3.P - TO - How Would You Weaponize Starstuff?

[unseenmage]

How would you weaponize starstuff?

Some time ago my group had access to a PF technology artifact called the Divinity Drive (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentTechArtifactsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Divini ty%20Drive) which creates wormholes.

Sadly, I was informed that I could not use it to grab star stuff and flash fry our enemies because the wormhole wasn't long (deep?) enough.

Was just watching this video about such things (https://youtu.be/J0ldO87Pprc) and it occured to me to ask the Playground if they could weaponize star stuff and how they'd do it.

Any 3.x, PF are fine. Including Dragon, Dungeon, and WotC archive material.
Spelljammer assumed but if you have a way to bring the sun to earth without going to it then by all means please elaborate.

[Deophaun]

Use it to sterilize all life in the galaxy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtFnWh53z0

[Mr Adventurer]

Gate spell?

[Caudex Capite]

Since the Divinity Drive explicitly works like Gate, it seems unlikely his DM would let Gate work if he doesn't let the Drive work, unless the DM's issue with the Drive is that the gate can't be placed deep in a gravity well. Gate does avoid that problem... but I'd really recommend against opening a Gate into a star if you don't have an instantaneous teleport effect triggered by casting it. I don't think there are RAW numbers for stellar plasma damage, but I'd lean heavily towards no-save just die to everything in an enormous area, if you open it inside the star, at least. I'm sure the fluid dynamics of trying to force plasma at the pressure of a stellar core through a Gate are... interesting, to say the least, but it wouldn't surprise me if this could scour all life from a continent.

[satorian]

As far as I can tell, it is not settled that matter on the other side of a Gate spontaneously passes through. If real world physics existed, any pressurized region would be a gamewinner weapon. Core of the earth, bottom of a sea, whatever. But a little ursory Googling seems to show most people arguing against this interpretation, from a DnD physics isn't real world physics position.

I would interpret Gate as saying an act of will by a mind (even an animal mind) is magically required to pass through a gate, even if the act of will is "I am a bee, and I'm going to fly that way now".

[unseenmage]

As far as I can tell, it is not settled that matter on the other side of a Gate spontaneously passes through. If real world physics existed, any pressurized region would be a gamewinner weapon. Core of the earth, bottom of a sea, whatever. But a little ursory Googling seems to show most people arguing against this interpretation, from a DnD physics isn't real world physics position.

I would interpret Gate as saying an act of will by a mind (even an animal mind) is magically required to pass through a gate, even if the act of will is "I am a bee, and I'm going to fly that way now".

For what its worth permanent gates do not allow materials to pass through. Excepting a single exemption in a random book I cannot remember that sets precedent that they can be made to do so. (Underdark maybe?)

[Mr Adventurer]

I'm not arguing against that interpretation, but: so mindless creatures (e.g. lesser undead) can't pass through a gate?

[unseenmage]

Hmm, how to get the 3.0 spell Minor Servitor with its 3.0 'volume of material' targeting within range of the core material of a star...? That way the starstuff is a creature and we can do creature stuff to it and/or dispel the animating magics at an opportune time returning it to pure unmagiced starstuff

[Menzath]

I'm not arguing against that interpretation, but: so mindless creatures (e.g. lesser undead) can't pass through a gate?

In that sense I think I would allow things moving by an animated force to still go thru. Like golems, dancing intelligent weapons, undead, animated objects or plants and the like.

But, why try and go through all the crazy of bringing starstuff to you, when if you know it's composition just use polymorph any object to make a small amount very far away from you, with possible a contingent teleport for when the spell effect goes off.

Or maybe make some in a chest/box made of force/riverine, that you use some sort of reinforced gate rings to aim at people/things with a force/riverine covering.

[Telonius]

I'm envisioning some starstuff as the ammunition in a Commoner Railgun. Massive object at FTL speeds, already hot enough to create fusion - last commoner in line drops it into a bucket of Quintessence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm).

Congratulations, you now have access to Gallifreyan technology (https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_Harmony). :smallbiggrin:

[martixy]

Can you define "starstuff"?

Because as it stands it doesn't carry any more meaning than a synonym for "matter".

In which case: Matter can be weaponized in a variety of ways. For example taking some of it and making a weapon. Also making a dude who wields the weapon.

It all depends on the kind of matter and it's arrangement. You can do so many things with matter, really! And seeing as how matter is also not much more than congealed energy, you can actually do even more things!

[unseenmage]

Can you define "starstuff"?

Because as it stands it doesn't carry any more meaning than a synonym for "matter".

In which case: Matter can be weaponized in a variety of ways. For example taking some of it and making a weapon. Also making a dude who wields the weapon.

It all depends on the kind of matter and it's arrangement. You can do so many things with matter, really! And seeing as how matter is also not much more than congealed energy, you can actually do even more things!

Starstuff as related to the video linked in the OP. Super hot stuff in a star.

[martixy]

Starstuff as related to the video linked in the OP. Super hot stuff in a star.

Ah, Kurzgezagt. Good people.

Can we just call it "superheated plasma"? You're triggering my inner physicist with this "starstuff". And my outward one.

Let's go full Kurzgezagt then.

They already covered the basic, explodey scenario.

I'll cover the second scenario:
You are able to contain the superheated plasma. You produce a ball of superheated plasma 2 feet in diameter.

Effects:
Congratulations. You now have a sphere of annihilation. With some extra effects. Well, really one extra effect - radiation, and its accompanying implications.

We'll consider the sphere a blackbody (that means an object that only absorbs and radiates energy, but does not reflect it). The amount of radiation, and it's spectrum depends on the temperature and surface area (blackbodies radiate in a continuous spectrum - different intensities at different wavelengths). As defined our surface area is ~1.167 m2. That leaves only the matter of temperature.

At 6000K you're still comfortably in the visible spectrum and radiating a good amount of blinding light. About ~86 MW in total to be precise, Close to 40% of which is visible light.
This is one VERY high Fort save vs blinding. Not to mention the sheer energy output. I wouldn't even peg it as fire specifically, though that might be a good idea for game system related reasons (heat damage might model the effects on objects better). In any case, you're looking at something around, what, 20d6 worth of damage per round? At least. I'd peg falloff at around 1d6 per 10 feet of distance. Or create custom distance zones that more closely resemble the inverse square law.

Things are still manageable and usable at this point. This is the last time it is so.

At 2,000,000K your peak emission wavelength (the wavelength at which the most power is radiated) is veering dangerously close to X-ray territory. These are not the "I see through things" X-rays, these are the "Ionizing radiation, burn not just your skin, but your organs as well" X-rays. Not to mention the sheer power output, which is now in the Exawatt range, that is 1e+18 W. This burns you, your family and the neighbouring nation to a crisp. Atmosphere turns to hot plasma in a wide radius. Damage at ground zero is a few thousand d6s (hope you brought your dice bag, and your friends, and the 3 nearest FLGS dice dispensers). About twice as hot as Hellfire, which pierces fire immunity.

At 15,000,000K peak wavelength is deep into X-ray territory (a frequency of ~1.55 EHz, or ~1.55e+18 Hz). We're past the apocalypse here. Total power is... a lot. Damage levels are... mommy! Chuck Norris starts sweating. There really isn't a whole lot of sensible things you can say at this point.

[Mr Adventurer]

Nah, it'd be 10d6, same as being in the Plane of Fire

[unseenmage]

Hmm, assuming you can get line of effect to it, then get the changed material away from the rest of it one could theoretically use the Shrink Item spell with the cloth form option to make the stuff manageable.

So long as a shrink Item-ed campfire isnt still hot this shouldn't be.

EDIT

Nah, it'd be 10d6, same as being in the Plane of Fire
This reminded me that the Distant Worlds book for PF exists. IIRC it says that unless one is completely fire immune they are 'instantly vaporized' upon contact with the sun.

[martixy]

Nah, it'd be 10d6, same as being in the Plane of Fire

Plane of Fire ain't got nothing on the Sun, boi.

It houses the City of Brass. Brass has a melting point of ~1200K. It's continued existence there means the plane's temperature is lower than that. Long way away from even 6000K.

[unseenmage]

So, is an animated fire still hot?

Is animated stellar material still going to asplode when exposed to lower pressure?

What about animated deep sea water when brought directly to the surface?

Does animated water evaporate or freeze?

Animating magics that impose a size category would seem to prohibit expansion from physics as that could change the size category.

That or the physics win and the animating magics stop functioning as soon as the material expands beyond the original size threshold.

AND ALSO EDIT
From the PF space stuff book...

Distant Worlds (page 5)

The sun should be avoided by all but the most powerful adventurers. In the face of the star’s nuclear fires, spells such as resist energy, protection from energy, and planetary adaptation are useless—only complete immunity to fire allows a creature to survive the immense heat (see spells such as fiery body in the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide). Any creatures or items not immune to fire are instantly and utterly consumed down to the molecular level—only spells such as wish or true resurrection can bring back such victims.

Flame, however, is only one of the sun’s dangers. Travelers must also contend with the fact that while the sun has various layers organized by density, it has no true surface to stand on. As such, only creatures with the ability to fly via magic can navigate its wastes, with all others drawn straight down into the flames. Lacking an atmosphere, the sun offers nothing to breathe. And it has so much more mass than Golarion that its gravity is literally crushing—while amorphous creatures may not have to worry, mundane life forms find that blood ceases to flow, lungs are too weak to inflate, and bodies implode like breached submarines.

Because of poorly understood magical connections between the sun and the Plane of Fire, however, creatures native to that realm do not seem to suffer from any of these additional effects, and can often swim and dive in the sun’s crushing plasma as easily as marine animals in a terrestrial sea.

Creatures from Golarion who manage to visit the sun safely typically use powerful magic such as wish to create temporary magic diving bells similar to cubes of force but immune to fire and crushing damage, or transform themselves into creatures native to the Plane of Fire and thus gain those creatures’ immunities.

My GM suggested we might use the Frostburn spell Iceberg as the template for how this stuff interacts with Golarion.

For outer layer stellar material probably just loads of damage and fire.
For inner stellar material even more damage and fire and probably a disintegrate effect on the target/center.
For core stellar material it's just all disintegrate over a very big area.

[Deophaun]

Lacking an atmosphere...
Well, that's wrong.

And it has so much more mass than Golarion that its gravity is literally crushing
And any high schooler will tell you that gravity is a function of mass and distance, so this may or may not be true (a red giant could have mass equal to or lesser than our Sun, but a radius out to Earth's orbit: do you find the current gravitational pull of the sun on you to be "crushing" right now?).

Disappointing stuff. Hopefully they aren't charging for it.