Sorcerer build questions. 2nd level spell(s) question.

[Cyclops08]

I just turned 3rd level. I get a 2nd level spell and possibly a trade out of a first level spell for another 2nd.

My first level spells are Chromatic Orb, Sleep, and Shield.
1) I have yet to use shield
2) Sleep spell saved the day in a terrific battle with Bullywugs and giant frogs. I used all my slots and my two sorcery points on sleep spells. I am hesitant to give it up.
3) so I am thinking of trading out my Shield spell...
4) This series of adventures deal with Jungle islands and may take us to 20

That said, we really could use Comprehend languages

for 2nd level I am thinking of taking, Web. Its a 20 foot cube. no real save and a 5 foot section burns for 2D4 making a fiery Orb more attractive.

Aganazar's Scorcher does the same damage as an orb spell just in a 5 foot wide line area of effect. I have yet to see enemies all line up like that.

we have two sneaky types, a monk and a rogue, who could benefit from an Invisibility spell.

Oh and I am thinking of using Empower and Twin Spells for my Meta Magic stuff.

[Aett_Thorn]

You may not have used Shield much yet, but you probably will as things get tougher. It’s a great spell to have as first-level damage spells become less useful. I would keep it.

On the flip side, Sleep is great at low levels, but doesn’t scale well as things get tougher. You’ll probably want to swap that out at some point, but maybe not yet.

As for what spells you should take, that will depend on if your party will need damage, control, or utility.

[sophontteks]

It'd be very unwise to swap out shield. Shield will always be good, actually it gets better because it remains a solid use of level 1 spells. Sleep on the other hand is already useless.

Sorcerers can't pick up utility spells. Things like comprehend languages and the like eat up precious spells known and you cant afford it

[Solusek]

If you think Comprehend Languages will be useful go ahead and take it. You don't HAVE to take a combat spell right away. Web and Suggestion would be my normal recommendations for level 2 sorc spells.

Along with Absorb Elements, Shield is the only other first level spell that I would probably keep on my Sorcerer all the way to level 20. Trading it out right now might be okay, but you may want to pick it back up again in a few levels. Being able to turn a close hit into a miss as a reaction is always good, and eventually you won't have anything better to do with those first level spell slots.

Level 3 is actually a good time to get rid of the Sleep spell, imo. The first two levels are when it's best.

So my suggestion for you would be trade out Sleep for Comprehend Languages, and pick up Web as your new spell. Pick up Suggestion as your new spell next level, and plan on getting Absorb Elements at some point in the future, maybe once you feel comfortable trading out Chromatic Orb.

Edit: Forgot about Metamagic talk. On my Sorcerer I took Careful Spell and Twin Spell as my first two, and regretted that choice as the campaign went on. On my next sorcerer I'm taking Empower and Subtle to start, and then either Twin or Heighten at level 10.

I underestimated how much Empower was necessary to make Sorcerer damage competitive with other classes output. I always felt heavily outclassed by the Warlock and the Fighter in the group, almost to the point of not wanting to bother with damage spells. Empower would have helped a lot.

Subtle Spell is great for social situations where you maybe don't want to get into a full on combat just yet, but do want to use spells without the antagonist realizing. I would have loved to have that available for things like casting suggestion or dispel magic or pre-buffing without giving away that we were about to start combat with monloguing villains. In any D&D game that is heavy on social interaction you will find a million good times to use Subtle Spell.

[Blood of Gaea]

As for your next spell, I'm also going to suggest Web, it's a solid control spell for this level.

I'll also agree that you could trade out shield right now without much danger, but I would swap it back in at level 6 or 7.

By level 4 Sleep will be dying off, so this is a good level to get rid of it.

At level 5 I would recommend swapping out Chromatic Orb, as it will now only be 1.5 average damage higher than a d10 cantrip, or .5 lower than a D12.

For Metamagic, I'm going to suggest Subtle, as it adds a lot of value in the right situation for only 1 point. Empowered is a decent choice, so go ahead and go with that.

[Stygofthedump]

I'm a fan of enlarge/reduce. it can be used to bypass doors as well as buff and debuff.
I took twin so that adds to utility.

Another good lv 2 spell if you don't think you will be against humanoids (and hence suggestion) is phantasmal force.
There are whole threads on this - many misinterpreted this spell however so check with DM.

so many good lv 2 spells

[Fryy]

I would NOT swap out Shield.
Sure, you can swap out a spell when you level up in Sorcerer, but you can only one spell per Sorcerer level up. So there is at least a slight opportunity cost.

Plus, at level 3 you have four lvl 1 and two lvl 2 slots... so you could afford to cast Shield when needed. It's a really useful spell as you could use it to effectively negate multiple attacks as a reaction which could prevent going to 0 hitpoints. So, I think you want it now anyway. I have found Shield extremely useful. That and Absorb Elements (also mentioned above).

What are your metamagics, what is your bloodline, and what role (buffer, debuffer, blaster, etc)?

If you like Sleep, then Suggestion (twinned) and Web (as also mentioned above) are good replacements.

With Sorcerer in particular you should really plan out in advance your spells at each higher level. Otherwise you may paint yourself into a corner. This ties back to my first paragraph on the opportunity cost due to the one swap per sorcerer level limit.

[Corran]

What's your sorcerous origin?
Aside for the monk and the rogue, are there any other PC's?



for 2nd level I am thinking of taking, Web. Its a 20 foot cube. no real save and a 5 foot section burns for 2D4 making a fiery Orb more attractive.

Not worth it IMO. Lifting the restrained condition for free off of someone who must also spend an action to attempt to get free of it at the gain of 2d4 extra damage is a poor trade. If you web people I think it's better to blast them with non-fire spells that target dex saves.

Having the twinned metamagic and a rogue ally, are very good reasons for taking haste once you hit level 5. Losing concentration on haste is a pain. I am saying this, cause I think it would profit you from planning only a little ahead so that you can have the ''right'' spells by level 5. For example, if we assume that haste and fireball are your level 5 picks (including retraining one spell), you are left with 4 known spells at that point, some of which might be good to invest in defense/avoidance so that you can both stay out of danger and better maintain concentration on haste. Ie, pick spells that will play well with the things your sorcerer is specialized to be most effective at. Meaning, that you should probably start thinking incuding spells in such a way, so that by level 5 you have access to mirror image and misty step (and possibly to shield; definitely to shield if you went with the draconic origin that provides you with a better base AC; if not dragon sorc, then I am tempted to suggest picking both shield and mage armor). This way, you build your character so that you can be good at the following two things. Blast with fireball or buff reliably with haste. It's good that these two options cover different situations (this is another conversation though), so that you will always have something useful to do.

Bottom line, plan a little ahead so you wont find yourself at some level a little ahead with many redundant options and without useful options.

[ImproperJustice]

If you can hold on until level 4, and have a wisdom or intelligence of 13, you could grab ritual caster.
It will give you a fantastic amount of ritual magic like comprehend languages, identify, etc... that can really aid the party and expand your versatility.

Cleric and Wizard both have great rituals available.
And worse case scenario, you could grab Bard rituals with your Charisma (although its kind of a consolation prize compared to the other two.)

[Makorel]

Phantasmal Force is a really good spell for those big boss fellas. A rare save in Intelligence to basically lock down a guy with a phantom warrior for up to 10 turns. Even if you fumble and make a less attractive target and the big bad is distracted for 1 or 2 turns it's still worth it. If you're planning on taking twin then you can lock down two big guys.

Web is good for the time you get it, it's a Dex save and I like having spells that deal with different saves. Also pairs well with Phantasmal Force by taking care of the groups that PF can't handle. Honestly you probably don't need this if you have Sleep though.