Paladin Rogue Multi Help

[BigPixie]

Please help me work with this both mechanically and thematically. (I need the bulk package)

[Rukelnikov]

Do you have any idea of what you wanna do?

Do you wanna fight ranged or melee? Wanna be the party's face? Do you know what else is in the party? What lvl are you aiming for?

[BigPixie]

I want mitral plate and to smite in the shadows. :smallbiggrin:

[Willie the Duck]

Please help me work with this both mechanically and thematically. (I need the bulk package)

Okay, first of all, we will need to know your starting parameters (what do you want to do with this, what character concept are you going for, etc.?). However, in the absence of anything else, I will work with my own suggestions.

Thematically--
Ideas that say paladin/rogue to me include:
"It takes a thief to catch a thief": you are part of team law-and-order, who just happens to know the tricks of the criminals you hunt (either because you used to be one of them, or simply picked up their skills).
"Good does not mean stupid": only the foolhardy knights of legend ride their steed up to the demon's lair and call it out to honorable (a word whose meaning it does not know) 1-on-1 combat. You're more likely to sneak in while it's sleeping, and wake it up with a holy smite to the face.
--spinoff: "Vengeance Paladin": Ends over means, including fighting dirty. 'nuff said.
"Temple ThiefRe-acquisitions Specialist": You are a daring adventuring scoundrel who steels great religious artifacts... back. Centuries of strife have caused the bones of saints and other holy relics to be dispersed amongst dungeons and the houses of the wealthy (who use them as glorified paperweights). You are tasked (by some holy order, or perhaps it is just your own personal quest) with retrieving these holy relics.


Mechanically--
Well, you will need at least a 13 Dex and 13 Strength to pull off the multiclass, so you might as well make yourself a light-medium armor-wearing martial who is decent at grappling. So Stealth and Athletics would be good uses for your first two Expertises (although either can be superseded by a thematically-important skill). You might want to decide how deeply you are going into Str or Dex from the beginning-- str 13, Dex-focused paladins are completely viable (and not having to dedicate ASIs to picking up GWM or PAM, like many Str-based paladins do, will help you with your MAD issues). Rogue SA certainly helps with the paladin's otherwise lackluster ranged attacks. OTOH, going Dex 14 (16 if you want to pick up Medium Armor Master) and maxing Str is not bad either. Look up Str-based rogues (Strogues) and all the tactics for them (a pali-rogue will be this, but maybe even better, although timing of ASIs might eat into any advantage).

As a general rule, paladin multiclasses work best by going to ~level 6, and the rest in the other class. A Vengence Paladin 1-6/ Arcane Trickster 1-14 (probably actually starting with a level in each before advancing the rest of paladin) is probably my suggestion. No advice on which to start with. Starting rogue gets you an extra skill. Starting paladin gets you heavy armor (that you probably don't want to wear), but also gets you proficiency in Wisdom saves (a stat you probably won't be boosting up high, like you very well might with Dex).

[Rukelnikov]

I want mitral plate and to smite in the shadows. :smallbiggrin:

Ok, is this for an AL game? Because if that's the case IDK how you can get a mithral plate, otherwise, there are many ways you can achieve this. From what you describe, I'd either go:

Rog1: Take expertise in Stealth, this enough to skulk around very effectively in mithral plate, and then you can do whichever pally build you want.

or

Rog3: Go Assassin, do whichever Pally build you want, that first round of crits means absurd smite damage.

If you wanna have more than 3 rogue levels, then Arcane Trickster could work for slots, or Swashbuckle for Cha synergy and solo sneaking

[Vorpalchicken]

The main challenge of the build is that it requires both a 13 strength and dexterity in order to qualify for multiclass. Since you want to be sneaky that probably means a 16 dexterity and a 13 strength to start. Half Elf is the obvious choice here.

The base half elf is fine but the drow blood variant from the SCAG would also be pretty cool with this build.

Your stats unfortunately are going to be spread a little thin.
Str 13 Dex 15+1 Con 12+1 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 14+2

I hate having an 8 Int but we want this character to survive so I brought constitution up as high as I could. The 13 Con lets you potentially take Resilient Con as a feat to even it out in the future but that is probably a long way off so if this is meant to not get very high level you could instead take 14 strength for slightly better jumping and climbing and carrying etc.

If you want to wear plate you have to start as a paladin. You can't afford a feat for armor proficiency. Normally I recommend going to at least 6th level before leaving the paladin class but if you want to get your concept off the ground early you could go rogue after 2 paladin levels. Depends a lot on how far you expect this campaign to go.

If you need to pick an oath, vengeance is nice early on. I also like the classic devotion paladin. Ancients is awesome at level 7 but underwhelming before that. If UA is on the table, Treachery is cool and thematic but don't count on it being allowed.

Take expertise in stealth when you get your rogue level. I might recommend deception too for added surprise opportunities.

For rogue Archetype I prefer the original thief for awesome mobility and mid combat slight of hand or maybe caltrop shenanigans. But since you are going for Smitey McStabsalot I recommend either Arcane Trickster (if you are limited to PHB +1 book, this is best for booming blade if you are drow blooded) or even assassin (which I normally hate.) If you can pull off surprise, you can be devastating. Some campaigns just don't hand out a lot of surprise chances though.

Paladin 2/ Rogue X is good for a mid-low split. Paladin 6 or 7/ Rogue X is good for higher level games.

Edit : the above assumes a point or build standard array. If you roll stats and get the crazy high rolls that everyone on here seems to get then things get a lot easier.

[CheddarChampion]

Here's what I'd do:
1 Vengeance Paladin, 5 Swashbuckler, 5 P, 2 S, 7 P
(Non-variant) Human: 13/16/15/10/10/14 to start.
Maximize Dex, take Res (Con), then boost Cha -or- take Mage Slayer / Sentinel / Mounted Combatant.
4d6 sneak attack, Extra Attack, IDS, Smiting
Uncanny Dodge, good AC with a shield, Evasion, Good "Strong" saves
5 skills, thieves' tools, 4 expertise
4th level paladin spells

Rapier + shield or dual wield shortswords.
Medium or light armor (or Mithral Plate if you can get it).
Play it as a lockdown build but where you try to get as many AoO's as possible.
You can cast haste on yourself for the standard multi-sneak-attack rogue trick (might be considered cheesy).

[CTurbo]

I would also go Vengeance Paladin/Swashbuckler Rogue. There is a lot of synergy between the two. Rapier and shield is obvious.

[BigPixie]

Here's what I'd do:
1 Vengeance Paladin, 5 Swashbuckler, 5 P, 2 S, 7 P
(Non-variant) Human: 13/16/15/10/10/14 to start.
Maximize Dex, take Res (Con), then boost Cha -or- take Mage Slayer / Sentinel / Mounted Combatant.
4d6 sneak attack, Extra Attack, IDS, Smiting
Uncanny Dodge, good AC with a shield, Evasion, Good "Strong" saves
5 skills, thieves' tools, 4 expertise
4th level paladin spells

Rapier + shield or dual wield shortswords.
Medium or light armor (or Mithral Plate if you can get it).
Play it as a lockdown build but where you try to get as many AoO's as possible.
You can cast haste on yourself for the standard multi-sneak-attack rogue trick (might be considered cheesy). I like this idea and I have revised my character image. (We aren't playing AL)