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igordragonian
2019-02-20, 07:35 PM
I am working on advenure, and wonder if other have exprience with it-
grimm nature survival- how to make it intresting?

DaOldeWolf
2019-02-20, 07:48 PM
I am working on advenure, and wonder if other have exprience with it-
grimm nature survival- how to make it intresting?
I was once in an adventure of that kind (not for that long though). I remember the most important things were the limited resources we could have, looking for safe places to sleep, finding food and water, being careful not to waste anything and avoid poison, venom and fangs. It helps if there is something after you to keep you moving (whether is something in the climate or a real dangerous and posibly invincible creature.)

Darth Ultron
2019-02-20, 08:04 PM
Have like a Nature Elemental.


Though really ''nature" makes a Poor Enemy for an RPG, unless your playing Survivor the RPG.

Few RPGs even have ''nature" rules...and when they do it's all vague. The game might have rules for like cataclysmic storms...but often not much eels.

The vast majority of "nature" is very boring for RPGs. Like keeping track of water...or worse things like ''sunstroke points" or "frostbite points". Oh, no, at like five points the character will get a -2 to rolls.

Even ''exciting" things like climbing a cliff is very boring in an RPG....you roll a 10 and climb up.

You really want another enemy.

igordragonian
2019-02-21, 03:07 AM
Well there animals and monsters roaming.
Maybe anyone know some random weather chart or something like that?

JoeJ
2019-02-21, 03:16 AM
Critical Hit Publishing has a series of wilderness supplements for D&D 5e called Cinematic Environs (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?keywords=Cinematic+Environs&manufacturers_id=4531&x=0&y=0&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=) that deals with this.

Kaptin Keen
2019-02-21, 03:18 AM
I am working on advenure, and wonder if other have exprience with it-
grimm nature survival- how to make it intresting?

Well it depends on what you want. I have a homebrew campaign world where nature isn't so much the enemy - but is quite visibly and forcibly organised in opposition to civilization. To such an extent that civilization is quite limited, with only a few (five, to be exact) major enclaves of one large city with outlying farms and villages each. And enormous stretches of untamed wilderness in between - and also the remains of destroyed settlements that nature decided they weren't going to put up with.

At the deeper level, it's the work of a few powerful druids, who actively manipulate nature - using primarily barbarous tribes of gnolls, centaur and similar creatures to push back when they see civilization poking their noses too far forward.

So that's one way of going at it. And it creates some tools to work with, an organising force behind what's happening. And my druids are generally sort of ... benign-ish and helpful, popping up in advance to sort of warn that things aren't going to go well. In one case a druid came to the pc's campfire, and told them 'oh, the area around those mesas is really dangerous, I wouldn't go there if I were you. Better to maybe just head back.' Then, when the players arrived at those mesas, they found the same druid commanding the gnoll tripes who lived there.

Another example is a larger town, where another druid went in the guise of a sage and seer, and forewarned of a great fire and monsters of the wild who would arrive with great fury and vengeance. Then he went off, and organised just such an attack, and razed the town to the ground.

They're not evil, see? Just quite firmly decided what the proper balance between nature and civilization should be =)

igordragonian
2019-02-21, 06:07 AM
Again. Thank you.
Well, this campigan, is actually about a Winter Witch who cast an eternal winter and the heroes trying to bring spring back.

She does have minions and army, but for this adventure I don't want direct conflict.
I guess I'll check the book

Hand_of_Vecna
2019-02-21, 11:21 AM
While most game systems aren't natively set up to make survival itself in the wilderness challenging it isn't hard to fit it. What system are you using something D&Dish or something more narrative?

As others have pointed out at it's inception D&D was primarily a resource management game with heavy roleplaying being an add-on. Making the natural world a major obstacle just involves giving the players new resources to manage. How detailed this gets depends on your and your players knowledge of survival techniques and your patience for bookkeeping. Low level/low magic is probably best otherwise too many issues are easily solved with magic or really high skill checks, no need to carry a fire bundle if it's a literal or figurative snap of the fingers to start a fire in the rain without one.

The natural world is actually the primary obstacle in Mouseguard which is an excellent game built on lighter variant of burning wheel. Granted that game is in a scale version of our world so anything bigger than a weasel is a kaiju, but you can draw inspiration from such a game (or run a game about mysterious eternal winter in mouseguard). Mouseguard is light on logistics and applies conditions like hungry, tired, injured, upon characters after they compromise to succeed after a failed roll.

I've even added wilderness survival to a children's LARP camp adding a day night cycle with resource gathering. We kept things simple with the only resources being food, water, wood, stone, iron ore, and later rope. The campers announced their actions for the day and then went to pantomime their actions and they were then given resources based on their class, tools, and quality of pantomiming; wood was large foam tiles which could interlock to build structures (building was also an action), rope was karate belts, and the rest of the resources were different color poker chips.

I recommend playing the video game the Long Dark if you can get a good price since your planning a cold weather survival game.

Mastikator
2019-02-21, 12:57 PM
I think the most important aspect of a grim nature survival game is that the PCs can't escape back into civilization too easily. Make them ship wrecked on an uninhabited island, or lost in an enchanted/cursed forest, or drive them into the mountains with an overwhelming threat of death by orc-army (and make it an actual army, 100 thousand strong foot soldiers all better equipped than the PCs)

Thrawn4
2019-02-21, 01:28 PM
Knowing the system would really help a lot.

Anyway, remember that people used to die of very basic things: cold, starvation, predators, dehydration.
In a high magic setting, that's not a big issue, but with only little magic it can be an exciting campaign. You don't need monsters and stuff if a fall into the water can deprive you of your body warmth.

Bookkeeping helps, but really you can just add penalties and decrease hit points if people go too long without a certain ressource.

What are the PCs like? Are they suited for wilderness adventures, or should you add some rangers for hire? Maybe a side quest to get some permanent protection from cold? Or is the adventure about establishing an outpost/HQ that they can use to scout?

denthor
2019-02-21, 01:46 PM
The best I can come up with.

A nature event:

large thunderstorm

Disrupts you spell set as any caster if you are not a druid or worship a god of storms, if mage a d20 roll to get the spells +4 if also one of the above +8 if both

earthquake

Same as above except dwarf or other earth qualifications.

high winds

AIR types

JoeJ
2019-02-21, 02:00 PM
Is magic even a thing? I didn't see anything indicating what game this is for.

Erloas
2019-02-21, 04:16 PM
If you're looking for a system, or have a type of system in mind and want to know how to modify it, will make a big difference in suggestions.

One hard, but important, question is: what is "interesting" to you and the players? Keeping track of weight, food, water, directions, shelter, heat and cold, are all pretty mundane things that are what makes survival challenging in real life. "How much food can we carry?" is a meaningless question if you're using a d20 system where "survival" is a single roll over a 10 on a d20 and it is really easy to start with a +8 modifier. But if just catching a rabbit to eat takes a reasonable chunk of time and involves several tasks, it becomes something worth tracking and playing out.

Fighting off a bear is a big deal if one hit could likely kill or maim you, but it is nothing special if you've got a gun/magic/attack that will kill it with little to no actual danger involved.

That also doesn't mean there can't be magic, or other supernatural abilities, but those have to be scaled to the world. If "create food" is a magical ability that can easily be done often and without any consequences then that makes the food side of survival meaningless. If there are hard/dangerous limits to magical use then deciding if magicing food or getting it the mundane way becomes an actual and interesting choice.

While "reality" shows are pretty far from actual reality, they do give an idea of how "mundane" survival can be interesting. They aren't interesting in the same was a Hollywood blockbuster are, but they've got their own aspects that make them interesting. Likewise, you can make an interesting survival game, but it is going to be interesting in very different ways compared to your common RPG like D&D.

Pauly
2019-02-21, 07:42 PM
Some thoughts based on reading accounts of people who have been in survival situations in nature IRL.

1) Is this campaign going to be about building a base or completing a journey? If it’s the latter you need some form of ticking clock that will force the players to move on if they stay in one place too long.

2) Having encounters with other people is fine as long as (a) the people cannot help them in any way apart from giving some plot points or (b) are so dangerous that the party [eg a caravan of slavers] that the party have to hide from them. If doing option (b) you have to make it 100% clear combat is not an option.

3) IRL in hot climates water management is the critical resource. In cold climates fire/heat management is the critical resource. People who have some degree of what d&d calls “survival” skill rarely starve, thirst or exposure are the killers.

4) Navigation is an issue that needs to be addressed. I am assuming no maps or compasses. Make sure, especially in the early sessions that party is orientating themselves either by the sun or by landmarks. Don’t be afraid to let them get lost.

5) the party needs some medical/healing ability. Without it people will die.

Mechalich
2019-02-21, 08:08 PM
Again. Thank you.
Well, this campigan, is actually about a Winter Witch who cast an eternal winter and the heroes trying to bring spring back.

She does have minions and army, but for this adventure I don't want direct conflict.
I guess I'll check the book

Eternal Winter is, in terms of terrestrial ecosystems, a deeply unnatural environment. Even Antarctica has a summer, albeit a brief one. Land plants require consistent and prolonged periods with temperatures above 0 C in order to function. If you don't have that, then you don't have any terrestrial producers and therefore you don't have a terrestrial ecosystem. Antarctica's summer's are sufficiently brief and inconsistent that there's only plant life on the peninsula and the largest terrestrial animal is a flightless midge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgica_antarctica), everything else is dependent upon the marine ecosystem. In a land of Eternal Winter anything living there is either alien and functions utilizing alternative biotic pathways to pretty much anything known on earth, living in water, or magical.

As such, a survival adventure in a such an environment is closer to organizing an expedition to the South Pole. You're talking about traversing a wasteland of ice and rock with terrain untamed by biotic processes and having to pack in with you everything you need. Nature won't be the enemy, because there won't be much nature, instead the enemy is cold, blizzards, and crevasses.

jayem
2019-02-22, 03:55 PM
Fundamentally the two differences between a 'Sentient Enemy' and 'Natural Enemy' encounter are that the Sentient Enemy has 90% of the book written about them and that they 'care' about the fight.
The book problem means that needs sorting out, I think terrain could be gamified (in a way that encourages roleplay).
The caring issues don't seem all that significant, as far as I can see. You just have to build things up so the natural response is interesting (which it kind of is by default).

Bohandas
2019-02-22, 04:07 PM
Is this realistic nature or haunted forest/fey/nature cultists nature?

igordragonian
2019-02-24, 06:20 PM
first thing- thank you for the help!
it's a fairy-ish thing.
I actually found very neat rules in the One Ring system, and I think I'll use them in spirit.
There journey require four diffrent roles in order for the journey to be succesful.

Shuruke
2019-02-24, 07:55 PM
The world I am currently doing is a post apocalyptic western like world in a place that has 2 very hot suns

Water his something people kill for
And the worlds currency is small eggs that contain small amounts of water (10gp each) and bullets (10-100gp each depending on gun)

But
For natural danger every day takes 2 waterskins or gain 3 levels of exaughstion

Either way each hour of travel lowers max hp by 1 due to fire damage this reduction lasts till an entire day protected from sun

Creatures with fire resistance suffer half of above effects rounded up


Itsna rough world and most people are only out for themselves.

Towns are often war grounds due to springs that magically keep wells full.

People will sometimes set ambushes at these wells and etc

Finding food is rough but not impossible and isnt one of main difficulties.

The difficulties are whether to skip this town and risk running out of water but have to mayne use a bullet if things get rough.

Currently the travel is added difficulty for travelling
Right now their in a happy go lucky town that's full of joy and etc when its really just stuck in a time loop of it going from being happy to ending.

Players are jist now getting through first played through loop (rolled a d100 to figure out how many theyve gone through and left notes in their own hand writing, other misc clues that are personal etc.)


Just don't get to caught up in the nature itself being difficult

Instead have things like

X way is more dangerous with less conflict and if confloct does happen it'll be rough

Y way is easier but with a lot more conflict and the conflict will leave lasting effects

X and Y have things u can prepare for and plan


Z way is easier travel wise and conflict wise but their is an unknown hazard that has been talked about.

For my group they chose travel underground and came across the town Hoslitality the Z option
They don't have water issues and havent lost anything other than 6 months game time where family etc is worrying.


Just find ways to make it fun even though things like good berry create food and water and etc exist

Don't have it be the obstacle have it be one of the many obstacles.

Bohandas
2019-02-25, 02:01 AM
Check out the "Weird Forest Encounters" thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?511604-quot-Weird-forest-quot-encounters

LibraryOgre
2019-02-25, 10:14 AM
So, while not explicitly "nature", I did have a party become the subject of a Grand Hunt of Malar. A bunch of Malarite druids and rangers, hunting them down. The key, I found, was to limit their ability to rest. Make sure they were interrupted a couple times each night... even if they COULD beat the foes, a couple rounds of combat spoiled their spell recovery and healing.

Also, pay attention to the weather. I find that a lot of games just sort of ignore weather, but if nature is your enemy, then you need to consider it.

Yora
2019-02-25, 03:55 PM
I once read something that I think was about jungles, which said something in the way of extreme environments being so dangerous because they make all the things you usually don't think about incredibly difficult. Something that normally seems like no big deal or just a small inconvenience can easily end up killing you when you are not prepared.
Big scary animals that can eat you are a thing, but usually not what ends up killing humans in the wilds. After all, humans are one of the biggest and scariest animals thay can eat almost anything.

Based on that idea, I came up with a number of ideas in which the environment can cause trouble without any attack rolls.

The first thing is supplies. Humans rely heavily on tools to get anything done. When you don't have your familiar tools, all tasks take much longer and have a greater risk of going wrong. Because of this, I track how much PCs can carry and how fast they can move. If they carry little they can get out of the environment much faster, but then they will have to deal with later obstacles without their tools.

The other big thing is vision. There are lots of ways in which poor visibility can be a serious obstacle. When it's dark or foggy, ranged weapons lose their advantage and you are much more likely to not spot a danger until you are right next to it. Heavy vegetation does the same job.
Darkness can be countered by light, but that also comes with various problems. Primarily making you extremely visible to anything in the darkness and making it impossible to get the jump on them. Most light sources also need to be carried in a hand, which makes it difficult to fight or climb.

Another thing I personally have a lot of fun with as GM is water. Water impedes visibility, making it easy for creatures to surprise attack. It also slows down movement considerable. If the water is too deep to walk through, characters can no longer fight efficiently. And they might have to find solutions to deal with the weight of their gear. If light sources are fire, you can't use them while swimming and easily lose them while fighting.
I did not have the opportunity to try it out yet, but I really want to hide optional areas behind short flooded tunnels. No real risk of drowning, but PCs can't get to them without diving and soaking everything they take with them.

And because I am mean, there are no long duration light spells in my games. :smalltongue:

I also don't ignore temperature. If the air is cold, being soaked will kill quickly.

Poisonous smoke is also fun. Nothing that kills immediately, but just something that makes it impossible to stay for more than just a few moments.
Fire will also do that job.

A simple one that still adds a lot to any encounter is heavily overgrown or otherwise obstructed terrain. Slowing down movement makes all well positioned ranged attackers much more dangerous. Players can use that to their advantage, but it will just as well work against them.

I think ideally the environment itself does not pose any real threat of harm. But it should make players dread the possibility that they have to fight in it.