[3.5] DMM - healer/buffer: chain or persistent?

[Liseah]

Hi guys! Gotta ask for a help.

I'm actually playing a campaign between planes, above 20+ lv oriented. My DM allowed those manuals:
- core (PHB, MM I, DMG)
- complete arcane, divine, warrior and adventurer
- BoED and BoVD
- planar handbook

And you can take one only prestige class.

I'm starting from lv10 and the alignment is strictly neutral. I was oriented to choose a human cleric, apostate, as the role of healer/buffer.
My DM didn't allow me to take the domain for extra turning, but I can pick up planning, so I have the extend feat as free. I must take travel domain too because we have no casters for this purpose.
I was thinking about those feats:
- extended spells (free)
- augment healing (my DM allows every tick of vigor to be improved by this one)
- sacred boost (can't abuse of hierophant skill because the alignment in the group is splitted up between true neutral and chaotic)
- extra turning
- persistent or chain (my DM didn't allow to persist mass lesser vigor due the max rounds)
- DMM persistent or chain

I can't really choose what's better between persistent and chain. I can start with +5 CHA, but my DM doesnn't allow to take magic items so easily, so I'm not sure how much I can improve my stat.
Based on my concept, at lv 17 I could have 2 more extra turning (I must use a feat to take reach spell or one level as hierophant at least) and that means a total of 21 turn undead (if I use eagle's splendor). My party is used to fight really close to each other, focusing on the same target if there are multiple enemies.


Any comments or hints are appreciated. I've read a lot of topics about, but I hardly found someone w/o nightsticks and focused on this build anyway.
Thanks in advice!

[Anthrowhale]

They are both good, but it depends on your character concept in more detail.

If your goal is being a melee monster or maximize personal immunity, then definitely persistent spell. If your goal is enhancing party members, then probably chain spell. If you want to replace magic items the stingy DM isn't providing, then probably persistent spell. If you want to be able to attack via spell as well then definitely Chain Spell.

Note that Reach spell is good on a cleric anyways, since you have so many touch spells, but it combines great with Persistent Spell (since touch spells become persistable) and Chain Spell (since touch spells become chainable).

Your DM may be allowing Dweomerkeeper, which is in the web edition of Complete Divine. The most straightforward way to access this is via Wizard 1/Cleric 4/DK 5 which would give you one supernatural spell per day. Supernatural spell is amazing because you can ignore components (like xp or gold), SR, and dispel magic.

I'd suggest ditching Sacred Boost and Augment Healing. It's better to invest in Extra Turning and get an extra persistent or two extra chain spells, or an extra chain spell plus an ocular spell. Think of a DMM[Chain] Reach Magic Vestment under the effect of a prayer bead of karma making every shield and armor in the party +3 for 10 hours/day.

[Liseah]

First: thanks for your reply!
Second: Errr, my master would never allow something on the web edition but not in the physical copy. I forgot to mention it... what a pity, your idea was intriguing.


We have a lot of ranged and melee dps, so my goals are heal and buff my party, just leaving the attack on target in case of emergency, because we have really too many focused to destroy the enemies.
The incoming damage with this DM is always crazy and augument healing + sacred boost saved so many lives (the same party and a character similar to this one: they were grappled by a dragon and I couldn't reach or see them... my DM allowed me to use mass lesser cure wounds and I just maximixed it. Three times and the dragon was dead and everyone survived) I need to heal as much as I can every time I cast a cure, but I'll consider your scenario definitely.
I know for higher levels would be great, for example, chain a Heal and chain the buffs instead of use a cure wounds, even if maximized but... well, I'm not sure the party will survive through the process tho xD. My party members don't think a lot about tactics (except for one or two) so I need to heal like a crazy even if we are fighting lower GS (doesn't happen often: my DM likes to use a lot of manuals against us).
And we are finding armors and weapons +2... he doesn't let us take magic items for stats, but weapons and armors are not a problem if you have the money.

[Anthrowhale]

Maybe you want DMM[Reach] instead. The core difficulty is that most buff-others spells have a touch range which works with nothing. You could potentially afford a lesser metamagic rod of Chain Spell allowing you to Chain + Reach touch spells of L3 or less 3 times per day.

Or, maybe you want to drop one of the healing boosters for Reach, take DMM[Persist], and buy a lesser metamagic rod of chain spell. That way you have access to both since you can straight up memorize Reach Magic Vestment (for example) at level 10, then cast it with the rod. Potentially, you could even get off a Persistent Chain Reach Spikes to make a ton of extra damaging wooden weapons.

Incidentally, a good tactic for you might be Chain Heartache. You can render many foes helpless for a round and your party can Coup de Grace.

[Crake]

First: thanks for your reply!
Second: Errr, my master would never allow something on the web edition but not in the physical copy.

It's worth noting it's not actually a web edition, but rather a web enhancement, and is official, 1st party supplemental rules.

[Liseah]

It's worth noting it's not actually a web edition, but rather a web enhancement, and is official, 1st party supplemental rules.

I see, I tried to ask and the answer was "cool, but nope." T_T I gave it a chance anyway.




Maybe you want DMM[Reach] instead. The core difficulty is that most buff-others spells have a touch range which works with nothing. You could potentially afford a lesser metamagic rod of Chain Spell allowing you to Chain + Reach touch spells of L3 or less 3 times per day.

Or, maybe you want to drop one of the healing boosters for Reach, take DMM[Persist], and buy a lesser metamagic rod of chain spell. That way you have access to both since you can straight up memorize Reach Magic Vestment (for example) at level 10, then cast it with the rod. Potentially, you could even get off a Persistent Chain Reach Spikes to make a ton of extra damaging wooden weapons.

Incidentally, a good tactic for you might be Chain Heartache. You can render many foes helpless for a round and your party can Coup de Grace.


Every spells with [evil] or [good] in the description are "a boomerang" with my DM. We must be stricly neutral cause of the setup between the planes and he told us: "if you use a evil/good spell, I'll go down blunty on your alignment." Anyway we already have a kind of controller.
High price, but I'll consider to buy a metamagic rod of chain spell, because well... I think it's TOO useful with reach spell XD. Probably this is the best combo in my case.

[Anthrowhale]

Contemplative might be a good prestige class for you. The primary draw is the extra domains, although there are a number of other benefits as well. Domains are most valuable when you are a deityless cleric since you are unrestrained in your choice of domains. Put the entrance requirements into your backstory.

It's reasonable to stay pure cleric as well---that would allow your turn undead to actually remain useful against undead.