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King of Nowhere
2019-02-25, 07:51 AM
So, I first stumbled upon battlemage perception a while ago, and thought "what a cool spell! You can be surprised and still be ready to counterspell"

Later, though, I figured out the related problems: Ok, if only you have it, you always dispel a spell for free. A winner is you!
If everyone has it, however, every wizard fight will start with both opponents spending the first round getting dispelled arbitrarily. Lame. May as well start on round 2.
If many wizards are in the fight, then the side with greater numbers win, because of the greater number of battlemage perceptions. basically, the side with greater numbers will be the only side capable of casting spells. Also lame.

I was wondering if there are ways to avoid any fight involving wizards to get bogged down that way.

Two questions related to this:
1) battlemage perception simply states that you can decide to counter the spell as a free action. Do you still need to have the proper spell for countering? Do you consume that spell, together with battlemage perception, by doing so?
2) Normally, you cannot counterspell quickened spells. Can you counter quickened spells with battlemage perception?

magic9mushroom
2019-02-25, 08:29 AM
Two questions related to this:
1) battlemage perception simply states that you can decide to counter the spell as a free action. Do you still need to have the proper spell for countering? Do you consume that spell, together with battlemage perception, by doing so?
2) Normally, you cannot counterspell quickened spells. Can you counter quickened spells with battlemage perception?

1) As far as I can tell, you still need to use the appropriate spell or Dispel Magic. Remember that Dispel Magic requires a dispel check.
2) Your assertion that quickened spells cannot be counterspelled is not correct.

ExLibrisMortis
2019-02-25, 08:59 AM
I think it's a pretty natural phenomenon, and not really a problem. Don't forget that the caster with the highest dispel check will actually get to cast more spells, so there is definitely something to be optimized here. A spellcaster with Divine Defiance is at an advantage, too, being able to counter a second spell (such as a Quickened spell) each turn.

So basically, Inquisition domain clerics are amazing duellists. Church Inquisitors with battlemagic perception shut down enemy spellcasting pretty hard (while they have spells, anyway).

magic9mushroom
2019-02-26, 01:38 AM
I think it's a pretty natural phenomenon, and not really a problem. Don't forget that the caster with the highest dispel check will actually get to cast more spells, so there is definitely something to be optimized here. A spellcaster with Divine Defiance is at an advantage, too, being able to counter a second spell (such as a Quickened spell) each turn.

So basically, Inquisition domain clerics are amazing duellists. Church Inquisitors with battlemagic perception shut down enemy spellcasting pretty hard (while they have spells, anyway).

Don't count out wizards too fast. Master Abjurer into Archmage is a great duellist, with +5 to dispel checks, +2 CL for Abjuration, and Spell Turning on counterspell (also Evasion + Mettle for (spell level) rounds after casting an Abjuration spell and the ability to cast AMF on other people).

But yes, Divine Defiance is really, really good.

I'd be leery of repeatedly recasting BmP in combat. I'd be more inclined to ready a damage spell on them casting, unless they were likely to do something else. Nobody can make the Concentration checks for getting nuked while casting, and you've done damage (and possibly something else) instead of just negating their action. The exception is if you're the above Archmage with Mastery of Counterspelling.