What spells would a Dweomerkeeper always want in their Mantle?

[Malphegor]

So next session my character's going to take his first level in Dweomerkeeper.

And then I realised- I'm going to have a mantle of spells- similar to clerics converting any spell into a cure spell,
the mantle of spells lets the dweomerkeeper convert a spell they've already prepared into a (pre-chosen on attaining the mantle)spell in their mantle of spells, so long as that spell slot is of equal level or higher than the mantle spell you're putting in there.

So, I'm not sure what to put in there despite weeks of prep to get to this point.

Been like a dog chasing a car- I want it, but once I've got it, I'm not sure what to do with it

I could put a damaging spell in there, and never have to prep it ever again. Magic Missile, for example would mean that even if I'm without my spellbook at the end of the world, I could still pew pew pew, and prepare actually fun spells for normal usage.

Alternatively I could put in something like polymorph in there, allowing for as many polymorphs as I have higher or equal spell slots in perpetuity.

Or I could stick Grease in there because it seems like I use that every fight anyway (nobody gets to hold their weapons and everybody is on the floor!)



What would you recommend? What spells could a wizard use being always able to have access to? This is stuff without metamagic or whatever metamagic I use will be locked in I think, so not sure.

(currently up to level 4 spells but higher level spells will be handy to know when I unlock more mantle of spells at higher dweomerkeeper levels)

(Playing a Tiefling if that effects things with spell choice. Polymorphing into outsiders is probably insane bananas cheese to have available at all times...)

[Pippin]

I would say that Celerity is an absolute necessity.

Also Wish. Maybe Spell Engine for ultimate flexibility?

[DeTess]

I'd pick a spell that you really need when you need it, but either can't predict how many you'll need, or you only need it sometimes. You'll usually prepare a bunch of damage spells anyway, so putting them in might be a waste, though if you only use one damage spell (only magic missiles, for example) putting it in the mantel would free up slots for more versatility. Personally I'd put in mid-level utility spells like for example teleport, because you won't be teleporting every day in most games, but when you need a teleport, chances are you need it right now, and preferable more than one.

[Jack_Simth]

As a Wizard? I'd be looking at spells that have a very wide range of application.

For 4th level spells?
Polymorph. It's one of those spells that can do most things, in a pinch. Got an enemy that needs slaying? Turn the party rogue into a hydra, while the party meatshield provides flanking. Need to get over a chasm? Turn a party member into something that flies, and hand them one end of a rope. Wall in the way? There's an amazing array of things with burrow. And so on. In 3.5 as an Outsider, it can even get you a personal teleport (Pick up the Archon Subtype via any of the Archons, including the lowly Lantern Archon - the Archon subtype grants a supernatural Greater Teleport, at will, self-only).

Later spells?
I'm fond of the Shadow line, for similar reasons. Shadow Evocation (5th), Shadow Walk (6th), and Greater Shadow Conjouration (7th), all have a surprising amount of utility options. 8th, of course, goes to Polymorph Any Object, for the same reason that 4th goes to Polymorph.

[Cavir]

I'm playing a cleric based Dweomerkeeper. Only one mantle spell so far. Went with Dispel Magic. A spell you might need multiple times but hope you don't need at all. Greater Dispel later on. You can say "NO" as often as you have spell slots of the minimum level.

[Malphegor]

I would say that Celerity is an absolute necessity.

Celerity is... tempting, means I probably should take Lords of Madness' Quick Recovery feat eventually to recover from the daze on my turn.

Round starts.

Casts celerity, standard action, casts fireball.
Is dazed.

Turn comes. Is Dazed. Quick Recovery allows (a difficult presumably since it'll scale as one grows with the caster level) will save as move action. If make, now has standard action left. Fireball.

Immediately cast celerity. standard action. Casts fireball.
Is dazed.

3 spells in one turn, is the result. That's not far off a Time Stop's effectiveness I think, which is 1d4+1 actions per turn. Putting that in the mantle means you can pull that out at any moment.

That's... horrible.

I love it.

---

I'm probably going to go polymorph mainly for making the party happier because the martial guys will appreciate being a cryo/pyrohydra every fight, but celerity abuse is tempting now.

[OgresAreCute]

Celerity is... tempting, means I probably should take Lords of Madness' Quick Recovery feat eventually to recover from the daze on my turn.

Round starts.

Casts celerity, standard action, casts fireball.
Is dazed.

Turn comes. Is Dazed. Quick Recovery allows (a difficult presumably since it'll scale as one grows with the caster level) will save as move action. If make, now has standard action left. Fireball.

Immediately cast celerity. standard action. Casts fireball.
Is dazed.

3 spells in one turn, is the result. That's not far off a Time Stop's effectiveness I think, which is 1d4+1 actions per turn. Putting that in the mantle means you can pull that out at any moment.

That's... horrible.

I love it.

---

I'm probably going to go polymorph mainly for making the party happier because the martial guys will appreciate being a cryo/pyrohydra every fight, but celerity abuse is tempting now.

If you got a feat to spare, you can take a Lesser Dragonmark + Mark of the Dauntless (from Dragonmarked) to become immune to daze and stunning. A lot more reliable than the will save.

[The Kool]

I planned out a Dweomerkeeper recently, and chose spells that I either planned to use with regularity, or wanted to have handy without eating up space. Generally if you might need it a bunch, it's a good choice. Sounds like Grease wouldn't be a bad option for you, since you use it regularly. If you have a go-to damage spell, that would similarly be a good choice.

I picked up Wish because I had plans to basically spam it. Beyond that, Dispel Magic of course is an excellent choice (though I'd pick either the lower for use of lower slots or else the greater for higher dispel check, not both). If you can use rays effectively, have fun with Disintegrate or Scorching Ray (depending on their effectiveness). Consider a start-of-combat buff you always want to pull out. With it in your mantle alongside your damage dealer you'll never have to guess how many combats you'll be in again. Do you need two buffs, or three? Doesn't matter! Fill those slots with more interesting things.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

I also suggest Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic. It's a spell that will be utterly useless some days, but invaluable on many, many other occasions. Furthermore, when you need it you'll probably need more applications than you'll have prepared. It's also a staple of the wizard, and it fits with the Dweomerkeeper fluff very well. If you're going to get items to boost your Dispel checks (and the Inquisition domain) then maybe you can get away with taking only the basic Dispel Magic. I'd take both though.
For similar reasons, I suggest Polymorph and Teleport (unless you can get Boots of the Wide Earth).
If you don't have Spontaneous Divination, think of taking Alter Fortune. I'm not too sure if it's better than Dispel Magic, but it's very convenient to have on hand!


You've written that you're afraid of losing your spellbook. I suggest trying to get access to Greater Arcane Fusion somehow. If your GM rules that ownership doesn't end just because something was stolen (the law says agrees!) then having this spell in your Mantle will let you cast any spell in your spellbooks despite having lost them. It's also an excellent use of your action economy.
The Arcane Fusion line of spells are amazing, but they're Sorcerer-only spells. You can get them through Recaster or Wyrm Wizard, or maybe even Extra Spell. Interestingly, Mantle of Spells isn't based on spells known but on "spells you can cast": this means that arguably, if you can get a Runestaff of Wings of Cover, Arcane Fusion and Arcane Spellsurge and add them to your mantle of spells.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd also suggest dispel magic, except it's only useful for so long, and then it's almost useless (unless you're frequently forced to dispel your own spells). Polymorph, however, is ridiculously useful even into high epic, as is grease. If you can use metamagicked versions of your mantle spells, make sure to choose something that A.) you'll cast often but won't know how many you'll need in a given day, B.) is extremely metamagickable when using higher level spell slots, C.) is worth metamagicking with higher level spell slots, and D.) will be useful long past the point where spells of a similar level are left by the wayside. Polymorph fits most of those, but fails on being highly useful with metamagic.

Oddly enough, detect magic is incredibly useful here, since you can utilize the locate city bomb trick with it. Just mix and match your metamagic to get different effects, such as Explosive Spell or Fell Drain when you need them. The big negative here is that you can permanency it, so that's taken care of even without using it in your mantle. Something similar that can't be permanency'd would be fantastic, though. Like telekinesis. It actually fits with all of the above, actually. Perhaps consider that.

Celerity is useful with enough metamagic to qualify, as well, so yeah, that's a good pick.

[Pippin]

Polymorph might not be a good call in optimised enough games, because you have Shapechange up and running already.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Polymorph might not be a good call in optimised enough games, because you have Shapechange up and running already.Unlike shapechange, though, polymorph can affect other people. As can polymorph any object, though.

With some optimization, silent image works here, but there are better ways to do this one.

[St Fan]

Anyspell and Greater Anyspell.

Then, whenever you need an arcane spell you haven't memorized, up to level 5, you can replace a spell slot with it, as long as it's in your spellbook, by studying it for 15 minutes.

If you have the Rapid Spell feat, you can even do it in 1 minute.

This include arcane spells that aren't even on the wizard list, as long as you have them under some written form.

What, you're a wizard and don't have access to the Spell domain? Take the Arcane Disciple feat before putting the two spells in the mantle. And once it's done, you can even retrain Arcane Disciple.

[Malphegor]

Anyspell and Greater Anyspell.

That is... Not a bad shout, come to think of it. I forgot that it’s possible to get Anyspell on a primarily arcane caster via the domain and arcane disciple since I usually see it in divine guides.
Huh. That actually plays nicely into being a wizard of wizards who guards magic itself, if you can just suddenly know spells you previously had no knowledge of.

Edit: misunderstood how Anyspell worked. I assumed it would give you sudden and immediate access to all the spells in its range, which in retrospect is a cocobananas idea. It actually mainly just opens up arcane spells for divine casters, plus it needs a hefty domain slot. For a cleric-focused dweomerkeeper, that'd be ideal, but for a wizard-focused dweomerkeeper, it's not.

[Anthrowhale]

At higher levels, Rary's Arcane Conversion can give you access to all spells in your spellbook with a 1 round delay. If you have heighten spell this means you need not even study your spellbook to prepare spells. In a combat situation, if you have Arcane Spellsurge active then you can cast any standard action spell in your spellbook (with any desired metamagic) as a standard action(for arcane conversion)+swift action(for the spell).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Rary's Arcane ConversionCasting this with your own spell slots seems like a waste, to me. Useful when you absolutely need it, but it's more for a scroll. Using your mantle spell for it feels about as anti-economical as magically possible.

How about Rary's mnemonic enhancer? Get tons of lower level spells on the fly when you need them for lots of utility. Works best if you can cast it as a 3rd level spell.

[Anthrowhale]

Casting this with your own spell slots seems like a waste, to me. Useful when you absolutely need it, but it's more for a scroll. Using your mantle spell for it feels about as anti-economical as magically possible.
I agree it's expensive, but being able to cast any spell you know spontaneously is pretty good too. The Uncanny Forethought path to the same effect is superior if you can spare the feats.


How about Rary's mnemonic enhancer? Get tons of lower level spells on the fly when you need them for lots of utility. Works best if you can cast it as a 3rd level spell.
The 10 minute casting time makes it marginal compared to just leaving open slots.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I agree it's expensive, but being able to cast any spell you know spontaneously is pretty good too. The Uncanny Forethought path to the same effect is superior if you can spare the feats.Agreed.


The 10 minute casting time makes it marginal compared to just leaving open slots.Rapid Spell means you can get plenty of lower level spells in just 1 minute.

Still, I think I'd rather have celerity or telekinesis. I was just making a suggestion to see how the OP might receive it.

Too bad there's no version of, say, summon monster whose level is based on what spell slot it's cast from. That would be fantastic.

[Cavir]

Too bad there's no version of, say, summon monster whose level is based on what spell slot it's cast from. That would be fantastic.
Yeah, Summon Monster I with Heighten Spell would be sweet. i think I had a DM allow that once for a sorcerer but that was many years ago.