Dragon Racing!

[Palanan]

Are there any published modules, encounters, etc. which put the PCs in the middle of an aerial race? Dragons are fine but not required; any flying mounts will do, or even flying vehicles. I'm open to point-to-point races like the Bendix, or closed-course racing like the Thompson Trophy.

Alternatively, are there any modules or etc. which have high-stakes racing scenarios in any form? Ideally something with more inventive challenges than just a series of Ride or Fly checks. I’m open to all first-party Wizards and Paizo content, as well as Dragon magazine, and even third-party if it’s well done.

[Raz Dazzle]

Away from my books at the moment, but I believe one of the Eberron sourcebooks (probably Sharn: City of Towers) details a famous annual race that takes place on flying mounts.

[unseenmage]

IIRC theres a racing drake printed somewhere with a blurb in their text about how racing them works.

[Gallowglass]

Way back to basic D&D there was a great additional rulebook called "Top Ballista" which was all about flying creatures and planes. Lots of dogfighting rules and racing rules. Man I loved that book.

Of course, I bet if I found a copy and reread it I would be astounded by the simplicity of it as I'm sure I'm seeing it through rose-colored glasses.

[Thurbane]

I think the 5E module Tomb of Annihilation might have some stuff about dinosaur racing?

There are some Chase rules in DMG2, but only for land based chases.

The 3rd party book Tournaments, Fairs, & Taverns (by E.N. Publishing) has rules about various races, but I don't have access to it, so not sure if it covers flying races.

You could probably come up with some house rules, involving Ride checks modified by fly speed and manoeuvrability (for mounted dragons). Obviously, the races would have to be grouped by base fly speed: a creature with a fly speed of 40 is never going to beat a creature with a fly speed of 60, in a straight "track" race...

[the_david]

There's the race of the eight winds. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041220a) I thought there was more info about this, maybe an adventure?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Raz Dazzle
Away from my books at the moment, but I believe one of the Eberron sourcebooks (probably Sharn: City of Towers) details a famous annual race that takes place on flying mounts.

I think it is the Sharn sourcebook, which is one of the few I don’t have. :smallsigh:


Originally Posted by unseenmage
IIRC theres a racing drake printed somewhere with a blurb in their text about how racing them works.

Is this 3.5 or Pathfinder? I can’t find any mention of it, but I dearly love the idea of a racing drake, and I’d love to see this reference.


Originally Posted by Gallowglass
Way back to basic D&D there was a great additional rulebook called "Top Ballista" which was all about flying creatures and planes. Lots of dogfighting rules and racing rules.

Found it on Amazon, wept at the asking price. It does look fantastic, though.


Originally Posted by Thurbane
The 3rd party book Tournaments, Fairs, & Taverns (by E.N. Publishing) has rules about various races, but I don't have access to it, so not sure if it covers flying races.

Doesn’t seem to have anything about aerial racing, but any book with rules for greased pig wrestling is doing something right. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by the_david
There's the race of the eight winds.

Thanks, I came across that earlier. I think that’s a web enhancement for the Sharn sourcebook that Raz mentioned.

[unseenmage]

Is this 3.5 or Pathfinder? I can’t find any mention of it, but I dearly love the idea of a racing drake, and I’d love to see this reference.
Apologies but I cannot for the life of me find or remember.

Gut instinct? Dragon magazine article or web article.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by unseenmage
Apologies but I cannot for the life of me find or remember.

I just found a reference to racing drakes in Dragon Empires Gazetteer, but it's barely a short phrase, "high-class drake races with lavish prizes" (p. 24). There doesn't seem to be a listing for racing drakes as a separate creature, at least not on the Pathfinder wiki.

But trust me, I want to believe. :smalltongue:

[JMS]

2nd book of War for the crown has halfling charioters, IIRC, but that may not help. 4e skill chalanges would be perfect, I would look at DMG 2 for 4e and Dragon Magazine Annual, article "Fight" has a "Death Race"

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by unseenmage
Apologies but I cannot for the life of me find or remember.

There’s also a reference to the same racing drakes of Goka in The Hill Giant’s Pledge, although it’s just a brief note about the severity of their treatment. This is in a comprehensive article on drakes, but oddly it doesn’t mention which race(s) of drakes are raced in Goka.


Originally Posted by JMS
Dragon Magazine Annual, article "Fight" has a "Death Race"

Do you know what year and/or issue number that is?

[JMS]

Do you know what year and/or issue number that is?

Dragon Mag 368, which is 4e content, but skill challenges are decent in 3.5, without much back-porting. the 4e DMG 2 has a lot of advice on skill challenges, look there for help.

[unseenmage]

Dragon Mag 368, which is 4e content, but skill challenges are decent in 3.5, without much back-porting. the 4e DMG 2 has a lot of advice on skill challenges, look there for help.

As I did briefly play 4E this is likely what I half remembered.

[JMS]

As I did briefly play 4E this is likely what I half remembered.

It's not dragon racing, there is a Dragon Mag article for 4e that I am half remembering on Hevestar that had racing drakes, but I don't even know the name.

[unseenmage]

It's not dragon racing, there is a Dragon Mag article for 4e that I am half remembering on Hevestar that had racing drakes, but I don't even know the name.

Personally this is super frustrating too. All of my gaming resources are in storage while myself and my family try to put our lives back together.

So the magazine itself, either the physical copy or the digital, is in the back of a storage locker somewhere practically irreferencable.

Normally I'd stand there pulling out magazines while memory sparked and stuttered until eventually, if it turned out to be a 4E thing, I'd take two steps to the computer and lazily scroll through cover arts until I found whatever was tickling my remembering bits.

... sigh ...

On the other hand I am glad others are proving able to fill in the gaps a bit where I failed to deliver.

Thank you for your dilligence.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JMS
It's not dragon racing, there is a Dragon Mag article for 4e that I am half remembering on Hevestar that had racing drakes, but I don't even know the name.

Is there an index for 4E Dragon mags? My google-fu is weak today.

Also, what is Hevestar? Is this a hosting server, game world, publishing platform? Again, I can’t find anything about it online.


Originally Posted by unseenmage
On the other hand I am glad others are proving able to fill in the gaps a bit where I failed to deliver.

Not to worry. You got us started on the mad quest, and it’s given me some good ideas along the way.

[JMS]

Is there an index for 4E Dragon mags? My google-fu is weak today.

Also, what is Hevestar? Is this a hosting server, game world, publishing platform? Again, I can’t find anything about it online.

I’ll look when I get home for a index
Hevestar is a Planar metropolis in 4e, located in the Astral Sea, and home to the deities Pelor, Ioun, and Erathis.
(Personally, it’s a stereotypical San Francisco/Paris to Sigil’s Hong Kong/New York/London and the City of Brass’s every manufacturing city ever, so very art and social focused, rather than info or crafting).

[unseenmage]

...

Not to worry. You got us started on the mad quest, and it’s given me some good ideas along the way.

For what it's worth I did rediscover the Temporal Drake (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20031122a) in my own digging. Could definitely be an interesting choice of racing drake.

[Palanan]

Since there don't seem to be official stats for racing drakes, I thought I'd rough out my best guess as to what that might look like:

Racing Drake - CR 4

N Large dragon
Init + 8; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +10

AC 14, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+4 Dex, +1 natural, -1 size)
hp 47 (5d12+15)
Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +4
Immune: paralysis, sleep

Speed 40 ft., fly 80 ft. (good)
Melee bite +7 (1d8+2), tail slap +3 (1d8+2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.

Str 14, Dex 19, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 9
Base Atk +5; CMB +10; CMD 22
Feats Improved Initiative, Wingover, Extra Speed Surge
Skills Fly +9, Intimidate +9, Perception +10, Sense Motive +5, Stealth +9
Languages Common
SQ speed surge

Special Abilities: Extra Speed Surge allows the racing drake to use its speed surge ability six times per day.



I'd appreciate any thoughts or corrections on this, since I don't have much experience building creatures in Pathfinder.

For instance, I’m not sure how to calculate the attack bonus for a tail slap, and I’m also not sure about the skills, since the various drakes (e.g. flame drake, forest drake, etc.) have skill bonuses much higher than I’m getting by following the monster creation guidelines in the Bestiary. So, all constructive criticism welcome on this.

[Chainguy]

Since there don't seem to be official stats for racing drakes, I thought I'd rough out my best guess as to what that might look like:

...snip...

I'd appreciate any thoughts or corrections on this, since I don't have much experience building creatures in Pathfinder.

For instance, I’m not sure how to calculate the attack bonus for a tail slap, and I’m also not sure about the skills, since the various drakes (e.g. flame drake, forest drake, etc.) have skill bonuses much higher than I’m getting by following the monster creation guidelines in the Bestiary. So, all constructive criticism welcome on this.

This is quite nice!

For the secondary natural attacks, it is made with a -5 penalty on the attack roll and 1/2 Str bonus on damage, although you could tag it as functionning like one from a true dragon and it would then get 1-1/2 Str bonus on damage.

For skills monsters often get racial bonuses on them, which are not necessarily specified in their stat-blocks. Also having a flight speed with good maneuverability gives an automatic +4 on Fly. Since it's a racing drake I might give it a further racial +4 on top for their Fly and a +2 or +4 in Perception.

Hope this helps!

edit: Just noticed it should also have a -2 Fly because of Large size on top of it all.

[unseenmage]

I don't have too much to add that Chainguy didn't already cover.
So instead I'll ponder the less crunchy bits.

I 'd have it also speak draconic.

It could use a blurb at the top about what it looks like physically. Is it more true dragon or wyvern? More dive bomber or high glider wing structure?

Are they raced like horses or dogs; ridden by jockeys or led around a track by a lure?

Maybe a semicomical bit about how their society paints stripes and flames on their fastest members because they believe it makes them go faster.

Since they're intelligent enough for speech do they race because they were bred to or because they evolved to?

If ridden do they bond with a rider or make agreements?

They could benefit from an Environment line.
Do they race the craggy spires of high mountains or across the open plains or through the skies just barely skipping across the wide oceans?

How incorporated are they normally into local civilizations? Are there racing drake messengers in the cities?

A single sentence about each thing in turn and viola, a write up will be born.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Chainguy
For skills monsters often get racial bonuses on them, which are not necessarily specified in their stat-blocks. Also having a flight speed with good maneuverability gives an automatic +4 on Fly. Since it's a racing drake I might give it a further racial +4 on top for their Fly and a +2 or +4 in Perception.

Thanks for your comments and for these points in particular. Sounds like another +6 to Fly is in order? A total of +15 Fly seems like a lot, but no denying it would be an asset for creatures bred to race.


Originally Posted by unseenmage
I don't have too much to add that Chainguy didn't already cover.
So instead I'll ponder the less crunchy bits.

And thanks for your detailed thoughts, these are all very helpful.

I’ve already added the racing drakes to my own campaign world, so I wrote them up from that perspective. They are indeed ridden by jockeys, and they exist primarily in captivity; the few that escape into the wild usually don’t last long, because they’re physically not as tough as other drakes.

Racing drake messengers is another great idea. I’ve been trying to work up a long-distance communications network for the main empire of my setting, so racing drakes will certainly be something to keep in mind.



Also, since I’m on a bit of a roll, here’s another domesticated drake variant, one bred for combat:


Wardrake - CR 5

N Large dragon
Init + 6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +8

AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+2 Dex, +4 natural, -1 size)
hp 52 (5d12+20)
Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +5
Immune: paralysis, sleep

Speed 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (good)
Melee bite +8 (1d8+3), 2 claws (1d6+1), tail slap +3 (1d8+1)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks: fireball breath, rend (2 claws, 1d6+4)

Str 16, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 12
Base Atk +5; CMB +10; CMD 22
Feats Improved Initiative, Armor Proficiency, Flyby Attack
Skills Fly +13, Intimidate +6, Perception +8, Sense Motive +4, Survival +4
Languages Common, Draconic
SQ speed surge

Special Abilities

Fireball Breath (Su): As a standard action, a wardrake can spit a ball of fire that detonates as a fireball. This attack has a range of 100 feet and deals 3d6 points of fire damage (DC 16 Reflex half) to all creatures with a 20-foot radius. A wardrake can spit a fireball once every 1d4 rounds.

Rend (Ex): If a wardrake hits with both claw attacks in a single round, it deals 1d6+4 points of additional damage.



I’m even less sure about this one, since I can’t find a reference for what the basic claw damage should be, and I’m completely confused about skills. The idea is for these drakes to be ridden into combat while wearing armor, so the emphasis is less on speed and agility than delivering attacks from the air.

That said, I’m not sure if this works, so I’d really appreciate any thoughts or corrections. The more I try to figure out CMD and CMB, the more confused I get, and I can’t make sense of what the skills should be.

.

[Palanan]

Any thoughts on the wardrake? All constructive criticism welcome.

[Chainguy]

The claw damage you used is right on the money, as are the CMB and CMD. In the skill department maybe switch survival for stealth?

I'm not that familiar with Pathfinder myself but all the skills mentioned are class skills for dragons so should'nt it have +3 in each for proficiency? (goes for the racing drake too).

You may also want to showcase them in the Homebrew forum for even more/better feedback.