Wait, what?

[5crownik007]

Post your favorite double takes or things that made you say "Wait, what?" when reading OOTS.
Most recently for me:
https://i.gyazo.com/4f48818d0d2e72bc505ff185418c72ce.png
(i still have no clue)

[Ruck]

Post your favorite double takes or things that made you say "Wait, what?" when reading OOTS.
Most recently for me:
https://i.gyazo.com/4f48818d0d2e72bc505ff185418c72ce.png
(i still have no clue)

There was a whole thread about this one that got merged into the 1154 thread. Like, two days ago. "Ruminant boob drippings" = cow milk.

[5crownik007]

There was a whole thread about this one that got merged into the 1154 thread. Like, two days ago. "Ruminant boob drippings" = cow milk.

I feel really stupid because I still don't get it.

[Mad Humanist]

I feel really stupid because I still don't get it.

Translated the conversation goes:

Haley: Ok, I had to get him a glass of warm milk to settle him down, but Elan's resting now.

Blackwing: And, V's trancing without any milk.

I guess the joke is that in some sense both Haley and Blackwing are parental figures of Elan and V respectively. In the case of Blackwing it is more of a moral guardian role but that is still a parental role.

The other part of the joke is that Blackwing does not say "milk" but the far more verbose "ruminant boob droppings". This is not just verbose but also contemptuous in line with the way Blackwing has been contemptuous of mammals - especially in his admiration for dinosaurs.

So I suppose I have cut up the joke into three pieces and now that my work is finished you are welcome to glue it back together.

[Quebbster]

I figured it was a variant of the theme of one of my favorite Calvin and Hobbes strips:
http://i.imgur.com/Iv7uOhE.jpg
IE Blackwing finds the habit of drinking milk rather puzzling.

Also, I have to Point out that "ruminant" does not necessarily mean "cow". Goats and sheep are ruminants too. (Yeah, I just consulted the Dictionary and learned what that Word means...)

[Mad Humanist]

I figured it was a variant of the theme of one of my favorite Calvin and Hobbes strips:
http://i.imgur.com/Iv7uOhE.jpg
IE Blackwing finds the habit of drinking milk rather puzzling.

Also, I have to Point out that "ruminant" does not necessarily mean "cow". Goats and sheep are ruminants too. (Yeah, I just consulted the Dictionary and learned what that Word means...)

Sadly "ruminant" does not include "camel" which would beautifully link back to an earlier joke.

Apparently it does also mean:

"a contemplative person; a person given to meditation." so it might be a reference to V in a round about way.

[martianmister]

Non-Mammal sapient creature hates Mammals.

Yes, that's the joke.

[Peelee]

Non-Mammal sapient creature hates Mammals.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090602.gif

[Fyraltari]

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090602.gif

How heroic. They did fend one off.

[Goblin_Priest]

Post your favorite double takes or things that made you say "Wait, what?" when reading OOTS.
Most recently for me:
https://i.gyazo.com/4f48818d0d2e72bc505ff185418c72ce.png
(i still have no clue)

He's saying V is anatomically a male. :elan:

[Aveline]

He's saying V is anatomically a male. :elan:

Take that back.

[RatElemental]

He's saying V is anatomically a male. :elan:

I know this is a joke but usually even jokes have some kind of logic to follow. I have no idea how this line could lead one to conclude V is male.

[martianmister]

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090602.gif

And that was their own fault.
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100329.gif

[Peelee]

And that was their own fault.


Hold on, I think we can construct a narrative here.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100329.gif

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1521988858-20180325.png

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090602.gif

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100619.gif

[NerdyKris]

I know this is a joke but usually even jokes have some kind of logic to follow. I have no idea how this line could lead one to conclude V is male.

I think because people are misunderstanding what "ruminant" means. If you don't know what the word means, it looks like the sentence is talking about Vaarsuvius's breasts, or lack thereof.

[Goblin_Priest]

I think because people are misunderstanding what "ruminant" means. If you don't know what the word means, it looks like the sentence is talking about Vaarsuvius's breasts, or lack thereof.

To be honest, I can't even remember what made me think to say that, probably someone else's comment (that wasn't quoted). I know what a ruminant is, though I'm not sure why it was brought up (baby is still breastfed, Hylgia isn't a ruminant, Durkon's mom was offering carrots, I believe, not milk, so where did the ruminant milk come from and why?).

[Fyraltari]

To be honest, I can't even remember what made me think to say that, probably someone else's comment (that wasn't quoted). I know what a ruminant is, though I'm not sure why it was brought up (baby is still breastfed, Hylgia isn't a ruminant, Durkon's mom was offering carrots, I believe, not milk, so where did the ruminant milk come from and why?).

Kudzu may still be breastfed (not sure actually), but Elan certainly isn't.

[Quebbster]

Kudzu may still be breastfed (not sure actually), but Elan certainly isn't.

Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions about what Elan and Haley does during their alone time. It's their business, no one elses.

[Goblin_Priest]

Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions about what Elan and Haley does during their alone time. It's their business, no one elses.

Well Haley isn't a ruminant (that we know of), and hasn't given birth (that we know of), so, probabilities considered and all, seems like a fair assumption to me that she's not feeding him ruminant boob drippings.

But... wait, why did Elan need to settle down and rest? Seems like a pretty poor time to be doing that.

[Lord Torath]

Needs to recover spells. It's been a long night, and they're just getting started...

[Peelee]

Well Haley isn't a ruminant (that we know of), and hasn't given birth (that we know of), so, probabilities considered and all, seems like a fair assumption to me that she's not feeding him ruminant boob drippings.

But... wait, why did Elan need to settle down and rest? Seems like a pretty poor time to be doing that.

Because they've had one hell of a day, and it's almost the next day.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Because lack of sleep significantly impairs cognitive ability, and Elan is already pushing it in that regard.

Grey Wolf

[Quebbster]

Well Haley isn't a ruminant (that we know of), and hasn't given birth (that we know of), so, probabilities considered and all, seems like a fair assumption to me that she's not feeding him ruminant boob drippings.
She's clearly half-ruminant, half-celestial. And there's probably a wand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html) or something to solve the other problem.

But... wait, why did Elan need to settle down and rest? Seems like a pretty poor time to be doing that.
Rule of funny? Or did he need to refresh his spell slots or something?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Or did he need to refresh his spell slots or something?

RAW, he does - IIRC, casters need like 8 hours of resting/sleeping before they can refresh spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html) or slots or pray (I'm guessing being dead counts as having been resting on one's laurels for Durkon).

Grey Wolf

[Morgaln]

I think because people are misunderstanding what "ruminant" means. If you don't know what the word means, it looks like the sentence is talking about Vaarsuvius's breasts, or lack thereof.

Probably made worse by the similarity between "ruminant" and "remnant," so on a casual reading people might think it's referring to vestigial organs.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Hold on, I think we can construct a narrative here.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100329.gif

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1521988858-20180325.png

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090602.gif

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100619.gif

I think you can fit this (https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-08-28) somewhere in your narrative too.

[Goblin_Priest]

RAW, he does - IIRC, casters need like 8 hours of resting/sleeping before they can refresh spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html) or slots or pray (I'm guessing being dead counts as having been resting on one's laurels for Durkon).

Grey Wolf

Uh, I probably just don't remember the part where they explain it... but isn't time of the essence here? How on earth can they afford to sleep on it 8 hours when the Council is meeting up already?

[Yirggzmb]

Uh, I probably just don't remember the part where they explain it... but isn't time of the essence here? How on earth can they afford to sleep on it 8 hours when the Council is meeting up already?

1) When they said they were going to rest, there was still enough time in which to do so. I believe it was still night time, and the meeting isn't scheduled until midmorning. Since they're expecting a fight they decided it was better to refresh spells than to rush off and possibly get caught without enough to win. Perhaps a bit of a gamble, but it's one of those tough calls either way.

2) There may or may not have been a time skip since moving to see what the vampires are up to. It might be just before the meeting... or it could still be nighttime and some of the dwarves are showing up early. Until it's explicitly said, we can't know for sure.

3) Everything runs at the speed of plot. OOtS will show up exactly when the Giant needs them to, and not a moment before. :P

[TownCrierDD]

I almost hope that nobody here actually engages in RPGs themselves. How little focus do any of you people have that not one of you have been able to actually respond to the OP about the actual topic? How is everybody STILL this hard up about "ruminant drippings"?? (and no; that is not an invite for a crass snigger!) Just...why??

The earliest "Wait, what?" that I can remember from OotS was the Polearm Emporium strip. I didn't get the parallel with Monty Python, having not watched any of the show yet, and while it was funny even not knowing that, I was in a state of just-going-with-it as I had no idea what to make of it.

[Peelee]

I almost hope that nobody here actually engages in RPGs themselves. How little focus do any of you people have that not one of you have been able to actually respond to the OP about the actual topic?

I will defend my SMBC tangent with my life, sirrah!

[Goblin_Priest]

1) When they said they were going to rest, there was still enough time in which to do so. I believe it was still night time, and the meeting isn't scheduled until midmorning. Since they're expecting a fight they decided it was better to refresh spells than to rush off and possibly get caught without enough to win. Perhaps a bit of a gamble, but it's one of those tough calls either way.

2) There may or may not have been a time skip since moving to see what the vampires are up to. It might be just before the meeting... or it could still be nighttime and some of the dwarves are showing up early. Until it's explicitly said, we can't know for sure.

3) Everything runs at the speed of plot. OOtS will show up exactly when the Giant needs them to, and not a moment before. :P

"There's going to be this vital vote to destroy the world, and it's really close, and the ones responsible for corrupting it just left, so... let's go sleep, guys!"

Wait, what?

Yes, I vaguely remember them saying they'd rest to regain spell slots...

But it doesn't seem to me like they used all that many. And most importantly, taking time to prepare, gives time to prepare. If they were quick, you could simply prevent the vampires from dominating folks. And preventing the elders from entering the building and thus get dominated.

Plus the enemies are dwarves, so... 20ft speed. The closer the target location is, the less sense it makes to sleep right next to it while villains do their things, but the farther it is, the more it means that the Order could have just caught up with them before they even reach it. The Order is patched up, and the vamps lost most of their big guns.

[Peelee]

"There's going to be this vital vote to destroy the world, and it's really close, and the ones responsible for corrupting it just left, so... let's go sleep, guys!"

"Also, we know exactly what their plan is, to the specific detail, along with how the vote is conducted and when it takes place. So we know for a fact whether we have the time to rest, and gain the benefits thereof, and whether it'll be worth it."

Of course, that part kind of obliterates your objections, so I can see why you didn't include it.

[Ruck]

I almost hope that nobody here actually engages in RPGs themselves. How little focus do any of you people have that not one of you have been able to actually respond to the OP about the actual topic? How is everybody STILL this hard up about "ruminant drippings"?? (and no; that is not an invite for a crass snigger!) Just...why??

Well, my answer to the actual OP is pretty boring. I didn't have a lot of direct experience with D&D before reading OOTS, so my moments where I didn't understand what was going on were more about actual D&D rules I then looked up.

[Verappo]

Well, my answer to the actual OP is pretty boring. I didn't have a lot of direct experience with D&D before reading OOTS, so my moments where I didn't understand what was going on were more about actual D&D rules I then looked up.

Oof, tell me about it. I knew nothing about D&D then and assumed this was just a parody of general videogame tropes. The "I believe we are being converted to 3.5 edition" joke flew right over my head, so day one was a Wait, What moment for me.

[RatElemental]

"There's going to be this vital vote to destroy the world, and it's really close, and the ones responsible for corrupting it just left, so... let's go sleep, guys!"

Wait, what?

Yes, I vaguely remember them saying they'd rest to regain spell slots...

But it doesn't seem to me like they used all that many. And most importantly, taking time to prepare, gives time to prepare. If they were quick, you could simply prevent the vampires from dominating folks. And preventing the elders from entering the building and thus get dominated.

Plus the enemies are dwarves, so... 20ft speed. The closer the target location is, the less sense it makes to sleep right next to it while villains do their things, but the farther it is, the more it means that the Order could have just caught up with them before they even reach it. The Order is patched up, and the vamps lost most of their big guns.

The order was pretty drained of high level slots. Of particular note is that all of V's 8th level slots (except maybe the specialist slot) were used up, and the mind blanks as well as all the other defensive buffs they had used were all dispelled. Additionally, Durkon probably doesn't have much left because of how many slots Greg used setting up the failed ambush.

If the order rushed in without resting, they'd be low on healing, likely have little to no magical defenses and ways to restore level drain, and would be facing at least three vampires and probably the dominated guards. I think it's quite likely this scene is after a time skip and the order is on their way right now anyway.

[understatement]

I literally almost called it quits after Strips 1-6 -- the D&D terminology was waay too much of a turn-off. Strip 7 made me keep going.

Best decision ever.

[Peelee]

I literally almost called it quits after Strips 1-6 -- the D&D terminology was waay too much of a turn-off. Strip 7 made me keep going.

Best decision ever.

I was all prepared for you to end that with "I'm somewhat pleased with that decision."

[Verappo]

I was all prepared for you to end that with "I'm somewhat pleased with that decision."

this joke is fairly... What's a synonym for "subtle"?

[Goblin_Priest]

"Also, we know exactly what their plan is, to the specific detail, along with how the vote is conducted and when it takes place. So we know for a fact whether we have the time to rest, and gain the benefits thereof, and whether it'll be worth it."

Of course, that part kind of obliterates your objections, so I can see why you didn't include it.

Not really, but, sure, I guess we'll have to go along with that.

[Peelee]

Not really, but, sure, I guess we'll have to go along with that.

... Yes really? Durkon knows everything that the vampire did and said. He knows everything, and there's zero reason to believe he hasn't shared.

[Goblin_Priest]

... Yes really? Durkon knows everything that the vampire did and said. He knows everything, and there's zero reason to believe he hasn't shared.

The Exarch is no longer under his control, if he still was at that point. He is autonomous, as may or may not be some of his underlings.

Neither had any reason to be super familiar with how the council works, either. Even vamped underlings are likely to not necessarily be aware of the details.

In conflicts, things frequently go beyond the Plan. There are too many potential variables to account for them all. People continuously adapt to the situation before them. Luck doesn't always go as we expect it to be. And when entering unfamiliar grounds, learning new things that influence strategy is likely.

There's quite a difference between "I know the details of the plans we had elaborated" and "I know the details of the events that will unfold". You've gotta be pretty damn confident in your plan to be able to take the time to sleep while your enemy is right next door trying to undo the world. After all, you may know the plans of the enemy, but soon they will know that you know the plan, and will be able to modify it in an unpredictable way. And they don't sleep, so they'll be able to use those 8 extra hours to prepare your probably predictable counter.

[Peelee]

The Exarch is no longer under his control, if he still was at that point. He is autonomous, as may or may not be some of his underlings.
So the incredibly specific ways they can work within the rules are now out the window for no reason?

Neither had any reason to be super familiar with how the council works, either. Even vamped underlings are likely to not necessarily be aware of the details.

Dude, they have the book that details how the council works! If you're going to blatantly misrepresent the situation, at least do it in ways not directly contradicted in the comic.

[Goblin_Priest]

So the incredibly specific ways they can work within the rules are now out the window for no reason?


Dude, they have the book that details how the council works! If you're going to blatantly misrepresent the situation, at least do it in ways not directly contradicted in the comic.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"Never put off to tomorrow what you can do today"

There's more at play than mere rules (did they even read the whole book? when?). The vamps could be booby-trapping the whole passage, for all they know. Summoning more minions. Going off to vamp more dwarves that live/work nearby. Collapsing passages. Thinking of new ways to game the rules.

Just sayin'. At our table, if we tell the GM "oh, before going next door to foil the bad guy, we'll just sleep here first to regain resources", it would never end well.

[Peelee]

There's more at play than mere rules (did they even read the whole book? when?). The vamps could be booby-trapping the whole passage, for all they know. Summoning more minions. Going off to vamp more dwarves that live/work nearby. Collapsing passages. Thinking of new ways to game the rules.
Oh look, nearly all things that would make it harder for the elders they need to get there as well. Are we assuming the vampires don't want their own plan to work?

Just sayin'. At our table, if we tell the GM "oh, before going next door to foil the bad guy, we'll just sleep here first to regain resources", it would never end well.

A.) "We've cleared the dungeon and sealed the entrance, the bad guy next door will be busy doing X until a precise time later." If the players are able to perform well enough to secure a rest, then just throwing more crap at them isn't necessarily good DMing; that can easily cross over into robbing the PCs of their agency. "Don't deviate from the DM's plan or you will be punished" mentality.

2.) Regardless, this isn't a game, it's a story. Basing your expectations on what would happen if you did this is one of your games is likely to be a poor indicator to begin with.

[Lord Torath]

The Exarch is no longer under his control, if he still was at that point. He is autonomous, as may or may not be some of his underlings.The ExExarch is very lawful, and is an exceptional follower (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html). He's not going to be going rogue, or even improvising a little bit from Durkula's plan.


Neither had any reason to be super familiar with how the council works, either. Even vamped underlings are likely to not necessarily be aware of the details.They literally have the book on how the Council runs, and all the fiddly little details and rules.



In conflicts, things frequently go beyond the Plan. There are too many potential variables to account for them all. People continuously adapt to the situation before them. Luck doesn't always go as we expect it to be. And when entering unfamiliar grounds, learning new things that influence strategy is likely.I have seen no sign of this. And the ExExarch is such a follower, I'm sure he'd have pointed out if things were different than the Deep-Fanged Friar had instructed (panel 11 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html)).

[georgie_leech]

I think you can fit this (https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-08-28) somewhere in your narrative too.

Clearly Act I of the sequel, Extinction 2: Dinosaurs Bite Back.

[Peelee]

Clearly Act I of the sequel, Extinction 2: Dinosaurs Bite Back.

Indeed. The plot then evolves into the dinos getting their advanced tech back and going into the Asteroid dimension. We tried to make it into a single movie, but the runtime was just way too long.

[Goblin_Priest]

The ExExarch is very lawful, and is an exceptional follower (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html). He's not going to be going rogue, or even improvising a little bit from Durkula's plan.

They literally have the book on how the Council runs, and all the fiddly little details and rules.


I have seen no sign of this. And the ExExarch is such a follower, I'm sure he'd have pointed out if things were different than the Deep-Fanged Friar had instructed (panel 11 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html)).

Yes, and for how long have they had the book?

I have the Code Civil on hand, sure, I can skim through important parts to get a pretty good idea fairly fast, but if I wanted to find every exploitable loophole in it... it would take more than a few hours.

But that's pretty much all the time they've had. The Exarch has barely been vamped. Someone remind me how long, again? A few days at most, and I don't even think that. And we have never seen him read from it, that I recall, before the last strip. Sure, of course, there was probably reading off-panel. Also, the Exarch says he's taking memory from his host. But, that too isn't instantaneous.

And you know what else isn't instantaneous? Lecturing another (Durkon*). Who also had to prepare spells, vamp dwarves, draw traps, brief minions, etc.

So it's pretty fair to assume that the Exarch always knew more about the rules than Durkon* did. And it's also fair to assume that the Exarch learned more about the rules since they last departed. Because he's actively absorbing more memories from his host and he is reading from the rules.

I'm not at all talking about "going rogue". But more along the lines of "oh, wait, that thing we wanted to do, this rule I just learned about would prevent it, we need to adapt".

Heck, *we* barely know anything about the rules, but we already learned of some details that would favor immediate action. It's forbidden to use "a spell or supernatural ability on any creature during a council meeting". Well, if they got there before the meeting started, then they could cast the spell. Heck if they got there fast enough they could prevent the elders from getting dominated to begin with. They could cast "protection from evil" on them before they enter the blue room, for example.

Side question: what happens if V casts antimagic field and walks into these things, walking up to the elders in the council room?

[Peelee]

Yes, and for how long have they had the book?
Long enough for the Exarch to read through the entire thing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1111.html). That same comic also heavily implies that the head vamp knew more about the procedures than the Exarch did.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, and for how long have they had the book?

I have the Code Civil on hand, sure, I can skim through important parts to get a pretty good idea fairly fast, but if I wanted to find every exploitable loophole in it... it would take more than a few hours.

But that's pretty much all the time they've had. The Exarch has barely been vamped. Someone remind me how long, again? A few days at most, and I don't even think that. And we have never seen him read from it, that I recall, before the last strip. Sure, of course, there was probably reading off-panel. Also, the Exarch says he's taking memory from his host. But, that too isn't instantaneous.
The Exarch was vamped at the Moot which was more than one day ago.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1111.html) is when we first saw the book.*
The Exarch never says he is absorbing the rules from his host. Is it his line about "knowledge our dearly departed sire gave [him]" that makes you think that? Because he is talking about Durkon* there.


Heck, *we* barely know anything about the rules, but we already learned of some details that would favor immediate action. It's forbidden to use "a spell or supernatural ability on any creature during a council meeting". Well, if they got there before the meeting started, then they could cast the spell.
What spell?



Heck if they got there fast enough they could prevent the elders from getting dominated to begin with. They could cast "protection from evil" on them before they enter the blue room, for example.
The orange barrier would dispell it.

EDIT: *Dammit, Peelee!

[Dion]

Just sayin'. At our table, if we tell the GM "oh, before going next door to foil the bad guy, we'll just sleep here first to regain resources", it would never end well.

But what if you set a watch, and drew a comically overcomplicated map of the encampment?

And what if at least one of the players ALWAYS sneaks off during their watch to try to steal as much as they can (either from the monsters, or more often from the PCs) because “solo adventures are fun!”

Then would the DM allow you to setup camp?

Because in my experience, the DM allows you to setup camp then.

(*rolls dice* oh gee, missed my perception check. No, I’m sure I won’t notice my staff is gone in the morning. Yeah, I’m sure I have no reason at all to suspect the chaotic neutral drow who is constantly stealing everything. Yeah, you’re a great DM. No really. You have no reason to suspect I feel otherwise.)

[ShikomeKidoMi]

"Never put off to tomorrow what you can do today"

Ah yes, because "we just got the **** kicked out of us in that last fight, used up all our high level spells, and had most of the party knocked unconscious, let's race into another dangerous fight with no rest" is a perfect plan for successfully saving the world.