How many players are left in the game? [Potential Unmarked Spoilers]

[INoKnowNames]

Heh. Rich be crossing off names quicker than PUBG. And yet we still have a book or two left, to my knowledge.

So, title. It's been a minute since I've re-read the entire story, and I'd like a hand with a brief bit of role-call. Who all is still left that might be able/willing to act?

The Order, obviously. Some level shenanigans, and possibly 3 Clerics for the price of 1, but still solidly quasi-functional.

The Refuges of Azure City? Assuming Hinjo and any of the remaining Paladins are willing to provide some back up, rather than just scouting and taking care of alternate problems?

The Monster in the Dark, since he's actively sabotaging Team Evil at this point; he'll definitely come up in the future.

The Oracle's been a massive help before, though being a bit out of the way and mostly non-combat means he'll not be needed anymore, especially with the order having Thor giving Durkon the next objective points.

The Linear Guild is basically finished at this point, what with its leadership having several holes in it. I imagine that'll need to get sorted out, once the End of the World gets cleared up.

Likewise, the problem with the Empire of Blood, probably not something a group of adventurers can just clean up in a few sessions, will most likely have to wait. But at least Tarquinn and his gang don't seem to have been in the right place to intervene any further.

The 3 Fiends still have their own secret plot in the background, and have 2 more shots to get Vaarsuvius out of the picture in opportune moments to cause shenanigans...

Is Sabine with them, now that the Linear Guild is finished? Or will she probably not show up anymore, like the members that quit during the "Elan is Nale and Nale is Elan" plotline?

And then, of course, there's still Team Evil, who can only be dealt with once the remaining Hel Vampires get dusted so Hel can't remake the world.

Plenty more people I missed, probably a few I will have legitimately forgotten. I wonder which ones might surprise me.

[understatement]

Heh. Rich be crossing off names quicker than PUBG. And yet we still have a book or two left, to my knowledge.

So, title. It's been a minute since I've re-read the entire story, and I'd like a hand with a brief bit of role-call. Who all is still left that might be able/willing to act?

The Order, obviously. Some level shenanigans, and possibly 3 Clerics for the price of 1, but still solidly quasi-functional.

The Refuges of Azure City? Assuming Hinjo and any of the remaining Paladins are willing to provide some back up, rather than just scouting and taking care of alternate problems?

The Monster in the Dark, since he's actively sabotaging Team Evil at this point; he'll definitely come up in the future.

The Oracle's been a massive help before, though being a bit out of the way and mostly non-combat means he'll not be needed anymore, especially with the order having Thor giving Durkon the next objective points.

The Linear Guild is basically finished at this point, what with its leadership having several holes in it. I imagine that'll need to get sorted out, once the End of the World gets cleared up.

Likewise, the problem with the Empire of Blood, probably not something a group of adventurers can just clean up in a few sessions, will most likely have to wait. But at least Tarquinn and his gang don't seem to have been in the right place to intervene any further.

The 3 Fiends still have their own secret plot in the background, and have 2 more shots to get Vaarsuvius out of the picture in opportune moments to cause shenanigans...

Is Sabine with them, now that the Linear Guild is finished? Or will she probably not show up anymore, like the members that quit during the "Elan is Nale and Nale is Elan" plotline?

And then, of course, there's still Team Evil, who can only be dealt with once the remaining Hel Vampires get dusted so Hel can't remake the world.

Plenty more people I missed, probably a few I will have legitimately forgotten. I wonder which ones might surprise me.

these are all guesses

Maybe the Mechane crew? I guess their last appearance will be to ferry the Order to Kraagor's Gate.

Also, Laurin and Miron are probably out of the game.

Definitely think we'll see a living Serini.

[Aveline]

O-Chul and Lien are still scouting Team Evil at Kraagor's Tomb.

Roy's Archon received some instructions from Roy back when he was dead.

Eugene is still wandering the clouds, and he wants Xykon defeated as much as anyone.

Ian and Geoff want to reunite with Ivy soon.

I think Aarindarius will be a plot element in Book 7. I think Grubwiggler won't be.

Edit: Some of us speculate that Loki has active schemes regarding the Dark One or Hel's bet, which will come to light before too long.

Edit 2: Can't forget about Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator!

[Peelee]

Definitely think we'll see a living Serini.

I'll take that bet! Xykon has her diary which details the Gates, and I doubt she would give that up easily.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'll take that bet! Xykon has her diary which details the Gates, and I doubt she would give that up easily.
I'm with understatement. Xykon hasn't bound Serini's soul - or at least he hasn't been shown doing it or gloating about it, the way he has with Lirian and Dorukan.

[Fyraltari]

I'll take that bet! Xykon has her diary which details the Gates, and I doubt she would give that up easily.

If he had met her he would have captured her rather than bother with the diary.

[Peelee]

Ig he had met her he would have captured her rather than bother with the diary.

Im not saying he met her with the intention of getting her diary or settled on it in lieu of capturing her, I'm saying to the winner goes the spoils.

[zimmerwald1915]

Im not saying he met her with the intention of getting her diary or settled on it in lieu of capturing her, I'm saying to the winner goes the spoils.
Among those spoils would be her soul, as it was with the other Scribblers Xykon defeated in personal combat. And yet, no mention of it whatsoever.

[Fyraltari]

Im not saying he met her with the intention of getting her diary or settled on it in lieu of capturing her, I'm saying to the winner goes the spoils.
No, you misunderstand me. He says on page 95 of Start of Darkness that it took him forever to decode the diary. He wouldn't have had to do that if he had defeated Serini in battle, he would have forced he to give him the information by any mean necessary, and if she had escaped him, he wouldn't have sat on a chair doing math to try and break the code he would have pursued her.

Also like zimmer I think that if he had fought an epic-level adventurer he would have talked about it either to gloat or complain.

EDIT:

And among those spoils would be her soul, as it was with the other Scribblers Xykon defeated in personal combat. And yet, no mention of it whatsoever.

To be honest, he only ever mentionned trapping souls as part of his plan to lure Dorukan out, Redcloak didn't seem to know either going by his reaction, so he doesn't seem to be in the habit of parading the souls of his victims.

[Peelee]

I should reform my case. I don't think it's necessary the Xykon fought her. I do think it's necessary that she's dead.

[Fyraltari]

I should reform my case. I don't think it's necessary the Xykon fought her. I do think it's necessary that she's dead.

But why then?

[zimmerwald1915]

To be honest, he only ever mentionned trapping souls as part of his plan to lure Dorukan out, Redcloak didn't seem to know either going by his reaction, so he doesn't seem to be in the habit of parading the souls of his victims.
He paraded it to O-Chul, who knew Xykon had soul bind on his spell list (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html). And his one-liner about "one saving throw at a time" notwithstanding, probably not from having been killed and soul-bound himself.

[Fyraltari]

He paraded it to O-Chul, who knew Xykon had soul bind on his spell list (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html). And his one-liner about "one saving throw at a time" notwithstanding, probably not from having been killed and soul-bound himself.

Uh, I had never noticed that (then again I never bothered reading that list either). I wouldn't put it past Xykon to have killed and soul-bound other people in front of O-Chul though, either civilians (to get a reaction out of him) or the former executioner because he was just that pissed at his misspellings.

[understatement]

Also, it would mildly karmic to have Serini alongside the Order, considering Xykon soul-bound two of her teammates.

And an epic-level rogue would considerably even out the odds.

[Emanick]

I should reform my case. I don't think it's necessary the Xykon fought her. I do think it's necessary that she's dead.

I think there's a pretty good chance that she's still alive.

Rich has stated that we'll get the whole story of the Scribblers by the end of the story, in at least enough detail that a prequel dealing with them would be rather unnecessary. Dramatically, it would make the most sense for this to happen before the final confrontation with Xykon, I think, so that we can see the contrast between the Scribblers' failures and the Order's triumph as the final battle plays out. It would make sense for the story to come from a firsthand witness, which is probably going to be one of the Scribblers. It can't be Girard or Soon and it's unlikely to be Kraagor, unless there's some twist about the Snarl not actually destroying souls and the Order gets to meet him somehow. Dorukan and Lirian are trapped in Xykon's gem, so the story probably isn't going to come from them. Serini has been presented as the peacemaker of the group, the one who could see all sides of the conflict, and what happened to her has been an enduring mystery. I expect that mystery to be solved by her showing up at some point and explaining some crucial holes in the story, including, potentially, the whole deal with the planet in the rift.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily require her to be alive. She could be dead and the Order could raise her, or they could travel to the afterlife and talk to her somehow. She could even be Soul Bound in a different gem, and the Order could recover it and raise her from that. Maybe her story will even be told with a Speak with Dead spell, who knows. But the simplest explanation, I think, is probably the one that involves her being alive.

Why hasn't she shown up yet, then? The dramatic reasons for this are obvious, but the in-universe ones are less so. You'd expect her to have responded to V's Sending spells, unless maybe she has some abjuration spell that blocks contact from strangers (though I'm not aware of any that do so). Since I think V tried to contact her multiple times, the 5% chance of failure from being on a different plane is also an unconvincing reason for her to have not responded - although, since she's "not really the retiring type," I think the odds of her being on another plane are decent. Maybe she doesn't trust V, although she doesn't seem to have shared Girard's paranoia. Perhaps, as an epic-level adventurer concerned about world-ending threats, she found out V was responsible for Familicide, and that was why she didn't respond?

This also doesn't explain why Xykon has her diary, or why she's not interfering with the search for the Gate, but I think there's a pretty good chance that she's incapacitated somehow or in hiding. She may have fought him and lost, which would be unsurprising, as a halfling of her age would probably be elderly but not dead yet, and a -3 to -6 penalty to Dexterity and Constitution would make her less formidable. Either way, you'd expect an epic rogue to lose a fight with an epic lich sorcerer. She would probably know better than to attack Team Evil head on at this point. And of course her diary may not have been on her person. Perhaps Xykon found it at her house or hideaway while she was out.

So yeah, tl;dr: I don't really know where Serini is, but my guess is that she's still alive. I would be unsurprised to be wrong, but I'll bet 3 quatloos that she remains living at this moment in time.

[Fyraltari]

I think there's a pretty good chance that she's still alive.

Rich has stated that we'll get the whole story of the Scribblers by the end of the story, in at least enough detail that a prequel dealing with them would be rather unnecessary. Dramatically, it would make the most sense for this to happen before the final confrontation with Xykon, I think, so that we can see the contrast between the Scribblers' failures and the Order's triumph as the final battle plays out. It would make sense for the story to come from a firsthand witness, which is probably going to be one of the Scribblers. It can't be Girard or Soon and it's unlikely to be Kraagor, unless there's some twist about the Snarl not actually destroying souls and the Order gets to meet him somehow. Dorukan and Lirian are trapped in Xykon's gem, so the story probably isn't going to come from them. Serini has been presented as the peacemaker of the group, the one who could see all sides of the conflict, and what happened to her has been an enduring mystery. I expect that mystery to be solved by her showing up at some point and explaining some crucial holes in the story, including, potentially, the whole deal with the planet in the rift.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily require her to be alive. She could be dead and the Order could raise her, or they could travel to the afterlife and talk to her somehow. She could even be Soul Bound in a different gem, and the Order could recover it and raise her from that. Maybe her story will even be told with a Speak with Dead spell, who knows. But the simplest explanation, I think, is probably the one that involves her being alive.

Why hasn't she shown up yet, then? The dramatic reasons for this are obvious, but the in-universe ones are less so. You'd expect her to have responded to V's Sending spells, unless maybe she has some abjuration spell that blocks contact from strangers (though I'm not aware of any that do so). Since I think V tried to contact her multiple times, the 5% chance of failure from being on a different plane is also an unconvincing reason for her to have not responded - although, since she's "not really the retiring type," I think the odds of her being on another plane are decent. Maybe she doesn't trust V, although she doesn't seem to have shared Girard's paranoia. Perhaps, as an epic-level adventurer concerned about world-ending threats, she found out V was responsible for Familicide, and that was why she didn't respond?

This also doesn't explain why Xykon has her diary, or why she's not interfering with the search for the Gate, but I think there's a pretty good chance that she's incapacitated somehow or in hiding. She may have fought him and lost, which would be unsurprising, as a halfling of her age would probably be elderly but not dead yet, and a -3 to -6 penalty to Dexterity and Constitution would make her less formidable. Either way, you'd expect an epic rogue to lose a fight with an epic lich sorcerer. She would probably know better than to attack Team Evil head on at this point. And of course her diary may not have been on her person. Perhaps Xykon found it at her house or hideaway while she was out.

So yeah, tl;dr: I don't really know where Serini is, but my guess is that she's still alive. I would be unsurprised to be wrong, but I'll bet 3 quatloos that she remains living at this moment in time.

Maybe she accidentally locked herself inside the tunnel that leads to the Gate and the magic stone the tomb is made of blocks Sending.

[Kish]

And an epic-level rogue would considerably even out the odds.
That is why Rich will never do that, and why he's taken pains to neutralize every potential patron for the Order who shows up. Shojo? Dead and his power base destroyed. Girard? Was long dead before the Order got there. Tarquin? An enemy, not a patron. Julio? Not sticking around.

The comic's story is the Order vs. Xykon, not Serini vs. Xykon with the Order carrying water for one side in the over-their-heads clash of epic characters.

[Jasdoif]

That is why Rich will never do that, and why he's taken pains to neutralize every potential patron for the Order who shows up. Shojo? Dead and his power base destroyed. Girard? Was long dead before the Order got there. Tarquin? An enemy, not a patron. Julio? Not sticking around.

The comic's story is the Order vs. Xykon, not Serini vs. Xykon with the Order carrying water for one side in the over-their-heads clash of epic characters.Frankly, I think it'd be far more effective for Serini to get the Order where they need to be to save the day themselves, rather than save the day for them. I mean, the book-intro for Dungeon Crawlin' Fools already did the diplomacy joke, Haley and Elan already (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html) did (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0971.html) "look how convenient an un-enumerated array of magic items is for a rogue!" thing, and we've already had pointy death incarnate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1051.html) (which Iaijutsu Focus would have a hard time beating, if it even exists in the setting and could be called out in a not-awkwardly-self-serving fashion); I'm not seeing a lot of room for non-rehashed direct approaches.

This, of course, assumes the endgame resembles a straight-up conflict between OotS and Team Evil....

[littlebum2002]

The Linear Guild is basically finished at this point, what with its leadership having several holes in it. I imagine that'll need to get sorted out, once the End of the World gets cleared up.


Is there anyone left except Sabine?



Likewise, the problem with the Empire of Blood, probably not something a group of adventurers can just clean up in a few sessions, will most likely have to wait. But at least Tarquinn and his gang don't seem to have been in the right place to intervene any further..

This is one of my favorite hanging threads. I am dying to know what Elan told Ian. My personal theory is that he told him that it would be much easier to beat Tarquin off-screen, which will prevent him from getting the dramatic battle scene he desperately wants. Instead, all he'll get is an aside in the epilogue: "Oh, and Ian amassed an army and defeated Tarquin. The End"


Also, you forgot my actual favorite "hanging thread". What was Haley's secret that she was about to tell Elan?

[Fyraltari]

Is there anyone left except Sabine?
Thog*, Hilgya, Qarr, Leeky and Pompey.
The organization is dead, but its dream of carrying out disproportionate revnege over petty quasi-imagineed slight shall never die!


This is one of my favorite hanging threads. I am dying to know what Elan told Ian. My personal theory is that he told him that it would be much easier to beat Tarquin off-screen, which will prevent him from getting the dramatic battle scene he desperately wants. Instead, all he'll get is an aside in the epilogue: "Oh, and Ian amassed an army and defeated Tarquin. The End"
I think we will see more of them, because this set-up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html) has yet to pay-off when the Directors are in need of new pawns and the Vector Legion is in need of someway to fix their snarl infestation problem.




*Fight me.

[Peelee]

Thog*





*Fight me.

Sword or pistol?

[zimmerwald1915]

Sword or pistol?
Rubber chicken.

[Kish]

Alas, Thog cannot participate in this fight, due to being dead.

[Keltest]

Alas, Thog cannot participate in this fight, due to being dead.

That didn't stop Crystal. Or Durkon. Or Roy. Heck, there was one point where being dead was literally the primary battle strategy for Xykon.

[Peelee]

Rubber chicken.

Dammit, Frye (misspelled) and Laurie didn't have a bit on that!

[hroþila]

I think it's quite possible that Serini is alive and that the Order will meet her. If we're to learn more about what happened to the Order of the Scribble, she'd be a likely source, and there's ways to neutralize her later if necessary so that she doesn't overshadow the protagonists. There are many ways Xykon could have got her diary without killing her - for example, she may have been attacked at her place and forced to flee the battle.

[BasiliskSoldier]

I'm really curious about how the Three Fiends will end up fitting into this. I doubt they'll go unresolved, and since we're rapidly approaching the final book they'll probably be part of the endgame.

I also think it's reasonably likely that there's some players who have yet to be introduced. Loki or some of the other evil gods might have different goals than Thor with their own agents in play for the endgame, and Redcloak's Niece from Start of Darkness is a Chekhov's Gun that I doubt will go unfired.

[Peelee]

Lirian is dead. Dorukan is dead. Soon is dead. Girard is dead. Serini gonna be dead.

Although.... Eh, why not. Five gold says Kraagor is alive.

[NoHaxJustPi]

I’ll take that bet!

[woweedd]

Lirian is dead. Dorukan is dead. Soon is dead. Girard is dead. Serini gonna be dead.

Although.... Eh, why not. Five gold says Kraagor is alive.
I mean...We'll all be dead at some point.

[SlashDash]

The Refuges of Azure City? Assuming Hinjo and any of the remaining Paladins are willing to provide some back up, rather than just scouting and taking care of alternate problems?

Most likely, I expect Hinjo to show up for the last battle. Especially since Belkar will likely need to save him again at some point.



The Oracle's been a massive help before, though being a bit out of the way and mostly non-combat means he'll not be needed anymore, especially with the order having Thor giving Durkon the next objective points.

There's also that whole point of him trying to lie to Celia.



But at least Tarquinn and his gang don't seem to have been in the right place to intervene any further.

Huh? After seeing what happened in the desert at the end of the last book, I'm absolutely positive Tarquin will show up - or someone representing him.

Something weird is going on over there and most likely Tarquin will try to ask the only other people he knows that know anything about the gates.






I still think that we haven't seen the last of team vampire as key players. I assumed Gregg will run off after the council vote and to reach Xykon, but the Exarch would be equally effective in that regard.


Celia and Jirix are likely to show up again at some point. Though it could be in the epilogue.

[understatement]

But if Tarquin shows up, it'll undermine Elan's [proper] victory over him.

And why would the Exarch try to reach Xykon? Their goals are pretty counter-opposing each other.

[ijuinkun]

I mean...We'll all be dead at some point.

Speaking of dead, will the Order's infection with Sphinx Pox become relevant at some later point? It still has a month to incubate, so the final confrontation with Redcloak and Xykon (which likely will happen 2-4 days hence in story time unless more sidequests pop up) will be long over by then, but Hel claimed that it is incurable by mortal means . . .

[Kish]

Hel claimed that it is incurable by mortal means . . .
Hel didn't say that.

She seemed to be taking for granted that they wouldn't get a Remove Disease spell.

It was most likely just a joke about her sense of entitlement.

[Fyraltari]

But if Tarquin shows up, it'll undermine Elan's [proper] victory over him.

Not necessarily, by Word of Giant, Tarquin isn't actually the leader of the Vector Legion. So I could see them showing up but having lost most of their respect for Tarquin and bossing him around while the Order (and Elan) refuse to acknowledge him next to Xykon and co. Hell, he could end up being killed absent-mindedly by Xykon as further humiliation.

[woweedd]

Speaking of dead, will the Order's infection with Sphinx Pox become relevant at some later point? It still has a month to incubate, so the final confrontation with Redcloak and Xykon (which likely will happen 2-4 days hence in story time unless more sidequests pop up) will be long over by then, but Hel claimed that it is incurable by mortal means . . .
No she didn't. All they need is Remove Disease.

[SlashDash]

But if Tarquin shows up, it'll undermine Elan's [proper] victory over him.

Not really. Tarquin or someone representing him can easily show up to help with any number of things and then just walk away.

It won't even have to clash with whatever secret plan Elan suggested to Ian.


You think it's more probable that we saw something happening at the gate and will never see anyone involved again?

Maybe just Miron or the psion show up. But I don't think that cliffhanger will never be mentioned again.



And why would the Exarch try to reach Xykon? Their goals are pretty counter-opposing each other.
Not more than Redcloak and Xykon having opposing goals.
It seems the story is already fine with one cleric lying to Xykon.

Losing the vote doesn't mean the world is safe. It simply means that the gods are giving the mortals one last chance to fix things.

So sending the Exarch to "help" Xykon is in Hel's interest to scare the gods into action.

Heck, if Thor's plan succeeds, Hel is doomed for all eternity.

So even just sending someone to make sure Redcloak won't listen to Durkon is in her best interest.


And as I said, vampires can just lie about their true motives for joining team evil.