Maximizing the Death Domain Cleric

[TheAlmightyKue]

Alright so I have been looking at the Death Domain lately and I have to admit its an interesting concept to use.
So I am part of an evil campaign, and my current character is N and has a bad habit of nearing death in every fight. So a new character concept is desired and I have yet to nail down a cool concept that I like.

But the idea of a Cleric who worships the gods of death, who sees the cycle of life and death as a good thing and that once a life force moves on that the meat that remains can be played with as you need to keep yourself and your party alive. A Cleric of the gods of death, perhaps even a changeling cleric of death and go full on Servant of the Many Faced Gods angle.

But I am new to 5e and not sure what to make of some of the feats.
I am thinking Warcaster is a must. But I worry because necrotic dmg is highly resisted and there are many with immunities so is this a good option to focus on those types of spells?

[Wilb]

Well, the Death Domain has a feature that makes all your necrotic damage (except for your divine strike, for some odd reason) ignore resistance. So, as long as the creature isn't immune, you can explode it.

Its quite a good domain for killing undead.

[TheAlmightyKue]

Well, the Death Domain has a feature that makes all your necrotic damage (except for your divine strike, for some odd reason) ignore resistance. So, as long as the creature isn't immune, you can explode it.

Its quite a good domain for killing undead.

I noticed that, and the aspect of twinning the effect of necro-cantrips is just beautiful for controlling the mob population.
My stats are the same as last time I posted something about a character build so I have dang near perfect IVs (Pokemon reference)

What race do you think would add well to this? I was thinking Changling for the shapeshifting if I wanted to do Faceless Man but Human is just best.

[Naanomi]

Tortle or Loxodon, flush that DEX... Turtle-Man if you want to melee with that Strength, Elephant-Man if you are just focused on casting

[CTurbo]

As with any Cleric, you want a maxed Wis, a high AC, and a way to boost Con checks like Warcaster and/or Res(Con)

[TheAlmightyKue]

Hmm not sure if they fit the game the gm is playing will look into them later though.

Ok so I have an 18 in Dex and Wis from the off
So if I went VHuman thats a 19 and gives him a feat, so maybe at level 4 he takes the level adjustment and gets 20 dex and Wis. But then should he take a dip of Monk since that would be a 20 without needing armor

But not sure, Dwarf from the DMG can give +2 Wis and +2 Con, and so a level 4 adjustment would give +2 to Dex so that another route.

[SkipSandwich]

Lizardfolk Clerics are pretty good (+1 wis), and the Hungry Jaws and Cunning Artisan features fit right in with the fluff you seem to have in mind for the character ("recycling" the remains of the dead once spirit has moved on)

[Naanomi]

Lizardfolk Clerics are pretty good (+1 wis), and the Hungry Jaws and Cunning Artisan features fit right in with the fluff you seem to have in mind for the character ("recycling" the remains of the dead once spirit has moved on)
If you already have 18 DEX (and you are not allowed to move it elsewhere); I’d also endorse lizardman

[apepi]

Get Toll the Dead for Reaper.

[LudicSavant]

Get Toll the Dead for Reaper.


As with any Cleric, you want a maxed Wis, a high AC, and a way to boost Con checks like Warcaster and/or Res(Con)

I concur with this advice. Get Toll the Dead, max your Wisdom ASAP, get the highest AC you can get, and take anything that boosts your Concentration. Pretty much any race that gets at least a +1 to Wisdom is good. If you ever end up with an odd Wisdom score, Observant is generally the half-feat you want. If you want a quick reference for races/half-feats that boost Wisdom, I've got that for you,here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?580998-Half-Feats-and-Races-Organized-By-Stats-They-Boost).

Beyond that, most of what will make you better as a Cleric isn't about your build so much as it's about knowing your spell list and how to use it.


But I worry because necrotic dmg is highly resisted and there are many with immunities so is this a good option to focus on those types of spells?

At level 6, your Cleric spells and Channel Divinity ignore resistance anyways, so you shouldn't be worried about it. And before that, Necrotic damage isn't that common of a resistance anyways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?379165-MM-Resistances-Immunities-Vulnerabilities-and-Damage).

[TheAlmightyKue]

http://i63.tinypic.com/2lu30aa.jpg
Ok so looking more and more like a DMG Dwarf with that +2 Wis and +2 Con.
Though I could see a Variant Human, and taking Observant at first level, that would leave me at 20 Wis too.
The only issue was I was thinking picking up War caster and maybe magic initiate to pick up Shillelagh so that I could focus sole Wisdom

[Wilb]

18 Str is enough for a melee Death cleric, as well as 7 Cha.

Human with War Caster into Resilient(Con) or Hill Dwarf into Resilient (Con) then War Caster. Take Tough with the Dwarf and feel like a frontliner even with half plate.

EDIT: got confused and mixed Wis & Con.

[TheAlmightyKue]

18 Str is enough for a melee Death cleric, as well as 7 Cha.

Human with War Caster into Resilient(Wis) or Hill Dwarf into Resilient (Wis) then War Caster. Take Tough with the Dwarf and feel like a frontliner even with half plate.

As a cleric you already have proficiency in Wis saves so Resilient is a wasted feat for (Wis). A Dragonmark might be good though.

[CTurbo]

Surely he meant Res(Con)...

[Wilb]

Surely he meant Res(Con)...

Yup, had a brainfart.

[XmonkTad]

I'm currently playing a Tortle Death Cleric. We have a barbarian and orc monk who both like to stay on the front lines, but with a shield and no weapon I have a much higher AC then they do, so I'm often on the front lines as well. Also, Reaper + Toll the Dead keeps me competitive DPR wise without expending any resources.

I do end up healing a lot, but I try and limit it to Healing Word and let our Dream Druid pick up the slack.

My big problem right now is I'm the only member of the party without darkvision, and I didnt take the light cantrip, so I'm constantly begging it off the wizard.

I have no opinion on warcaster or resilient (con), but if your stats are that good, you may want warcaster as it's better than resilient if your stats are good.

[Corran]

Dont waste a feat for shillelagh with these stats. Also, with these stats, I'd go with light armor and stealth. In which case I would also like a race that grants darkvision (less need for vhuman for quicker feats with these stats). I'd probably go with a wood elf (stealthy and mobile). DEX 20, WIS 19, CON 18.
Warcaster @4, resilient con @8 and an ASI @12 to get me 20 in all of DEX, WIS and CON. Toll the dead or (surprisingly, due to awesome stats) rapier attack as at will, vampiric touch (combined with CD for extra healing and damage) when I want to spend resources to be creepy but not terribly efficient. Inflict wounds + CD when you need to deal more damage to 1 enemey. Other than that, plays as just every other cleric (so at this point, looking at a guide is good advice).

[TheAlmightyKue]

Death domain doesn't get martial weapons so that would require a feat or dip.

[Corran]

Death domain doesn't get martial weapons so that would require a feat or dip.
Replace rapier with dagger, to what I said above, then. I think would elf get shortswords? Not sure and AFB. I wouldn't spend a feat, or even dip, to get proficiency in a weapon.

[Blackbando]

Death domain doesn't get martial weapons so that would require a feat or dip.

...Yes it does?

[Rukelnikov]

Some races you should consider:


Fallen Aasimar: Very thematic, good resistances, darkvision, and its active lets add your level in necrotic damage to attacks or spells 1/round
Firbolg: Best stats you can get, turn that 17 into Str 18, and bump your Wis to 20, also becoming invi 1/sr as a bonus action is an easy way for advantage on 1 attack spell (like inflict wounds)
Ghostwise Halfling: Bump your Dex to 20, +1 Wis, rerolling 1s is awesome, and Silent Speech goes great thematically.


I'd advise against going Tortle, the main appeal of the Race is the base AC of 17, with a Dex of 18 (at least), you have no need for that.


Death domain doesn't get martial weapons so that would require a feat or dip.

Death domain gets martial weapon prof at lvl 1

[TheAlmightyKue]

Replying from work so afb wonder which domain I was thinking of.

Hmm Ghostwise would be an interesting theme

[Zuras]

Death Domain gets martial weapons, but not heavy armor.

Also note that your channel divinity works on any melee attack, including melee spell attacks, so if you do go for magic initiate: Druid, thorn whip is a much stronger choice.

Nothing like having Spirit Guardians up and dragging enemies into it on your turn while dumping an extra 20 necrotic damage into them.

Also, this gives you a nice emergency Nova, as you can unload both CDs on a single turn at range using Spiritual Weapon and Thorn Whip. I had a Death Cleric in a campaign fighting a bunch of Red Wizards who ended up doing this a lot (it’s a Wizard, kill them before they Cone of Cold us again!).

Unless you really want absorb element, though, Spell Sniper is a better way to pick up an extra combat spell. You can get thorn whip or booming blade, either way you can do some fun stuff and boost your damage in most scenarios.

[LudicSavant]

Death domain doesn't get martial weapons so that would require a feat or dip.


Replace rapier with dagger, to what I said above, then. I think would elf get shortswords? Not sure and AFB. I wouldn't spend a feat, or even dip, to get proficiency in a weapon.

Uh, guys? Death Domain gets Martial weapon proficiency.



http://i63.tinypic.com/2lu30aa.jpg
Ok so looking more and more like a DMG Dwarf with that +2 Wis and +2 Con.
Though I could see a Variant Human, and taking Observant at first level, that would leave me at 20 Wis too.
The only issue was I was thinking picking up War caster and maybe magic initiate to pick up Shillelagh so that I could focus sole Wisdom

I wouldn't recommend Shillelagh given your rolls. War Caster is a good choice, as is Observant.

[TheAlmightyKue]

Ok so here is an idea I had.
Vhuman
19 into Dex and Wis from the off. Use feat to pick up War Caster, at level 4 pick up the +1s to turn Dex and Wis to 20 I am starting at level 5 so this is easily back built.

Level 8 take Resilience (Con)

But I am wondering if a 1 level dip in Monk is worth it?
I am wondering if I should give him 7 str and go with a Rapier build, or put 17 or so into str and use a polearm for reach.

I was thinking of him as a pale thin fellow wearing robes and following the god Hades or something.

[CTurbo]

Taking a single level of Monk would be cool as you would have a really high unarmored AC and could dump Str like you said, but if you go this route, stick to Monk weapons.

The biggest negative here is it delays all your Cleric stuff. One level shouldn't be too bad though.

[Naanomi]

Taking a single level of Monk would be cool as you would have a really high unarmored AC and could dump Str like you said, but if you go this route, stick to Monk weapons.

The biggest negative here is it delays all your Cleric stuff. One level shouldn't be too bad though.
Because you can’t use a shield as a monk, it is ultimately only +1 AC

[TheAlmightyKue]

Because you can’t use a shield as a monk, it is ultimately only +1 AC

It is. 20 AC at lvl 5 is still pretty decent. Better than our frontline who has 18.

Monk weapons, do they benefit from dex?

[SkipSandwich]

Yup, all monk weapons effectively gain the finesse property when in accordance with the monk's Martial Arts feature (cannot martial art while wearing armor or a shield per RAW)

[Citan]

Alright so I have been looking at the Death Domain lately and I have to admit its an interesting concept to use.
So I am part of an evil campaign, and my current character is N and has a bad habit of nearing death in every fight. So a new character concept is desired and I have yet to nail down a cool concept that I like.

But the idea of a Cleric who worships the gods of death, who sees the cycle of life and death as a good thing and that once a life force moves on that the meat that remains can be played with as you need to keep yourself and your party alive. A Cleric of the gods of death, perhaps even a changeling cleric of death and go full on Servant of the Many Faced Gods angle.

But I am new to 5e and not sure what to make of some of the feats.
I am thinking Warcaster is a must. But I worry because necrotic dmg is highly resisted and there are many with immunities so is this a good option to focus on those types of spells?
Hi!

So, first, to maximize the Death Cleric "in general" (with no regard to your particular worries).
- Keep Bestow Curse prepared at higher level: it's non-concentration as a level 5 spell for nova needs, and is otherwise great anyways as an "enabler" for friendly debuffs.
- Multiclass into Necromancy Wizard: the HP regain works on kill, not on cast, so in the long run you can regain a great deal of HP with Vampiric Touch. If you get 3 levels into it, you can also bring along Mirror Image or even better Blink for extra resilience. And if you get high enough you get great spells.
- Multiclass into Shadow Sorcerer: not only do you get nice thematic option, you can also get the same Mirror Image, more importantly Extend (situationally good on Vampiric Touch, marvelous on Aid and Death Ward) and Quicken (Inflict Wounds, "autotwinned" Chill Touch/Toll the Dead, Mirror Image, etc). And if you get high enough you get great spells.
- Multiclass into Warlock: Arms of Hadard, short-rest slots to use your favorite spell every encounter...
- Multiclass into Long Death Monk: movement boost, Dodge as bonus action, THP on kill within 5 feet, Stunning Strike when you want to conserve slots.
(Of course don't multiclass in all three: choose one ASAP unless you really know why you are going heavy multiclass way, especially considering the different stats: Warlock 1 / Sorcerer 3 can be decent though).

Second, if you are afraid of being too dependand on necrotic damage, you may instead do the following: forget Vampiric Touch as your go-to spell and instead rely on weapon attack, meaning...
1. Go Horizon Walker Ranger 3/5:
- "bonus action to make all damage force on next attack" so when you need non-necrotic you're covered (-I'd argue though it's very different from your concept fluff-wise), and it even works with your Channel Divinity's "extra damage on weapon attack" (you inflict necrotic which becomes "force" "on the fly") and Divine Strike.
- Fighting Style for archery (better versatility) or Defense (better resilience).
- possibly Extra Attack and much more importantly Healing Spirit (so you are truely master of Life and Death ;)).

2. Go Long Death Monk (which is actually, by the way, another good choice to maximize Vampiric Touch build now that I think of it, mainly for Dodge as bonus action and THP on kill, so I'll add it on the fly): Dodge, THP on kill, unarmed attack, Stunning Strike...

3. Go whatever caster provides Shadow Blade and fluff it closer to your concept.

4. Go Rogue, Assassin possibly. :)

If you "want to play a Death Cleric", then I'd suggest Necromancy Wizard 2 as the maximum dip so you can still get all Cleric Domain benefits and limit the delay in spell progression and get 3rd use of CD per short rest.
The other very good choice is Shadow Sorcerer 3 so you can, at level 20 thanks to Cleric 17 ability and Quicken, make a decent thematic nova by Quickening "autoquickened" lvl 5 Inflict Wounds then using action to activate precast Vampiric Touch. Moreover, as soon as you get Sorcerer and Quicken, you can use Vampiric Touch twice in same round (Quicken cast VT then use it with your action).

If you "want to play a Master of Death and Life" without too much link to class fluff (in other words, you don't care about making fluff work as long as mechanics roll) then you can mix and match whatever you want.
Vampiric Max:
Necromancy Wizard 2, Death Cleric 6-9 (depending if you want Raise Dead), Warlock 1-2 (False Life invocation, Arms of Hadar and Armor of Agathys for protection), Shadow Sorcerer rest (or Divine Soul if you don't care about the Shadow benefits&fluff / want to enforce the "life" part of your concept through this / wants to get higher damaging spells from Sorcerer
Like
Nova build: Wizard 2 / Warlock 1 / Shadow Sorcerer 3 / Death Cleric 14.
Balanced build: Wizard 2 / Warlock 2 / Death Cleric 6 / Divine Soul Sorcerer 12 (Enervation! Disintegrate !).


Weapon based

Nova damage: HW Ranger 3 / Death Cleric 17 (not very interesting though) or 14 + Assassin 3
Balanced and versatile: Death Cleric 9 / Long Death Monk 7 / Assassin Rogue 5 (most gishy) or 11 / 5 / 5 (to keep access to Heal and Create Undead, pretty important imo).
Alternative: Horizon Walker 3 / Assassin Rogue 3 / Fiend Warlock 3 (THP on ranged kill and/or Shadowblade) / Death Cleric 11.


Overall balanced mechanically but weak in terms of spell known of high-level (and clunky on fluff)...

Necromancer Wizard 3 (to potentially get lots of level 1/2 rituals) / Fiend Warlock 1 (Arms of Hadar, Armor of Agathys or Hex, THP on kill, slot for emergency Healing Words or Sanctuary) +...
either Death Cleric 6 / Divine Soul Sorcerer 10 if you want the perfect three "Extend, Quicken, Twin for upcast Inflict Wounds")
or Sorcerer 4-5 / Death Cleric 12 (still learn 2 3rd level spells like Counterspell/Fear or get an ASi).

Or (sorry to add, just thought of it ^^) "true vampire build":
- Necromancy Wizard 3 / Rogue 1 (Expertise in Athletics, uber important) Long Death Monk 4 / Death Cleric 12 (still master of life and death) or...
- Necromancy Wizard 2 / Assassin 3 / Death Cleric 6 / Long Death Monk 9 (extreme mobility, AC, offense and evasion, you're just missing the "bat form"). OR...
- Necromancy Wizard 2 / Assassin 3 / Death Cleric 6 / Fiend Warlock 9 (only, but big, benefit of this variant is having 5th level Vampiric Touch twice per short rest).

Pick Grappler as your first ASI, pick Elven Accuracy as your second.
You can now grapple most creatures, attack it with 100% accuracy irrelevant to AC (mostly) with high chance of critical in addition to that, and Dodge when needed: on each hit, with basic Vampiric Touch, you'll regain a small but decent amount of HP.
You can use cantrips on most fights, basic Vampiric Touch otherwise, and upcast VT or IW when really needing big amounts of damage.
You should have a high enough level to use 4th level VT half of the encounters, which is not bad.
When you need to kill a creature, you can use the Channel Divinity to ensure it happens. You'll get healed by 12 HP (Wizard benefit) then gain in addition between 8 and 14 THP (Monk/Warlock benefit).
Let me assure you that while you're still very easily dispatchable in a nova encounter, in attrition fights you'll have the last laugh for sure. :)

Also I just noticed your post with stupidly good stats: with those you just "*need*" to take a level in Monk. ^^

Hope all these ideas help you see what is possible and decide the best for you; have fun ;)