New campaign starting soon, want to be a Barbarian. Is bear totem really important?

[samcifer]

So I was thinking of being a barbarian for a few levels, but after lv. 5, Totem Barbarian seems lackluster compared to other paths. Is the increased range of resistances really that important to have if I multi-class to another class (such as fighter or monk)? How much more useful would it be over Zealot's added damage and access to radiant damage?

[Bloodcloud]

It's useful and powerfull for sure. It is absolutely not mandatory. It odes get better at higher level when weird damage type become more common.

I would advise against multiclassing with monk.

Build a fun character and don't intentionnaly gimp it, you should do fine.

[Man_Over_Game]

Different builds, different goals.

Zealot is best for a party that lacks damage and has a few means of resurrecting someone (like a Paladin's Revivify).
Totem is best when you need to work on mobility or defense. Bear in particular doesn't do anything but not die, and works well with a team of mostly ranged combatants (since most enemies will be focusing on you), or in a group who doesn't have access to Counterspell (so you aren't dropped easily by a Fireball or something).
Ancestral Guardian is best when you have multiple characters you need to protect and they have the means of healing you.

If you're going Monk, I'd recommend choosing either Barbarian or Monk to be the focus, as doing both will result in being pretty subpar. Because of the fact that Rage is incredibly powerful without much investment, I'd recommend going Monk as the primary class for a build like this, choosing a Monk archetype that doesn't use Wisdom (Kensei, Drunken Master). Barbarian subclasses for this build (if you level into Barbarian that much), should rely on abusing the Monk's mobility, like Ancestral Guardian (Taunt and run away).

Or, for a Monk-like feel for a Barbarian, just go straight Barbarian, use two weapons (good with Rage), and grab the Mobile feat.

[samcifer]

Different builds, different goals.

Zealot is best for a party that lacks damage and has a few means of resurrecting someone (like a Paladin's Revivify).
Totem is best when you need to work on mobility or defense. Bear in particular doesn't do anything but not die, and works well with a team of mostly ranged combatants (since most enemies will be focusing on you), or in a group who doesn't have access to Counterspell (so you aren't dropped easily by a Fireball or something).
Ancestral Guardian is best when you have multiple characters you need to protect and they have the means of healing you.

If you're going Monk, I'd recommend choosing either Barbarian or Monk to be the focus, as doing both will result in being pretty subpar. Because of the fact that Rage is incredibly powerful without much investment, I'd recommend going Monk as the primary class for a build like this, choosing a Monk archetype that doesn't use Wisdom (Kensei, Drunken Master). Barbarian subclasses for this build (if you level into Barbarian that much), should rely on abusing the Monk's mobility, like Ancestral Guardian (Taunt and run away).

Or, for a Monk-like feel for a Barbarian, just go straight Barbarian, use two weapons (good with Rage), and grab the Mobile feat.

Well, one other player in my group has said he's thinking of being a paladin for this campaign. I want to play a barbarian because I think that, assuming I get any actual chances to rp, I could really enjoy playing as one. I was thinking of a Tigtone-kind of personality and he has a journal h writes in every day in spite of not knowing how to read or write. If anyone were to open his journal, it would look as if a baby had been scribbling all over the pages, but that's because he created his own written language that's based on how he thinks spoken words look like as drawn lines. If one were to cast Comprehend Language and read his journal, they'd be shocked to see that it reads in a shakespear-ian quality of writing like some best selling novel. :D

I would also be the kind of barbarian who, when guards/soldiers come to us and we need to talk our way out of trouble, would offer to talk to them. "I know just what to say," I'd tell the others. "This is the time for diplomacy, not violence!" another party member would say. "I can be diplomatic!" I tell them sarcastically, approach the guards, hit the first one and cry "Kill them all!" "How is that diplomatic?!?" ally asks. "I never said I was going to BE diplomatic, just that I now how!"

[Genoin]

Bear is a very powerful option for tankiness, for sure, but definitely not mandatory. I would say that if you are doing something like AL with it, or don't know what other classes you will be playing with, Bear Totem will probably get you the best value overall. A lot of the other options depend more on your group composition. Do you have any idea what the other players in your campaign will be playing?

[samcifer]

Bear is a very powerful option for tankiness, for sure, but definitely not mandatory. I would say that if you are doing something like AL with it, or don't know what other classes you will be playing with, Bear Totem will probably get you the best value overall. A lot of the other options depend more on your group composition. Do you have any idea what the other players in your campaign will be playing?

We only play home-brewed campaigns, so it's an anything goes kind of situation.

[Unoriginal]

You don't have to pick the same Totem animal each time, you know? You could select a different animal each time you have a thing to pick.

[Genoin]

*snip* he has a journal h writes in every day in spite of not knowing how to read or write. If anyone were to open his journal, it would look as if a baby had been scribbling all over the pages, but that's because he created his own written language that's based on how he thinks spoken words look like as drawn lines. *snip*

I don't know if you have ever watched the show, but this is basically how Charlie (who is illiterate) from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia writes, though instead of only pictures his also includes some words (usually horribly misspelled).


We only play home-brewed campaigns, so it's an anything goes kind of situation.

So, do you mean homebrew as in the plot/setting of the campaign, or as in homebrew classes/races/other character options, or both? You mentioned a possible Paladin, any ideas on the rest of the group? If you are talking homebrewed classes, there is very little advice we can give you regarding what subclass will fit in with your group best. I think the best answer to the OP has already been given though, Bear Totem is strong, but by no means is it required.

[samcifer]

I don't know if you have ever watched the show, but this is basically how Charlie (who is illiterate) from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia writes, though instead of only pictures his also includes some words (usually horribly misspelled).



So, do you mean homebrew as in the plot/setting of the campaign, or as in homebrew classes/races/other character options, or both? You mentioned a possible Paladin, any ideas on the rest of the group? If you are talking homebrewed classes, there is very little advice we can give you regarding what subclass will fit in with your group best. I think the best answer to the OP has already been given though, Bear Totem is strong, but by no means is it required.

the campaigns are homebrewed. The new dm is allowing UA content, so one player will be a paladin/brute fighter

I was also leaning towards going champion fighter for the first 6 levels and get PM and GWM (might be a variant human and either take a stat boost if I need to for lv. 4 or 8 and PM as the lv. 1 feat), then go Barbarian for levels 1-3+. If I did that, I could just go to barb 3 and take totem, then either go back to fighter or maybe branch out into a third class like rogue for out of combat abilities.

[GlenSmash!]

I prefer Zealot for damage and Ancestral guardian for Tanking.

Totem comes in third for my Barbarian preferences and I'd strongly consider Wolf over Bear if I have a Fighter, Melee Rogue, or especially Paladin in the Party.

But Zealot is my favorite. the 14+ capstone is glorious, and every 2 levels adds a point of Radiant damage pretty much every round of combat. Level 6 is like a mini lucky for saves, and level 10 is just an awesome party boost.

[Genoin]

If you are only dipping 3 levels of Barbarian, I would wholeheartedly recommend Bear Totem or Wolf Totem (if you have either 2 OTHER melee characters or a melee Rogue)

[samcifer]

What about resistance to damage from bites, claws, and tail attacks as well as weapon attacks from creatures? Pit fiends have come up a few times and I'm worried about facing them.

[Man_Over_Game]

What about resistance to damage from bites, claws, and tail attacks as well as weapon attacks from creatures? Pit fiends have come up a few times and I'm worried about facing them.

Most of those things deal Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeoning damage anyway. Most higher level versions of those creatures deal magic damage, which the standard Rage can resist. The Bear totem resistance usually blocks damage from spells, but the normal Rage does fine against anything else.

[samcifer]

Most of those things deal Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeoning damage anyway. Most higher level versions of those creatures deal magic damage, which the standard Rage can resist. The Bear totem resistance usually blocks damage from spells, but the normal Rage does fine against anything else.

Okay good, that was what I was wondering... if the extra resistances were too important to give up on by going as something besides bear totem. I like the extra damage and radiant damage from Zealot better and would fit the character's passionate personality better.

[Willie the Duck]

You don't have to pick the same Totem animal each time, you know? You could select a different animal each time you have a thing to pick.

I don't see that the OP commented on this. OP, do you realize that you do not have to pick the same totem each time you get a totem benefit?

[samcifer]

I don't see that the OP commented on this. OP, do you realize that you do not have to pick the same totem each time you get a totem benefit?

I know, but tiger is the only useful pick at lv. 6 of what's available. I wish they'd release more totem options. My main goal for the character in combat is both high damage with a glaive, PM and GWM for 3 attacks with advantage, so I'll also need a fair bit of survivability. I might take the Toughness feat at some point for extra hp to last longer assuming I don't need to bump up a stat instead.

[jaappleton]

So I was thinking of being a barbarian for a few levels, but after lv. 5, Totem Barbarian seems lackluster compared to other paths. Is the increased range of resistances really that important to have if I multi-class to another class (such as fighter or monk)? How much more useful would it be over Zealot's added damage and access to radiant damage?

So, you want to Barbarian with the best of ‘em.

I’m going to sit down here and pull a Citan (fellow forum user, love that guy), and give you really well thought out analysis and break down various intricacies for you. By the end of my post, I think you’ll really have a full understanding of your best options.

Alrighty, here goes:

HIT IT WITH A €{%<?¥£ AXE!

But sincerely, let’s begin:

Barbarians. Biggest hit dice in the game, capable of taking and dishing out massive amounts of damage like they live and die for it. Mostly because... that’s exactly what they live and die for.

Totem Warrior. A very solid, well rounded path to walk. Bear or Wolf is the most important choice at level 3. The other animal totems might as well not even exist for the purposes of this choice. While it’s utterly awesome to take a Fireball to the face like it didn’t even tickle you vía Bear, it’s entirely possible your party would benefit more from Wolf. It really depends on the rest of the party. Melee oriented Paladins, Fighters, Rogues, etc would love someone granting Advantage on their attacks. If you can create some synergy with other melee oriented allies, strongly consider Wolf. If you’re going to be essentially by your lonesome up on the front lines, go Bear.

Now, Level 6? You don’t have to pick the same option you did at lv3. You can go Bear / Eagle if you want. Here at lv6, if your race didn’t get Darkvision, strongly consider taking Eagle. The length you can see clearly is without question utterly amazing. You can clearly see something a mile away. You can see the enemy gathering their weapons because they spotted you, or setting up a last minute ambush as you approach. Don’t sleep on Eagle, it’s great.

Now, Bear might seem lackluster here. Until you realize what it means. Everything gets doubled. Pushing, pulling, lifting. Pushing open a door? You essentially double your Athletics check to slam your shoulder into it in an attempt to break it down. Your 18 becomes a 36. And if you’re a Goliath or another race with Powerful Build, you were already st 36. Now your roll of 18 is considered 72. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, DUNGEON MASTER.

After those levels? Don’t worry too much. It’s all gravy. Plus, seriously, don’t look too hard at Capstone abilities because most campaigns never reach them.

Now... To the Zealot.

Radiance is pretty much tied with Force for the best damage type. I give a slight edge to Radiance because it messes up Undead. You can deal extra damage, reroll saving throws at lv6, and keep fighting well past the time you should’ve croaked by the end of it. While not as versatile as Totem, Zealot is tough to beat if you want to smash faces as hard as you can.

You need to decide what your role is: Tank and help allies while bashing faces (Totem), or utterly decimate faces so hard that they can’t harm your allies (Zealot).

[samcifer]

So, you want to Barbarian with the best of ‘em.

I’m going to sit down here and pull a Citan (fellow forum user, love that guy), and give you really well thought out analysis and break down various intricacies for you. By the end of my post, I think you’ll really have a full understanding of your best options.

Alrighty, here goes:

HIT IT WITH A €{%<?¥£ AXE!

But sincerely, let’s begin:

Barbarians. Biggest hit dice in the game, capable of taking and dishing out massive amounts of damage like they live and die for it. Mostly because... that’s exactly what they live and die for.

Totem Warrior. A very solid, well rounded path to walk. Bear or Wolf is the most important choice at level 3. The other animal totems might as well not even exist for the purposes of this choice. While it’s utterly awesome to take a Fireball to the face like it didn’t even tickle you vía Bear, it’s entirely possible your party would benefit more from Wolf. It really depends on the rest of the party. Melee oriented Paladins, Fighters, Rogues, etc would love someone granting Advantage on their attacks. If you can create some synergy with other melee oriented allies, strongly consider Wolf. If you’re going to be essentially by your lonesome up on the front lines, go Bear.

Now, Level 6? You don’t have to pick the same option you did at lv3. You can go Bear / Eagle if you want. Here at lv6, if your race didn’t get Darkvision, strongly consider taking Eagle. The length you can see clearly is without question utterly amazing. You can clearly see something a mile away. You can see the enemy gathering their weapons because they spotted you, or setting up a last minute ambush as you approach. Don’t sleep on Eagle, it’s great.

Now, Bear might seem lackluster here. Until you realize what it means. Everything gets doubled. Pushing, pulling, lifting. Pushing open a door? You essentially double your Athletics check to slam your shoulder into it in an attempt to break it down. Your 18 becomes a 36. And if you’re a Goliath or another race with Powerful Build, you were already st 36. Now your roll of 18 is considered 72. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, DUNGEON MASTER.

After those levels? Don’t worry too much. It’s all gravy. Plus, seriously, don’t look too hard at Capstone abilities because most campaigns never reach them.

Now... To the Zealot.

Radiance is pretty much tied with Force for the best damage type. I give a slight edge to Radiance because it messes up Undead. You can deal extra damage, reroll saving throws at lv6, and keep fighting well past the time you should’ve croaked by the end of it. While not as versatile as Totem, Zealot is tough to beat if you want to smash faces as hard as you can.

You need to decide what your role is: Tank and help allies while bashing faces (Totem), or utterly decimate faces so hard that they can’t harm your allies (Zealot).

Okay, I missed the part on how lv. 6 eagle granted darkvision, which would really be handy as i was wanting to be a variant human. The wording on it is a bit tricky, imo.

[Unoriginal]

I know, but tiger is the only useful pick at lv. 6 of what's available.

Well, it means you have no doubt on what to take if you decide to take the class up to lvl 6.

[samcifer]

Well, it means you have no doubt on what to take if you decide to take the class up to lvl 6.

But then I learned how Eagle at lv. 6 grants the equivalent of darkvision, which my variant human would be lacking, making it more appealing now to go to lv. 6 totem barb on my character.

[monkey3]

I am not seeing how Eagle vision = Darkvision.

Eagle: dim light doesn't impose disadvantage on your Wisdom (Perception) checks.

Darkvison: See in darkness as if the darkness were dim light, so areas of darkness are only lightly obscured as far as that creature is concerned.

Eagle vision has no effect on darkness.

[Man_Over_Game]

I am not seeing how Eagle vision = Darkvision.

Eagle: dim light doesn't impose disadvantage on your Wisdom (Perception) checks.

Darkvison: See in darkness as if the darkness were dim light, so areas of darkness are only lightly obscured as far as that creature is concerned.

Eagle vision has no effect on darkness.

Darkvision does two things: Normal Dim Lighting is now Bright Lighting, and pitch darkness in a radius around you is now treated as Dim Lighting.

Eagle does: Dim Lighting is now Bright Lighting.

A lot of people miss the second part about Darkvision and what it exactly means.

[alchahest]

Now, Bear might seem lackluster here. Until you realize what it means. Everything gets doubled. Pushing, pulling, lifting. Pushing open a door? You essentially double your Athletics check to slam your shoulder into it in an attempt to break it down. Your 18 becomes a 36. And if you’re a Goliath or another race with Powerful Build, you were already st 36. Now your roll of 18 is considered 72. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, DUNGEON MASTER.



I'm not sure you're fully aware of what "Advantage" on a roll means. you don't just double your score. You roll two dice and take the higher, or, if something is giving you disadvantage, you instead roll a single die instead of two and taking lowest. In addition, while raging you already have this bonus (and it applies even more more broadly, to all strength ability checks and saves).
Doubling the actual maximum weight is cool but completely not what your post is suggesting either.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm not sure you're fully aware of what "Advantage" on a roll means. you don't just double your score. You roll two dice and take the higher, or, if something is giving you disadvantage, you instead roll a single die instead of two and taking lowest. In addition, while raging you already have this bonus (and it applies even more more broadly, to all strength ability checks and saves).
Doubling the actual maximum weight is cool but completely not what your post is suggesting either.

Very accurate.

The average of rolling a 1d20 is 10.5

The average of rolling 2d20, keeping the high roll (AKA Advantage), is about 15.

Advantage basically means granting the roll a +5 average.

[samcifer]

Darkvision does two things: Normal Dim Lighting is now Bright Lighting, and pitch darkness in a radius around you is now treated as Dim Lighting.

Eagle does: Dim Lighting is now Bright Lighting.

A lot of people miss the second part about Darkvision and what it exactly means.

Okay, so I'd only be at a disadvantage in total darkness (non-magical) and not in dim light. Got it.

[Man_Over_Game]

Okay, so I'd only be at a disadvantage in total darkness (non-magical) and not in dim light. Got it.

Only if you have actual Darkvision. Eagle vision just makes it so that you can see better when you have a little bit of lighting, but doesn't actually help you see in pitch black darkness.

[LudicSavant]

So I was thinking of being a barbarian for a few levels, but after lv. 5, Totem Barbarian seems lackluster compared to other paths. Is the increased range of resistances really that important to have if I multi-class to another class (such as fighter or monk)? How much more useful would it be over Zealot's added damage and access to radiant damage?

Bear totem is by no means mandatory.

Personally I think Zealot is a little better overall (at least single classed, not sure what you have in mind for your multiclass). As a Barbarian I feel I generally already have enough hit points either way, and want to be able to exert more pressure or make more saving throws (which, incidentally, will also decrease your damage taken from elemental attacks in many cases). And if enemies focus you so much that you actually die as a Zealot, your team probably had free reign to safely wipe them all out, and got to revive you without using material components.

[jaappleton]

I'm not sure you're fully aware of what "Advantage" on a roll means. you don't just double your score. You roll two dice and take the higher, or, if something is giving you disadvantage, you instead roll a single die instead of two and taking lowest. In addition, while raging you already have this bonus (and it applies even more more broadly, to all strength ability checks and saves).
Doubling the actual maximum weight is cool but completely not what your post is suggesting either.

While I’m fully aware of what Advantage means, I forgot that only máximum carrying capacity is doubled. Been a bit since I read it, I thought all of the areas Bear 6 impacts were doubled.

My bad. Screwed that one up.

[LudicSavant]

Some thoughts on the various totems as a veteran tank:

Level 3:
- Bear totem will make you take less damage from certain things, like dragonbreath and spellcasters. But generally smart spellcasters will want to cast disabling spells on you anyways. Definitely still a good ability, but I don't think it overshadows other options. Even a vanilla Barbarian is pretty durable and smart enemies will often prefer to target other allies first if you're not keeping up the pressure.

- Eagle Totem gives you some mobility, which is pretty important for Barbarians since their options at range aren't all that, and little is more painful for a Barbarian than spending a turn out of range. Unfortunately there's one thing that really bugs me about Eagle's Level 3: It takes a bonus action, and Rage takes a bonus action. The turn I care MOST about mobility is usually the turn I enter rage, and I can't use Eagle on that turn! :smallfrown:

- Elk totem is an alternative to Eagle Totem. While the bonus is 15 feet, I can use it without consuming my bonus action, and it allows me to use it on the turn I rage. Also synergizes more with buffs like Haste which might end up being cast on you. 55 move speed ain't bad at all. For perspective, that's the base move speed of a level 15 Monk.

In addition to getting you into range, extra movement speed also synergizes very well with grappling, since you can drag people across more Spike Growth or whatever you like. And since your bonus action is free you can use stuff like Tavern Brawler.

- Wolf totem is a party combo machine. If you have the right party composition it is lovely. If you don't it's not.

- Do not take Tiger totem. If you want more mobility take Elk or Eagle instead.

Level 6:
- Bear: Usually a Barbarian already has enough carrying capacity. And if you really want Advantage on lifting things, rage gives that already. May have some off-the-book uses for dropping very heavy objects on things, but this is very DM-dependent.

- Wolf: Trap option if SCAG is available. Elk level 6 provides all of the benefits of Wolf level plus more. This may not be immediately obvious to some people, but if you check you'll notice that all of Wolf's benefits are basically doing stuff that would require a Slow travel speed at a Normal or Fast travel speed. You know what Elk does? It makes your Slow travel speed equal to a Wolf barbarian's Fast travel speed. For the entire party. So everyone can do what a Wolf Barbarian is doing while moving as fast as them or faster.

Basically, do not take Wolf. Take Elk instead if you want to do Wolf things.

- Eagle: See in the dark! Mile-long perception! These things are nice things, especially if you don't already have Darkvision. Some people sleep on Eagle. Don't sleep on Eagle. Perception is important in 5th Edition.

- Elk: See Wolf. It's basically a straight upgrade. Don't underestimate travel pace; being able to move at a Slow pace all the time (while still moving at a normal party's Fast pace) has a lot of benefits for things like the party moving stealthily, Perception checks, etc in the dungeon exploration rules.

- Tiger: Two skill proficiencies! And they're good ones, too. Not bad at all.

[samcifer]

Bear totem is by no means mandatory.

Personally I think Zealot is a little better overall (at least single classed, not sure what you have in mind for your multiclass). As a Barbarian I feel I generally already have enough hit points either way, and want to be able to exert more pressure or make more saving throws (which, incidentally, will also decrease your damage taken from elemental attacks in many cases). And if enemies focus you so much that you actually die as a Zealot, your team probably had free reign to safely wipe them all out, and got to revive you without using material components.

At this rate I'm leaning more towards at least 3 levels of Champion Fighter, maybe more. It'll depend on how bad my starting stats end up being and I have no clue what they'll be due to the dm wanting to try out a new rp system to determine our starting stats rather than rolling, point buy or set stats like we used the last time he was the dm.

[Chronos]

The big thing with Eagle at level 6 is that it gives you a capability that's not only completely unlike anything else you can do, it's also completely unlike anything that anyone else can do. Your party will very often be quite glad of your long vision telling you (and them) things they couldn't otherwise learn.

[jaappleton]

The big thing with Eagle at level 6 is that it gives you a capability that's not only completely unlike anything else you can do, it's also completely unlike anything that anyone else can do. Your party will very often be quite glad of your long vision telling you (and them) things they couldn't otherwise learn.

This.

Also, consider this: Totem lv6 is a bit boring partly because some lv3 features (Wolf and Bear) are just so. Damn. Good.

[Pex]

It's not absolutely necessary, but it is very strong. You effectively double your hit points. I'm playing one and it's common in the tough fights for me to notice I've taken over half my max in damage after a few rounds, meaning if I wasn't bear I'd have dropped. I'm not invincible. The DM knows I can be hurt by means other than damage and has done so, but I get my good share to shine in Just Will Not Drop combats absorbing the hits so that the other party members don't. The bard will often inspire me, useful to make the saving throw I need for a non-damage effect. If only the cleric player would learn to Bless more. You will not be sorry going bear.

[samcifer]

It's not absolutely necessary, but it is very strong. You effectively double your hit points. I'm playing one and it's common in the tough fights for me to notice I've taken over half my max in damage after a few rounds, meaning if I wasn't bear I'd have dropped. I'm not invincible. The DM knows I can be hurt by means other than damage and has done so, but I get my good share to shine in Just Will Not Drop combats absorbing the hits so that the other party members don't. The bard will often inspire me, useful to make the saving throw I need for a non-damage effect. If only the cleric player would learn to Bless more. You will not be sorry going bear.

Oddly we've never had anyone on the group play a bard. In the first campaign I was a sorlock along with a barbaria (totem), Champion fighter, a firbolg moon druid and a human gunsmith artificer who died and was replaced by an elven mystic.

In campaign #2, I was a tiefling evocationwizard alongside a human conjuration wizard, a half-elf gloomstalker ranger/scout rogue, a human claric (can't remember subclass, who started changing into a dwarf woman due to a slow curse from a shield), and a dragonborn paladin (unknown oath)

In the third campaign I was an assimar sorcadin (divine soul/devotion) with an assimar oathbreaker paladin who rp-ed a change into a draconic sorcerer, a human battlemaster fighter/inquisitive rogue, a half-orc champion fighter/totem barbarian, and an akroya open-hand monk.

As for playing a bard myself, I prefer a more dps-oriented playstyle and bards just aren't appealing to me.

As for this campaign, the only other pc I know of so far is a paladin/brute fighter. No idea yet what anyone else will be playing.

[LudicSavant]

The big thing with Eagle at level 6 is that it gives you a capability that's not only completely unlike anything else you can do, it's also completely unlike anything that anyone else can do. Your party will very often be quite glad of your long vision telling you (and them) things they couldn't otherwise learn.

Yeah, it's great. Folks be sleepin' on Eagle 6.

[Trampaige]

Don't take all the fighter levels before barbarian. Yes, it delays your feat and extra attack by a level, but polearm master is so profusely powerful and you'll already have 2-3 attacks per round due to bonus and reaction.

The trade off, is you spend weeks to months of real time as a fighter without the ability to rage. That isn't very fun, and the defensive abilities of rage are totally worth it.

However, the value of rage with only a barbarian dip also depends on how many combats your DM sticks between long rests. If you regularly have only 1-3 fights per long rest, you can basically rage all the time even with only two rages. If he throws lots of combat at you, you'll be regularly going without. Additionally, rage drops when incapacitated, and that sucks with only two rages.

[djreynolds]

I'm sure its been said, but you can switch totems as you go and IMO its not cheesy to do so

And for 3rd level perks, I think they are pretty good. Obviously bear works for any team combination.

You could go bear at 3rd, tiger at 6th, and eagle at 14th.

Bear totem's potential 3rd level perk is huge for higher level campaigns. I, in fact, like berserker's 6th and 14 level perks.

IMO, go bear because its the easiest

[samcifer]

Don't take all the fighter levels before barbarian. Yes, it delays your feat and extra attack by a level, but polearm master is so profusely powerful and you'll already have 2-3 attacks per round due to bonus and reaction.

The trade off, is you spend weeks to months of real time as a fighter without the ability to rage. That isn't very fun, and the defensive abilities of rage are totally worth it.

However, the value of rage with only a barbarian dip also depends on how many combats your DM sticks between long rests. If you regularly have only 1-3 fights per long rest, you can basically rage all the time even with only two rages. If he throws lots of combat at you, you'll be regularly going without. Additionally, rage drops when incapacitated, and that sucks with only two rages.

Well, I COULD go barb 5 or 6 for the first few levles, then switch to champion fighter, but the increased crit range with advantage made for some really massive damage on the half-orc barb/champion in our last campaign, esp in his were-bear form (he was bitten by a werebear and was able to wild a large broadaxe the dm ruled liet him roll an extra damage die each time he hit. In the end we were at lv. 13 and he was getting 5d12 + STR on a crit with advantage to his attack rolls and 2 attacks per turn, plus an additional 10 dmg per attack if he hit with a gwm attack.

I COULD go half-orc instead of variant human myself, but I want to have pm + gwm by lv. 4 so I have 3 attacks with advantatage and +10 dmg on a successful hit for some serious damage.

[samcifer]

If I were to go Champion 5, Barb 2, then wither way from there, I could have pm + gwm + extra attack + action surge + advantage on attack rolls with strength + critting on 19 or 20 by character lv. 7, which would be ideal, then expanded resistances on my next lvl. by going barb 3 at lvl. 8.

[LudicSavant]

Some thoughts on the various totems as a veteran tank:

Level 3:
- Bear totem will make you take less damage from certain things, like dragonbreath and spellcasters. But generally smart spellcasters will want to cast disabling spells on you anyways. Definitely still a good ability, but I don't think it overshadows other options. Even a vanilla Barbarian is pretty durable and smart enemies will often prefer to target other allies first if you're not keeping up the pressure.

- Eagle Totem gives you some mobility, which is pretty important for Barbarians since their options at range aren't all that, and little is more painful for a Barbarian than spending a turn out of range. Unfortunately there's one thing that really bugs me about Eagle's Level 3: It takes a bonus action, and Rage takes a bonus action. The turn I care MOST about mobility is usually the turn I enter rage, and I can't use Eagle on that turn! :smallfrown:

- Elk totem is an alternative to Eagle Totem. While the bonus is 15 feet, I can use it without consuming my bonus action, and it allows me to use it on the turn I rage. Also synergizes more with buffs like Haste which might end up being cast on you. 55 move speed ain't bad at all. For perspective, that's the base move speed of a level 15 Monk.

In addition to getting you into range, extra movement speed also synergizes very well with grappling, since you can drag people across more Spike Growth or whatever you like. And since your bonus action is free you can use stuff like Tavern Brawler.

- Wolf totem is a party combo machine. If you have the right party composition it is lovely. If you don't it's not.

- Do not take Tiger totem. If you want more mobility take Elk or Eagle instead.

Level 6:
- Bear: Usually a Barbarian already has enough carrying capacity. And if you really want Advantage on lifting things, rage gives that already. May have some off-the-book uses for dropping very heavy objects on things, but this is very DM-dependent.

- Wolf: Trap option if SCAG is available. Elk level 6 provides all of the benefits of Wolf level plus more. This may not be immediately obvious to some people, but if you check you'll notice that all of Wolf's benefits are basically doing stuff that would require a Slow travel speed at a Normal or Fast travel speed. You know what Elk does? It makes your Slow travel speed equal to a Wolf barbarian's Fast travel speed. For the entire party. So everyone can do what a Wolf Barbarian is doing while moving as fast as them or faster.

Basically, do not take Wolf. Take Elk instead if you want to do Wolf things.

- Eagle: See in the dark! Mile-long perception! These things are nice things, especially if you don't already have Darkvision. Some people sleep on Eagle. Don't sleep on Eagle. Perception is important in 5th Edition.

- Elk: See Wolf. It's basically a straight upgrade. Don't underestimate travel pace; being able to move at a Slow pace all the time (while still moving at a normal party's Fast pace) has a lot of benefits for things like the party moving stealthily, Perception checks, etc in the dungeon exploration rules.

- Tiger: Two skill proficiencies! And they're good ones, too. Not bad at all.

Level 14
- Eagle: Eagle 14 is a rather mixed bag. You only get flight in short bursts, and that presents a lot of practical problems that I don't think people always fully appreciate when reading the ability on paper. That Ancient Dragon is strafing you at 90 feet up, because that's their breath weapon range. An Aarakocra Sharpshooter likes to hang out around 600 feet. And other people (like Dragon Sorcs) are starting to get always-on flight around this level. Getting to such foes presents a number of complications.

First, you have to be raging to do it. Beginning a rage uses a bonus action, so on that turn you can't use an Eagle dash. You move 40 feet up and... nothing really likes to fly at 40 feet high. And even if they did, you would fall at the end of the round, taking 40 feet of falling damage and even more importantly falling prone, which hinders your movement on future turns.

Eagle is good for jumping over wall effects and such, but... well, don't expect it to actually let you chase down better flyers very well. You have been warned. Still like this one, but that's more because I don't find any of the level 14 options particularly inspiring, rather than because this one is stellar.

- Bear: This has a lot of restrictions that make it more situational than it may initially appear. You gotta be within 5 feet, in which case they already would have Disadvantage on ranged attack rolls against other creatures, and if they leave your range to go hit someone else they no longer have this penalty. And if they can't be Frightened, it doesn't work (and at this level, creatures immune to Frightened are not all that uncommon). At last it doesn't take a bonus action, though. And if you've got a Sentinel rogue buddy or something, they'll enjoy this.

- Wolf: You gotta hit something Large or smaller, which is noteworthy at high levels (Huge and Gargantuan things are a lot more common here). And you gotta use your bonus action, and the prone has to be after at least one of your attacks, rather than before. And you can't use it on the turn you begin rage (and opening fights is one of the best times to knock things prone). All that said, no saving throw or anything, and if you don't hit the attack you don't have to use the bonus action, so that's nice.

- Elk: It's a lot like Wolf, except it gives you a bit of movement and damage (1d12+5) at the cost of allowing enemies a saving throw against the effect. I think I'd rather take Wolf, since with Wolf there's no chance of wasting your bonus action.

- Tiger: If you move 20 feet or more towards a target in a straight line, you can get a bonus action melee attack. Yet another one that requires Large creature or smaller. Between all of these bonus action options I think I like Wolf the most because it can't fail, waste resources, or require situational positioning from you. Might consider this one if I wanted to be better at killing mooks though (if your party doesn't have good AoEs or the like).

[Chronos]

Remember that all barbarians resist weapon damage when raging. Bear just adds (almost) all the magical damage types to the list. So if you're like Pex and took more than half your HP, but most of it was from piercing/slashing/bludgeoning, then it wasn't Bear Totem that saved you.

[Pex]

Remember that all barbarians resist weapon damage when raging. Bear just adds (almost) all the magical damage types to the list. So if you're like Pex and took more than half your HP, but most of it was from piercing/slashing/bludgeoning, then it wasn't Bear Totem that saved you.

There's been fire damage, necrotic, cold, poison, all of it. Funny thing I haven't taken psychic yet, the only thing I can't resist. I had a blast fighting an efreet, his salamander lieutenants, and his magma mephit minions. I was completely surrounded getting clawed and burned. When the battle was over I was at half max hit points. It was a fantastic moment of heroic awesomeness.

[Sigreid]

Personally I like zealot for that "I'm to busy to die and I'll be back if I do" shtick.

[GlenSmash!]

Personally I like zealot for that "I'm to busy to die and I'll be back if I do" shtick.

Me too. It's a super neat and has a unique feel.

[Chronos]

OK, in that case, then yes, you can say that it was Bear Totem that saved you.

EDIT: Oh, and it's not too surprising that it never mattered for psychic. That's a really rare damage type, and mostly when it does show up, it's very low (but attached to some other useful effect). Compared to other cantrips, for instance, everyone effectively already has resistance vs. Vicious Mockery.

[Willie the Duck]

Personally I like zealot for that "I'm to busy to die and I'll be back if I do" shtick.


Me too. It's a super neat and has a unique feel.

It is. I'm mildly annoyed that the mechanically 'usually best choice' archetype options for a lot of classes is also the one I feel is the most thematically fun (yes, I know, one should not feel bad for playing an optimal choice, I just feel it is maybe a little more dedicated to a theme if it is also a suboptimal choice). Zealot barbarian is my favorite barbarian thematically, same with Gloom Stalker Rangers (although Horizon Walker also has a lot of flavor), and Ancients Paladins and Tempest Clerics (although these are less clearly optimal choices, mechanically, so much as one of many good choices).

[samcifer]

So how often to magical (elemental, poison, necrotic, radiant, etc.) come up in battle against monsters?

[jaappleton]

So how often to magical (elemental, poison, necrotic, radiant, etc.) come up in battle against monsters?

Campaign dependent. It really is.

I'm playing Curse of Strahd, so there's a lot of Undead that do some Necrotic and some mages with Fireball and stuff.

[Man_Over_Game]

Campaign dependent. It really is.

I'm playing Curse of Strahd, so there's a lot of Undead that do some Necrotic and some mages with Fireball and stuff.

Agreed. Psychic won't come up much unless you're fighting Mind Flayers or some variant of them.

The players aren't likely to be subject to Radiant damage often. Necrotic damage comes up every time there's undead around. Poison comes up a stupid amount, and is probably the most common element beyond the physical three.

[samcifer]

Found out last night my fiance (who was the dm of our last campaign) is wanting to play a nature cleric, so that just leaves two other players to decide on what kinds of characters they will play.

I did some test-rolling on my barbarian pm character last night and was getting a fair number of crits, so I really think I'm going to enjoy playing as him. :)

[Snowbluff]

Mandatory. Anytime you fight anything that isn't just some guy with a sword and you don't have bear totem, you might as well be a featureless fighter.

As for Ludic Savant's analysis, you've advantage on most dex saves, prof in con saves (and neither of these stats will likely be in the negative). The only broad category of save you're not protected in is the Wis save, so just take Resil: Wis.

[Chronos]

...A featureless fighter with Rage, and Reckless Attack, and Brutal Critical, and more HP, and whatever you got from the other subclass you chose.

[GlenSmash!]

It is. I'm mildly annoyed that the mechanically 'usually best choice' archetype options for a lot of classes is also the one I feel is the most thematically fun (yes, I know, one should not feel bad for playing an optimal choice, I just feel it is maybe a little more dedicated to a theme if it is also a suboptimal choice). Zealot barbarian is my favorite barbarian thematically, same with Gloom Stalker Rangers (although Horizon Walker also has a lot of flavor), and Ancients Paladins and Tempest Clerics (although these are less clearly optimal choices, mechanically, so much as one of many good choices).

I get it.

I'm about to multiclass a level 5 Zealot into Ranger going Gloom Stalker, not because I want to multiclass what I think are the best Barbarian and Ranger subclasses, but because we are spending a lot of time in the Underdark, and stuff has gone down with my character and I want to reflect him adapting to it.

[LudicSavant]

you've advantage on most dex saves, prof in con saves (and neither of these stats will likely be in the negative). The only broad category of save you're not protected in is the Wis save, so just take Resil: Wis.

Note that a Bearbarian with Resilient (Wisdom) is still more vulnerable to being targeted by saving throws than many frontliners (such as Paladins or Fighters with Indomitable and extra feats which they totally used to get stuff like Lucky sooner than you), both in terms of their chances to succeed on critical saves and in terms of the consequences of them failing those saves (e.g. Barbarians who are hit by lockdown effects lose their rage).

Wisdom is often the 4th highest stat for Barbarians (since you need Strength, Con, and at least 14 Dex). If we take for example a 12th level Barbarian with 12-14 Wisdom and Resilient (Wisdom) trying to make DC17 saving throws, they fail 45-50% of the time. And that's if Wisdom is being targeted. They go after your Int or Cha and the consequences tend to be just as severe, while your chances of success are much lower.

Taking Resilient (Wisdom) is a very good idea, but one should not mistake that alone for making you well-protected against saving throws.

[Snowbluff]

Note that a Bearbarian with Resilient (Wisdom) is still more vulnerable to being targeted by saving throws than many frontliners (such as Paladins or Fighters with Indomitable and extra feats which they totally used to get stuff like Lucky sooner than you), both in terms of their chances to succeed on critical saves and in terms of the consequences of them failing those saves (e.g. Barbarians who are hit by lockdown effects lose their rage).

Wisdom is generally your 4th highest stat as a Barbarian (since you need Strength, Con, and at least 14 Dex). If we take for example a 12th level Barbarian with 12 Wisdom and Resilient (Wisdom) trying to make DC17 saving throws, they fail 50% of the time. And that's if Wisdom is being targeted. They go after your Int or Cha and the consequences tend to be just as severe, while your chances of success are much lower.

Taking Resilient (Wisdom) is a very good idea, but one should not mistake that alone for making you well-protected against saving throws.

Indeed. I will point out that you should also be aware of the circumstances of losing your rage. Sometimes you'll have to whip something at someone to keep it up.

In general, I find Paladin and Barbarian uniquely challenged at ranged combat as well, so you should be weary of spells that hamper movement as well. Also learn to fly. :smalltongue:

[Corran]

So I was thinking of being a barbarian for a few levels, but after lv. 5, Totem Barbarian seems lackluster compared to other paths. Is the increased range of resistances really that important to have if I multi-class to another class (such as fighter or monk)? How much more useful would it be over Zealot's added damage and access to radiant damage?
Bear totem is very good, because it covers one of the main weaknesses of a barbarian. That is, taking damage that rage does not halve. Barbarians mostly tank with hit points, so anything that can bypass your resistance puts you in trouble.

Also, consider going at least up to barbarian 7 before you consider multiclassing. Have only played one barbarian, and for relatively a short amount of time, but there were many times I wished I had feral instict (which you get at level 7). Taking damage before you get to activate your rage hurts a lot!

[samcifer]

Bear totem is very good, because it covers one of the main weaknesses of a barbarian. That is, taking damage that rage does not halve. Barbarians mostly tank with hit points, so anything that can bypass your resistance puts you in trouble.

Also, consider going at least up to barbarian 7 before you consider multiclassing. Have only played one barbarian, and for relatively a short amount of time, but there were many times I wished I had feral instict (which you get at level 7). Taking damage before you get to activate your rage hurts a lot!

If I have a few levles of fighter though, I'll have 2nd wind to help counter some of it. My test-rolls were 3 attacks per turn with PM, GWM, advantage and critting on 19 or 20. I was doing some pretty good damage that way.

[zinycor]

So, If I undertand correctly, you are going Fighter 3 / barbarian 3?

I would at least get to level 5 before multiclassing.

[samcifer]

So, If I undertand correctly, you are going Fighter 3 / barbarian 3?

I would at least get to level 5 before multiclassing.

Well no, I'll go 5 in one class before multi-classing. Not sure if I'll go Champoin 5-6 first then totem barb from there-on, or if I'll go barb 5 first, then see when to switch to fighter for at least 3 levels afterwards. it'll all depend on my starting stats.

[zinycor]

Well no, I'll go 5 in one class before multi-classing. Not sure if I'll go Champoin 5-6 first then totem barb from there-on, or if I'll go barb 5 first, then see when to switch to fighter for at least 3 levels afterwards. it'll all depend on my starting stats.

If you are going fighter first... Don't go champion, go Battle master or Samuray, or whatever xD Champion is pretty boring if you are single level. It's pretty good if it is a secondary class though.

[samcifer]

Oksy, so my fiance got to talk with the dm and we now know most of the party except for sub-classes:

A paladin, my barb/fighter, a druid who will serve as the mount for another player's cleric to ride, and my fience was bummed that someone else had picked cleric as that's what he was going to be and doesn't like two players with the same class, but I suggested bard to him as they are a support-role class (mostly) which he wants to be and he's looking the class and sub-classes over now. He'd also have the distinction of being the first member of our group to play a bard.

[samcifer]

If you are going fighter first... Don't go champion, go Battle master or Samuray, or whatever xD Champion is pretty boring if you are single level. It's pretty good if it is a secondary class though.

Yeah, I'd like advantage on attack rolls first, hence my leaning more towards starting as barb for the first 5 levels. Improved crit range cam come later.

[thereaper]

In my opinion, the selling point of Totem Warrior isn't the resistances, but rather the rituals. Totem Warrior is the only Barbarian subclass that makes any effort at fixing its primary weakness of being such a one trick pony (in an edition where you really do not want to be a one trick pony). And it does this while also improving your martial capability.

[MaxWilson]

So I was thinking of being a barbarian for a few levels, but after lv. 5, Totem Barbarian seems lackluster compared to other paths. Is the increased range of resistances really that important to have if I multi-class to another class (such as fighter or monk)? How much more useful would it be over Zealot's added damage and access to radiant damage?

It's a weird thing because it comes online at low levels but isn't really useful until high levels. One fairly reasonable way to do it is to take your first level in Barbarian, then at least five levels in Warlock (Blade Pact for Extra Attack), using your Rages only when necessary (they synergize well with Armor of Agathys) in fights where melee is a better idea than spellcasting. Pick up GWM. Then take your second level in Barbarian for Reckless Attack, and take your third level in Bear Totem when you start seeing lots of non-weapon damage from demons/Shadar-Kai/etc., which might be never.

[Willie the Duck]

take your third level in Bear Totem when you start seeing lots of non-weapon damage from demons/Shadar-Kai/etc., which might be never.

And if you never do, there's always changing your mind on archetype.

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, I'd like advantage on attack rolls first, hence my leaning more towards starting as barb for the first 5 levels. Improved crit range cam come later.

I think I had this conversation with one of my optimizers in my IRL group. Barb3/Champion17 is probably ideal for DPR.

Other options I would consider with 3-5 Bear Totem levels

Paladin: 6 Paladin. Better saves is good. More damage via smites (and with reckless attack for more crits) is also good, saince you can't use those slots to cast when raging anyway. Channel Divinity can also buff your attacks or provide some spell-less control. I did Bear3/Paladin6 with a Yuan Ti and he was pretty hard to land anything on. Finally, IIRC while you lose some default barbarian features for waering heavy armor, the bear totem resistances aren't lost.

Moon Druid: Rage doubles the HP of your forms, and doubles the HP you regain by spending slots to heal. I did this with a whisper gnome and sentinel. Giant Constrictor is a nice form with this combo. Please note you can't attack, rage, and wildshape on the same turn so it's probably best to rage first to keep it going via attacks.

Rogue: With resistance to all, add in bonus damage from sneak attack (for best results combine an Str attack with a finesse weapon, like a rapier), extra protection via evasion and uncanny dodge, expertise on athletics for grabbing people as well as some added utility out of combat. This combo is tanky and damaging and generally hilarious. Plus, rogues get extras ASI which is handy.

[samcifer]

I think I had this conversation with one of my optimizers in my IRL group. Barb3/Champion17 is probably ideal for DPR.

Other options I would consider with 3-5 Bear Totem levels

Paladin: 6 Paladin. Better saves is good. More damage via smites (and with reckless attack for more crits) is also good, saince you can't use those slots to cast when raging anyway. Channel Divinity can also buff your attacks or provide some spell-less control. I did Bear3/Paladin6 with a Yuan Ti and he was pretty hard to land anything on. Finally, IIRC while you lose some default barbarian features for waering heavy armor, the bear totem resistances aren't lost.

Moon Druid: Rage doubles the HP of your forms, and doubles the HP you regain by spending slots to heal. I did this with a whisper gnome and sentinel. Giant Constrictor is a nice form with this combo. Please note you can't attack, rage, and wildshape on the same turn so it's probably best to rage first to keep it going via attacks.

Rogue: With resistance to all, add in bonus damage from sneak attack (for best results combine an Str attack with a finesse weapon, like a rapier), extra protection via evasion and uncanny dodge, expertise on athletics for grabbing people as well as some added utility out of combat. This combo is tanky and damaging and generally hilarious. Plus, rogues get extras ASI which is handy.

I'd actually considered a barb/rogue and still might as there's no rogue in the group, but there's never been any situations in any of our homebrewed campaigns where a rogue's non-combat abilities were needed. If we get far enough along, I might go rogue/sorc for shadowblade cheese if my character actually ends up dying somehow. There's no dedicated caster in the group except the bard as I don't know how the cleric or druid will play their characters other than the cleric will be riding the druid like a mount in battle.

I fI were to go rogue for some levels on my barb, it would only use the non-sneak attack abilities as I want to stick with the pm + gwm combo.

[Snowbluff]

Hm... yeah in your position I would probably just settle for fighter or go with Devotion Paladin (for the Cha bonus to attack).

[samcifer]

Hm... yeah in your position I would probably just settle for fighter or go with Devotion Paladin (for the Cha bonus to attack).

My last character was a sorcadin with devotion oath and GWM + PM... It made for a lot of really good damage.

[samcifer]

Okay, so we get to roll for stats and I got 18, 16, 15, 14, 7, and 6. As I was going Variant Human, I went with +1 each to Strength and Dexterity for final stats of: 19 STR, 16 DEX, 16 CON, 14 WIS, 7 INT and 6 CHA.

I intentionally made INT and CHA the dump stats because my pc has a bad habit of letting his glaive do most of the talking as well as that he tends to use the wrong words for things.

For example when going to Intimidate a captive during and interrogation he'd say "I'll irrigate (interrogate) him so thoroughly that he'll be begging to tell us all he knows by the time I'm finished with him!"

Or, when questioning a woman who's lover is missing: "And the two of you were more than constipated (casual) towards each other?"

Or, when trying to use a magical item he knows nothing about. "Oh please! I may not be conjugal (competent) with magic, but that doesn't mean I don't know how it works!"

[samcifer]

So last night most of our group got together and tried out our characters. I got to test mine and our moon druid and centaur bard got to play along with two other players, only one of which I'd played with before. They were running a rogue (unknown subclass) and a pacifist dwarf cleric (unknown subclass).

We decided to play at lv. 6 in a one-shot treasure hunting quest and I was doing some real serious damage and only got hit once (out of rage as I went after the dm that battle). The dm was stunned that I was doing so much damage, but I was really happy with the character's performance. We didn't do much rp-stuff, but the quest didn't call for that and I was having a bad night of coughing from either having just come off a cold or possibly the blood pressure meds I started a week ago, or maybe even just my bronchitis-damaged lungs or maybe even my acid reflux (honestly it's real hard to tell with me after all I've been through in my life), so it was hard for me to talk enough to pr anyways. We''l start off at lv. 1 for the formal campaign in 2 weeks' time.

[zinycor]

So last night most of our group got together and tried out our characters. I got to test mine and our moon druid and centaur bard got to play along with two other players, only one of which I'd played with before. They were running a rogue (unknown subclass) and a pacifist dwarf cleric (unknown subclass).

We decided to play at lv. 6 in a one-shot treasure hunting quest and I was doing some real serious damage and only got hit once (out of rage as I went after the dm that battle). The dm was stunned that I was doing so much damage, but I was really happy with the character's performance. We didn't do much rp-stuff, but the quest didn't call for that and I was having a bad night of coughing from either having just come off a cold or possibly the blood pressure meds I started a week ago, or maybe even just my bronchitis-damaged lungs or maybe even my acid reflux (honestly it's real hard to tell with me after all I've been through in my life), so it was hard for me to talk enough to pr anyways. We''l start off at lv. 1 for the formal campaign in 2 weeks' time.

Glad to hear that, it seemed very fun.

[samcifer]

*Groans in suffering* So our dm has decided that death saving throw dc will be set to 15 instead of the normal 10 and most other players in the group are for it, so I think I'll need to go half-orc for more survivability instead of variant human and delay the pm + gwm combo until level 8 (or lv. 6 if I start off as a fighter instead, then go barbarian from lv. 7 onwards). My fiancé, who is playing our centaur lore bard is also re-thinking his character as he doesn't want to invest too much into rp-ing a character who will end up getting killed, esp. at low levels.

The DM feels that we'll be okay as there are 2 clerics, a bard, a druid and a paladin in the group who can all heal, but that's a stiff difficulty on overcoming death. One of the clerics says he'll take Spare the Dying as one of his cantrips, but even with that I'm worried.

Also, the dm will impose extra thinks on crits such as damaging the victim's armor, weapons, etc, which also adds to the worrisomeness of this campaign. I'm already plotting out an arcane character as a back up should my barbarian die suddenly. :(

[zinycor]

*Groans in suffering* So our dm has decided that death saving throw dc will be set to 15 instead of the normal 10 and most other players in the group are for it, so I think I'll need to go half-orc for more survivability instead of variant human and delay the pm + gwm combo until level 8 (or lv. 6 if I start off as a fighter instead, then go barbarian from lv. 7 onwards). My fiancé, who is playing our centaur lore bard is also re-thinking his character as he doesn't want to invest too much into rp-ing a character who will end up getting killed, esp. at low levels.

The DM feels that we'll be okay as there are 2 clerics, a bard, a druid and a paladin in the group who can all heal, but that's a stiff difficulty on overcoming death. One of the clerics says he'll take Spare the Dying as one of his cantrips, but even with that I'm worried.

Also, the dm will impose extra thinks on crits such as damaging the victim's armor, weapons, etc, which also adds to the worrisomeness of this campaign. I'm already plotting out an arcane character as a back up should my barbarian die suddenly. :(

I have to agree with your dm here, you will probably be fine with that kind of party. At worst you will have to make a single saving throw before any of your supporting spellcasters saves you, probably not even that.

With that kind of party, you are ready to take on the world.

[Man_Over_Game]

Heh, not sure what you're worried about, bud. With that much healing, there's not much reason you guys should be going down. Just make sure that you guys value healing before people get near 0 HP and you'll do fine.

[samcifer]

Heh, not sure what you're worried about, bud. With that much healing, there's not much reason you guys should be going down. Just make sure that you guys value healing before people get near 0 HP and you'll do fine.

Character survivability is the issue for both I and my fiancé I changed my race to half-orc to improve my survivability (on my totem - bear barbarian), but my fiancé's centaur lore bard is extra squishy and he isn't keen on investing much into a character who will likely die the first time they drop due to the higher death save dc.

[MaxWilson]

*Groans in suffering* So our dm has decided that death saving throw dc will be set to 15 instead of the normal 10 and most other players in the group are for it, so I think I'll need to go half-orc for more survivability instead of variant human and delay the pm + gwm combo until level 8 (or lv. 6 if I start off as a fighter instead, then go barbarian from lv. 7 onwards). My fiancé, who is playing our centaur lore bard is also re-thinking his character as he doesn't want to invest too much into rp-ing a character who will end up getting killed, esp. at low levels.

The DM feels that we'll be okay as there are 2 clerics, a bard, a druid and a paladin in the group who can all heal, but that's a stiff difficulty on overcoming death. One of the clerics says he'll take Spare the Dying as one of his cantrips, but even with that I'm worried.

Don't be worried. I don't think I've ever seen a player roll three full rounds of death saves anyway--when someone dies from failed death saves, the failures are almost always from auto-crits against an unconscious target, not from someone just lying there bleeding.


Character survivability is the issue for both I and my fiancé I changed my race to half-orc to improve my survivability (on my totem - bear barbarian), but my fiancé's centaur lore bard is extra squishy and he isn't keen on investing much into a character who will likely die the first time they drop due to the higher death save dc.

He's a lore bard and a centaur. He's got Cutting Words and high mobility. He should be fine just by staying out of range, but (from a purely mechanical standpoint) could always just take a level or two of Hexblade for Medium Armor + Shield proficiency, the Shield spell, and access to Expeditious Retreat. That should be enough to keep him alive in any reasonable circumstances.

But even if multiclassing to Hexblade is not appropriate for RP reasons, just be careful about getting too close to the monsters. Also, if you take Stealth proficiency, Hiding can sometimes be a great use of your action. A Lore Bard who casts Conjure Animals and then Hides behind total cover somewhere or within heavy obscurement (like darkness) while popping out occasionally to hand out Bardic Inspiration is contributing a ton to the party's success while remaining fairly safe from harm.

P.S. A Lucky human is IMO more survivable than a half-orc. You can negate crits, re-roll saves against debilitating conditions, and even use your Lucky on death saving throws if you really want to. 3/long rest is better than 1/long rest.

[Willie the Duck]

Lore bards also do pretty well spending a feat to pick up medium armor and shield proficiencies. It probably relegates you to using Vicious Mockery as opposed to bow or rapier for your resource-free rounds (unless you also get war caster), but given the goal of staying out of the way, it's probably fine.

[Chronos]

Death saves per se only matter when your character is separated from all of their allies for some reason. That might happen for a rogue scouting ahead, but it's not likely for a barbarian.

Also remember that the paladin's aura applies to all saves, including death saves. And as two melee dudes, you're likely to be in range of the paladin's aura most of the time.

[zinycor]

are you just ignoring the fact that paladins, clerics, bards and druids all have easy ways to keep you up so you never have to do 2 deathsaving throws?? Seriously man, diying on this sort of party would be pretty hard as long as you stay near your party.

[GlenSmash!]

Death saves are an inconvenience to a Zealot anyway.

Especially with multiple resurrecters in the party.

[samcifer]

Well, we had 2 play-tests over the last two weekends with most of our group and a substitute (the tempest cleric and paladin players were unable to attend, but we had a guy playing a rogue instead, so the group dynamic was off).

First game was with my variant human version who had PM + GWM at lv. 6 and I was doing a crazy amount of damage with him.

For the second game, I decided to change to half-orc and we were again t lv. 6, but I took GWM at lv. 4. I was still doing pretty good damage and had good accuracy with reckless attack and managed to get a crit on a turn, so in 3 attacks I took out what must have been an acidic ooze once our druid knocked it down off the ceiling.

I'm annoyed, however, that the dm is making us roll our stats again (probably mostly me because I had a rare good set of rolls of 6x4d6 and got 18, 16, 15, 14, 7 and 6. At least he's offering us in-game trainers we can pay gold and time to up our stats some. Still a bit annoying, tho. :(

This weekend will be the beginning of the new campaign.

[GlenSmash!]

Well, we had 2 play-tests over the last two weekends with most of our group and a substitute (the tempest cleric and paladin players were unable to attend, but we had a guy playing a rogue instead, so the group dynamic was off).

First game was with my variant human version who had PM + GWM at lv. 6 and I was doing a crazy amount of damage with him.

For the second game, I decided to change to half-orc and we were again t lv. 6, but I took GWM at lv. 4. I was still doing pretty good damage and had good accuracy with reckless attack and managed to get a crit on a turn, so in 3 attacks I took out what must have been an acidic ooze once our druid knocked it down off the ceiling.

I'm annoyed, however, that the dm is making us roll our stats again (probably mostly me because I had a rare good set of rolls of 6x4d6 and got 18, 16, 15, 14, 7 and 6. At least he's offering us in-game trainers we can pay gold and time to up our stats some. Still a bit annoying, tho. :(

This weekend will be the beginning of the new campaign.

Ugh. Whats the point of even rolling if you aren't prepared to deal with the variance in ability scores.

[zinycor]

Ugh. Whats the point of even rolling if you aren't prepared to deal with the variance in ability scores.

Exactly, me for example, I don't like that variance so I go with the standard points, maybe the op could ask the Gm to do the same?

[MaxWilson]

Exactly, me for example, I don't like that variance so I go with the standard points, maybe the op could ask the Gm to do the same?

And So It Begins.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlameWar

[GlenSmash!]

And So It Begins.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlameWar

Ha!

I've pretty much instituted a "come with whatever stats you want" policy. No one has shown up with all All 20s or even all 18s yet.

[zinycor]

And So It Begins.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlameWar

What? I am agreeing with everybody!

[MaxWilson]

What? I am agreeing with everybody!

The OP said they liked their rolls. GlenSmash said the DM should just accept the rolls. You said the OP should use point buy instead of rolling. That looks like a recipe for conflict, especially if other people jump in and start sharing their own preferences.

[samcifer]

The OP said they liked their rolls. GlenSmash said the DM should just accept the rolls. You said the OP should use point buy instead of rolling. That looks like a recipe for conflict, especially if other people jump in and start sharing their own preferences.

He wants the game to be half rp and half combat with higher death save difficulty. Honestly, after our last evil campaign that just ended where we were all over-powered (except for the monk who just took to trying to stun on every hit and my sorcadin with oath of devotion who was shadow + booming blading with smites on every hit during the final session at lv. 12 to 13 (we all got upped to the next level for the final battle of the campaign).

I'm thinking that the dm doesn't want overpowered characters this time around. Still... I REALLY liked my stats and the 7 int and 6 cha really fit his personality. :(

[zinycor]

The OP said they liked their rolls. GlenSmash said the DM should just accept the rolls. You said the OP should use point buy instead of rolling. That looks like a recipe for conflict, especially if other people jump in and start sharing their own preferences.

That's not at all what GlenSmash said!


Ugh. Whats the point of even rolling if you aren't prepared to deal with the variance in ability scores.




He wants the game to be half rp and half combat with higher death save difficulty. Honestly, after our last evil campaign that just ended where we were all over-powered (except for the monk who just took to trying to stun on every hit and my sorcadin with oath of devotion who was shadow + booming blading with smites on every hit during the final session at lv. 12 to 13 (we all got upped to the next level for the final battle of the campaign).

I'm thinking that the dm doesn't want overpowered characters this time around. Still... I REALLY liked my stats and the 7 int and 6 cha really fit his personality. :(

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about stats, focus on your abilities and your character's personality. Specially since it will have that much focus on rp.

Higher death saves are a bit annoying, but nothing you can't work around having so much healing in your party.

[MaxWilson]

That's not at all what GlenSmash said!

It clearly is. GlenSmash even posted a followup saying he lets players use any stats they want. That's pretty much the opposite of what you said: that the DM should restrict everyone to point-buy.

[zinycor]

It clearly is. GlenSmash even posted a followup saying he lets players use any stats they want. That's pretty much the opposite of what you said: that the DM should restrict everyone to point-buy.

Am not talking on the followup, as I had no way of knowing about it when I posted. And no, GlenSmash didn't make that clear in his original post.

[samcifer]

That's not at all what GlenSmash said!

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about stats, focus on your abilities and your character's personality. Specially since it will have that much focus on rp.

Higher death saves are a bit annoying, but nothing you can't work around having so much healing in your party.

The issue with trying to focus on rp elements are that I'm a person others tend to 'verabally run over', meaning that I have a very hard time getting a word in edgewise. Also, the group has two players who tend to dominate rp encounters, always instantly launching into what they want to do and having long interactions that eat up a lot of time, leaving very little time for I and two other players who are less outspoken than the first two to get any rp-stuff in. I've taken to focusing mostly on worrying about the battle encounters and sit back, waiting for the next battle (which can take 2 hours or more real-world time). The dm suggested that I talk to the players about this, but there's been no improvement with either of them on 'sharing' rp time with the rest of us when I voiced the same concerns at the end of a previous campaign over a year ago.

I suggested stat-based intitiative rolls based on the nature of an encounter (such as using a d20 + each player's CON modifier for a drinking contest/eating competition, dex for when we would need to focus on stealth, strength for a tug-of-war, intelligence for solving puzzles and researching for info, charisma when trying to emotionally manipulating an npc, etc.), and he said he'd think about it. the goal of rolling initiative (especially this way) is to allow other players a chance to shine (or at least do something at all) during non combat encounters to prevent players with forceful personalities from dominating all non combat encounters.

[GlenSmash!]

It clearly is. GlenSmash even posted a followup saying he lets players use any stats they want. That's pretty much the opposite of what you said: that the DM should restrict everyone to point-buy.


Am not talking on the followup, as I had no way of knowing about it when I posted. And no, GlenSmash didn't make that clear in his original post.

A little from column a and a little from column b. I do think if a DM allows rolling and then says "yeah that's too high go ahead and re-roll" I would recommend that DM switch to point buy or standard array.

Personally I'm ok with all the ways of generating stats in 5e and then some. It's easy to get main stat to 20 regardless, and having more than one high stat seems to enable interesting builds. Overall I find a Hexblade with 20 Cha more hard to challenge than a Barbarian with 20 Str, 20 Dex, and 20 Con anyway.

I did restrict my Adventures in Middle Earth game to point-buy as I was using the optional rule that allows learning Feats (called virtues in AiME) over Downtime (called the Fellowship Phase) so ASIs would likely be used as ASIs and I figured that would be more than enough for me to handle.

[alchahest]

if the DM wants a higher challenge then bad guys should be attacking downed PCs, rather than changing the DC. Attacks from within 5' of an incapacitated foe are automatically crits if they hit, which count as two death save failures. literally all it takes is a single enemy with two attacks to take someone from down to out.

[zinycor]

The issue with trying to focus on rp elements are that I'm a person others tend to 'verabally run over', meaning that I have a very hard time getting a word in edgewise. Also, the group has two players who tend to dominate rp encounters, always instantly launching into what they want to do and having long interactions that eat up a lot of time, leaving very little time for I and two other players who are less outspoken than the first two to get any rp-stuff in. I've taken to focusing mostly on worrying about the battle encounters and sit back, waiting for the next battle (which can take 2 hours or more real-world time). The dm suggested that I talk to the players about this, but there's been no improvement with either of them on 'sharing' rp time with the rest of us when I voiced the same concerns at the end of a previous campaign over a year ago.

I suggested stat-based intitiative rolls based on the nature of an encounter (such as using a d20 + each player's CON modifier for a drinking contest/eating competition, dex for when we would need to focus on stealth, strength for a tug-of-war, intelligence for solving puzzles and researching for info, charisma when trying to emotionally manipulating an npc, etc.), and he said he'd think about it. the goal of rolling initiative (especially this way) is to allow other players a chance to shine (or at least do something at all) during non combat encounters to prevent players with forceful personalities from dominating all non combat encounters.

Hopefully your Gm takes your suggestion, seems like the best option.

[Guy Lombard-O]

So, you want to Barbarian with the best of ‘em.

Totem Warrior. A very solid, well rounded path to walk. Bear or Wolf is the most important choice at level 3. The other animal totems might as well not even exist for the purposes of this choice. While it’s utterly awesome to take a Fireball to the face like it didn’t even tickle you vía Bear, it’s entirely possible your party would benefit more from Wolf. It really depends on the rest of the party. Melee oriented Paladins, Fighters, Rogues, etc would love someone granting Advantage on their attacks. If you can create some synergy with other melee oriented allies, strongly consider Wolf.

You need to decide what your role is: Tank and help allies while bashing faces (Totem), or utterly decimate faces so hard that they can’t harm your allies (Zealot).

Good stuff. It occurs to me that there might be a really great synergy between a Wolf Totem barbarian and an Ancients Paladin, once they hit that 7th level. The Wolf gives the paladin advantage for his crit-smites, and the paladin gives the barbarian resistance to spell damage. Nice.

[samcifer]

one thing during the 2nd test session one-shot, we entered a room with ice-skating foes with scythes and I ended up going after the dm (who got a crit for initiative) and took 2 attacks during his turn, taking over 40 damage and dropping to a third of my hp before I ever got the chance to rage. Fortunately that was the only scare I had during the session.

[zinycor]

one thing during the 2nd test session one-shot, we entered a room with ice-skating foes with scythes and I ended up going after the dm (who got a crit for initiative) and took 2 attacks during his turn, taking over 40 damage and dropping to a third of my hp before I ever got the chance to rage. Fortunately that was the only scare I had during the session.

The funny thing is that you lost 40 hp points on a single turn... And probbly wasn't even a problem for a barbarian with a high amount of support xD

[samcifer]

The funny thing is that you lost 40 hp points on a single turn... And probbly wasn't even a problem for a barbarian with a high amount of support xD

True, but that was rather scary for someone new to playing barbarians and it wasn't even a boss encounter.

[AHF]

Has anyone ever run a campaign with two melee characters who both have level 3 wolf totem in their build? Seems like they would let the party focus fire on opponents and have near permanent advantage. Was thinking that one multiclassing to a BM with maneuvering attack would make that even more brutal (by letting you move the other within 5 feet after your first attack a lot of the time).

[Shuruke]

I'm currently playing a tundra storm herald barbarian

Not having bear totem was extremely noticeable
Got hit for 11 damage at lvl 3 and then another 15 all in same turn both from a caster

I took 24 damage due to 2hp shield but 13 would've been nice substitute

However during the encounter I probably did over 50 temp hp shielding to the group because I kept positioning to hit everyone since its actually pretty big range. 10ft from self in all directions is very close to 25 ft square centered on self.

(This was a 6 person group)

[samcifer]

So last night I re-rolled my stats and got pretty lucky: 18, 16, 15, 11, 9 and 8. With the half-orc bonuses, I ended up with:

STR 20, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 9 and CHA 11

I went CHA over WIS because of the Rose Nylund kind of personality he has. Definitely more charismatic than intelligent or wise. No starting armor, though, so my ac is only 16. It's still better than my fiance's character who as a centaur bard (for thematic reasons) only has an ac of 12 because he only has 12 for his DEX mod (again by choice as he'll be ranged support for the rest of us while I and the group's paladin will be the melee heavy hitters.

[GlenSmash!]

So last night I re-rolled my stats and got pretty lucky: 18, 16, 15, 11, 9 and 8. With the half-orc bonuses, I ended up with:

STR 20, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 9 and CHA 11

I went CHA over WIS because of the Rose Nylund kind of personality he has. Definitely more charismatic than intelligent or wise. No starting armor, though, so my ac is only 16. It's still better than my fiance's character who as a centaur bard (for thematic reasons) only has an ac of 12 because he only has 12 for his DEX mod (again by choice as he'll be ranged support for the rest of us while I and the group's paladin will be the melee heavy hitters.

16 AC is pretty high for a starting Barb. I'd say 15 is typical, but my current Zealot started with 14 and was just fine.

[samcifer]

What's the average AC of melee npcs at low levels (1-5)? I'm lucky enough to have max strength, but what to know what the lowest I can roll on a d20 is and still hit.

[MaxWilson]

What's the average AC of melee npcs at low levels (1-5)? I'm lucky enough to have max strength, but what to know what the lowest I can roll on a d20 is and still hit.

If you're asking about NPCs specifically, NPCs tend to have higher ACs than monsters. I would guess that the Guard is fairly typical: AC 16, though there is also the AC 12 Bandit. Low-level monsters commonly have ACs in the 12-15 range.

To be more specific I'd have to know more about how your DM builds encounters but does that help?

[samcifer]

If you're asking about NPCs specifically, NPCs tend to have higher ACs than monsters. I would guess that the Guard is fairly typical: AC 16, though there is also the AC 12 Bandit. Low-level monsters commonly have ACs in the 12-15 range.

To be more specific I'd have to know more about how your DM builds encounters but does that help?

12 to 15... Okay, sounds good. That way with a +7 to attack, it'd only need to roll and 8 or higher to hit. Also, yes, I meant monsters. (too used to thinking of all non-player characters as npc, including enemy forces in combats from kobolds to liches.

We always run home-brewed campaigns, so it'd be pretty tough to describe the thought processes of the dms.

[GlenSmash!]

Around level 5 to 6 I'd say I'm more regularly encountering 18-19 AC bad guys. Not much higher than that right now.

[MaxWilson]

It's also worth noting that due to the way 5E CR math works, a bad guy with AC 18-19 is likely to have correspondingly fewer HP (or else weaker damage output), so he won't necessarily be tougher. He'll be harder to hit but will also die in fewer hits.

In short, don't worry about it, with Str 20 you'll be more than fine.

[samcifer]

It's also worth noting that due to the way 5E CR math works, a bad guy with AC 18-19 is likely to have correspondingly fewer HP (or else weaker damage output), so he won't necessarily be tougher. He'll be harder to hit but will also die in fewer hits.

In short, don't worry about it, with Str 20 you'll be more than fine.

Oh cool. I've only been a player for the last two years and never did any research from the dm side so I never knew things like this.

[samcifer]

Okay, so last night we had the first session of the campaign and I now understand the setting, theme and such better. Apparently we are in a campaign that takes heavy inspiration from the tv show The Vikings (which I've never watched, but I guess I should start doing so I understand the references and environment better). Basically the gods have apparently been killed off by an evil god (or are at least severely weakened) and the moon never appears in the sky. The land is a cold and snowy one where the winters are slowly growing colder and colder and it's getting harder and harder to find and grow food.

We met each others' characters (started off at lv. 1 for all of us) and went on a hunt with a legendary hero who was just made the newest of the 5 jarls after his predecessor passed from old age. We hunted and killed an alpha mammoth for our first battle with the dwarven life cleric, kenku tempest cleric and centaur (lore) bard buffing the rest of us (sea-elf moon druid, human devotion paladin and my half-orc totem barbarian), including the npc jarl who was leading us (human fighter was his class, I guess?)

As we were cutting up the mammoth after, a group of what sounded like undead soldiers attacked us and the jarl went one-on-one with their devil-knight sounding (based on the description) leader. During the battle, our kenku's Thunderwave spell triggered an avalanche and the jarl and big bad got buried at the end of the fight (so did we, but less so) and we took shelter in a magically-made igloo for the night and a full rest. The druid had a prophetic dream of a blood moon, blood raining from the sky and the gods being cut down, but in the morning there was no sign of the jarl or big bad's bodies and no tracks to follow. The others kept arguing on what to do to try to track the jarl, but, in-character, I told them all that any further attempts would be fugitive (yes, that's literally what I said), and we returned to the ship to see 3 of them gone but the other 13 still there with no signs of life. We knew the undead army had attacked all the hunting parties and took the boat back home to find that only 3 ships had returned safely. We spoke to the other 4 jarls, then went to bed for the night. Both paladins have dark dreams about death and loss as well as the paladin who sees his parent's graves dug up and their skulls missing, then his brother standing there as a freshly-made vampire and the sire, who killed their legendary hero father, beside the brother.

The next day the other ships returned... Bringing back all of the rest of the now undead hunting parties to attack us as well as our paladin's brother... as the vampire he had been in the paladin's dream last night and wearing the skulls of their parents around his neck. He taunts his brother snd scoffs at the idea of his brother curing his vampirsm, then leaves and we have to fight another army of undead after the druid has the village enact a plan to set 3 ships on fire and steer them across the water into the arriving ships, destroying 5 of them in the process.

The battle ends and we end the session with no xp as the dm says he will level us up via milestones rather than xp and says we reached a milestone and are now all at lv. 2. HE also explained how he had given the monsters low ac and low damage, but slightly bumped up their accuracy to make things tense, but not overpowering for us. I only took 2 hits during the second battle against the undead army who attacked after we killed the mammoth and got dropped from 15 hp to 10 at first until I remembered that I was raging and had only taken half damage, so I corrected it (this is my first time playing a barbarian, so I'm still learning these things and had forgotten to cut the damage to me in half).

I got to tell of how my tribe became nomadic marauding farmers and got to irritate the druid player in the process (which was fun because he's always giving me a hard time out-of-character on a lot of stuff), and it was a rather interesting experience for all of us. :)

Now the question will be... I gain 10 hp on average per level (7 + 3 CON mod) and we're looking to be facing off against a lot of undead in this campaign. Would the average of 5 radiant damage from the Zealot barb path be better for me in this setting than the bear totem for more resistances? I was leaning towards bear totem, but am no longer sure. True that we have 2 clerics and a paladin in the group, but is radiant damage really more important than more tanking for my barbarian if undead will be so prominent? Not sure how difficult it would be to acquire a weapon that inflicts radiant damage as an alternative to the zealot path?

[zinycor]

Okay, so last night we had the first session of the campaign and I now understand the setting, theme and such better. Apparently we are in a campaign that takes heavy inspiration from the tv show The Vikings (which I've never watched, but I guess I should start doing so I understand the references and environment better). Basically the gods have apparently been killed off by an evil god (or are at least severely weakened) and the moon never appears in the sky. The land is a cold and snowy one where the winters are slowly growing colder and colder and it's getting harder and harder to find and grow food.

We met each others' characters (started off at lv. 1 for all of us) and went on a hunt with a legendary hero who was just made the newest of the 5 jarls after his predecessor passed from old age. We hunted and killed an alpha mammoth for our first battle with the dwarven life cleric, kenku tempest cleric and centaur (lore) bard buffing the rest of us (sea-elf moon druid, human devotion paladin and my half-orc totem barbarian), including the npc jarl who was leading us (human fighter was his class, I guess?)

As we were cutting up the mammoth after, a group of what sounded like undead soldiers attacked us and the jarl went one-on-one with their devil-knight sounding (based on the description) leader. During the battle, our kenku's Thunderwave spell triggered an avalanche and the jarl and big bad got buried at the end of the fight (so did we, but less so) and we took shelter in a magically-made igloo for the night and a full rest. The druid had a prophetic dream of a blood moon, blood raining from the sky and the gods being cut down, but in the morning there was no sign of the jarl or big bad's bodies and no tracks to follow. The others kept arguing on what to do to try to track the jarl, but, in-character, I told them all that any further attempts would be fugitive (yes, that's literally what I said), and we returned to the ship to see 3 of them gone but the other 13 still there with no signs of life. We knew the undead army had attacked all the hunting parties and took the boat back home to find that only 3 ships had returned safely. We spoke to the other 4 jarls, then went to bed for the night. Both paladins have dark dreams about death and loss as well as the paladin who sees his parent's graves dug up and their skulls missing, then his brother standing there as a freshly-made vampire and the sire, who killed their legendary hero father, beside the brother.

The next day the other ships returned... Bringing back all of the rest of the now undead hunting parties to attack us as well as our paladin's brother... as the vampire he had been in the paladin's dream last night and wearing the skulls of their parents around his neck. He taunts his brother snd scoffs at the idea of his brother curing his vampirsm, then leaves and we have to fight another army of undead after the druid has the village enact a plan to set 3 ships on fire and steer them across the water into the arriving ships, destroying 5 of them in the process.

The battle ends and we end the session with no xp as the dm says he will level us up via milestones rather than xp and says we reached a milestone and are now all at lv. 2. HE also explained how he had given the monsters low ac and low damage, but slightly bumped up their accuracy to make things tense, but not overpowering for us. I only took 2 hits during the second battle against the undead army who attacked after we killed the mammoth and got dropped from 15 hp to 10 at first until I remembered that I was raging and had only taken half damage, so I corrected it (this is my first time playing a barbarian, so I'm still learning these things and had forgotten to cut the damage to me in half).

I got to tell of how my tribe became nomadic marauding farmers and got to irritate the druid player in the process (which was fun because he's always giving me a hard time out-of-character on a lot of stuff), and it was a rather interesting experience for all of us. :)

Now the question will be... I gain 10 hp on average per level (7 + 3 CON mod) and we're looking to be facing off against a lot of undead in this campaign. Would the average of 5 radiant damage from the Zealot barb path be better for me in this setting than the bear totem for more resistances? I was leaning towards bear totem, but am no longer sure. True that we have 2 clerics and a paladin in the group, but is radiant damage really more important than more tanking for my barbarian if undead will be so prominent? Not sure how difficult it would be to acquire a weapon that inflicts radiant damage as an alternative to the zealot path?

With 2 clerics and one paladin, it really doesn't matter, since there will be enough radiant damage as well as healing. In your position I would go totem barbarian wolf, and grab a greatsword or greataxe and go full dpr.

[samcifer]

With 2 clerics and one paladin, it really doesn't matter, since there will be enough radiant damage as well as healing. In your position I would go totem barbarian wolf, and grab a greatsword or greataxe and go full dpr.

I use a glaive and want to ultimately habe pm + GWM for 3 high damage attacks per turn ( assuming they all connect) might go GWM at lv 4, then pm at lv. 8.

[zinycor]

I use a glaive and want to ultimately habe pm + GWM for 3 high damage attacks per turn ( assuming they all connect) might go GWM at lv 4, then pm at lv. 8.

If so, maybe you could take a look at totem eagle, mobility works great when combined with polearms.

[samcifer]

With 2 clerics and one paladin, it really doesn't matter, since there will be enough radiant damage as well as healing. In your position I would go totem barbarian wolf, and grab a greatsword or greataxe and go full dpr.

Wolf totem would be nearly useless because the melee guys in our group tend to spread out (based on playstyle among players over the last 4 campaigns over the last 3 years), so I still think Bear totem would serve me best as we're going up against undead and will likely face off against disease and poison in the future.

[Willie the Duck]

Good on you for recognizing what, while good in theory, won't fit your campaign play-style. Let us know how it goes.

[samcifer]

Good on you for recognizing what, while good in theory, won't fit your campaign play-style. Let us know how it goes.

Yeah, the last session had a perfect example. We were spread out across the battlefield and the paladin as the only other main melee guy was too far away to help me, leaving only our shillelagh-wielding druid to help me against a trio of melee enemies who had ganged up on us. On his next turn, the druid ditched me to go help the npc hero we were fighting with, leaving me alone with the 3 foes when I'd already taken a critical hit as a lv. 1 character and lost 5 of my 15 hp. (that player is a bit of a jerk who tends to play for himself rather than as a part of the group. He's one of the ones who tends to literally dominate rp encounters and only looks out for himself in battle on every character I've ever seen him play as.)

[Alucard89]

If you have paladin and he will be going some tank route (with Oath or with build overall) - Wolf Totem will give him advantage all the time, echancing his smitting potential.

If your DM is willing to homebrew some stuff for players- I would definitely at lesat try to speak with him about Berserker.

Berserkers are awesome as longas you remove/rework stupid exhaustion rule.

I had a pleasure to play as one, where we ruled that you you heal one exhaustion per short rest and all exhaustion levels per long rest. It was a pleasure to play as meatgrinder :D

[samcifer]

If you have paladin and he will be going some tank route (with Oath or with build overall) - Wolf Totem will give him advantage all the time, echancing his smitting potential.

If your DM is willing to homebrew some stuff for players- I would definitely at lesat try to speak with him about Berserker.

Berserkers are awesome as longas you remove/rework stupid exhaustion rule.

I had a pleasure to play as one, where we ruled that you you heal one exhaustion per short rest and all exhaustion levels per long rest. It was a pleasure to play as meatgrinder :D

The paladin is planning on going Devotion for his oath.

[Alucard89]

The paladin is planning on going Devotion for his oath.

Good, he won't have a way to get advantage like Vengeance can. Wolf Totem will greatly boost his power in front lines (and so whole team) giving him advantage on his attacks to increase chances of hit n crit. Which is important for Smitting stuff back to hell.

I personally rate barbs like that:

1. If you have 2 other melee characters - Wolf Totem is beast to have.
2. If you are solo front liner and you don't have a proper tank (Paladin, Sword n Board Fighter, Moon Druid etc.) - Bear is just best all-around and can serve as tank.
3. If you have a tank and you lack damage in front lines- Berserker is absolutely amazing if DM is willing to homerule all the stupidness behind exhaustion levels that WoTC came up with.. (guess while being drunk).

In your case, if you are more of team-player - Wolf Totem would be great.

If you are however more of a player focused on yourself (which is not bad, just different) or you just can't decide- Bear is always best choice. It has no downsides and it's great all-around barbarian.

[samcifer]

Good, he won't have a way to get advantage like Vengeance can. Wolf Totem will greatly boost his power in front lines (and so whole team) giving him advantage on his attacks to increase chances of hit n crit. Which is important for Smitting stuff back to hell.

I personally rate barbs like that:

1. If you have 2 other melee characters - Wolf Totem is beast to have.
2. If you are solo front liner and you don't have a proper tank (Paladin, Sword n Board Fighter, Moon Druid etc.) - Bear is just best all-around and can serve as tank.
3. If you have a tank and you lack damage in front lines- Berserker is absolutely amazing if DM is willing to homerule all the stupidness behind exhaustion levels that WoTC came up with.. (guess while being drunk).

In your case, if you are more of team-player - Wolf Totem would be great.

If you are however more of a player focused on yourself (which is not bad, just different) or you just can't decide- Bear is always best choice. It has no downsides and it's great all-around barbarian.

I'll probably just go bear. I was planning on taking Polearm Master at lv. 8 anyways so that I'll still get 3 attacks per turn that way and yeah, it'll be less damage, but combined with GWM, it won't be as devastating a loss. In my group, we each tend to do our own think, mostly, but in this campaign with a bard and 2 clerics, we've been getting Blessed and Shield of Faith-ed quite a bit and can afford to be separated. Our melee characters (myself included) tend to spread out, rather than support one another by staying close together, making Wolf totem a wasted effort most of the time. With bear, it'll be a constant and reliable benefit that won't rely on unreliable teammates who tend to do their own thing. Admittedly, my main focus in battle is doing damage regardless of which class(es) I play as in each campaign. I just enjoy being a dps player more than anything else and don't have the creativity for enchanting or illusions when I play a spellcaster. I
m just focused on doing damage and surviving each battle.

[MaxWilson]

I'll probably just go bear. I was planning on taking Polearm Master at lv. 8 anyways so that I'll still get 3 attacks per turn that way and yeah, it'll be less damage, but combined with GWM, it won't be as devastating a loss. In my group, we each tend to do our own think, mostly, but in this campaign with a bard and 2 clerics, we've been getting Blessed and Shield of Faith-ed quite a bit and can afford to be separated. Our melee characters (myself included) tend to spread out, rather than support one another by staying close together, making Wolf totem a wasted effort most of the time. With bear, it'll be a constant and reliable benefit that won't rely on unreliable teammates who tend to do their own thing. Admittedly, my main focus in battle is doing damage regardless of which class(es) I play as in each campaign. I just enjoy being a dps player more than anything else and don't have the creativity for enchanting or illusions when I play a spellcaster. I
m just focused on doing damage and surviving each battle.

Yeah, Bear's a good choice. Some people don't like it because most monsters in the game inflict primarily physical damage anyway, but IMO if your goal is to keep a consistent playstyle, it will be nice to just be the "rawr I'm tough against anything except Star Spawn and Illithids" Bear instead of an "I'm tough against anything except wizards and elementals and Purple Worms and Star Spawn and Illithids and Nightstalkers and wights and Shadar Kai and demons... etc." barbarian.

Watching a Reckless, Raging Barbarian take tons of damage from poison makes me kind of sad, since Barbarians rely soooo much on their Rage for durability instead of AC or mobility that anything that bypasses Rage resistance actually makes them kind of squishy. You won't have that problem.

[Shuruke]

Yeah going the PAM route id say just go bear

Frenzy barb bonus action wouldnt get used except for when u want 1d10 instead of 1d4

Storm herald is a constant bonus action but the arctic ignore cold weather could be useful at 8


Id say based off spread out allies
Eagle or Elk totem are good .
Eagle by itself Elk if getting mobile

But bear is a solid option because it'll come up alot and feel lime it was worth.

[samcifer]

We hit lv. 3 last night and I went bear totem for the extra resistances (the animal-themed rituals will be wasted as we have a druid in the group). It's been suggested by another player in my group to go GWM at lv. 4 and leave PM for later (probably lv. 9 as After barb 5 for extra attack, I want to get to improved crit range (as well as second wind and action surge) ASAP since I don't know how long the campaign will last but I'm certain we won't get to lv. 15 let alone 20) and go to fighter 4 at lv. 9 for PM.

[samcifer]

Also, I was able to land a crit and has a half-orc, tit was very satisfying to roll 3d10 for damage with my glaive. I managed to get 27 dmg. on a cyclops. :)

[samcifer]

*sigh* So that campaign's done after only 3 sessions. Our DM finally managed to snag his dream job of being a bartender, but his hours will have him working until 10pm, which is too late to start, so we had to end the campaign and will now be starting a supernatural detective campaign under a different player as dm. Who knows? I might keep this character for that campaign as well. Not sure yet.

[samcifer]

Well, after some time to think it over, I'll just re-work this build for the new investigation-focused campaign (yet another homebrew one as we never seem to play pre-made modules in my group).

I'll go with the City Watch background from SCAG and take the Investigator option that replaces prof. in athletics with prof. in investigation. He'll be a former police detective who was kicked off the force for being to 'barbarian-esque' in how he dealt with his duties as a detective and is now looking for a new but similar line of work.

We'll be starting off at lv. 5 with the pre-set stat arrangement before racial bonuses:

18, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 10. As a Half-Orc, I can be at 20 strength right away for:

STR: 20, DEX: 14, CON: 17, INT: 10, WIS: 12, CHA: 10 and will take GWM as my lv. 4 asi/feat option with either a greataxe or, preferably, a glaive. Then for lvs. 6 - 9, I'll go fighter 4 for increased crit range as a champion and Great Weapon Master for the chance to roll higher damage on weapon dice, and take Polearm Master at lv. 9 for my first and only fighter asi/feat, then go back to barbarian for the rest of my levels (assuming we make it that far. We tend to only go up a few levels per campaign in my group before the end or are abandoned, hence my going for the improved crit then a second feat asap before going up further in barbarian. At barb 12, I might go Resilient WIS or 1 each in CON and WIS for more hp, a bump up on CON saves and enough AC to go unarmored (will take chainmail to start with).