and paladin of slaughter are worse than the normal paladin because their spell lists are heavily nerfed. They probably drop by less than half a tier, though, so they're still in T4, just a bit lower.

Ok. So they're Tier 4.5 then.

[The Viscount]

Paladin of freedom is about the same as the normal paladin and barely even constitutes a change. (I personally think Aura of Resolve > Aura of Courage because fear immunity is a lot easier to get in other ways, so it's slightly better, but not much.)

Paladin of tyranny and paladin of slaughter are worse than the normal paladin because their spell lists are heavily nerfed. They probably drop by less than half a tier, though, so they're still in T4, just a bit lower.

Is this operating under the assumption that because slaughter and tyranny have new lists they don't get to add any of the spells introduced outside of core? If so I definitely agree, just want to make sure I understand.

[Troacctid]

Is this operating under the assumption that because slaughter and tyranny have new lists they don't get to add any of the spells introduced outside of core? If so I definitely agree, just want to make sure I understand.
That and the fact that their healing abilities are nerfed hard.

[Bartmanhomer]

That and the fact that their healing abilities are nerfed hard.

I thought that the Paladin of Tyranny and the Paladin of Slaughter don't have healing abilities. :confused:

[Troacctid]

I thought that the Paladin of Tyranny and the Paladin of Slaughter don't have healing abilities. :confused:
If you look at their list, you notice they do still get cure spells a level higher than normal.

They don't get lay on hands, though, and they lose a bunch of spells to remove status conditions, notably lesser restoration.

[tyckspoon]

I thought that the Paladin of Tyranny and the Paladin of Slaughter don't have healing abilities. :confused:

They don't get Lay on Hands, but they do still have some of the Cure Wounds line in their spell lists; the spell levels are increased, so it's kind of penalized, but it does mean they can still use standbys like Wands of Cure Light Wounds normally. They do lose the higher level status-repair spells; they don't get Restoration or Lesser Restoration, Cure Blindness/Deafness, or Remove Curse. Sure, they're high level spells for normal Paladins, but the fact that they're on their lists mean they can use clerical-crafted scrolls of the spells without much difficulty.

[Bartmanhomer]

They don't get Lay on Hands, but they do still have some of the Cure Wounds lines in their spell lists; the spell levels are increased, so it's kind of penalized, but it does mean they can still use standbys like Wands of Cure Light Wounds normally. They do lose the higher level status-repair spells; they don't get Restoration or Lesser Restoration, Cure Blindness/Deafness, or Remove Curse. Sure, they're high-level spells for normal Paladins, but the fact that they're on their lists mean they can use clerical-crafted scrolls of the spells without much difficulty.
Ok, that makes sense and sounds reasonable. :smile:

[Yogibear41]

In our world the LE, CG, and CE paladin gain all of the paladin spells outside of core as long as they don't have a conflicting alignment subtype attached to them.

So LE paladins can use the lawful version of holy sword, while CG and CE can't. And LE can use all new paladin spells that don't have [good] attached to them, and CE can use all the ones that don't have [good] or [law] etc.

Losing out on lesser restoration/restoration does hurt though.

Bestow curse is pretty situational but can be rather nice against the right opponents. (its good again most things, but your Save DC will be pretty low by time you get it, so you have to hit things with bad saves)

I would also say that the LE paladin is superior to the CE one.

Dragon Magazine had additional variants for Paladin alignments with different spell lists too. The CE paladin gets ray of enfeeblement as a 1st level spell for example which is a pretty good debuff imo.