Melee Gish Sorc bloodline where are you XD

[Shuruke]

So I was looking through non MC options for melee gish and I noticed that
Wizard has bladesong
Bard has valor and blade
Warlock has pact of blade

Each of these 3 get extra attack at 6 (5 for warlock with thirsting blade.)

Cleric doesn't get extra attack in any of its choices but the melee ones get d8 damage once per turn at 8 and 14. With war getting bonus actions attacks equal to wis mod a Lrest

But it doesn't seem like sorcerer has one so what I'm wondering is.
Is this a balance thing?
Have they just not gotten to it?
I think they could easily bring in a bloodline for it. I really like the idea of maybe the rage mage prestige class being a bloodline.

What do you guys think is a melee gish sorc who gets extra attack at 6 something you'd like to see?

[nickl_2000]

I'm assuming that they haven't found one they are happy with yet. The stone sorcerer from UA was intended to be a sorcerer gish, and is very effective at it, but never made it into a full addition.

[PhantomSoul]

The version of the Favored Soul from the article on modifying classes (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes) got extra attack and melee proficiencies (but no other bonus to damage, so would probably fall behind pretty spectacularly if actually trying to be in melee).

[Shuruke]

I'm assuming that they haven't found one they are happy with yet. The stone sorcerer from UA was intended to be a sorcerer gish, and is very effective at it, but never made it into a full addition.

Yeah I had noticed that
Was really sad sea didn't make it wanted to play a sea witch

[Shuruke]

The version of the Favored Soul from the article on modifying classes (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes) got extra attack and melee proficiencies (but no other bonus to damage, so would probably fall behind pretty spectacularly if actually trying to be in melee).

Mhmm I read that while ago but I don't think that'd be accepted at most tables as is
And although it might not get damage bonuses I think the fact that they could holy weapon and spirit weapon would help

[Unoriginal]

The Giant Soul Sorcerer also had plenty of Gish potential.

[Grod_The_Giant]

In terms of official options, Dragon Sorcerer isn't bad, as long as you can find the proficiencies somewhere else (Drow works well). 13+Dex base AC and an effective d8 hit die are a useable base, and Green Flame Blade--especially when bolstered by Elemental Affinity and Quicken Spell-- lets you land solid melee hits.

In terms of unofficial options, there's the aforementioned Stone Sorcerer, and my book (https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/267038) has a Titan origin that's designed from the ground up as gish subclass-- armor and weapon proficiencies, a custom melee attack cantrip, pseudo extra attack, all that jazz.

[RSP]

A Sorc Gish is tough, due to abilities that can already duplicate stuff like Extra Attack. For instance, Quicken BB or GFB (as mentioned upthread) can decently duplicate Extra Attack, with added damage; and can be done at level 2. Likewise, DS Sorcs can use Spiritual Weapon as a second attack; since I started playing 5e, I’ve been convinced this spell is why no Clerics get Extra Attack.

The means to “Gish” are already available in the Sorc chassis; if one is so inclined to go that route. DS at level 6, with Extra Attack will outpace other melee classes, using 2 attacks and SW as a BA. They should be able to get enough castings to have it up most, if not all, combats through the adventuring day, with a few 1st level slots open for Shield and AE.

[DissidentWizard]

Ya I'd go with grod and grab the draconic sorcerer if you want the gish feel. It's not pure but one level of fighter for the style and armor/shield ain't bad either. I feel like extra attack is largely wasted on the bladesinger and blade thirsters since cantrips outclass them pretty quickly, especially when you're twinning booming blade and quickening green flame blade, again, with fire damage attribute riders. Bards don't get access to those cantrips on their own but they can pick it up easily enough with a feat or dip too. I'm sure in time they'll put out a real gish origin for them

[Willie the Duck]

So I was looking through non MC options for melee gish and I noticed that
Wizard has bladesong
Bard has valor and blade
Warlock has pact of blade

Each of these 3 get extra attack at 6 (5 for warlock with thirsting blade.)


The version of the Favored Soul from the article on modifying classes (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes) got extra attack and melee proficiencies (but no other bonus to damage, so would probably fall behind pretty spectacularly if actually trying to be in melee).

I strongly suspect that Favored Soul poisoned the well for extra-attack sorcerers. It was something of a 'what were you thinking?' moment, as it gave one archetype of sorcerers extra-attack, weapons and armor, additional spells known (reducing a known sorcerer weak spot), access to cleric spells (whose martial bent is one of the reasons why clerics aren't trusted with extra attack, plus raised the specter of 3e's CoDzilla), all with a class that had attribute synergy with Paladins. Suddenly every optimization guide was weighing whether one should make a normal paladin6/Sorcerer14 sorcadin for the save bonuses, or a paladin2/Favored Soul Sorcerer 18 for quicker smite slot availability and level 9 spells.

I suspect that the class would not be exceedingly op (although I do think it was a strictly-best sorcerer option) without the paladin, but paladin/sorcerer MC is not going away.

A new version of an extra-attack sorcerer (without the cleric spells and other whoopdedoo) probably would not be overpowered (even with paladin MC, as valor/swords bards are rarely considered such with them), but perhaps the ship has sailed.


I think they could easily bring in a bloodline for it. I really like the idea of maybe the rage mage prestige class being a bloodline.

I think a Rage Mage that doesn't intuitively work as a Barbarian MC would draw some ire. Although any barbarian-caster MC has issues, given that they need Str, Dex, and Con, people tend to be more okay with barbarian-Wisdom class synergy. Not sure why, other than 'not booksmart or personable, but cagy and willful' is a barbarian trope.


What do you guys think is a melee gish sorc who gets extra attack at 6 something you'd like to see?

I guess it'd by nice to have this option, if for no other reason to have something without the 'oh look, another power gamer and their sorcadin' baggage. I tend not to be overly married to the hard wizard/sorcerer delineation (or the delineation is not that important to me), so Bladesingers and EKs (and paladins, refluffed, to be honest) fill my gish needs.

[Shuruke]

That's all very true

Mainly for gish I play A.T or just multiclass I was just curious what hive mins thinks

And it does seem like its wanted/ could make for a fun bonus to material. Get the Sorcadin feel without having to do pally for those who don't really like MC