Samurai/Hexblade - range Elven Accuracy abusing build?

[Benny89]

So I was theorycrafting a build that is non-melee but can abuse the hell out of Elven Accuracy feat. First I was thinking about Xbow Xpert, but that feat + SS stretch our ASI a little bit. And I also need a way to give myself advantage as many times as possible. Being SAD would also help.

So I thought about combining Samurai with Hexblade.

Hexblade for Improved Pack Weapon so you can conjure a pact Longbow and to be SAD CHA. This way we can start with 17 CHA and pick up Elven Accuracy at level 4. And We of course access Darkness + Devil Sigh Combo to give our self advantage twice per short rest.

Samurai seems like great choice. Not only Fighting Spirit gives a way of getting advantage for a turn (including Action Surge) but extra attacks + Archery Style will work great. This way we can give our self advantage three times per long rest (for some reason).

The split would probably be 17/3 to get second Action Surge or 16/4 to even ASI (to not delay Sharpshooter too much). Hexblade just for SAD CHA and Pact Weapon and Darkness. Invocations: Devil's Sight and Improved Pact Weapon (can be traded later). We also get Curse for our single target damage.

ASI would be Elven Accuracy, Sharpshooter and +2 CHA.

The basic tactic would be to drop Darkness on yourself and snipe from within with advantage up to 120 feet in Darkness or up to 600 feet in normal light (out side of Darkness). When that tactic is not possible, using Fighting Spirit to give yourself advantage.

I am not sure about leveling though.... I guess starting with Samurai up to level 5 would be best to grab Elven Accuracy as fast as possible and extra attack. We wold rely on Fighting Spirit for now. Then 3 levels in Hexblade (though we could make it 4 to even ASI to grab Sharpshooter faster, but then we lose second Action Surge) and then all rest fighter. Starting with Fighter I think makes more sense as Samurai get's proficiency in WIS anyway letter, so it's better to grab CON prof first.

Race would be of course Half-Elf Drow for another Darkness and Faerie Fire.

What do you think about this build?

[Willie the Duck]

I am not sure about leveling though.... I guess starting with Samurai up to level 5 would be best to grab Elven Accuracy as fast as possible and extra attack. We wold rely on Fighting Spirit for now. Then 3 levels in Hexblade (though we could make it 4 to even ASI to grab Sharpshooter faster, but then we lose second Action Surge) and then all rest fighter. Starting with Fighter I think makes more sense as Samurai get's proficiency in WIS anyway letter, so it's better to grab CON prof first.

Race would be of course Half-Elf Drow for another Darkness and Faerie Fire.

What do you think about this build?

The eternal issue of hexblade dipping is waiting for it to come online. If you do not start with three levels of hexblade(lock), then you are spending a significant part of (arguably the most difficult part) your character's career fighting with your non-cha combat stat (which, if it is all that good, why are you bothering trying to get SAD?). If, otoh, you start with the 3 levels of hexblade and then go up in fighter, you are waiting until level 8 (!) until you get your second attack. Even if you are in a game where the DM assures you that you are going all the way up to level 20 (and that it won't be one of those cases where 80-90% of the game is spent on levels 1-12 and then you sidelong rush to 20 just to do it), you still have to survive to get to level 8 where your combo starts taking off.

To me it sounds like a great concept for a replacement character you bring in at level X (8+) after your existing character dies off for good or is retired. However, playing it from level 1 sounds like an exercise in frustrated waiting to finally be rewarded for your diligent min-maxing... at some point (while the player of the 2-weapon fighting barbarian or evoker wizard or other non-optimized build has been having fun since level 1).

You are certainly not wrong about the on-paper power of the build. Great theory-crafting!

[Benny89]

The eternal issue of hexblade dipping is waiting for it to come online. If you do not start with three levels of hexblade(lock), then you are spending a significant part of (arguably the most difficult part) your character's career fighting with your non-cha combat stat (which, if it is all that good, why are you bothering trying to get SAD?). If, otoh, you start with the 3 levels of hexblade and then go up in fighter, you are waiting until level 8 (!) until you get your second attack. Even if you are in a game where the DM assures you that you are going all the way up to level 20 (and that it won't be one of those cases where 80-90% of the game is spent on levels 1-12 and then you sidelong rush to 20 just to do it), you still have to survive to get to level 8 where your combo starts taking off.

To me it sounds like a great concept for a replacement character you bring in at level X (8+) after your existing character dies off for good or is retired. However, playing it from level 1 sounds like an exercise in frustrated waiting to finally be rewarded for your diligent min-maxing... at some point (while the player of the 2-weapon fighting barbarian or evoker wizard or other non-optimized build has been having fun since level 1).

You are certainly not wrong about the on-paper power of the build. Great theory-crafting!

I hear you, but many builds come online little bit late, like 6/14 Sorcadins or Padlocks etc. Which go all way to level 6 with first class and then multiclass. If you know your characters will see levels 16+ I don't think it's that bad.

And I said I said, we could go 4 levels of Hexblade for ASI. This would give us Elven Accuracy + Sharpshooter on level 9 vs level 8 if we went pure Fighter. That is only 1 level lost. It's level lost then. Pure fighter with Elven Accuracy also wouldn't get Sharpshooter till level 8.

But the difference between Fighter 5/Hexblade 1-4 and between Fighter 5-8 is that first one has access to Agonizing Blast, Shield, Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade etc. Fighter Longbow build would come online 1 level earlier but before that you have way more tools with Hexblade. We would still be better melee character than non-GWM Fighter at this point.

And at level 9 the 5/4 will skyrocket as much stronger than level 8 Fighter as we have way to have constant advantage on Sharpshooter attacks.

So I know where you are coming from, but I think a solution is to just take 4 levels instead of 3 of Hexblade to speed up ASI. We lose Action Surge on level 20, but let's be honest- it's not like you play a lot after getting Level 20. If at all.

[Catullus64]

Are you determined that the build be non-melee? Because the final clause of Hex Warrior means that Elven Accuracy can be used with Great Weapon Master, which opens up the lovely combo of Eldritch Smite + Great Weapon Fighting. The build can remain otherwise identical, with the only significant losses being +2 to hit (less of a problem with EA's super-advantage) and whichever invocation you drop for Eldritch Smite (probably Improved Pact Weapon, which you yourself admit is disposable.)

Also, am I missing something, or isn't Pact of the Blade only usable to create melee weapons? I thought the Invocation that made it a longbow was still UA only. That may seem like pedantry when you have longbow proficiency from Fighter, but a longbow has the two-handed property, and thus can't be used with Hex Warrior for Charisma synergy unless it's a Pact-created weapon.

[Mitsu]

Are you determined that the build be non-melee? Because the final clause of Hex Warrior means that Elven Accuracy can be used with Great Weapon Master, which opens up the lovely combo of Eldritch Smite + Great Weapon Fighting. The build can remain otherwise identical, with the only significant losses being +2 to hit (less of a problem with EA's super-advantage) and whichever invocation you drop for Eldritch Smite (probably Improved Pact Weapon, which you yourself admit is disposable.)

Also, am I missing something, or isn't Pact of the Blade only usable to create melee weapons? I thought the Invocation that made it a longbow was still UA only. That may seem like pedantry when you have longbow proficiency from Fighter, but a longbow has the two-handed property, and thus can't be used with Hex Warrior for Charisma synergy unless it's a Pact-created weapon.

From what I see from OP post it's invocation that allow you to use it for range:

"Improved Pact Weapon

Prerequisite: Pact of the Blade feature

You can use any weapon you summon with your Pact of the Blade feature as a spellcasting focus for your warlock spells.

In addition, the weapon gains a +1 bonus to its attack and damage rolls, unless it is a magic weapon that already has a bonus to those rolls.

Finally, the weapon you conjure can be a shortbow, longbow, light crossbow, or heavy crossbow."

[Mitsu]

Nice build, but I think Elven Accuracy is wasted here due to fact that to only damage die you will double on crits will be 1d8 from Longbow. Both +5 stat bonus and +10 from SS won't be affected by your crits. Imo it's little waste on Elven Accuracy as Archery + constant advantage from Darkness/Devil's Sight and Samurai would be enough to hit with SS. Elven Accuracy is crit fish feat imo.

So What I would suggest is maybe focus more on range NOVA instead of DPR. For DPR I think Vuman with starting Xbow Expert (same build with Hexblade) would be better while also using Darkness Combo.

However, we could go for more Nova to use that Elven accuracy with 3 Fighter/17 Hexblade build instead.

Easier Progression:

So you start as Hexblade, go straight 8 levels for Elven Accuracy + Sharpshooter. You have Darkness + Devil's Sight combo, you will have extra attack from invocation and advantage from Darkness combo. You have everything you need for this level as basic sniper.

However, what we do is we grab: Eldritch Smite which allows you to smite using your slots for 1d8 force + 1d8 per slot level. At level 8 that is 5d8, which we will use only on crit so it's 10d8 bonus force Nova on one of your shots.

With Improved Pact Weapon invocation- you can use smites with range pact weapon!

Now we take 3 levels dip into Samurai Fighter and we get Archery style (just 1 level after you got Sharpshooter), Action Surge and Fighting Spirit for advantage. And continue Hexblade.

Access to huge Nova:

At level 16 you will have 3 x 5th level slots. One slot will go on Darkness or Shadow of Moil but 2 you will have for 600 ft (or 120 ft in Darkness) 12d8 Nova on crits.

But you can also use Fighting Spirit instead and burn all 3 x 5th level slots on crits for 3 x 12d8 Smites! From even 600 feet!

Sure we end up with only 2 attacks per turn (+ Action surge) but I feel we use Elven Accuracy to it's fullest much more now. With your build we would have 3 attacks with advantage but no access to utilize crits. Here you can suddenly Nova target on level 16 for additional 12d8 damage on crit. And with Elven Accuracy + Curse you should crit quite a lot in a fight. And you recharge that on short rest.

On level 20 you get 4 x 5th level slots, so 3 x 6d8 Smites on range (12d8 on crits).

It's basicelly a Pact Sniper :). I think I will make a guide for this build :D

[Skylivedk]

Are you sure it's worth crit fishing at all when you have no riders? In what I have seen, elven accuracy is very often overrated. At the very least, I'd go crossbow expert and/or Sharpshooter before elven accuracy.

As it looks, I think you'd get more from EK11/hexblade5/sorc4 (or something like it) with SS longbow and quickened EB potentially with hex and Baleful Curse and crit smites.

Baleful Curse has a short range, which is worth keeping in mind.

[Mitsu]

Are you sure it's worth crit fishing at all when you have no riders? In what I have seen, elven accuracy is very often overrated. At the very least, I'd go crossbow expert and/or Sharpshooter before elven accuracy.

As it looks, I think you'd get more from EK11/hexblade5/sorc4 (or something like it) with SS longbow and quickened EB potentially with hex and Baleful Curse and crit smites.

Baleful Curse has a short range, which is worth keeping in mind.

What do you mean by "riders"? Elven Accuracy is not overrated if you have constant advantage. It works great on range character because you just sit save behind and drop triple d20 dices and enemy can hardly break your concentration because not many things have such range of attacks. Not only you are super far away but they attack you with disadvantage most of the time. Imo Elven Accuracy is overrated on gish melee builds as there are better ways to utilize concentration in melee than Darkness and Darkness also negatively affect your allies. Range character doesn't have that problem, they can just sit in Darkness no problem on back line.

EK 11/Hexblade 5/Sorc 4 would be super delayed when it comes to "full" potential. You would get Pack longbow on level 14 and you wouldn't be able to quicken E-Blast till 16 at least (if EK 11/Hex 3/Sorc 2).

On the other hand my build above comes full online at level 11. You have Nova, SAD CHA, Pact Longbow, Action Surge, Archery, Darkness combo, everything.

And you are already SAD CHA, extra attack, Longbow Archer with Elven Accuracy and Sharpshooter on level 8. Level 8 invocations: Devil's Sight, Improved Pact Weapon, Smite and Extra attack.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm not entirely sure what people are saying about the build not "coming online" by a late level.

Focus on using Dexterity, not Charisma, to keep your AC high. Whether or not you're starting out as a Hexblade or a Samurai, you're still an optimized ranged damage dealer, capable of dealing high damage. Elven Accuracy grants its benefit from any source of advantage, so either you're a Samurai who can guarantee advantage, or a Hexblade who gets more out of Advantage when he gets it, either way it's a solid choice.

Fine, the combo doesn't come online until level 8, but at what point are you less than any other Dexterity-based Hexblade or Samurai?

[Willie the Duck]

I'm not entirely sure what people are saying about the build not "coming online" by a late level.

Well, if you are referring to me, I made it very clear. If you want to play a hexblade with a high Dex, that's fine, but then it does detract from the general reason why people choose hexblade in the first place (relative SAD). There are other potential incentives. Short-rest based sources of advantage (on top of the Samurai's long-rest based ones) is definitely a real benefit, but so is not having a multiple level delay in each extra attack.


Fine, the combo doesn't come online until level 8, but at what point are you less than any other Dexterity-based Hexblade or Samurai?

Either extra attack is moved from level 5 to 8 (compared to other fighters), or getting your cha as your weapon attack stat (which, yes, you do not have to focus on when taking hexblade) is delayed to level 8.

[Man_Over_Game]

Either extra attack is moved from level 5 to 8 (compared to other fighters), or getting your cha as your weapon attack stat (which, yes, you do not have to focus on when taking hexblade) is delayed to level 8.

Couldn't you just take 5 levels of Dexterity Warlock before taking Fighter levels, or taking 5 levels of Fighter before taking Warlock?

[Skylivedk]

What do you mean by "riders"? Elven Accuracy is not overrated if you have constant advantage. It works great on range character because you just sit save behind and drop triple d20 dices and enemy can hardly break your concentration because not many things have such range of attacks. Not only you are super far away but they attack you with disadvantage most of the time. Imo Elven Accuracy is overrated on gish melee builds as there are better ways to utilize concentration in melee than Darkness and Darkness also negatively affect your allies. Range character doesn't have that problem, they can just sit in Darkness no problem on back line.

EK 11/Hexblade 5/Sorc 4 would be super delayed when it comes to "full" potential. You would get Pack longbow on level 14 and you wouldn't be able to quicken E-Blast till 16 at least (if EK 11/Hex 3/Sorc 2).

On the other hand my build above comes full online at level 11. You have Nova, SAD CHA, Pact Longbow, Action Surge, Archery, Darkness combo, everything.

And you are already SAD CHA, extra attack, Longbow Archer with Elven Accuracy and Sharpshooter on level 8. Level 8 invocations: Devil's Sight, Improved Pact Weapon, Smite and Extra attack.

I was answering OP (just saw your build as I finished this post). We seem to agree, based on your build with Hexblade as a main, that elven accuracy is not fantastic in the case of OP.

Riders are what comes on top of your hit (riding your hits). Smite, sneak attack, BB, manoeuvres, etc.

Elven Accuracy is not fantastic without good crits and good crits need riders (11% more to hit from my last Google search; better against certain ranges than others). Your SS damage doesn't benefit from crits, nor does your Baleful Curse or your improved pact weapon.

At level four you'd probably prefer (with your, @OP, build) to have crossbow expert. It's an extra attack and no disadvantage in melee. Heck, Sharpshooter is probably better as well. Ignore cover: great. No range restrictions: also great. -5/+10 = slaughter.

[Mitsu]

I was answering OP (just saw your build as I finished this post). We seem to agree, based on your build with Hexblade as a main, that elven accuracy is not fantastic in the case of OP.

Riders are what comes on top of your hit (riding your hits). Smite, sneak attack, BB, manoeuvres, etc.

Elven Accuracy is not fantastic without good crits and good crits need riders (11% more to hit from my last Google search; better against certain ranges than others). Your SS damage doesn't benefit from crits, nor does your Baleful Curse or your improved pact weapon.

At level four you'd probably prefer (with your, @OP, build) to have crossbow expert. It's an extra attack and no disadvantage in melee. Heck, Sharpshooter is probably better as well. Ignore cover: great. No range restrictions: also great. -5/+10 = slaughter.

Agreed. Elven Accuracy without "riders" is imo totally wasted. That is why access to any Nova is in my opinion Crucial. Range Nova is quite potent due to fact of save position. And E-Smite is great due to short rests. It could also work with Rogue, especially Assassin.

Another build I would consider for abusing Elven Accuracy would be Another one would be Gloom Stalker 3/Fighter 2/Assassin 15 for:

"Assassinate

Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit. "

or Gloom Stalker/Hexblade for:

"Dread Ambusher

At 3rd level, you master the art of the ambush. You can give yourself a bonus to your initiative rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier.

At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 feet, which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type."

And combining that with Action Surge in first turn.

Gloom Stalker or Assassin/Hexblade would also work.


As long as you have access to any sort of Nova (Smite, Sneak Attack etc.) there is a huge potential in Elven Accuracy combined with range attacks

[TheUser]

How do you feel about Sorcerer 7, Samurai 12, Hexblade 1?

Start sorcerer and immediately switch gears to Samurai, taking 1 level of Hexblade at level 7 (after extra attack) and then have 12 levels of Samurai.

Why? Well there will be 3 rounds a day your bonus action goes to Fighting Spirit but the many other rounds you don't you can quicken spells.

Moreover, you can take resillient Dex and have proficiency in Dex, Con, Wis and Cha saves. A great spread of rock solid saves.

3 attacks and a bonus action spell is a great use of a turn outside of fighting spirit + action surge rounds. Level 7 sorcerer gives access to haste (4 attacks per round) and access to spells like absorb elements, stoneskin, dispel magic and counter spell.

I thought it was a neat alternative.

[Citan]

Hmm... Guys?

Just so you know, this kind of topic was already talked about not long ago. And I did put in those threads the components of the best archer.

From memory it was as such.

1. Sustainable nova with good enough accuracy.
Whisper Bard 10 / Hexblade Blade Warlock 3 is the chassis. Bard for 5d8 damage once/turn five times every short rest, in addition to all spell casting (Elemental Weapon, Swift Quiver, Circle of Power, Greater Invisibility, Hunter's Mark, pick your poison).
Obviously pick Elven Accuracy and Lucky.

Finish in different ways:
- Bard all the way (Simulacrum and even better nova damage) or mix whatever between...
- Warlock 5-9: for extreme single target single turn damage thanks to "short-rest slot as smite".
- Battlemaster Fighter 3: for Archery, Action Surge and Precision attack.
- War Cleric 2: for that short-rest +10 on one attack, perfect for nova.
- Grave Cleric 2 (to pair with Action Surge definitely): to double all damage thanks to vulnerability.
- Devotion Paladin 3 (to pair with Action Surge for best benefit): to completely offset Sharpshooter malus so you can get extra damage even against high AC targets.
- Horizon Walker Ranger 3 to make next attack all force damage (which means you won't care about enemy resistance/immunity).
- Assassin Rogue 3: advantage + autocrit, what else to ask? :)

2. (One of the) Most reliable damage dealer without need for advantage shenanigans.
Kensei monk 11 / Fighter 2 / Devotion Paladin 3 / (Hexblade Warlock 3).
This is a wonky build to make for sure, and the crazy madness means you'll start probably as a human or be ready to have frail stats. Start Fighter 1 (Archery), then immediately Kensei up to 6 (magic damage) bumping CHA on the way, then Paladin 2 (Bless) then probably Fighter 2 (Action Surge), then Paladin 3 (Sacred Weapon) then Warlock 3 or Monk 11 depending on taste.

From level 2 to 10 you are a Kensei Monk with less mobility, Ki shenanigans and crappy AC (unless you forget about mobility), but much better accuracy, and on the latter half you are a powerhouse of hitting any mark you have in your sight.

Of course, dedicating a character that is Monk in essence to be only ranged can be argued as a waste of potential (as well as overkill investment for most of encounters). But that was besides the point of that theorycraft. :)

Otherwise, a simple Hexblade Warlock 5 / Paladin Devotion 4 / Eldricht Knight 11 will be largely enough (Bless / Elemental Weapon / Hold Person with Eldricht Strike). :)


3. (Probably, but not sure actually, my brain is a mess) solo top nova damage without regard to resource consumption.
You'll need...
- To make attack autocrit: easiest way is considering you'll be a master of ambush, meaning Rogue 3: Assassin (2d6 Sneak Attack, Expertise in Stealth).
- To make attack with vulnerability: meaning you'll need Grave Cleric 2.
- To make that attack in the same turn as Grave's Channel Divinity (not technically necessary but much easier to avoid mess), you'll need Fighter 2.
So far we are char level 7.
- To make all that happen while keeping the element of surprise, you'll need Invisibility (because Cleric's CD is only 30 feet away).
- To make that attack count (which means since Cleric is done already, we cannot count on War Channel Divinity) you'll need a way to buff your accuracy. Investing into Paladin for one shot is too much, especially since we want to rack in damage.
Best bet is probably Fighter 3 / 5 Battlemaster (Extra Attack + Precision Manoeuver = more chance).
And since we are already in a close-range department...
Just go Hexblade Warlock 5 with Whispers Bard 3: you get Invisibility to cast with a long-rest slot, another 2d6, AND you can cast Shadow Blade and throw it.

...
...
...
Yeah, it's a big mess right? Why not rely on party tactics instead? :smallbiggrin:
Just have a Grave Cleric in your group (with Alert and high DEX though to get comparable Initiative), someone that can help you hit, and be a plain Rogue.
Or have a Diviner Wizard in party that can simply apply a Hold Person / Hold Monster with high chance of success against most creatures.
Or be simply a Whispers/Swords Bard that uses up a Wish Simulacrum every day to boost him with buffs, notably Haste / Tenser's Transformation.