Druid Feat/Stat Level 4 Questions

[Lokrom]

Hey everyone!

I am looking for some advice in regards to weather I should take a feat or stats when I level.

I am very new to DnD and my party I are about to hit level 4. I play a Half-Elf Druid. The rest of my party consists of a Goliath Fighter, Dragonborn Sorcerer, Arokocra Paladin, Halfling Rogue, and Wood Elf Ranger.
I have selected the Moon Druid Circle and have enjoyed my hybrid transforming role. I find myself turning into a Brown Bear, Giant Hyena, or a Giant Spider based on our current situation. My current role is more of a hybrid/utility damage dealer (Wild Shape into animal form) and one of two the primary healers in our group along side our Paladin. Neither Paladin or I have fully committed to being the groups primary healer and enjoy splitting the role.

My stats are as follows (As of level 3).
Str - 8
Dex - 12
Const - 16
Intel - 14
Wis - 17
Char - 14
HP - 26
AC - 14

We will be leveling up mid way through our next session and I am looking for advice!!!

Based on previous experience of other Druid players...

Should I take a stat improvement? If so, which would you recommend?
Should I take a feat? If so which would you recommend?
And any major suggestions of useful cantrips, level 1 and level 2 spells and why?

Thank you so much in advance!

[Mandarin]

Hello!

First, I would say your stat allocation was a little off for optimization unless you wanted to play an intellectual druid, I would have made it.

Str - 8
Dex - 16
Const - 14
Intel - 12
Wis - 17
Char - 14

Reason being is Dex is great for armor, stealth, etc... I know I know... right now you are using forms... but later on you will find yourself out of form more and more often as you find your summon spells are actually much more powerful than your forms.


Now on to your question.... you have some options.

Add to Dex- Always a good choice to raise your armor and not have to make as many concentration checks.

Warcaster Feat- not super useful now and can probably wait till 8, but later on is invaluable.

Mobile- If you are having a blast zooming around tanking stuff can make forms a bit more flexible.

Magic initiate- Find Familiar with an owl granting the help action can ensure you make those bites connect and also makes a great scout... also minor illusion cantrip and prestidigitation are amazing.

No real wrong answer here, but more what you enjoy in your playstyle. Just know later on your forms will feel weaker, while your spellcasting will continue to grow in strength... forms will always have their use (Great HP sponge and niche utility roles and scouting) but the damage will seem less impactful.

[MinimanMidget]

The Observant feat will boost your Wis to 18 while making you a walking radar station (assuming you're proficient in Perception). Resilient (Con) or War Caster will help you cast a concentration spell then maintain it while you're fighting in a Wild Shape form.

[RogueJK]

I'd suggest going with something that gives you +1 to WIS, to round out your odd WIS score and bump your WIS modifier up to +4, with an increase in WIS saving throw, WIS skills, spell DC, and number of spells prepared.



A half-feat that boosts WIS will get you +1 to everything WIS-related while also getting the side benefits of the feat. Options are:

Elven Accuracy - Potentially useful, although in a number of your Wildshape forms you'll be using STR to attack, and it doesn't apply on STR-based attacks.

Observant - Nice boost to your already high Perception, as well as your Passive Investigation



You could also do +1 WIS and +1 to another stat, to set yourself up for a different half-feat at Level 8. I'd suggest +1 WIS and +1 CON, and then plan on taking take Resilient CON at 8th, which will ensure that your Concentration is rarely broken. Or if you want some social skills to take advantage of your moderate CHA, you could do +1 WIS and +1 CHA, and then take the UA Everybody's Friend feat at 8th.

Or, you do this in reverse order, taking something like Resilient CON or Everybody's Friend now and planning for the +1 WIS and +1 CON/CHA at 8th. You'll just get the benefit of the feat now, with the stat bump being delayed. Either way, I'd still suggest Resilient CON.

[DrKerosene]

The Observant feat will boost your Wis to 18 while making you a walking radar station (assuming you're proficient in Perception). Resilient (Con) or War Caster will help you cast a concentration spell then maintain it while you're fighting in a Wild Shape form.

I would have recommended all of this.

However, is it legal to take Resilient (Wis) and have the saving throw proficiency moved to Constitution, since you can normally choose a different thing if you’d get redundant proficiencies.

[nickl_2000]

I would have recommended all of this.

However, is it legal to take Resilient (Wis) and have the saving throw proficiency moved to Constitution, since you can normally choose a different thing if you’d get redundant proficiencies.

Is it really? I thought that was only for skills. Do you mind giving me a location on that rule?

[DrKerosene]

Is it really? I thought that was only for skills. Do you mind giving me a location on that rule?

I doubt you could do so in an Adventurers League game. I failed to end my comment with a question mark. I was just providing a suggestion that a DM might allow.

[sophontteks]

I would have recommended all of this.

However, is it legal to take Resilient (Wis) and have the saving throw proficiency moved to Constitution, since you can normally choose a different thing if you’d get redundant proficiencies.
It s not legal. You normally don't get to choose a different thing when you gain something redundant. The exception is gaining background skills.

[RogueJK]

It s not legal. You normally don't get to choose a different thing when you gain something redundant. The exception is gaining background skills.

There are a few other situations that allow swapping if you already have something. For example, the first one that comes to mind is the Illusionist Wizard, which gains the Minor Illusion cantrip at Level 2, but if you already have Minor Illusion, you can pick any other cantrip.

But yeah, I can't see any but the most overly permissive DMs allowing that "Resilient WIS for +1 WIS and CON proficiency" substitution.

[djreynolds]

In my humbles experience, you want both wisdom and constitution saving throw proficiency.

The only exception is a paladin with a high charisma and decent constitution, past 6th level

So you are going to need both. The enemy is going to run away and get their casters to battle you

So I would take resilient con at 4th, your con score is now 17. This is important to maintain concentration on previously caster spells such as flaming sphere, moon beam, even barkskin.

And then at 8th level, even them out. 18 con and 18 wisdom

Observant is a good feat and very useful, and moon druids can become a mouse do a lot of exploring.. but the rogue and ranger can do this.

So 4th level, either +1 to wisdom and + 1 to con...... or resilient con

8th level, resilient con.......... or +1 to wis and +1 to con

Good luck

[dejarnjc]

Should I take a stat improvement? If so, which would you recommend?
Should I take a feat? If so which would you recommend?
And any major suggestions of useful cantrips, level 1 and level 2 spells and why?

Thank you so much in advance!

+! WIS improvement via a half-feat would be good but isn't vital since your stats are generally pretty strong. Elven accuracy could be fun if you have an ally that provides you advantage a lot or if you like using spells like faerie fire.

If you take a non stat boosting feat AND you want to optimize I'd recommend warcaster, or resilient CON. I've been playing a moon druid weekly for almost 3.5 years now and the number of concentration saves I have to make is unreal. I make more concentration saves than any other roll by a huge degree.

If you want to take a non stat boosting feat and don't care about optimization, I think prodigy and skilled are both very cool feats to enhance out of combat scenarios.



As far as cantrips go, I have a flexible DM that let me switch some cantrips around at level 4 since i found some of my original picks under whelming (druidcraft and frostbite in particular).
Create bonfire is a trap, don't get it. You already have too many concentration spells.
Thornwhip is fantastic and fun. Highly recommend.
Guidance is useful but starts to feel kinda cheesy after a while. Thematically it just feels better and less cheesy on a cleric.
Magic stone is a trap, it won't scale.
Shillelagh is a trap, it won't scale.
Primal savagery is decent.
Produce flame is your best ranged cantrip though the range is kinda pathetic.

[DrKerosene]

...Create bonfire is a trap, don't get it. You already have too many concentration spells.
Thornwhip is fantastic and fun. Highly recommend.
Guidance is useful but starts to feel kinda cheesy after a while. Thematically it just feels better and less cheesy on a cleric.
Magic stone is a trap, it won't scale.
Shillelagh is a trap, it won't scale.
Primal savagery is decent.
Produce flame is your best ranged cantrip though the range is kinda pathetic.

-I haven’t used Create Bonfire, but it only seems good if your groups is planning to use combos with the Sentinel feat.
-Thorn Whip has never hit when I’ve used it. Keylith on Critical Role has not made it seem any good either. I think a Warlock with that Hadar invocation might be better if your group wants forced movement.
-Magic Stone provides magic damage for resistance/immunity, and you can give rocks to your allies to throw. Being able to share magic damage with allies is why I consider this more useful than Produce Flame, Thorn Whip, or Shillelagh.
-I think Shillelagh is for weird Fighter type builds, or roleplaying.
-I didn’t want to use Primal Savagery when I was a low level Moon Druid, so I can’t say if it seems any more useful than Poison Spray.

I like the roleplay uses of Druidcraft, a sack full of mustard seeds is a cheap way to feed the Party, but casting Goodberry right before a long rest achieves the same result.

[Citan]

Hey everyone!

I am looking for some advice in regards to weather I should take a feat or stats when I level.

I am very new to DnD and my party I are about to hit level 4. I play a Half-Elf Druid. The rest of my party consists of a Goliath Fighter, Dragonborn Sorcerer, Arokocra Paladin, Halfling Rogue, and Wood Elf Ranger.
I have selected the Moon Druid Circle and have enjoyed my hybrid transforming role. I find myself turning into a Brown Bear, Giant Hyena, or a Giant Spider based on our current situation. My current role is more of a hybrid/utility damage dealer (Wild Shape into animal form) and one of two the primary healers in our group along side our Paladin. Neither Paladin or I have fully committed to being the groups primary healer and enjoy splitting the role.

My stats are as follows (As of level 3).
Str - 8
Dex - 12
Const - 16
Intel - 14
Wis - 17
Char - 14
HP - 26
AC - 14

We will be leveling up mid way through our next session and I am looking for advice!!!

Based on previous experience of other Druid players...

Should I take a stat improvement? If so, which would you recommend?
Should I take a feat? If so which would you recommend?
And any major suggestions of useful cantrips, level 1 and level 2 spells and why?

Thank you so much in advance!
Hi!

I'd suggest going with something that gives you +1 to WIS, to round out your odd WIS score and bump your WIS modifier up to +4, with an increase in WIS saving throw, WIS skills, spell DC, and number of spells prepared.



A half-feat that boosts WIS will get you +1 to everything WIS-related while also getting the side benefits of the feat. Options are:

Elven Accuracy - Potentially useful, although in a number of your Wildshape forms you'll be using STR to attack, and it doesn't apply on STR-based attacks.

Observant - Nice boost to your already high Perception, as well as your Passive Investigation



You could also do +1 WIS and +1 to another stat, to set yourself up for a different half-feat at Level 8. I'd suggest +1 WIS and +1 CON, and then plan on taking take Resilient CON at 8th, which will ensure that your Concentration is rarely broken. Or if you want some social skills to take advantage of your moderate CHA, you could do +1 WIS and +1 CHA, and then take the UA Everybody's Friend feat at 8th.

Or, you do this in reverse order, taking something like Resilient CON or Everybody's Friend now and planning for the +1 WIS and +1 CON/CHA at 8th. You'll just get the benefit of the feat now, with the stat bump being delayed. Either way, I'd still suggest Resilient CON.
This overall. For full list of interesting options...

1. Observant (immediate benefit).
2. +1 WIS, +1 CON (and Resilient: CON at level 8).
3. Warcaster (immediate benefit for concentration, but kinda trappy option since as a Druid -Moon or otherwise- you won't get to cast spells in beast form until level 18 so it's an awfully long-term investment).
4. Prodigy(if you are the scout -Perception- or spy -Stealth- or melee helper -Athletics- Expertise is always great).
5. Mobile (if you act as a frontliner and finds yourself suffering a bit too many OA).
6. Sentinel (to help keep one enemy in place).
7. Magic Initiate: Wizard (utility cantrips + Mage Armor for an average +2 AC boost in beast form).

[dejarnjc]

-I haven’t used Create Bonfire, but it only seems good if your groups is planning to use combos with the Sentinel feat.
-Thorn Whip has never hit when I’ve used it. Keylith on Critical Role has not made it seem any good either. I think a Warlock with that Hadar invocation might be better if your group wants forced movement.
-Magic Stone provides magic damage for resistance/immunity, and you can give rocks to your allies to throw. Being able to share magic damage with allies is why I consider this more useful than Produce Flame, Thorn Whip, or Shillelagh.
-I think Shillelagh is for weird Fighter type builds, or roleplaying.
-I didn’t want to use Primal Savagery when I was a low level Moon Druid, so I can’t say if it seems any more useful than Poison Spray.

I like the roleplay uses of Druidcraft, a sack full of mustard seeds is a cheap way to feed the Party, but casting Goodberry right before a long rest achieves the same result.

- Create Bonfire is OK levels 1-4 but post level 5 a druid will generally find themselves concentrating on a more useful spell during combat.
- Thorn whip is a cantrip that provides forced movement. It's not exceptionally powerful but it's useful and fun in a pinch. Additionally it's a melee spell attack with a 30ft range, lots of versatility. Also let's be real here, (1) moon druids use their cantrips in combat MUCH less than other full casters, (2) Keylith is roleplayed well but is played very non-optimally.
- Sure Magic Stone is great at overcoming resistances but so are magic weapons, normal spells, and a moon druid's sixth level feature. It doesn't scale at all. It MIGHT be useful post level 4 if the party rogue is without a magic weapon but that's probably it.
- Agreed about Shillelagh. I also think it's just a hold over from previous editions where melee druids were a thing.
- Druidcraft always disappoints me. I want to like it but it just does so little compared to actually cool roleplay cantrips like prestidigitation, minor illusion, mage hand etc.

[RogueJK]

-I didn’t want to use Primal Savagery when I was a low level Moon Druid, so I can’t say if it seems any more useful than Poison Spray.

It's more useful than Poison Spray.

Poison Spray has a very short range of only 10 feet. And it targets CON, a save that a large number of enemies are good at. (A drawback to a number of the Druid's damage cantrips - Frostbite, Infestation, Poison Spray, and Thunderclap.) It also does Poison damage, the most common enemy resistance/immunity by far. The large damage die makes it appealing at first glance, but it's not a good choice.

Primal Savagery is currently the best option for a Druid melee cantrip, for those characters who want to be able to make WIS-based melee attacks. It outdamages Shillelagh at Levels 5-20, and doesn't require a Bonus Action to activate. (Shillelagh does have a few specific builds where it's a better option, like those that take the Polearm Master feat or otherwise get extra/bonus attacks.) Primal Savagery outdamages a single attack with a traditional weapon, and your attack bonus will be better with Primal Savagery since a Druid's WIS will almost certainly be higher than their STR/DEX. And Primal Savagery does Acid damage, which is a less common elemental resistance/immunity.

However, most Druids avoid melee, so Primal Savagery is not a "must have" cantrip for most Druids. But it's a better choice than a number of other Druid cantrips (like the aforementioned Poison Spray or Shillelagh, or Create Bonfire), and it is a good choice for non-Moon Druids who want a good melee option, or for Moon Druids as a backup melee option for times when they can't or don't want to Wildshape. Plus it doesn't require using a weapon at all, for those who are worried about encumbrance, or who want to play a more "naturalistic/feral Druid" who doesn't use weapons and just attacks with their bare hands and teeth.

[NaughtyTiger]

I love Mobile in wildshape.
Giant Octopus comes online at level 4, and 20ft movement (bonus action dash leaves ink on the ground if your DM is cool like that) makes a mean grappler
many wildshape critters get multiattack, and Mobiles prevents AoO from the horde you attacked and are running from

Half elf is ripe for elven accuracy. and you get the +1 wis. giant poisonous snake (lvl 4) and air elemental (you will eventually get) is Dex based

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I love Mobile in wildshape.
Giant Octopus comes online at level 4, and 20ft movement (bonus action dash leaves ink on the ground if your DM is cool like that) makes a mean grappler.

Definitely check with your DM about Octopus shenanigans first, though. Since an Octopus can only breathe underwater, mine ruled that I can turn into one on land, but I automatically start suffocating since I wasn't able to take a "breath" of water, which means I only have the initial transform round, plus one more round before I immediately fall to 0 hit points and break the wild shape.

Might be worth carrying around a portable water source.

[NaughtyTiger]

Definitely check with your DM about Octopus shenanigans first, though. Since an Octopus can only breathe underwater, mine ruled that I can turn into one on land, but I automatically start suffocating since I wasn't able to take a "breath" of water, which means I only have the initial transform round, plus one more round before I immediately fall to 0 hit points and break the wild shape.

Might be worth carrying around a portable water source.

the bit about Dashing is shady as heck, DMs allow it cuz it's funny.

but per the stat block, they have the ability to hold their breath for 1 hour... less shady, but still reasonable to dislike it.

on the other hand, my other druid (retired) encountered a roctopus from Out of the Abyss, and is a much more awesome choice.

[Citan]

Definitely check with your DM about Octopus shenanigans first, though. Since an Octopus can only breathe underwater, mine ruled that I can turn into one on land, but I automatically start suffocating since I wasn't able to take a "breath" of water, which means I only have the initial transform round, plus one more round before I immediately fall to 0 hit points and break the wild shape.

Might be worth carrying around a portable water source.
Also, you'd need to have seen Giant Octopus in the first place. You'd require a (imo) *very* nice DM to admit you've seen it "from background" when starting the adventure... And otherwise it's basically up to DM to allow it or not by giving you, or not, the chance to witness existence of creature from your own eyes.

[Man_Over_Game]

Also, you'd need to have seen Giant Octopus in the first place. You'd require a (imo) *very* nice DM to admit you've seen it "from background" when starting the adventure... And otherwise it's basically up to DM to allow it or not by giving you, or not, the chance to witness existence of creature from your own eyes.

*Goes to the zoo*

Druid: "Yes. Now I have ultimate POWAAAAAAH!!!"

[NaughtyTiger]

Also, you'd need to have seen Giant Octopus in the first place. You'd require a (imo) *very* nice DM to admit you've seen it "from background" when starting the adventure... And otherwise it's basically up to DM to allow it or not by giving you, or not, the chance to witness existence of creature from your own eyes.

Agreed, it takes a very nice DM to let a druid see any CR1+ beast. I mean, if your moon druid is level 4, there is no reason a DM should make sure you get to see a CR1 beast.
he should hamper the druid archetype until level 7...

[Citan]

*Goes to the zoo*

Druid: "Yes. Now I have ultimate POWAAAAAAH!!!"
XD

Agreed, it takes a very nice DM to let a druid see any CR1+ beast. I mean, if your moon druid is level 4, there is no reason a DM should make sure you get to see a CR1 beast.
he should hamper the druid archetype until level 7...
Hmm. That was not really my view on it.
I do not think the DM should be enticed to actively limit the forms a Druid can witness for "power-balance" reasons.

It's rather just, in my eyes, a matter of coherence. If players had to play a sea-based campaign, there could be a fat chance for a Druid to actually see one (random encounter, or Druid using Water Breathing to actively search for it).
For regular campaigns? I just don't see happening.
Exactly like Dinosaurs should just not exist in most campaigns, so tough luck Wild Shaping into them.

But things like Giant Boar or Giant Elk seem much more manageable to me to "implement" unless campaign revolve around desert-like environments. It would for example be easy enough to make it so that those creatures are guardians of a forest (confer Mononoke Hime ;)).

---> For me the only cursor to follow is "credibility of beast's existence in the context of the world". :)