5e confusion

[jdizzlean]

i've been a 3.5 player for just about forever. we're doing a one off game this weekend to give 5e (basic) a shot. i'm thinking wood elf ranger. i don't know if it's from level 1, or something higher, nor what creation rules are stats-wise. It seems like DEX will be key, followed by WIS for casting, then of course CON, and the other 3 are basically irrelevant.

i just want to clarify a few things that just seem 'off' to me.

there's no skill points at all? you just either get to add your proficiency bonus to an ability, or you don't?

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?

beast master looks pointless compared to hunter, at what point would beast master become relevant?

anything else that might be of help?

[JNAProductions]

i've been a 3.5 player for just about forever. we're doing a one off game this weekend to give 5e (basic) a shot. i'm thinking wood elf ranger. i don't know if it's from level 1, or something higher, nor what creation rules are stats-wise. It seems like DEX will be key, followed by WIS for casting, then of course CON, and the other 3 are basically irrelevant.

i just want to clarify a few things that just seem 'off' to me.

(1) there's no skill points at all? you just either get to add your proficiency bonus to an ability, or you don't?

(2) why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?

(3) beast master looks pointless compared to hunter, at what point would beast master become relevant?

(4) anything else that might be of help?

1-That's accurate. Rogues and Bards do have an ability called Expertise that lets them double it, but for most characters, it's Stat Bonus, or Stat Bonus plus Proficiency.

2-Your stats at 20, for instance. You want a new ability instead of number bumps.

Let me give you an example. Your Wizard has low HP and poor Con saves. Now, you could, at levels 4 and 8, increase your Con by +2 each time, granting you a total of +2 to Con saves and +2 HP/level by level 8.
OR! You take Tough and Resilient (Con), in any order. Now, at level 8, you get +2 HP/Level and +3 to Con saves, increasing with level.

Usually, though, ASIs are better spent on stats than feats. YMMV, though.

3-Yeah, Beast Master, while it can keep mechanically, is just not fun. It's just poorly designed on the way it feels. I'd just pick another subclass, honestly.

4-Not that I can think of specifically. But hope you have fun!

[Cuaqchi]

i've been a 3.5 player for just about forever. we're doing a one off game this weekend to give 5e (basic) a shot. i'm thinking wood elf ranger. i don't know if it's from level 1, or something higher, nor what creation rules are stats-wise. It seems like DEX will be key, followed by WIS for casting, then of course CON, and the other 3 are basically irrelevant.

i just want to clarify a few things that just seem 'off' to me.

there's no skill points at all? you just either get to add your proficiency bonus to an ability, or you don't?

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?

beast master looks pointless compared to hunter, at what point would beast master become relevant?

anything else that might be of help?

Correct on skills. You'll get proficient skills from your background, class, and any feats or class features that add to the list. Being proficient will give anywhere from +2 to +6 depending on the characters level. This is one of the many important changes from 3.X that keeps numbers from becoming bloated as a DC 20 is still a toss up for even a 20th level character, while remotely possible for someone with no training instead of quite simply being unable to assist in anything after around level 5-6 unless you buried ranks in the skill.

You'll take feats because the maximum a stat can be without magical effects raising them is 20. So once you have a Dex 20 you can't get any more to your too hit with the Longbow for example than your Proficiency (again +2 to +6) or the magical value of the weapon (+1 to +3). The feats allow for extra tricks or abilities to complement the characters ingrained options. This capped attack bonus, like the the capped skills again makes even the most irrelevant monsters a potential presence at high levels simply because they can hit, and be potentially missed, by even 20th level characters.


Beast Master is very good for getting secondary effects into a combat if you know what the party composition is like. Melee Rogue? Have your Wolf knock down opponents. Yuan-Ti in the party, or an assassin? Giant Poisonous Snake for profit. Small size Range? Flight/Climb Speed.

[Solusek]

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?


JNAProductions did a good job of answering your other questions, but I want to expand on this one a bit. There are plenty of feats that could be better than taking a stat increase. Some feats let you do things that you otherwise couldn't do at all.

The Shield Master feat lets you make a bonus action shove/trip attempt. You can do this every round! This very well could be more powerful than +2 strength for a tank character.

Great Weapon Master feat gives you the 5e versions of power attack and cleave combined. Is this better than +2 strength? Maybe!

Inspiring Leader gives everyone in the party bonus temporary hit points each time you short rest. I have always taken this feat at 8th level when playing charisma based characters. I find it better than boosting CHA another 2 points. It's like an extra 60+ hit points spread out over the party every short rest!

These are just a few examples. Not all feats are amazing, but many of them are pretty good and let your character have interesting combat or non-combat effects that they otherwise wouldn't.

[ad_hoc]

Forget everything you know about 3e.

In my experience the people who have the hardest time learning 5e are 3e players.

As for Ranger - Hunter gives you +1d8 damage when fighting tough creatures. Beastmaster gives you a beast who can defend allies, get OAs, give disadvantage to ranged enemies, scout, guard areas, etc. etc.

[Solusek]

Forget everything you know about 3e.

In my experience the people who have the hardest time learning 5e are 3e players.


This is good advice too! They are superficially similar games so you can easily get trapped thinking about 5e in the 3e mindset and drawing bad conclusions.

Funny enough, I didn't find it too bad transitioning from Pathfinder (which is basically 3e) to 5e, but when I tried to go back again to a Pathfinder game after 3 years of playing only 5e it was overwhelming and foreign feeling. Like my mind has completely switched to 5e mode now. It's real hard to go back again.

[jdizzlean]

another thing

for ranger, it says HD d10 or d6

when and how and why would it ever change

[JNAProductions]

another thing

for ranger, it says HD d10 or d6

when and how and why would it ever change

It says 1d10 (6).

As in, roll 1d10, or take the average rounded up, which is 6.

[Asmotherion]

i've been a 3.5 player for just about forever. we're doing a one off game this weekend to give 5e (basic) a shot. i'm thinking wood elf ranger. i don't know if it's from level 1, or something higher, nor what creation rules are stats-wise. It seems like DEX will be key, followed by WIS for casting, then of course CON, and the other 3 are basically irrelevant.

i just want to clarify a few things that just seem 'off' to me.

there's no skill points at all? you just either get to add your proficiency bonus to an ability, or you don't?

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?

beast master looks pointless compared to hunter, at what point would beast master become relevant?

anything else that might be of help?

A) Yeap you got that right. They simplyfied the whole concept of skills into proficiency. You're either proficient in something or not and your bonus (scales with level) shows how much.

B) Some of the feats are really great and have great synergy with class abilities and each other. Also some people play with rolled stats allowing you to start with at least 1 18 and that's more or less enough to use a racial adjustment of a +2 to one stat to have the soft cap of 20 on your core stat for SAD classes.

C) The brutal honest truth is 5e made the ranger probably the worst class in the game. They also were pretty cruel with the Drow Race. They probably thought "hey a lot of people will want to build Drizzt Clones so let's give them a hard time doing so". i don't believe it was a terrible choice in retrospective. if anything for said character's integrity.

[Mordaedil]

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?

anything else that might be of help?
Have you seen the feats in this edition? They are pretty powerful stuff.

Instead of just having Power Attack, you get effectively 2-handed Power Attack and Cleave in one feat. Alert feat gives you a +5 bonus to Initiative and the benefits of Uncanny Dodge as well as a few other feats from 3.5 that basically allow you to ignore surprise.

I would also point out that because Base Attack Bonus isn't a thing anymore, that yes, a wizard could fight as well as a fighter with a dagger, but they can do better by sticking with their thing which usually involves flinging cantrips around. While the spell list is fairly similar to 3.5, cantrips are given a significant kick up and actually became your default attack option as a caster in this edition.

[Kurald Galain]

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?
Learning a new option is usually more powerful, and certainly more interesting, than becoming 5% better at something you could already do. So if your DM allows feats, feats are the better option until you run out of feats that fit your build.

[Azgeroth]

having never played 3e, i can't give specific advise on what to look out for..

but some basic advise.

5e is often cited as being ruled by, Action economy (how many attacks the party has vs the enemy) and Bounded Accuracy (bonuses are apparently smaller and simpler, less math overall).

as for build advise, i would suggest just using the standard array, 15,14,13,12,10,8 assign as you like.

definitely take hunter over beast master.

if you want specific or more detailed build advise, i.e. presribed stat distribution, skill picks, background suggestion. just ask!

also, if you looking for tactical/in-game advise again just ask! i know there are some big differences in the way skills work and play out in 5e as opposed to other editions, just have a look at all the stealth vs perception threads...

edit : oh! also, ask your DM if you can use the revised ranger instead, its a free pdf, it is markedly better than the PHB ranger, though i would stick to hunter.

[Boci]

having never played 3e, i can't give specific advise on what to look out for..

but some basic advise.

5e is often cited as being ruled by, Action economy (how many attacks the party has vs the enemy) and Bounded Accuracy (bonuses are apparently smaller and simpler, less math overall).

as for build advise, i would suggest just using the standard array, 15,14,13,12,10,8 assign as you like.

I don't think that's best for a woodelf ranger. You put 14 in dex, but where do you put the 15? 16 wis is likely overkill, the 13 can go there, so the 15 probably going in con, but then why not make it 14 and upgrade the 8 to a 10 or the 10 to a 12 (unless you were planning on taking resilience early).

I guess you could go Dex 17, Con and Wis 14 and then grab a +1 dex feat at level 4 like elven accuracy, though I have been told only warlocks are allowed to take that feat (/sarcasm).

[Azgeroth]

I don't think that's best for a woodelf ranger. You put 14 in dex, but where do you put the 15? 16 wis is likely overkill, the 13 can go there, so the 15 probably going in con, but then why not make it 14 and upgrade the 8 to a 10 or the 10 to a 12 (unless you were planning on taking resilience early).

I guess you could go Dex 17, Con and Wis 14 and then grab a +1 dex feat at level 4 like elven accuracy, though I have been told only warlocks are allowed to take that feat (/sarcasm).

i wasn't suggesting how to spread those stats, only that going with the standard array is the easiest/quickest way. 15, 15, 15, 8, 8, 8 is the other option ofc. but the standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 is almost always a better choice.

[Boci]

i wasn't suggesting how to spread those stats, only that going with the standard array is the easiest/quickest way. 15, 15, 15, 8, 8, 8 is the other option ofc. but the standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 is almost always a better choice.

Yeah but 14, 14, 13, 12, 10, 10 or 14, 14, 13, 12, 12, 8 is even better in this case, and its a fairly minor tweak.

[Azgeroth]

Yeah but 14, 14, 13, 12, 10, 10 or 14, 14, 13, 12, 12, 8 is even better in this case, and its a fairly minor tweak.

agree 100%, though i think they are playying with the SRD, and i dont know if that has the rules for point-buy.

[Willie the Duck]

i've been a 3.5 player for just about forever...
anything else that might be of help?


Forget everything you know about 3e.

Specifically:
There are not actions vs. full-round actions (and no 5' steps!). There are instead:
Movement-not actually a distinct action, you just get movement during your round, which can be broken up before, between, and after your action(s).
Action-your main action:cast a spell, drink a potion, attack (including all of your normal attacks, if you get more than one)
Bonus Action-sorta like 3e swift actions. A secondary action you can take, but only if you have something to do in them: have a spell, class feature, or combat technique (such as your off-hand attack if you are fighting with two weapons) which specifically says you do so as your bonus action.
Reaction-a combination of 3e's immediate action and Attacks of Opportunity. Like Bonus Actions, they can only be filled with things which say you can do them as reaction actions (default: you can use it to make an Opportunity Attack when someone leaves your threatened space). Happens on other characters' turns (but you still only get one until you replenish on your turn).
Interact with an object - draw a weapon, open a door, etc. You get one per round.


Spells: If you are staring above 1st level, your ranger will get spells. Spells known is pretty self explanatory--that's how many spells you know. Spell slots are a little less. You get slots of various levels (level 1 only until 5th). Spells do not automatically improve (so range will not be 'X ft. + Y ft/caster level', and damage will not be 'caster level x 1DZ'). Instead, you can cast a lower level spell with a higher level slot, and this will increase the effectiveness of the spell.

Rests: 3e predominantly uses a 'X per day' mechanism, with the usual recharge mechanism being a night's rest. 5e terms the night's rest (which has never been explicitly at night) a "long rest" and also adds a "short rest" which only takes an hour. Different things recharge at different rests. Rangers predominantly recharge on long rests, except for things which everyone gets. One of these is the ability to "spend hit dice" -- you have one "hit dice" to spend for each level you have. Spending them doesn't lower your effective hit points or anything like that (they could have called them something like "hit dice derived healing slots" or the like, but too wordy I guess). During a short rest, you can spend 1+ of these to heal back [one hit dice (so d10 for rangers) + con bonus] hit points per HD spent. Long rests, OTOH, heal back all of your hit points, as well as half (roundup) your spent hit dice. Yes, natural healing got a huge boost (rejoice or complain, as you see fit).

Skills: You seem to have caught the basics of how skills work. Some nuance: if you choose a background which gives you a skill that is also a skill your class can choose, you can instead choose one of any skills on the skill list. So your ranger could (ex.) choose the sailor background, which gives them Athletics and Perception, and because ranger also has those on their list get two skill slots open which they could choose any skill. Another nuance: your DM has a lot more control over the DC to accomplish a task than they theoretically did in 3e (not that DMs ever really need permission to change a difficulty, I'm just saying that there's no big charts of DCs for every task in the book).

Advantage/Disadvantage: this has replaced big lists of bonuses or penalties (mostly). If you are in a good position to do X, then you get to roll twice, and take the better result. If you are in a bad position, roll twice and take the worse. In most instances, the math evens out to a little over +/-4.

Expectations: Numbers are lower. Your AC stays in the 15-20 range a lot longer. Your damage output stays lower as well (although I have a 5th level hunter ranger who can, if set up with a Hunter's Mark and two opponents standing next to each other, launch 4 attacks, each doing avg. 21 pts, which would be fairly good even in 3e, but that's a highly specific scenario). Your party will have casters who cannot do what could be done in 3e (lots of spells up at once, for example). OTOH, overall, there does not seem to be the same level of always feeling like you need to optimize perfectly just to stay relevant.

Some people call the game 'easier' than 3e or TSR-era D&D. I find that a strange notion (if things are too easy, one just ups the challenge), but there are definitely bits and bobs that support the concept. At medium-high levels, you have to screw up worse (or have the DM put you in a harder to escape situation) to have a character die. That does mean that some groups (DM+players) then press their luck, meaning that more FUBAR situations then are TPKs. Like all games, it takes practice.

Best of luck to you with this, hope you enjoy the game!

[Unoriginal]

Also note that some Feats give +1 to a stat, and that if you have an odd number stat it's enough to get the mod increase. So it's not necessarily either/or, you can get both the feat and the increase in some cases.

[GreyBlack]

Forget everything you know about 3e.

In my experience the people who have the hardest time learning 5e are 3e players.

As for Ranger - Hunter gives you +1d8 damage when fighting tough creatures. Beastmaster gives you a beast who can defend allies, get OAs, give disadvantage to ranged enemies, scout, guard areas, etc. etc.

As a 3.x/Pathfinder player, I can attest to this. While 5e appears like 3e superficially, it borrows A LOT more from 4e for combat and 2e for out of combat.

[KorvinStarmast]

For jdizzlean

The SRD (http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SRD-OGL_V5.1.pdf) and the Basic Rules (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf) are both free and work together.

Character creation default is roll 4d6droplowest six times. Place stats where you like.
Standard array has been addressed above
Point buy is explained here (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=10): You start with 27 points and various scores cost this much: 8 (0), 9 (1), 10(2), 11(3), 12(4), 13(5), 14(7), 15(9). Then add racial modifiers.

To address your questions:

there's no skill points at all? No, any character can try anything. See "using ability scores (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=60)" in the basic rules, chapter 7.

you just either get to add your proficiency bonus to an ability, or you don't? Correct. You always add or subtract the Dex/Str/Wis (etcetera) - ability score modifier (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=9).

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment? To get an unusual skill or ability. For a ranger, sharpshooter or Alert might be a great fit. At level 4, boosting Dexterity to 18 is probably a good call.

beast master looks pointless compared to hunter, at what point would beast master become relevant? Beast master is more fiddly than Hunter. It also depends on your group. A problem that has been acknowledged is that at higher levels, the companion dies very quickly.

anything else that might be of help?
1. As ad_hoc said: forget everything you know about 3e.

2. Here is the action economy, which has five elements (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=72).

Move(always have on during your turn)
Action(always have one during your turn)
Bonus Action (May or may not have one during your turn, check game / class / feat / spell feature)
Reaction (Usually happens on another character's turn: Opportunity Attack is a reaction).
Interact with an object (Discussed here (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=73)).

3. Hiding, Stealth, and Surprise: they work a little different than previous editions. Definitely read up on Hiding here.
(http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=63)

4. Advantage and Disadvantage: (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=5) read up on that, it's how this edition gives plusses and minuses based on situations or certain skills/features/spells.

5. Last piece of advice: talk to your DM. Work with your DM. Work out issues at the table and remember that the DM's ruling is final. 5e is trying to get away from the Rules Lawyer motif during play.

[Chronos]

Another point on action economy: Concentrating on a spell does not require any sort of action, and doesn't interfere with any other action... except for casting another concentration spell. On the other hand, a lot more spells nowadays require concentration than they used to. As a ranger, you'll probably most often be using your concentration on Hunter's Mark, but if you want to cast, say, Ensnaring Strike, or Spike Growth, or most other spells that have a duration, it'll end the Hunter's Mark.

And on feats, my experience is that for any given character, there's usually one feat you'll want to get ASAP, then focus on your main ability score until you get it to 20, and then either more feats or your secondary ability scores. For instance, on my ranger, I took Sharpshooter at level 4, because it did more for me than going from 16 to 18 Dex would. Now, at level 8, I have 18 Dex, and at 12, will have 20. Then at 16 and 19, I might take Lucky or Skulker or something, or I might increase my Con.

[dave2008]

Yes, no skill points

There are lost of reasons to take feats instead of ASIs; however, most people max their primary stat first. FYI, some people ban the variant human because it offers an extra feat at 1st level which they believe is to powerful. So there are differing opinions about the value of feats versus ASIs. And of course, like all editions - not all feats are made equal.

I never played one or had one in my games, but people routinely say the beastmaster is a poor choice. There has been much discussion about an official redesign, but there was only a small adjustment in the latest errata. However, if you do want to play one I suggest talking to your DM about some of the simple fixes you can find.

[Shuruke]

why would you ever take a feat instead of a stat adjustment?

beast master looks pointless compared to hunter, at what point would beast master become relevant?

anything else that might be of help?

So for taking feat over Asi is feats give a bit more specialization and with bounded accuracy you don't really need an 18 in primary stat till level 8 or 12

The +3 of a 16 will give a +5 and +6 to hit before and after level 5

Having the +4 or +5 mod is nice but isnt always necessary

Whereas if your wanting the flavor of magic intiate or the Intiative and ignoring suprise of alert feat you'd be willing to be a +1 lower.


As for beast master

Combat wise it won't be as good as Hunter. Hunters entire thing is finding big things or finding hordes of things etc and killing them. And being good at it.
You could take something like flying snake and get a flying scout (only 13 passive perception so not best)
But it'll have +8 to hit and 3 piercing damage plus 3d4 poison damage no save.
Giant poisonous is an option as well for damage pets

Tankier pets theirs giant crab

I would personally take something like the Hawk or Owl
Sure u can get them as a familiar
But beastmaster gets your prof in skills their proficient in.
So they'd have a +5 or +6 with advantage if using certain senses

Could also go panther gaining a companion with a +8 stealth. Since its turn is on your turn u could do a +6 to hit for bite (1d6+4 damage) and if u use pounce and enemy goes prone you get a +6 hit (1d4+4) attack


I would pick something with good perception bonus
This would allow you to send it out searching annnnd if u take magic intiate ritual caster you could send out 2 birds with the familiar using the help action on your companion.
Or a cat familiar and a panther with cat using help on panthers stealth etc.


Beast master is the scout utility ranger who can use pet in combat depending on pet but it won't keep up with the hunter ranger dpr wise. But adds lots of flavor and can make for a good scout buddy. Not reccemended to Multiclass much if you go beast master