The Evil Chalice

[Riftwolf]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html

Panel 5 of this strip has been bugging me for a long time. What's the evil chalice Qarrs bosses won't shut up about? Is it a d&d artefact? A reference to another franchise? Total red herring? An as yet unrevealed plot point that has been up till now been overlooked?

[Fyraltari]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html

Panel 5 of this strip has been bugging me for a long time. What's the evil chalice Qarrs bosses won't shut up about? Is it a d&d artefact? A reference to another franchise? Total red herring? An as yet unrevealed plot point that has been up till now been overlooked?
World building. There are other stories than the one we follow happening. Other devils and villains are enacting plots being thwarted by other devas and heroes.

[Goblin_Priest]

World building. There are other stories than the one we follow happening. Other devils and villains are enacting plots being thwarted by other devas and heroes.

While I'd go with that, yes, I do get the feeling it's a reference to something else. An evil holy grail? A chalice One Ring?

Is there something about an evil chalice in some popular fantasy world or some D&D adventure module?

[Morty]

My money is on an otherwise irrelevant off-hand remark that happened because Quarr needed something V could help him with.

[KorvinStarmast]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html

Panel 5 of this strip has been bugging me for a long time. What's the evil chalice Qarrs bosses won't shut up about? Is it a d&d artefact? A reference to another franchise? Total red herring? An as yet unrevealed plot point that has been up till now been overlooked? It is possible that it will be called back in Book VII. Rich is setting up something like a Götterdämmerung (I suspect) as a feature of that book's plot. Beyond simply saving this world, the status quo among the gods is at risk as shown in that series of strips on the Island.

The IFCC's plan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) is aimed at an invasion of the Celestial realms and a victory over the good gods.

TDO's plan involves threatening their realm with the Snarl, which being a god eating abomination, is a serious problem for residents of the outer planes. (Just ask the Eastern Pantheon).

As with the other books, what the Order thinks is "the plot" (stop Xykon) is often partly correct but then another thing shows up. The arc with Hel is a fine example of that. The arc in Aint No Cure For the Paladin Blues established that they get surprised by larger events with some frequency.

The chalice may provide Rich with another call back on that evil chalice that will have a related impact on the world shaking events for the final volume.

Or, Fyraltari's assessment is the case. It's a big world with a lot of other events going on, such as the revolt against Tarqin that is happening off screen.

[hroþila]

Generic plot item for some world building, no different from the treasure those heroes and Tarquin were after.

[Morty]

Considering Quarr's clear status as a low-ranking bottom-feeder among devils before he stumbled into the IFFC's plan, I highly doubt this chalice has any role in the big trio's plans. Quarr's supervisor is unlikely to be more than an infernal middle-manager, either.

[Fyraltari]

It is possible that it will be called back in Book VII. Rich is setting up something like a Götterdämmerung (I suspect) as a feature of that book's plot. Beyond simply saving this world, the status quo among the gods is at risk as shown in that series of strips on the Island.

The IFCC's plan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) is aimed at an invasion of the Celestial realms and a victory over the good gods.

TDO's plan involves threatening their realm with the Snarl, which being a god eating abomination, is a serious problem for residents of the outer planes. (Just ask the Eastern Pantheon).

As with the other books, what the Order thinks is "the plot" (stop Xykon) is often partly correct but then another thing shows up. The arc with Hel is a fine example of that. The arc in Aint No Cure For the Paladin Blues established that they get surprised by larger events with some frequency.

The chalice may provide Rich with another call back on that evil chalice that will have a related impact on the world shaking events for the final volume.

Or, Fyraltari's assessment is the case. It's a big world with a lot of other events going on, such as the revolt against Tarqin that is happening off screen.

Since Qarr doesn’t work for whoever was looking for that object but the IFCC, I doubt it will come up.

I think this bit’s purpose was to, in order:
A) introduce the concept of Faustian deal to V and explain why the Directors would want Qarr to hang around and have their plot explained to, i.e. setting up the IFCC plot thread.

B) Further Qarr’s characterization as a small fry in the devilfish pool.
The best plan he can come up with is giving V tips (not even spells) in exchange for hunting an artifact (like the Linear Guild was doing before the comic hits the hundred strips when the plot has expanded far beyond that) so he can suck up to his boss. This makes a nice contrast with the Archfiends that pop up a couple strips later.
C) Worldbuilding.

[Jay R]

Once you realize what Vaarsuvius's gender and the MitD's race are, then it becomes obvious what the Evil Chalice is, how it ties the Order's quest in with Frudu and the Ming, and why a doily is so powerful.

[Peelee]

While I'd go with that, yes, I do get the feeling it's a reference to something else. An evil holy grail? A chalice One Ring?

Is there something about an evil chalice in some popular fantasy world or some D&D adventure module?

It's not a reference to anything. It's just a thing that can conceivably exist in a fantasy world, and shows that the world is bigger than the Order.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It's not a reference to anything. It's just a thing that can conceivably exist in a fantasy world, and shows that the world is bigger than the Order.

We never did hear what those plant-hopping druids wanted Xykon for, either. Or if they have any friends that are even now planning on how to finish the job.
Nor would I expect to hear about it
Grey Wolf

[D.One]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html

Panel 5 of this strip has been bugging me for a long time. What's the evil chalice Qarrs bosses won't shut up about? Is it a d&d artefact? A reference to another franchise? Total red herring? An as yet unrevealed plot point that has been up till now been overlooked?

He's talking about the Unholy Laarg, obviously :smallwink:

[Peelee]

He's talking about the Unholy Laarg, obviously :smallwink:

You sure? It sounded more like the Malevolent Mug of the Mad Mage to me.

[D.One]

You sure? It sounded more like the Malevolent Mug of the Mad Mage to me.

Didn't you read about it? It turns out they are one and the same.

[Peelee]

Didn't you read about it? It turns out they are one and the same.

Dang, that must have been in the amended appendix volume 8, I haven't got that one yet.

[Fyraltari]

Once you realize what Vaarsuvius's gender and the MitD's race are, then it becomes obvious what the Evil Chalice is, how it ties the Order's quest in with Frudu and the Ming, and why a doily is so powerful.

Of course! It's Banjo's throne for when he becomes King of the Northern Pantheon!

[Riftwolf]

I was hoping for a more reasonable answer akin to 'it could be the Asmodean Chalice, an artefact of the Blood War', rather than Banjo and facetiousness.
I get that it's unlikely to ever come up again and its world-building and the world is bigger than the story and all of that. But, seeing as there's a ton of references in this self-aware fourth wall breaking comic, I didn't think it too credulous to think an evil chalice wanted by low level fiends was a reference to something specific.

[Emanick]

Of course! It's Banjo's throne for when he becomes King of the Northern Pantheon!

Dude. The spoiler tag is there for a reason. :smallmad:

[Fyraltari]

I was hoping for a more reasonable answer akin to 'it could be the Asmodean Chalice, an artefact of the Blood War', rather than Banjo and facetiousness.
Why would you not want facetiousness?

I get that it's unlikely to ever come up again and its world-building and the world is bigger than the story and all of that. But, seeing as there's a ton of references in this self-aware fourth wall breaking comic, I didn't think it too credulous to think an evil chalice wanted by low level fiends was a reference to something specific.
I've been trying to think of even famous one evil chalice or cup and I can't. It's weird. With how often drinking comes up in magic rituals, you'd think there would be more magic cups out ther in literature but most of them seem to just be relevant for one ritual rather than have whole quests be about them. The obvious exception being the Holy Grail and even that isn't originally a cup (it's more of a plate).

Dude. The spoiler tag is there for a reason. :smallmad:
Dude, it's so obvious, you just have to remeber that Hilgya and Julia are both Redcloak's niece.

[D.One]

The obvious exception being the Holy Grail and even that isn't originally a cup (it's more of a plate).

Also, not evil. :smallwink:

And just now I've noticed that for my previous pun to work fully in english, I should have called it The Unholy Liarg...

[KorvinStarmast]

Since Qarr doesn’t work for whoever was looking for that object but the IFCC He did, but then the IFCC changed his work situation.
1. his supervisor won't shut up about the chalice in 631.
2. "you are not my regular supervisor!" in 632
3. Qarr discovers he's been transferred "his new office" in 637.
Given the call back on Hilgya, I'm not putting anything past the giant.


Once you realize what Vaarsuvius's gender and the MitD's race are, then it becomes obvious what the Evil Chalice is, how it ties the Order's quest in with Frudu and the Ming, and why a doily is so powerful (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0033.html). I added the crucial link for you. :smallsmile:

I was hoping for a more reasonable answer akin to 'it could be the Asmodean Chalice, an artefact of the Blood War', rather than Banjo and facetiousness. As a grumpy old chief once told me: you can hope in one hand and defecate in the other: see which one fills up first. :smalleek:

As to the grail, it's either a cup, or a plate, or a dish, or (if you believe a book from the 1980's, it's a play on words for holy blood) ... being (as far as is known) a legendary object it apparently isn't clear what it is. It's been years since I read that book, but I recall the author proposing a play on words like Sang Real, versus San Graal ... but I also seem to recall that some of the book's source material was later shown to be fraudulent.
(hmm, and then there's this ... They concluded that the legendary Holy Grail is simultaneously the womb of Mary Magdalene and the sacred royal bloodline she gave birth to.

[Fyraltari]

He did, but then the IFCC changed his work situation.
1. his supervisor won't shut up about the chalice in 631.
2. "you are not my regular supervisor!" in 632
3. Qarr discovers he's been transferred "his new office" in 637.

Yes I forgot to put "anymore" in there, but that was my intended meaning. Qarr has no reason to care about this anymore and the only other "character" who does is not named, never appeared on screen and is implied to be lower ranking than our fiendish trio. So it probably won't come up again.

[Riftwolf]

As a grumpy old chief once told me: you can hope in one hand and defecate in the other: see which one fills up first. :smalleek:

I'd ask the forum to stop dumping into my hands, figuratively and literally.

[Peelee]

I'd ask the forum to stop dumping into my hands, figuratively and literally.

Over my cold dead body! And hopefully washed. Cold, dead, washed body. By someone who also washed their hands.

[Fyraltari]

I'd ask the forum to stop dumping into my hands, figuratively and literally.
Well, if I were KorvinStarmast's chief I'd tell you not to put your hands in the loo, then.

Over my cold dead body

Under* your cold dead body.

[Gift Jeraff]

It's Xykon's crown.

[Peelee]

It's Xykon's crown.

Nah, that doesn't hold water. Unless... (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0851/8780/products/57_b1ba58b6-683d-4ddd-97fa-c047be983263_large.jpg?v=1529533861)

[Synesthesy]

It's Xykon's crown.

This should be a beer mark.

[blunk]

In my mind, it's in the catacombs of the Black Castle being guarded by Yorgle, the yellow duck? dragon.

[KorvinStarmast]

In my mind, it's in the catacombs of the Black Castle being guarded by Yorgle, the yellow duck? dragon.

I suspect that there as many "headcanons" as there are readers. That IMO is a good thing. It gives us something to talk about.

[D.One]

Nah, that doesn't hold water. Unless... (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0851/8780/products/57_b1ba58b6-683d-4ddd-97fa-c047be983263_large.jpg?v=1529533861)

Of course that doesn't hold water. It's an Evil Chalice. It doesn't hold something lame as water.

[Jay R]

I was hoping for a more reasonable answer akin to 'it could be the Asmodean Chalice, an artefact of the Blood War', rather than Banjo and facetiousness.

It's a written thread, not an oral conversation. The time I spend writing a light-hearted joke doesn't take away somebody else's time to write a serious answer. If we hadn't been silly, there wouldn't be more serious posts; there were just be fewer total posts.

The strength of an internet discussion is the ability to conduct multiple threads.

Frankly, the serious answer is just this: it was a throwaway gag line.

[Vinyadan]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html

Evil cleric? Check.

Blood of the innocent? Check.

Unruly teenager? Check.

Questionable fashion choices? Check.



It really doesn't get any more evil than this.

[D.One]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html

Evil cleric? Check.

Blood of the innocent? Check.

Unruly teenager? Check.

Questionable fashion choices? Check.



It really doesn't get any more evil than this.

Which means Qarr should be digging the Chalice in the rubble of the Dungeon of Dorukan...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Which means Qarr should be digging the Chalice in the rubble of the Dungeon of Dorukan...

And if Qarr doesn't know where that is, he'd need someone known to have been there and willing to give him the info. Like, say, V.

Grey Wolf

[martianmister]

I always see it as an evil version of Holy Grail, something sought after but can't be found. Hey, maybe if they found that chalice, an evil sword, an evil stone and an evil spear, they would unite those and create the gift of gods.

[Fyraltari]

I always see it as an evil version of Holy Grail, something sought after but can't be found. Hey, maybe if they found that chalice, an evil sword, an evil stone and an evil spear, they would unite those and create the gift of gods.

Is this a reference to something in particular? Because I'm not aware of any Arthurian myth where the grail has to be united with the sword, the stone and the spear.

[martianmister]

Is thins a reference to something in particular? Becaus eI'm not aware of any Arthurian myth where the grail has to be united with the sword, the stone and the spear.
It's part of ancient european myths.
http://www.monsalvat.no/symbols.htm