Advice On Dealing With A Counterspelling Homebrew

[ISAS]

Okay so a game I'm in has a character whose homebrewed and has counterspell available to them as a cantrip, along with eldritch blast. He's pretty cast-happy with the counterspell in most situations, especially since it allows him to piss off others in his party (Mostly consisting of arcane/divine magic wilders) by having an attitude and then counterpselling any attack used against him and return the strike with his EB without fear of preprisal since he can undo any spell at will.

I've already thought about trying to cast from outside the effective range of his counterspell, but the issue is we're typically indoors when all the interparty hostilities and blows against each other are thrown, so I'm well within his counter range.

I've tried devising ways and means of dealing with this character, who I have a friendly rivlary with, but at low level and as a warlock, my options are limited and easily countered by the guys frequent counterspelling, and the methods I have considered are overkill for a non-actual enemy.

Anyone got any advise or recommendations on how to beat this that he can't easily counteract?

[Kane0]

Spells that require dispels instead of counterspellls?
Invocations and other not-actually-spells?
Casting outside of range, after reaction has been used, cannot he seen, etc
Potentially, counterspell as a cantrip would only auto-counter cantrips no? Anything higher than that would need a slot or check to succeed.

[1Pirate]

Um, what DM allowed Counterspell to be used as a cantrip? If they're willing to break the game with that, maybe they'll let you have an invocation where you get to use Subtle Spell metamagic at will.

[sophontteks]

Ask the dm to give you subtle spell...as a cantrip.

[Mellack]

I'm with the others. If the DM is giving a 3rd level spell as a cantrip, then it would be fair for them to give you an invocation like subtle spell for free to all your spells.

Or if they don't like that, ask for the same thing. Counterspell his counterspell. Then you are back to a level playing field.

[thrdeye]

+1 to requesting something equally broken for your own character. Also, it seems he's upset multiple party members while he can only counterspell once per round. Normally I'd say ganging up on the guy is poor form but if he's going to use something that grossly overpowered against a party member I don't feel bad for him.

I'm assuming the players, as opposed to the characters, are okay with the pvp and you're just looking for pointers. If not, it needs to be handled out of character.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Mage Slayer feat?

[Zhorn]

"Violence is never the answer. But sometimes you deal with situations where violence is the only answer"

Broken ability and the player is using it to lord superiority over the party. Usually I'd look for peaceful resolutions to party conflicts, but in this case I agree with the gang-up and eliminate solution. Introducing more broken mechanics is just going to promote an arms race with players requesting counters to counters to counters.

Counterspell as a cantrip is the root cause. If the DM isn't willing to nerf that to normal (or at-least to a limited resource), then eliminating the character has my vote. :smallannoyed:

There are very few ways to play d&d 'wrong'. But if someone's main source of enjoyment is antagonistically at the expense of others, then that's certainly crossing a line.

[Unoriginal]

Just have your PC grab a chair and beat the counterspeller with it.

That or any other weapon.

Don't forget to say "Counterspell THIS!" as you bash him.

More seriously, you should talk with your DM and probably the player as well. Why is this guy the only one with a OP homebrew?

[Yunru]

Remember, he can only counterspell one spell per round, and only if he sees you cast it.

Solution: Wear a cardboard box.

[Jcp1195]

Since your DM is comfortable with Homebrew, it could be easy to work with him to find some ways around it since it would probably become annoying to him as well when planning caster combats, unless he were to send a whole coven of Hags after you at once.

In one of my previous games, our Rock Gnome Rogue created what we wound up calling the “Nope Button.” He took an Antimagic Gem from a Dracolich serving our DM’s Goddess of Antimagic, and modified it so that as a reaction he could tap it and cause a 6 second, 600ft Antimagic Sphere centered on him.

Now something like this might be a bit extreme, especially as it seems you might be a bit lower leveled and a caster, but you could always ask for some kind of Subtle Spell ability like the others recomended, or maybe reccomend that your DM allow you to take an Invocation that would make your spells immune to Counterspell?

Your DM should be pretty helpful with helping you find ways around this, especially if it’s causing inter-party strife.

Edit: Alternatively... If you HAVE to cut off the head of a Hydra, it’s best to do it while it’s unable to regenerate. By that I mean stab, crush, gut, burn, whatever you have to do, in his sleep if necessary.

Discuss it with your DM and other Party-mates. If you can’t find any other way peacefully to deal with him, then do what needs to be done. But try to Make it necessary, so you don’t go Chaotic Evil and decide to burn the town to cinders while you’re at it.

[dave2008]

Okay so a game I'm in has a character whose homebrewed and has counterspell available to them as a cantrip, along with eldritch blast. He's pretty cast-happy with the counterspell in most situations, especially since it allows him to piss off others in his party (Mostly consisting of arcane/divine magic wilders) by having an attitude and then counterpselling any attack used against him and return the strike with his EB without fear of preprisal since he can undo any spell at will.

I've already thought about trying to cast from outside the effective range of his counterspell, but the issue is we're typically indoors when all the interparty hostilities and blows against each other are thrown, so I'm well within his counter range.

I've tried devising ways and means of dealing with this character, who I have a friendly rivlary with, but at low level and as a warlock, my options are limited and easily countered by the guys frequent counterspelling, and the methods I have considered are overkill for a non-actual enemy.

Anyone got any advise or recommendations on how to beat this that he can't easily counteract?

First, I don't think counterspell should be an at-will option. That is, IMO, broken. I would have the player change that ability for another cantrip. I can do that with my group, but I am guessing that is not an option for your group. So...

The character only gets one reaction per round, so cast two spells at him/her. The second one is going to be a threat.

[ISAS]

Spells that require dispels instead of counterspellls?
Invocations and other not-actually-spells?
Casting outside of range, after reaction has been used, cannot he seen, etc
Potentially, counterspell as a cantrip would only auto-counter cantrips no? Anything higher than that would need a slot or check to succeed.

I'd considered the range one already, but our interparty conflicts and PVP always seem to occur in enclosed quarters so its difficult to achieve.

I'll certainly discuss with the DM what constitutes a Spell/Invocation since there IS something of a difference right enough.


Um, what DM allowed Counterspell to be used as a cantrip? If they're willing to break the game with that, maybe they'll let you have an invocation where you get to use Subtle Spell metamagic at will.

One whose banging the player in question? Nuff said. Though in fairness the DM does allow the rest of us players access to a lot of odds and ends and interesting character-related resources and gameplay if its within each individuals respective backstory/endgoals.


I'm with the others. If the DM is giving a 3rd level spell as a cantrip, then it would be fair for them to give you an invocation like subtle spell for free to all your spells.

Or if they don't like that, ask for the same thing. Counterspell his counterspell. Then you are back to a level playing field.

I'll certainly bring it up with the DM, and I personally don't like the idea of asking for the same thing because I prefer to play by the RAW etc and giving a character a spell, rescaled or anything else, that is outside of its proper level isn't my personal playstyle even though I don't mind others who play by the RAF.


+1 to requesting something equally broken for your own character. Also, it seems he's upset multiple party members while he can only counterspell once per round. Normally I'd say ganging up on the guy is poor form but if he's going to use something that grossly overpowered against a party member I don't feel bad for him.

I'm assuming the players, as opposed to the characters, are okay with the pvp and you're just looking for pointers. If not, it needs to be handled out of character.

Yeah, we dont mind the PVP because it fits each of our respective characters alignments, outlooks and backgrounds without any issue. It's use in-combat against monsters etc is limited for the most part, but outside of that, between the players, there's no such restriction in place regarding cantrips. So finding an in-character solution would be preferable to having a sitdown with the DM and the Player.


"Violence is never the answer. But sometimes you deal with situations where violence is the only answer"

Broken ability and the player is using it to lord superiority over the party. Usually I'd look for peaceful resolutions to party conflicts, but in this case I agree with the gang-up and eliminate solution. Introducing more broken mechanics is just going to promote an arms race with players requesting counters to counters to counters.

Counterspell as a cantrip is the root cause. If the DM isn't willing to nerf that to normal (or at-least to a limited resource), then eliminating the character has my vote. :smallannoyed:

There are very few ways to play d&d 'wrong'. But if someone's main source of enjoyment is antagonistically at the expense of others, then that's certainly crossing a line.

It's only broken really in the sense it's messing up the PVP aspect of things since the DM handles it differently than in PVM where it's limited in its use. The DM rules cantrips in our game as usable at any time outside of PVM so the arcanists are constantly using mage hand, prestidigitation, mending etc etc for flavour purposes, but when you throw in a counterspell as a cantrip you effectively neuter all cantrips that might be used against someone or for fun during social interactions, which as you say, can sap someone's main source of enjoyment in the game.


Just have your PC grab a chair and beat the counterspeller with it.

That or any other weapon.

Don't forget to say "Counterspell THIS!" as you bash him.

More seriously, you should talk with your DM and probably the player as well. Why is this guy the only one with a OP homebrew?

Heh, I like that, smashing him with something he cant easily counter. And in answer to the question, see my reply to 1Pirate above.


Remember, he can only counterspell one spell per round, and only if he sees you cast it.

Solution: Wear a cardboard box.

Heh, might be an idea to go all MGS on him.


Since your DM is comfortable with Homebrew, it could be easy to work with him to find some ways around it since it would probably become annoying to him as well when planning caster combats, unless he were to send a whole coven of Hags after you at once.

In one of my previous games, our Rock Gnome Rogue created what we wound up calling the “Nope Button.” He took an Antimagic Gem from a Dracolich serving our DM’s Goddess of Antimagic, and modified it so that as a reaction he could tap it and cause a 6 second, 600ft Antimagic Sphere centered on him.

Now something like this might be a bit extreme, especially as it seems you might be a bit lower leveled and a caster, but you could always ask for some kind of Subtle Spell ability like the others recomended, or maybe reccomend that your DM allow you to take an Invocation that would make your spells immune to Counterspell?

Your DM should be pretty helpful with helping you find ways around this, especially if it’s causing inter-party strife.

Edit: Alternatively... If you HAVE to cut off the head of a Hydra, it’s best to do it while it’s unable to regenerate. By that I mean stab, crush, gut, burn, whatever you have to do, in his sleep if necessary.

Discuss it with your DM and other Party-mates. If you can’t find any other way peacefully to deal with him, then do what needs to be done. But try to Make it necessary, so you don’t go Chaotic Evil and decide to burn the town to cinders while you’re at it.

The DM is ok with them, and has actually allowed one another of the players to retire and bring in a homebrew themselves, but I haven't seen it in action yet so can't tell it it'll be OP or viable as a counter to the counterspell spammer so its a wait and see period.

And I like the 'Nope Button' approach, I'll have to see if I can develop something like that as a counter, or talk the DM into allowing a few of us to develop a spell that can't be so easily countered.


Okay, thanks all who've replied so far, you've all given me a lot to think about and consider.

[Unoriginal]

You could also hire a bunch of thugs.

[Yunru]

You could also hire a bunch of thugs.Hired goons?

[Lunali]

Don't declare what spell you're casting until after he's declared if he's countering it.

[MThurston]

Two spell casters is all you need.

Take a piece if paper and say I am casting a spell.

He will say I am countering it.

You flip over your spell and it's a cantrip.

The second spell user casts fireball and he has no defense to stop it.

If he doesn't counter then first spell, then the second mage does the paper trick and it's a cantrip.

He will always counter a cantrip.

Even if the first person chooses a non cantrip spell, the second one hammers him with a damage spell.

[Unoriginal]

Hired goons?

Indeed, indeed.

[MrStabby]

Wait till towards the end of a won combat on a turn when he has used his reaction. Hit him with the biggest highest level piece of nastyness you have in your arsenal.

Push him in the water. Hard to provide the verbal components if you cant breath.

In a fight where he thinks you are on his side cast a spell, let him chose not to counter it then declare him as the target.

Remember that if you are in his face then their eldritch blast will have disadvantage. With a decent enough armour class you could be well suited to meleeing them down.

[1Pirate]

One whose banging the player in question? Nuff said.

Well, that's easy enough to deal with. You seduce the DM yourself. Start simple, like with a solo one-shot they've wanted to do but the other player wasn't interested in. Then ask to do another, and be down for whatever they propose.

Once they've realized you can give them something the other player can't, you can start to take it to the next level. Decide you want to start cosplaying as your characters during these one-shots and only play characters that wear attractive clothing. Sit just a little bit closer to them with every session. Occasionally "accidentally" touch the DM while acting out some of your character's more gentle or sensual gestures. You can gauge how you're doing based on NPC reactions.

Let them know afterward how much you're enjoying the new format with them(don't do it via text though, there's a chance the other player might see it and get wise to what you're doing).

[thrdeye]

It's only broken really in the sense it's messing up the PVP aspect of things since the DM handles it differently than in PVM where it's limited in its use. The DM rules cantrips in our game as usable at any time outside of PVM so the arcanists are constantly using mage hand, prestidigitation, mending etc etc for flavour purposes, but when you throw in a counterspell as a cantrip you effectively neuter all cantrips that might be used against someone or for fun during social interactions, which as you say, can sap someone's main source of enjoyment in the game.

Wait, is your DM putting restrictions on cantrip use during combat? Cantrips are supposed to be usable at any time period so long as you meet the requirements to cast them (focus/materials, free hand for somatic component, cast time, etc). And then he's relaxing those restrictions for PvP after giving his SO/friend with benefits a grossly overpowered cantrip? Am I missing something here? It can be tricky to treat everyone equally when you're involved with a player but if I understand correctly your DM isn't even trying.

Also, you say the counterspell cantrip is neutering others that are being used for fun during social interactions...is this player counterspelling random flavor cantrips just to be a ****?

I can't tell you how to play the game if you're truly having fun but I suspect an out of character discussion is in order.

[ISAS]

Well, the situation got resolved, mainly because as many of you suggested, we the players had a go around, hashed a few things out and discussed things with our DM about the imbalance of matters and how the one player was effectively spoiling the enjoyment of the rest of us due to his counterspelling spam.

The DM sat us all down together, discussed our respective concerns and agreed that mistakes had been made, and was quick to try resolve things, which removed the offending ability, so I proclaim VICTORY!

[GreyBlack]

Well, the situation got resolved, mainly because as many of you suggested, we the players had a go around, hashed a few things out and discussed things with our DM about the imbalance of matters and how the one player was effectively spoiling the enjoyment of the rest of us due to his counterspelling spam.

The DM sat us all down together, discussed our respective concerns and agreed that mistakes had been made, and was quick to try resolve things, which removed the offending ability, so I proclaim VICTORY!

Dangit! You're not supposed to resolve things like responsible, mature people! We wanted blood for the blood god!

[Yunru]

Dangit! You're not supposed to resolve things like responsible, mature people! We wanted blood for the blood god!Boxes for the box god!

[Man_Over_Game]

Advice for someone trying to circumvent Counterspell in the future, Readying a spell can be countered but releasing the spell cannot. You could technically Ready a spell when out of Line of Sight, move around the corner and have your Ready trigger activate in the same turn, and that spell couldn't be Counterspelled.

As a result, though, it's easier to disrupt, highly circumstantial (have to have a place where you can break LoS), and costs the caster their Reaction. So balance-wise, I think it's balanced as a mechanically creative solution.

[MrStabby]

Well, the situation got resolved, mainly because as many of you suggested, we the players had a go around, hashed a few things out and discussed things with our DM about the imbalance of matters and how the one player was effectively spoiling the enjoyment of the rest of us due to his counterspelling spam.

The DM sat us all down together, discussed our respective concerns and agreed that mistakes had been made, and was quick to try resolve things, which removed the offending ability, so I proclaim VICTORY!

Nah. You hurried the offender in a ditch and this is just to throw us off the scent.

[Ganymede]

Anyone got any advise or recommendations on how to beat this that he can't easily counteract?

Don't fight fellow PCs. Problem solved.

[Chronos]

So, let me get this straight: You're in a game where one of the players is deliberately trying to screw over his party-mates, and the DM is giving him an overpowered ability to facilitate that?

The solution is to find a new group (possibly consisting of everyone in the old group except for the DM and counterspeller).

[JoeJ]

It's counterSPELL, not counterSTAB. 'Nuff said.

[Yunru]

It's counterSPELL, not counterSTAB. 'Nuff said.Shield's the counterstab spell, right?

[JoeJ]

Shield's the counterstab spell, right?

Yeah, but the OP didn't say anything about being able to spam that.