Strongest level 20 wizard arcane tradition

[kenGarff]

From a mechanical standpoint, what are the most powerful level 20 arcane traditions?
For higher-level content, I realized so many badass monsters have legendary resistances and what not.
I was wondering if that would change your opinion on the strongest arcane traditions.
I would assume, even with a rather strict DM, illusionist is powerful with illusory reality to provide them gigantic walls, bridges, etc.
I would also assume diviner's portent would become less dominant though still strong.
How good would transmutation and conjuration be relative to other arcane traditions at level 20 since they are considered two of the lesser schools for normal plays?

[CTurbo]

Mechanically? I'd have to go with Abjuration. They would be nearly impossible to hurt much less kill.

Fun factor? Illusionist or Enchanter.

[hwem]

I don't have much experience in level 20 wizards. but from what I've seen around the web, illusionist becomes incredibly powerful with illusory reality. I also seen (on web) people mentioning diviner and enchanter not being as potent due to legendary resistance in higher-level encounter. Are legendary resistances really THAT common later on...?

side note: I, too, am curious as to how good transmutation/conjuration/abjuration are at very high level compared to other wizard subclasses.


Mechanically? I'd have to go with Abjuration. They would be nearly impossible to hurt much less kill.

Fun factor? Illusionist or Enchanter.

I guess legendary resistance and natural scaling of each arcane tradition makes abjurer "better" than diviner/illusionist/etc? How are transmuter, enchanter, and conjurer at really high level content? Do they scale well compared to diviner and such?

[Callak_Remier]

Mechanically? I'd have to go with Abjuration. They would be nearly impossible to hurt much less kill.

Fun factor? Illusionist or Enchanter.

I think your wrong on the Abjurer, you forget that Half of their 14th level keystone is up for sale, via Spell mantle or Robes of the ArchMage

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd be REALLY interested in a high level Diviner. It'd be able to create some ludicrous spell combos out of combat, for a nearly infinite ability to gather information. Things like



True Seeing (level 6) or Foresight (level 9) -> Level 5 spell slot
Legend Lore (Level 5) -> Level 4 spell slot
Arcane Eye (level 4) -> Level 3 spell slot
Tongues (Level 3) -> Level 2 spell slot
See Invisibility (Level 2) -> Level 1 spell slot
Alarm/Disguise Self/Jump/Longstrider/Shield (Level 1)



And that's not including Concentration spells (besides Arcane Eye). Technically, those can all be from a single spell slot. You're also incentivized to spam Legend Lore, since it provides more information based on what you already know about the target, and provides information about the target (making it a self-synergizing spell).

[MaxWilson]

From a mechanical standpoint, what are the most powerful level 20 arcane traditions?

Diviner is the best at building huge summoned armies, due to greater efficiency on Planar Binding via Portent. For similar reasons they are pretty good at killing other wizards, at least on a good day with nice Portent rolls.

Necromancer is the best at generating huge animated armies of super-wights via Create Undead + Mass Suggestion IX. (I.e. you don't recast Create Undead every day, you just create the super-powered wights and then control them with other spells + bribes and stuff.) Once you factor in Control Undead (Nightwalker or Mummy Lord or something) they are very competitive with Diviner; which one wins depends on how scarce money and gems are for the wizard in question.

Illusionist probably has the strongest abilities for actually accomplishing things without leaning on other summoned creatures.

Bladesinger probably has the most raw personal combat power once you factor in Shapechange. May I please Shapechange into an Adult Silver Shadow Dragon and then add +5 to my AC for AC 24 and to each of my melee attacks? Yes, I may. (Or a Pit Fiend, or Ancient White Dragon, or a Beholder, or whatever you like best.)

[Blood of Gaea]

Illusion: Everybody here is probably aware of why their battlefield control is so strong, you can morph your illusions and make things real. Among other things, this also makes you very spell slot efficient in combat.

Divination: Portent is just that good, reliable dice manipulation that you know ahead of times help a lot when it comes to making failed or successful saving through stick when it's needed goes a long way in the upper levels where players can be very weak to saving throws, and legendary saves (along with just high base saves) make the big bad guys very resilient to them. They are also decently efficient with their spell slots, as they can afford to use more divinations spells through the day.

Honorable Mention: Abjuration: If you find yourself in a campaign with many enemy casters, their 10th level ability is incredibly strong, they also get far more survivability than most other Wizards, and even the War Wizard with their great saving throw bonus needs to give something up to do it.

Necromancer can be very strong, but it's really variable, and a lot of tables don't like army summoners regardless, so I don't tend to list it.

[MaxWilson]

Honorable Mention: Abjuration: If you find yourself in a campaign with many enemy casters, their 10th level ability is incredibly strong, they also get far more survivability than most other Wizards, and even the War Wizard with their great saving throw bonus needs to give something up to do it.


As an aside: I have found that when I use MM monsters, the majority of the times when an Abjuror would be useful involve finishing off an enemy by preventing a Mind Flayer/Efreet/Githyanki Knight/whatever from Plane Shifting out when it is losing the fight. Plane Shift is DC 17 to Counterspell, and the consequences of letting a powerful and intelligent enemy escape are potentially severe, and yet they aren't so severe that you'd burn a 7th level spell slot Counterspelling it even if you had it (typically PCs do not have anywhere near 7th level slots when fighting these creatures). If they were using Plane Shift on a PC to send a PC to the Negative Energy Plane or something maybe you'd burn a 7th level slot though, if you had it.

Against most other spells that monsters have like Cone of Cold or even Hold Person/Monster, the risk is low enough that you can just use a regular Counterspell and heal the damage/Dispel Magic/break the enemy concentration afterward if the Counterspell fails, but Plane Shift is different.

There are other extremely debilitating conditions in the game like Mind Blast and Petrification, but Counterspell doesn't even work against most of them because they're not spells, so Abjurors are irrelevant.

On the other hand, most of the PCs I've seen in these fights aren't 10th level yet, so even an Abjuror wouldn't have any particular advantage yet. (Bardic Inspiration however is great, and so is Lucky.)

[Frozenstep]

Divination has a strong argument against a single powerful enemy. Get a simulacrum, it should have portent as well. That's 6 rolls you determine, which is especially nice against magic resistance (may depend on how your DM rules it, but the wording implies to me that you replace the entire rolling process with your portent dice roll). Of course, legendary resistance still trumps that, but then portent can help with non-saving throw spells.

Example, using portent to potentially win initiative, maybe maze a tough enemy and use prismatic wall where it'll reappear, using portent to foil enemy counter spells or bolster your own. Even with legendary resistances, a prismatic wall will tear through legendary resists, and then when they reappear, a prepared telekinesis by your or your simulacrum can keep them in it/force them into it again, using portent to win the telekinesis battle (it's a strength check, not a saving throw, so even if they have legendary resistances left, they can't use it against this).

[hwem]

I would've assumed legendary resistance takes a toll on divination enough so that it isn't the most dominant arcane tradition by level 20 in harder contents. I suppose I may have been wrong. Also, I suppose some of the generally worse traditions (ie. transmutation and conjuration) just don't scale well enough.