The Artificer is here

[jaappleton]

https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-Artificer-2019.pdf

[jaappleton]

Some thoughts:

Intelligence based half Caster
Does NOT get Extra Attack, but something quasi-similar
Like the Infusions
Like the spell list overall

Archetypes essentially break down to Defense VS Offense

Proficiency in Con and Int saves

D8 HD

.......I don’t dislike it. But at the same time it does nothing to really knock my socks off.

[Marcloure]

.......I don’t dislike it. But at the same time it does nothing to really knock my socks off.

I feel the same. "Yeah, it's fine I guess".

[RickAsWritten]

I quite like it on first read-through. It's not gonna out-damage any Paladins or anything, but it has some fun features and is a very good generalist magic user. You can't say that the developers weren't listening though: Arcane Half-caster, check. Gish potential, check. Actually functioning pets, check. Throwing weapon support, check. They were definitely playing a lot of Overwatch when they wrote this though lol.

[jaappleton]

I quite like it on first read-through. It's not gonna out-damage any Paladins or anything, but it has some fun features and is a very good generalist magic user. You can't say that the developers weren't listening though: Arcane Half-caster, check. Gish potential, check. Actually functioning pets, check. Throwing weapon support, check. They were definitely playing a lot of Overwatch when they wrote this though lol.

I can’t speak for Jeremy but I know factually that Mearls is a huge fan of Overwatch and Destiny.

[jaappleton]

On a second pass, I like t more.

You get Extra Attack but it must be with a magical weapon.
And you’ve got lots of ways to make that happen.

You can’t Smite like a Pally but you’re more versatile, and your spell list is arguably better. I certainly think it is.

You’re also the ONLY half Caster with Cantrips.

You can command your turret (if you go that route) to fire as a bonus action. Wish the damage on those scaled better, though.

[Daphne]

You can command your turret (if you go that route) to fire as a bonus action. Wish the damage on those scaled better, though.

One extra dice of damage for each spell level above 1 would already help a lot imo.

[jaappleton]

One extra dice of damage for each spell level above 1 would already help a lot imo.

Strong agree. That’s a great way to handle it.

[Foxhound438]

not gonna lie, returning weapon is lowkey sick. Finally, something that can make a throwing weapon build actually work.

Edit: also pretty neat that they can swap out cantrips at higher levels, so you effectively have all of them if you have an hour to wait around.

edit2: a little weird that you don't get new features at 7th, 11th, and 15th, instead getting new infusions, but in all three cases you have to wait another level before getting to the threshold of picking up anything that you couldn't have had before. I'd probably houserule the level breaks for infusion requirements to match up with the levels that you're picking new ones up.

[jaappleton]

not gonna lie, returning weapon is lowkey sick. Finally, something that can make a throwing weapon build actually work.

Some of the infusions are outright awesome. Radiant is pretty cool, allowing a once per rest Blind. Not bad at all!

The one that lets you spend a bonus action to teleport 15ft at will? Oh, I like that one a lot.

All in all, the Artificer seems best in the hands of a creative player.

[Daphne]

The class has rituals, know all spells and prepare them just like a Cleric or Druid, can use infused items as a spellcasting focus (so you can have a weapon or shield as a focus), cantrips even though it's only a half-caster unlike Paladin and Ranger (and can even swap then after a rest!), good spell list and a huge list of craftable items.

It probably can debunk Wizard as the most versatile class.

I miss the gun subclass though :smallsigh:

[Rukelnikov]

It doesn't scale that bad if you consider that you get two of them by lvl 14. 4d8 as a bonus action, equivalent to an 8th lvl spiritual weapon but ranged, and grants everyone within 10 ft half cover.

Tbh, combat wise I think it's balanced leaning towards powerful, depends a lot on the amount of magic items handed out , capstone is borderline broken though.

Utility wise, I think it's unparalleled, being able to change invocations, means I can get whichever utility item I want for this level and change it next.

However, it doesn't hype me to play one :S

[Foxhound438]

The one that lets you spend a bonus action to teleport 15ft at will? Oh, I like that one a lot.


It's definitely neat, the clause of going back to a space you've been in this turn is definitely the bigger half of the balancing factor (other half being needing a bonus action to do it).

Just starting to look through the subclasses, and... Oof, if you're a fan of ranger seeing this guy's pet tupperware getting significantly more HP than your wolf has to hurt.

[jaappleton]

However, it doesn't hype me to play one :S

I thought that at first, but as I look at it more and more, I’m starting to like it a lot more with each additional pass.

[Rukelnikov]

It's definitely neat, the clause of going back to a space you've been in this turn is definitely the bigger half of the balancing factor (other half being needing a bonus action to do it).

Just starting to look through the subclasses, and... Oof, if you're a fan of ranger seeing this guy's pet tupperware getting significantly more HP than your wolf has to hurt.

And not having to give up an attack to have it deal damage.

[Foxhound438]

I've read through the full class now and I have to say I like it. Both subclasses give you an easy bonus action option that gives a little increase in DPR, the spell list looks pretty solid overall, and the infusions look pretty sick. I'm probably going to brew a couple of characters off of this to see how they look when put together.

[Daphne]

I thought that at first, but as I look at it more and more, I’m starting to like it a lot more with each additional pass.

It has a lot of stuff to absorb, might take some time for people to like it

[Contrast]

I'm a little worried that there's conflict between using weapons and cantrips. Whichever option you chose you're going to feel like you're wasting class features and doing both doesn't really add all that much.

I will reserve judgement until I see one in play I guess.

[Rukelnikov]

You can use weapons for combat, and cantrips outside of it.

[jaappleton]

It has a lot of stuff to absorb, might take some time for people to like it

I’m just saying, the more you look at it, the more it grows on you.

Reading it at first, I was like “Ok... This works with this. Uh huh. Right, got that part. That’s fine, I guess. Hmm...”

But now I’m reading it for the fourth time, and it’s “Ok, this is really cool, it gets this, that’s pretty unique, etc”

[Falren]

That alchemical homunculus is amazing! I'm sad we lost our giant robot, but this is a cool replacement.

[Rhedyn]

As far as half-casters go it's inbetween paladin and ranger in terms of power. Which is a good spot to be. It has two attacks and poops magic items plus some spells.
I like it and I hate most 5e classes.

[Mitsu]

I feel meh, but I like characters that can dish out damage as gish/half casters.

Paladins are much better half-casters and while Artificer has more versitile spells, I think he lacks that "omph!" here, which is what Paladins gets with Smites, IDS and Aura features plus unique spells. Also Paladins have access to Hexblade dip for SAD.

I want to see how Artificier/Wizard multiclass build will go but I can already tell it will be no where near power or Sorcadins, EK/Wizards with Shadow Blade or Sorlocks.

Still a fluff is nice and I like the overall idea. But overall it's strucks as "it's good, 6,7/10).

Wish Artificiers would have something like Oaths. It has only two specializations now.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I feel meh, but I like characters that can dish out damage as gish/half casters.

Paladins are much better half-casters and while Artificer has more versitile spells, I think he lacks that "omph!" here, which is what Paladins gets with Smites, IDS and Aura features.

I want to see how Artificier/Wizard multiclass build will go but I can already tell it will be no where near power or Sorcadins, EK/Wizards with Shadow Blade or Sorlocks.

Still a fluff is nice and I like the overall idea. But overall it's strucks as "it's good, 6,7/10).

Wish Artificiers would have something like Oaths.

How much more design space is there for "high burst damage half-caster/gish"? Mechanically, I mean.

[RSP]

So does it’s Spellcasting feature prevent Counterspell:

“To observers, you don’t appear to be casting spells in a conventional way; you look as if you’re producing wonders through various items.”

[Mortis_Elrod]

I like it.

Artillery is quite fun looking, going all Engineer smacking down turrets. Whats cool is that destroying them deals damage in an aoe. So if you want to burn some spell slots to nuke a location just slam some turrets down on top of each other.

Action to set up, bonus action to activate. turn 2 bonus action activate, Action to detonate.

I like the swapping of cantrips at 10, and the reduced crafting costs.

Infusions are good, nice throwing option, what's really cool is that these weapons don't require melee. Get yourself a crossbow or shortbow.

Things i don't Like:

Homunculus needs a bonus action to be told what to do. A small gripe as its inline with the turrets i suppose.

I think that's it.

At first glance Artillery gets a bit more, turrets plus wands being extra cantrips, while Alchemy gets the equivalent of a Pact Familiar and some extra healing, its all balanced out by potions being really easy to make (1/4 time 1/2 gold) and you can always double up on both Homunculus and a Familiar, with feats like Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate, oh and very limited Flight but flight non the less.

am now seriously considering killing off my Lizardfolk Death Cleric to play this, but if i remember correctly my DM doesn't allow UA.

[Mitsu]

How much more design space is there for "high burst damage half-caster/gish"? Mechanically, I mean.

Doesn't have to be high burst, but it would be nice to get some DPR half-caster instead or burst. EK/Wizard is a example of gish DPR build, while Sorcadins/Paladins are burst.

But again, I just voted my opinion as I don't see a reason for Artificier much as it lacks what Paladins have over Sorcerers - huge melee burst + Aura.

Artificier seems good but nothing that Bladesinger/Fighter would not be able to pull off while being full caster.

But at least it's very thematic imo :)

[PhoenixPhyre]

Doesn't have to be high burst, but it would be nice to get some DPR half-caster instead or burst. EK/Wizard is a example of gish DPR build, while Sorcadins/Paladins are burst.

But again, I just voted my opinion as I don't see a reason for Artificier much as it lacks what Paladins have over Sorcerers - huge melee burst + Aura.

Artificier seems good but nothing that Bladesinger/Fighter would not be able to pull off while being full caster.

In a word--utility. Damage is boring, most of the time and can be provided by a lot of other classes. Being able to do the other stuff for the team (because the infusions aren't self-only) is big.

[Rukelnikov]

BTW, no one is commenting on the new spell. It's basically hunters mark on steroids.

[Garfunion]

BTW, no one is commenting on the new spell. It's basically hunters mark on steroids.
It makes a better theme Arcane Archer, Gunmage

[MaxWilson]

https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-Artificer-2019.pdf

Artillerist 3/Evoker 10 FTW cranking out Wands of Magic Missiles! You can make two wands every week for 100 gp each, and with Int 20 each wand does 9 x (d4+6) auto-damage when you use it on full blast, for an average of 76.5 auto-damage. The wand takes about two days to recover full power, but who cares? You can easily have dozens of them anyway.

If you don't want to risk 5% chance of burning out a wand you can use them at almost full power instead.

[clash]

Honestly the more I read it the more I like it. I really want to try one

[Rukelnikov]

Yeah, as it should. Good thing they get hand crossbows too for XBE

[mephnick]

Absutely not going to allow the turrets. That ain't even close to DnD for me.

[Mitsu]

BTW, no one is commenting on the new spell. It's basically hunters mark on steroids.

Agree, I wonder what is the reason for it. We already have Hex, Elemental Weapon, Hunter's Mark etc. Why the hell add yet again a new spell that does the same.

So next class will get: "Golden Weapon" on level 1? "Weapon deals extra 1d8 dmg for 24 hours because we couldn't think of anything better".

[Max_Killjoy]

I'd be kinda interested in something exactly between the two subclasses, a sort of generalist.

[Mitsu]

Artillerist 3/Evoker 10 FTW cranking out Wands of Magic Missiles! You can make two wands every week for 100 gp each, and with Int 20 each wand does 9 x (d4+6) auto-damage when you use it on full blast, for an average of 76.5 auto-damage. The wand takes about two days to recover full power, but who cares? You can easily have dozens of them anyway.

If you don't want to risk 5% chance of burning out a wand you can use them at almost full power instead.

Nice combo! But broken too, I hope they fix it before release. I already see downtime sheningangs getting tons of Magic Missle Wands and auto-killing everything.

[Foxhound438]

BTW, no one is commenting on the new spell. It's basically hunters mark on steroids.

it's definitely an upgrade to hunter's mark since you don't have to swap targets with it, but it doesn't mesh nicely with the bonus action attacks that the class gives itself. Definitely nice on a fighter with a dip for it, but it's not breaking any new ground in my opinion.

[Rukelnikov]

Refluff them as unstable portals to the elemental plane of Earth. Shoot tiny rocks, and later on provides small chunks of earth that work for half cover

[Anymage]

Rules issue they missed:

You can make a new alchemical homunculus after a long rest, but that kills the first one. If your homunculus was killed within the past hour, you can raise it by spending a first level spell slot, and there are no consequences beyond the loss of spell slot. This sounds like lenient interpretation minion cheese in the making.

[Rukelnikov]

it's definitely an upgrade to hunter's mark since you don't have to swap targets with it, but it doesn't mesh nicely with the bonus action attacks that the class gives itself. Definitely nice on a fighter with a dip for it, but it's not breaking any new ground in my opinion.

Why doesn't it mesh well? You aren't gonna be swapping elements all that often

[Rukelnikov]

Rules issue they missed:

You can make a new alchemical homunculus after a long rest, but that kills the first one. If your homunculus was killed within the past hour, you can raise it by spending a first level spell slot, and there are no consequences beyond the loss of spell slot. This sounds like lenient interpretation minion cheese in the making.

True, but not that directly exploitable since you only get a single bonus action.

[Contrast]

Absutely not going to allow the turrets. That ain't even close to DnD for me.

I mean you can fluff them as balls of magical energy which fire out the magic imbued in them by the caster at his direction if you like. Or hell just as an enchanted suit of animated armour, letting loose blasts of magic with a wave of his hand.

[thoroughlyS]

Oof, if you're a fan of ranger seeing this guy's pet tupperware getting significantly more HP than your wolf has to hurt.
Honestly, the resource-free healing hurts more. Even revised ranger didn't get that.

[Mitsu]

it's definitely an upgrade to hunter's mark since you don't have to swap targets with it, but it doesn't mesh nicely with the bonus action attacks that the class gives itself. Definitely nice on a fighter with a dip for it, but it's not breaking any new ground in my opinion.

Yeah, it get's pretty obsolate later anyway when you have better conc buffs like Shadow Blade, Haste, Holy Weapon and so on. However I still think it's lazy as hell to introduce YET ANOTHER spell simillar to Hunter's Mark. They could instead of another 1d6 make giving weapon +1 to hit for 1 hour or something like that. Something different.

[MaxWilson]

Nice combo! But broken too, I hope they fix it before release. I already see downtime sheningangs getting tons of Magic Missle Wands and auto-killing everything.

There's not much to be done really, unless you want to fix the Evoker. Artillerist just does it faster and cheaper.


Rules issue they missed:

You can make a new alchemical homunculus after a long rest, but that kills the first one. If your homunculus was killed within the past hour, you can raise it by spending a first level spell slot, and there are no consequences beyond the loss of spell slot. This sounds like lenient interpretation minion cheese in the making.

Hmmm. If you then make a third homonculus, would that kill the second one, the first one, or both? :-)

[Makorel]

I gotta say I'm really enjoying this Artificer, but the crowning jewel for me has to be that you can use any artisan's tools as your spellcasting focus because it covers so much conceptual ground. All at once the door has been flung open for a wide range of character concepts, just looking at the artisan tool list we have:

Painter's Tools - An artist that uses the magic of drawing to create magical effects and creatures.
Mason's Tools - A stoneworker who in a Pygmalion-esque fashion brings statues to life to do his bidding.
Weaver's Tools - A Seamstress who literally knits spells and constructs together from the weave.
Smith's Tools - A smith who builds machines that can replicate spell and be used for combat. In particular I'm imagining a grumpy dwarf smith who scoffs at magic and says his stuff is only "spell-like" and that his machines are always better.
Cooks Utensils - A Chef whose homunculus is an actual man made of gingerbread, and its alchemical salve is offering itself up to be eaten by other party members.

And that's just off the top of my head. You could probably think of any sort of profession or craft, tie it to the nearest analogue in the artisan tools table (or a component pouch if all else fails, or maybe your own special tool because artisan tools were mostly fluff before Xanathar's anyway) and through the magic of "being really good at something" you've got yourself a D&D character.

[Mitsu]

Honestly, the resource-free healing hurts more. Even revised ranger didn't get that.

Was about to mention that. What is the point of giving Artificier basicelly better pet that have HP that scales with him (on level 10 that Hommunculus have 50 HP flat) while rangers are many times stuck with pet much weaker than that. And free-healing is imo little broken.

Maybe he should burn slot to heal it (more healing then) simillar of how Moon Druids can.

[MaxWilson]

Smith's Tools - A smith who builds machines that can replicate spell and be used for combat. In particular I'm imagining a grumpy dwarf smith who scoffs at magic and says his stuff is only "spell-like" and that his machines are always better.

Hahahaha, then a wizard Counterspells his stuff and smirks. "Face it, dude, they're just spells."


Was about to mention that. What is the point of giving Artificier basicelly better pet that have HP that scales with him (on level 10 that Hommunculus have 50 HP flat) while rangers are many times stuck with pet much weaker than that. And free-healing is imo little broken.

Maybe he should burn slot to heal it (more healing then) simillar of how Moon Druids can.

Only, the Ranger has access to Healing Spirit, which in practical terms is basically infinite healing already.

[Rukelnikov]

Yeah, it get's pretty obsolate later anyway when you have better conc buffs like Shadow Blade, Haste, Holy Weapon and so on. However I still think it's lazy as hell to introduce YET ANOTHER spell simillar to Hunter's Mark. They could instead of another 1d6 make giving weapon +1 to hit for 1 hour or something like that. Something different.

Yeah, it's not as good as those, however, for a 3rd lvl spell you can have the buff active for essentially the whole day. Haste and SB last a single encounter.

[jaappleton]

Arcane Weapon is there for the last line.

Your weapon is now considered magical.

Couple that with Arcane Armament... Now you can attack twice.

[Contrast]

Was about to mention that. What is the point of giving Artificier basicelly better pet that have HP that scales with him (on level 10 that Hommunculus have 50 HP flat) while rangers are many times stuck with pet much weaker than that. And free-healing is imo little broken.

Maybe he should burn slot to heal it (more healing then) simillar of how Moon Druids can.

I mean...should we be using Beastmaster as the standard here? I feel 'this is better than Beastmaster' should be praise, not criticism.

[Rukelnikov]

Arcane Weapon is there for the last line.

Your weapon is now considered magical.

Couple that with Arcane Armament... Now you can attack twice.

Hmm yeah, but by the time you get Arcane Armament you could have already taken the weapon infusion, and you will likely do it anyways to give magic weapon to the entire party

[Max_Killjoy]

then a wizard Counterspells his stuff and smirks. "Face it, dude, they're just spells."


Which is in a way one of those horrible traps involved in reskinning or refluffing in general.

[Rukelnikov]

I mean...should we be using Beastmaster as the standard here? I feel 'this is better than Beastmaster' should be praise, not criticism.

Beast master is the only subclass exclusively dedicated to getting a pet. Thus all pets are rightly compared to it. Even if it's only to mock the poor phb ranger

[Daithi]

You could also view it as a replacement for Arcane Trickster. One of my first thoughts was to multi-class with the rogue for a souped up arcane trickster, but the artificer already gets proficiency and expertise with thieves tools and the capstone abilities at 18 and 20 are pretty good, so it might not be worth the rogue dip. Yes, you lose all kinds of rogue benefits, but you gain all kinds of magical items benefits.

I like the artificer. IMHO, it was worth the delay and making us wait until the end of the day on the last day in February.

[OvisCaedo]

There's some neat stuff here. I actually do miss the magic gun, but eh.

what's weirder to me is just that it's still a "magic item" class that doesn't get UMD. I was going to question the wand crafting, but it looks like none of the wands actually HAD requirements for specific class attunement, just any spellcaster. So, alright.

[Contrast]

Hmm yeah, but by the time you get Arcane Armament you could have already taken the weapon infusion, and you will likely do it anyways to give magic weapon to the entire party


each of your infusions
can be in only one object at a time

I believe you can only have one Enhanced Weapon on the go at a time.


Edit -


Beast master is the only subclass exclusively dedicated to getting a pet. Thus all pets are rightly compared to it. Even if it's only to mock the poor phb ranger

Right but...why is it a bad thing that its better than the ranger? Or do we agree that its a good thing?

[Mitsu]

Yeah, it's not as good as those, however, for a 3rd lvl spell you can have the buff active for essentially the whole day. Haste and SB last a single encounter.

True, but is still concentration. Now way to waste conc on 1d6 buff for a weapon while on 3rd level and above spells you have tons of great concentration spells. Even if that is 8 hours.

Also imo Counterspell could be very problematic for Artificer.

But I could see Artificier 6/Wizard 14 to be some utility master. But then again- aren't wizards already a utility masters and Bladesingers also get extra attack?

[Makorel]

Hahahaha, then a wizard Counterspells his stuff and smirks. "Face it, dude, they're just spells."


No that was a "spell-like effect" :smallwink:. And the artificer isn't merely spells. He's got companions that can't be counterspelled and a decent combat option with Enhance Weapon allowing for extra attacks. I think you can still go very engineer with this even if it's technically a spellcaster.

[Mitsu]

capstone abilities at 18 and 20 are pretty good, so it might not be worth the rogue dip.

One should never ever multiclass/chose class basing on level 18, yet level 20 capstones. The chances to get there are super slim, the chances for playing on level 20 long enough to even have fun with capstone is even more slim.

Also I think Artificier 6-14 features are little lackluster in my opinion.

[thoroughlyS]

I like the artificer. IMHO, it was worth the delay and making us wait until the end of the day on the last day in February.
I like it too, and it has a lot of the goodies I thought it should have... two years ago. Like, most of the changes were things people brought up back then (e.g. half-caster, extra attack, pseudo-spells, wands). The infusion system is pretty great, but it doesn't exactly scream "polished" (see the complaint about level requirements). And there a few things that kind of feel weird, like the turret.

All in all, great unearthed arcana (just feels kind of late).

[Sigreid]

Looking at the turrets I'm thinking 1d8+int temporary hitpoints to your whole party (potentially) every freaking round as a bonus action is pretty darn good.

[Foxhound438]

thinking about it, many handed pouch has got to be an absolutely hilarious item at times.

"NPC refuses to shake your hand, probably because they think they're better than you"
"Hmmm, I guess I'll offer him a gift. I hand him a pouch."
"NPC looks confused but reaches inside"
"I put my hand in the other pouch and shake his hand"

[Mitsu]

On the bright side, it seems like pretty balanced class and not a material for munchkin power builds like Sorcadins, Sorlocks, Hexadins, Hexblades etc.

So it might be one of those classes that is much better to level up without multi as there is not much material here for any OP build that other multi build wouldn't do better.

Which is imo- a good thing.

[Mitsu]

Looking at the turrets I'm thinking 1d8+int temporary hitpoints to your whole party (potentially) every freaking round as a bonus action is pretty darn good.

But if I remember correctly, you can have only one temporary hit points effect on yourself and you can't stack them. So Inspiring Leader and Aid are still better options than this one since they don't stack.

[Foxhound438]

Looking at the turrets I'm thinking 1d8+int temporary hitpoints to your whole party (potentially) every freaking round as a bonus action is pretty darn good.

definitely up there in terms of powerful support abilities, at lower levels your one round of actions will already be pretty close to on par with the THP that an inspiring leader would provide. However, theirs scales better and is put on for free outside of combat before your front-liners have a chance to sprint off outside of the 10' reach. It might be worth spending the spell slot (effectively) to precast some turret THP though.

[Sigreid]

But if I remember correctly, you can have only one temporary hit points effect on yourself and you can't stack them. So Inspiring Leader and Aid are still better options than this one since they don't stack.

They do, but they don't refresh. Basically every round you get your current temp HP or the new roll of 1d8+int, whichever is better for you. Over the course of 10 minutes that could be a lot of protection.

[jaappleton]

This is the only half Caster with a d8 HD. Just wanted to point that out.

Personally I typically like mixing in 2 levels of Bladesinger for Bladesong, but it’s a bit undeniable that the Artificer is more focused on Ranged combat. Don’t think the bonus AC is needed.

I agree it could substitute for a Rogue. Sure I can’t lick the lock on the door... But I can look through the keyhole and use my teleportation boots to pop over to the other side.

[jaappleton]

Anyone else getting some Axton from Borderlands 2 vibes from the Turrets?

[Contrast]

Edit - ninja'd :smallbiggrin:

[jaappleton]

You can use the boots to teleport back somewhere you've already been this turn, not to somewhere you haven't. I was sad when I realised that but they would have been way too good otherwise :smalltongue:

Well good thing I wouldn’t say that >_>

[Contrast]

Whoops mispost, my bad

[Misterwhisper]

definitely up there in terms of powerful support abilities, at lower levels your one round of actions will already be pretty close to on par with the THP that an inspiring leader would provide. However, theirs scales better and is put on for free outside of combat before your front-liners have a chance to sprint off outside of the 10' reach. It might be worth spending the spell slot (effectively) to precast some turret THP though.

It is only a bonus action to activate every round. Only an action to summon.
That is 8 or 9 thp every round if they are in 10 feet and at 14 half cover, and you can have 2 turrets so two sets of Mobil half cover one that aut heals and the other to blast for 4d8 all for a bonus action.

The idea that a warforged envoy can have a built in undisarmable magic foci that is a tool and have 7 tool proficiencies all with expertise is stupid powerful.

At level 3 they can make their armor and weapon magic for free, which take a warlock both a pact and an invocation to just get the weapon.

They can also make the only throwing weapon build in the game that is even reasonable.

Medium armor, shields, and a d8 hd. That is up there.

A cantrip can heal their pets for 2d6 or 2d8 a cast is crazy. Also unlike all other pets theirs have scaling hp.

The alchemist gets int to damage of two schools, their healing and can cast healing spells with int. That is like double the use of a draconian sorcerer and a splash of divine soul.

Artilerist get int to damage of a cantrip before evokers do.

Their turret which is also mobile gets a built in mini repelling blast which again a warlock has to pay for.

They get gaurenteed magic items of many types as they need them thus pissing off reatrictive dms.

It is like they took a lot of support abilities from other classes, made them better, and have them sooner.

It would be nice if mike mearls could come up with something without ripping of a video game he is playing. Rather pathetic and fanboyish.

[Foxhound438]

Winged boots seems like a very easy choice once you hit level 8, no? It's concentration free flight after all.

[R.Shackleford]

https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-Artificer-2019.pdf

This is what I would expect the 4e artificer to look like in a 3e/5e shell. I hope they expand on this a lot (and fix some damage on turret) as this is how you make a class.

Looks like Wizards just got replaced as the Int caster in my groups.

[Chronos]

They have half-casting, but start getting their spells at 1st level, instead of 2nd. This isn't too big a deal, but it'd be weird if you take one level in artificer, then multiclass: Suddenly you lose the two spell slots that you had.

And the pets have nearly as many HP as PCs, and are easily healed and easily replaced. It seems kind of funny for a cauldron with legs to be the party's tank.

3rd level is also really early to be able to give three creatures of your choice flight for ten minutes. I can say that that would have come in really handy in my group's last session, when we were down a pit deeper than everyone's ropes tied together, and had to make our way out. Also, what happens to the daily limit on Alchemical Salve when the homunculus dies and you make a new one?

[R.Shackleford]

Many Handed Pouch + Snake-Tsunami (Animal Messenger)

Actually, Many Handed Pouch is downright evil. Love it!

[thoroughlyS]

At level 3 they can make their armor and weapon magic for free, which take a warlock both a pact and an invocation to just get the weapon.
Technically, the magic weapon part happens with the Pact Boon alone. However, you're still right that it would take an invocation to use it as a focus.

They can also make the only throwing weapon build in the game that is even reasonable.
That's more of a fault in the system than the class.

A cantrip can heal their pets for 2d6 or 2d8 a cast is crazy. Also unlike all other pets theirs have scaling hp.
Technically, the beast master's companion also has scaling hp, just slightly slower. However, I totally agree on the healing.That's the part that really makes a difference.

I totally agree on the healing. That's kind of bananas.The alchemist gets int to damage of two schools, their healing and can cast healing spells with int. That is like double the use of a draconian sorcerer and a splash of divine soul.
It's more like double dipping evoker and life domain. Flatly better, but I wouldn't say game breaking considering the half-caster chassis.




They have half-casting, but start getting their spells at 1st level, instead of 2nd. This isn't too big a deal, but it'd be weird if you take one level in artificer, then multiclass: Suddenly you lose the two spell slots that you had.
That's not exactly how that would work, because you don't get the spellcasting feature on a paladin or ranger until 2nd. That said, you would basically always be a level behind any soloclass half-caster.

Also, what happens to the daily limit on Alchemical Salve when the homunculus dies and you make a new one?
You have to finish a long rest to create another homunculus.

[Tetrasodium]

Absutely not going to allow the turrets. That ain't even close to DnD for me.

@mephnick: It's a stripped down portable siege staff that can be used by one person instead of a team run siege staff. It's just poorly described & only eberron has siege staffs. A siege staff is basically wand>rod>staff>telephone/tree sized siege staff.


Refluff them as unstable portals to the elemental plane of Earth. Shoot tiny rocks, and later on provides small chunks of earth that work for half cover

@Rukelnikov: There is no such plane in eberron's planes (https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Planes_of_Eberron). I'm not sure who or what you are responding to, such a thing absolutely has no place at the built into the class level.


This is the only half Caster with a d8 HD. Just wanted to point that out.

Personally I typically like mixing in 2 levels of Bladesinger for Bladesong, but it’s a bit undeniable that the Artificer is more focused on Ranged combat. Don’t think the bonus AC is needed.

I agree it could substitute for a Rogue. Sure I can’t lick the lock on the door... But I can look through the keyhole and use my teleportation boots to pop over to the other side.

@jaappleton: two levels of wizard:war magic for tactical wit (int mod to initiative) & arcane deflection (+ac/save bonus as a reaction) might be a good option too It would have the added benefits of wizard spell book to scribe a big chunk of ritual spells you don't need to prep plus the ritual caster version that artificer should have had from the beginning.

[thoroughlyS]

Sure I can’t lick the lock on the door... But I can look through the keyhole and use my teleportation boots to pop over to the other side.
The teleportation is only to a space you already were.

So what I'm saying is it's great for getting out of traps.

[Mitsu]

The alchemist gets int to damage of two schools, their healing and can cast healing spells with int. That is like double the use of a draconian sorcerer and a splash of divine soul.

Before we jump from hype, it's not actually that good. First of all reason why many people took Draconic Sorc is because fire damage is very potent in terms of spells: Green Flame Blade is one of strongest spells in game even if it's a cantrip, Fireball is one of best AOE, Scorching Ray is very good single target burst damage, Fire Shield is nice retaliation.

However Artificier can only add bonus to two damage types: Acid and Poison

"When you cast a spell using your alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus, you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell. That roll must restore hit points or be a damage roll that deals acid or poison damage"

Poison we can drop already. It's most resistant and most immune damage type in game and lacks good spells. It would be nice with poisons but it needs to be spell so not bonus to poisoned weapons.

Acid is little better, but again - there is not many decent Acid-based spells in game that would replace a clearly better damage dealing spells from Wizard list.

Also I don't think it works with Arcane Weapon: Acid. Because the reason why Draconic bonus to spell damage roll works with GFB is because GFB is a spell. Arcane Weapon itself just adds a bonus damage to weapon attacks. Even if it worked with Arcane Weapon, the buff itself does not scale damage on higher slots and there are better concentration spells.

Healing is nice, but I definitelly thing that their cantrip heal + this bonus to their pets is broken af. It way too strong imo.

[ZorroGames]

https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-Artificer-2019.pdf

Let me know when it is not UA and actual class.

[LudicSavant]

...So what happens to your spell slots if you go Artificer 1 / Paladin 1?

Look at the Artificer spell table. Now look at the multiclassing rules.

[Daphne]

...So what happens to your spell slots if you go Artificer 1 / Paladin 1?

Look at the Artificer spell table. Now look at the multiclassing rules.

1st level Paladins are not spellcasters so that rule does not apply.

[hwem]

I think I'm going to go variant Human with war caster to go artificer1/wizard19 or in that route. I will be able to have medium armor, shield, CON saving throw+advantage on it with war caster. I'd be able to max INT and CON with warcaster and maybe lucky or alert...if the campaign somehow goes that far XD

Wizard with a dip into artificer seems so strong!

[Rukelnikov]

Anyone else getting some Axton from Borderlands 2 vibes from the Turrets?

Yup, Borderlands Soldier was the first thing I thought lol


@Rukelnikov: There is no such plane in eberron's planes (https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Planes_of_Eberron). I'm not sure who or what you are responding to, such a thing absolutely has no place at the built into the class level.

Good thing my Lantanites live in FR lol


I believe you can only have one Enhanced Weapon on the go at a time.

Ahhh, you're right. And yeah, I thought about it some more and @jaappleton has it right. My idea of spending an infusion on it is suboptimal unless your bread and butter every turn will be attacking. If you plan a more varied playstyle, you can spend your infusion in something else that will be usable even when not attacking, like the boots, or some wondrous item, and if you wanna attack use the buff that makes you arrack better and doubles by letting you make an extra attack.

What I like the most of the spell is the magic shooter vibe it has, I can choose to shoot whichever element I want, it works mechanically and fluffily.


Right but...why is it a bad thing that its better than the ranger? Or do we agree that its a good thing?

It's not a bad thing for the artificer, but it is a bad thing that the only pet focused class in the game get a worse pet (without heavy investment/optimization) than the first ability of the alchemist.

[Ganymede]

I reqlly do not like the micromanagement over what implements can be used in what circumstances. The PHB already gives the implied freedom to select our implements as we choose, so why get into such detail over special allowances and restrictions?

Just let us use our own implements and trust us to pick something thematic.

[Finback]

Absutely not going to allow the turrets. That ain't even close to DnD for me.

I disagree in that we have had similar constructs for many years - clockwork horrors, for instance, which were basically construct spiders that could move around. All this is doing is putting a ranged attack on top of them. Hell, some of them, like the platinum horror, had a rod of lightning built in. So there is a precedent for stuff like this, it just depends on how techno-magic you want in your setting (hence why we have Eberron, which is kind of the focus for this class anyway, since the blurb in the document is heavily centred on Eberron play.)

[Mitsu]

It's not a bad thing for the artificer, but it is a bad thing that the only pet focused class in the game get a worse pet (without heavy investment/optimization) than the first ability of the alchemist.

Agree, it's too good for the Rangers sake. It's HP scalling is too good imo. Maybe 3 x Level instead of 5 x and buff a damage of turrets a little to compensate. And reduce cantrip healing.


Also I wonder how well would Artificier 8/Wizard 10/Paladin 2 work. He could use Divine Smites, have more slots and still pick up a lot of Utility and some self buffs.

[LudicSavant]

1st level Paladins are not spellcasters so that rule does not apply.

So it does. Let me rephrase then.

If you go EK 4, you have 3 first level slots. You take 1 level in Artificer. How many spell slots do you have now?

[Rukelnikov]

I disagree in that we have had similar constructs for many years - clockwork horrors, for instance, which were basically construct spiders that could move around. All this is doing is putting a ranged attack on top of them. Hell, some of them, like the platinum horror, had a rod of lightning built in. So there is a precedent for stuff like this, it just depends on how techno-magic you want in your setting (hence why we have Eberron, which is kind of the focus for this class anyway, since the blurb in the document is heavily centred on Eberron play.)

We've also had Mechanus for decades so... Its not like clockwork AI's are not a thing in DnD

[thoroughlyS]

It's not a bad thing for the artificer, but it is a bad thing that the only pet focused class in the game get a worse pet (without heavy investment/optimization) than the first ability of the alchemist.
Agree, it's too good for the Rangers sake. It's HP scalling is too good imo. Maybe 3 x Level instead of 5 x and buff a damage of turrets a little to compensate. And reduce cantrip healing.
The difference in hp between the homunculus and the beast master's companion is negligible. It has 1 additional hp per level, which is next to nothing. The real difference is the healing. It should really be axed.

[Personification]

thinking about it, many handed pouch has got to be an absolutely hilarious item at times.

"NPC refuses to shake your hand, probably because they think they're better than you"
"Hmmm, I guess I'll offer him a gift. I hand him a pouch."
"NPC looks confused but reaches inside"
"I put my hand in the other pouch and shake his hand"

"Roll 1d100, on a 50 or below he gets sucked into my Bag of Devouring. Nobody disrespects the House Cannith!"

I mean, putting your hand in an artificer's bag without checking, especially an artificer you were just rude to, is like picking up a duck in a dungeon.

On the subject of balance and casting, I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out that there are approximately 4 non-cantrip spells that can do damage on the list. This is not a damage-caster, this is a utility-caster. (Though admittedly that does make arcane weapon even worse, as it competes with tons of concentration spells.) Anyway, I for one really like the class, and based on the wording of the UA rescheduling section of the main post, it sounds like they intend to put out at least one more UA-worth of Artificer stuff, my guesses being a robot-subclass, a dollamancer-subclass, and/or more infusions.

EDIT: To clarify for those who don't read Erfworld, Dollamancers also work with clothing, which is what I was thinking about with the subclass.

[Foxhound438]

*snip*

I dunno, you can compare any x from here to some y from another class, but different classes can get different utility at different costs. It's not that big of a deal that they get to have a magic weapon for one of their infusions while it costs a warlock "their whole pact boon", because these guys don't get a pact boon and they also don't get full spellcasting or the best cantrip in the game. You also mention that they "basically get the draconic sorcerer benefit twice", but look at the spell list! it only applies to all of 2 cantrips and 4 leveled spells, most of which being on the lower end of effectiveness in the first place. And that 4 leveled spells is in fact counting cure wounds, which isn't great in terms of healing to begin with.

[Rukelnikov]

Agree, it's too good for the Rangers sake. It's HP scalling is too good imo. Maybe 3 x Level instead of 5 x and buff a damage of turrets a little to compensate. And reduce cantrip healing.

I disagree with all the "buff the turrets" request, they already damn good IMO.

At 3rd lvl its better than a 2nd lvl slot Spiritual Weapon, 9 avg damage vs 7.5 (with 16 Wis), has 120 range, and lasts 10 minutes. You also spend only a 1st lvl slot, and you aren't actually casting a spell, so you can summon turret and cast. And finally, you arent limited to attacking only, get breath weapon for hordes, or THP for tanking.

With all those benefits into account, I'd say its at least comparable to a 4th slot Spirital Weapon 13 damage at lvl 7 (18 Wis), and you are doing it with a 1st lvl one.

It lags behind between 11-13 (tbh I've never seen a cleric spend their highest level slot on spiritual wepon, but they could I guess...)

But at 14 you can get 2 of them doing 2x9 avg damage, comparable to a 6th slot Spiritual weapon 18.5 damage, for 1st lvl slots (first 2 are free!!)

[samcifer]

To me, the loss of the gunsmith subclass hurts. I really enjoyed it and played one as a time and space-displaced cowboy who had a sabretooth tiger re-skinned as a direwolf. He was rather fun to play.

[MinimanMidget]

On the subject of balance and casting, I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out that there are approximately 4 non-cantrip spells that can do damage on the list. This is not a damage-caster, this is a utility-caster.

The subclasses both get plenty of great damage spells automatically.

[Rukelnikov]

The difference in hp between the homunculus and the beast master's companion is negligible. It has 1 additional hp per level, which is next to nothing. The real difference is the healing. It should really be axed.

I don't see the healing as THAT important personally, but maybe that's just me.

Having it attack as Bonus Action, instead of eating up one of my attacks is good.

Having it give Int instances of advantage 3 times per day, is HUGE, take that Bards!

Concentration-less flight at lvl 3? OP, it may not be fast, but im still out of reach and shooting magic bullets from the air.

[JoeJ]

I disagree in that we have had similar constructs for many years - clockwork horrors, for instance, which were basically construct spiders that could move around. All this is doing is putting a ranged attack on top of them. Hell, some of them, like the platinum horror, had a rod of lightning built in. So there is a precedent for stuff like this, it just depends on how techno-magic you want in your setting (hence why we have Eberron, which is kind of the focus for this class anyway, since the blurb in the document is heavily centred on Eberron play.)

It might be easier to envision how turrets fit into a fantasy world if they had included some appropriate artwork. Just from reading the description, they sound more like something that would fit into Star Wars than D&D.

[Tetrasodium]

Good thing my Lantanites live in FR lol



you miss my point. your original post on it said to refluff "them" with no quote or indication of what "them" might have been. You also made no indcation if you meant refluff at the table or class as written either. If at the table & your GM is cool with that, have fun... if at the class as written level, just no.

[Rukelnikov]

It might be easier to envision how turrets fit into a fantasy world if they had included some appropriate artwork. Just from reading the description, they sound more like something that would fit into Star Wars than D&D.

I picture them Modron-like. Though tbf my settings have never failed to have killer robots constructs in them, so maybe thats why I don't mind.

[Personification]

The subclasses both get plenty of great damage spells automatically.

Point taken, I hadn't noticed that before. On that note however, I like how the fact that they limit most damage spells to your subclass means that they can tie the flavor to the spell list. Potions and poisons guy does poison and toxic gas damage, explosion and wall guy does explosion and wall damage.

[Rukelnikov]

you miss my point. your original post on it said to refluff "them" with no quote or indication of what "them" might have been. You also made no indcation if you meant refluff at the table or class as written either. If at the table & your GM is cool with that, have fun... if at the class as written level, just no.

I dig the turrets, since I love killing machines, but some have already expressed their suspension of disbelief being thinned by semi-automated turrets in a medieval fantasy setting.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Isn't the 'healing' only temp hp for the Homunculous? seems perfectly fine as one of 3/day abilties that targets 1 creature.

Not sure if the turrets are a problem. They are good until later levels, you spending spells if you're doing it regularly to fuel them and as a half caster you don't have a whole bunch until 2d8 damage is very meh.

Unless of course you're using them as bombs. 3d8 force damage in 10ft radius for a 1st level spell.

Still idk, it's still probably weaker than things in the phb. It is however pretty consistent, and Turrets are way better the longer the fight is.

[Foxhound438]

something I missed the first time through, the turrets can walk or climb up to 15 feet whenever you activate them, so you can in fact march it down into a cave, giving it multiple fights of use if they're within 10 minutes. I don't think that's as big of a deal as just being able to reposition it in the first place, since multiple combat adventuring days aren't guaranteed in the first place but it's pretty neat none the less. Marching a flamethrower into a nest of goblins and then detonating it would be fun if nothing else.

[Foxhound438]

Unless of course you're using them as bombs. 3d8 force damage in 10ft radius for a 1st level spell.


*3d6, and it does cost you two actions a piece at that point.

[Tetrasodium]

It might be easier to envision how turrets fit into a fantasy world if they had included some appropriate artwork. Just from reading the description, they sound more like something that would fit into Star Wars than D&D.

I don't think there has ever been artwork of a siege staff published & the book that should have covered them (forge of war) didn't include them. Think of it as a steel predator (mtof239) with with half/quarter of a telephone pole sized wand instead of that dog/cat torso & head add a couple extra legs if you need to.

[Rukelnikov]

Isn't the 'healing' only temp hp for the Homunculous? seems perfectly fine as one of 3/day abilties that targets 1 creature.

Not sure if the turrets are a problem. They are good until later levels, you spending spells if you're doing it regularly to fuel them and as a half caster you don't have a whole bunch until 2d8 damage is very meh.

Unless of course you're using them as bombs. 3d8 force damage in 10ft radius for a 1st level spell.

Still idk, it's still probably weaker than things in the phb. It is however pretty consistent, and Turrets are way better the longer the fight is.


*3d6, and it does cost you two actions a piece at that point.

Hmm I was focusing my weight of the turrets worth based on the other 2 options, but a second look at flamethrower makes me think that option is indeed weak, I was thinking of having the shooting turret walk like 30 or 40 ft behind the party to keep it alive for multiple fights, and to prevent surprise attacks from the back, but Flamethower only has 15 ft range, meaning if the fight is more than 30 ft away from it, you'll have to spend a BA just to move it closer the first round, and attacking in the second one... Under those conditions, I'd either turn it into a 30 ft range 5 foot spread attack, or add Int to damage.

[Foxhound438]

Hmm I was focusing my weight of the turrets worth based on the other 2 options, but a second look at flamethrower makes me think that option is indeed weak, I was thinking of having the shooting turret walk like 30 or 40 ft behind the party to keep it alive for multiple fights, and to prevent surprise attacks from the back, but Flamethower only has 15 ft range, meaning if the fight is more than 30 ft away from it, you'll have to spend a BA just to move it closer the first round, and attacking in the second one... Under those conditions, I'd either turn it into a 30 ft range 5 foot spread attack, or add Int to damage.

I think being AOE with garunteed partial damage is probably good enough, though the short range on the attack does make it more difficult to use. I would probably try to argue that I can longstrider the turret to make it go 25 feet at a time to keep up with enemies, but even if it was just forcing enemies away from itself that might be a valuable thing to have anyways.

[Rukelnikov]

I think being AOE with garunteed partial damage is probably good enough, though the short range on the attack does make it more difficult to use.

As long as you hit 2 targets with it, you should be doing comparable damage to the turret, slightly less probably, but its compensated by the fact that if you get 3+ in the cone you are surpassing it. Problem is, as you said, mobility. It will be hard managing to reliably get 2 enemies in the cone.


I would probably try to argue that I can longstrider the turret to make it go 25 feet at a time to keep up with enemies, but even if it was just forcing enemies away from itself that might be a valuable thing to have anyways.

I was thinking about that, homunculus can definitely be buffed, its a creature with statistics, but I'm afraid turrets cant (though it could perfectly be changed!), since it says "The turret is a magical object", and its not given a proper sheet.

[JoeJ]

I would probably try to argue that I can longstrider the turret to make it go 25 feet at a time to keep up with enemies, but even if it was just forcing enemies away from itself that might be a valuable thing to have anyways.

Longstrider only affects creatures. The turret is a magical object.

[Foxhound438]

Anyways, while I'm here, here's a build that I've come up with at level 8. 8 is kind of arbitrary but it gets a decent mid-level look at the class in a place that I think we've all played at so it's kind of a good reference point.

Turrety McShootstuff

Lv. 8 arteficier (artillerist)

Deep gnome

Stat line: 8/18/14/18/10/10

AC 19 (half plate, shield, +4 dex capped to +2), Initiative +4, Spd 30

HP 59 (respectable as a ranged attacker but far from great regardless)

Features: Gnome Cunning (advantage on mental saves vs. spells), Superior Darkvision, Magical Tinkering, Infuse Item (5 known, 3 active), Arcane Turrets, Tool Expertice, Arcane Armament, Wand Prototype.

Infusions: Returning Weapon (dagger) (always in use), cloak of the manta ray (sometimes used), Many Handed Pouch (always in use), Enhanced Defense (sometimes used), Resistant Armor (usually in use, type by expected need)

Spells prepared: Shocking Grasp (via wand prototype for +int when used), Mage Hand, Mending, Shield, Thunderwave, Arcane Weapon, Alarm, Detect Magic, Grease, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Arcane Lock, Protection from Poison, Blur, Levitate

Typically in combat he'd throw down a turret on turn one and have it shoot for 2d8, then in subsequent rounds he'd run to range with an enemy and throw the dagger twice. DPR once set up is 2x 1d4+5 + 2d8, or around 24 DPR average before accuracy. A full setup round adding in Arcane Weapon to get a little more allows for 31 DPR but without any damage on the first turn. It's very comparable to other half casters once it's online, where monks deal about 28 without using flurry of blows and a paladin with PAM does a pinch more.

I chose to split the two ASI's here between int and dex since the turret's attacks will key off of int in every case. Having a slightly better spell save DC on your thunderwave and such isn't bad anyways. Using a shield is a bit awkward in the end as you would have to drop your weapon in order to take out your spellcasting tools if you did need to cast a spell at a point, but I think that's largely forgivable since most of the time you want to be using attacks anyways, as far as I can tell. Maybe the extra couple of damage and longer range from a shortbow makes that better overall, but it's hard to tell without actually testing it. I would also strongly consider picking high elf as the race for a longbow if I was going to forego the shield anyways.

I chose deep gnome here for the enhanced darkvision mostly, as I couldn't really see a feat from V.Human doing too much good. Crossbow expert would largely be wasted since you have a fine bonus action attack from your class feature, sharpshooter isn't great here since you don't have anything that really pairs well with the deadly aim aspect of it, war caster is a hard maybe depending on what spells you pick (you still need your implement for material component spells and unlike a cleric you can't have it merged with your shield), so the best thing I could come up with for a feat was Lucky, but I felt seeing in the dark could (game depending) be a better thing for a ranged damage dealer.

[Foxhound438]

Longstrider only affects creatures. The turret is a magical object.

I know >:( but I would argue it, and some DM's might think it's cute enough to allow it anyways

[JoeJ]

I don't think there has ever been artwork of a siege staff published & the book that should have covered them (forge of war) didn't include them. Think of it as a steel predator (mtof239) with with half/quarter of a telephone pole sized wand instead of that dog/cat torso & head add a couple extra legs if you need to.

This UA doesn't say anything about a siege staff, but I have problems aesthetically with mechanical-sounding turrets that are summoned with an action and shoot force beams. If it appeared at the end of a long rest, like the homunculus (presumably because you spent several hours building it), and if it fired little cannons for piercing damage instead of force damage, it would fit beautifully into Spelljammer. As it is, though, it just doesn't work for me.

[stoutstien]

No tiny servants on spell list seems like an over sight.
I don't know how I feel about this yet. It's a lot better than earlier versions and cantrip swapping is a good feature.
The class spell list and expanded lists are diverse and ritual casting feels right for a artificers.
The extra attack wording seems off don't know why.

[Grey Watcher]

I gotta say I'm really enjoying this Artificer, but the crowning jewel for me has to be that you can use any artisan's tools as your spellcasting focus because it covers so much conceptual ground. All at once the door has been flung open for a wide range of character concepts, just looking at the artisan tool list we have:

Painter's Tools - An artist that uses the magic of drawing to create magical effects and creatures.

...

I'm glad there's finally a way to make Relm from Final Fantasy VI. :smallbiggrin:



Also, am I the only one that finds this bit silly:


The following numbers increase
by 1 when your proficiency bonus increases by 1: the
homunculus’s skill bonuses and the bonuses to hit and
damage of its Acidic Spittle.

This seems needlessly complicated. Wouldn't it just be simpler to say that it uses its master's proficiency bonus and have the damage scale like a cantrip?

[Tetrasodium]

This UA doesn't say anything about a siege staff, but I have problems aesthetically with mechanical-sounding turrets that are summoned with an action and shoot force beams. If it appeared at the end of a long rest, like the homunculus (presumably because you spent several hours building it), and if it fired little cannons for piercing damage instead of force damage, it would fit beautifully into Spelljammer. As it is, though, it just doesn't work for me.

it does not say it, but it describes a smaller more portable version of one. I suspet that moregraves misc will go into detail on siege staffs when it is released "soon".

[Throne12]

This is the only half Caster with a d8 HD. Just wanted to point that out.

Personally I typically like mixing in 2 levels of Bladesinger for Bladesong, but it’s a bit undeniable that the Artificer is more focused on Ranged combat. Don’t think the bonus AC is needed.

I agree it could substitute for a Rogue. Sure I can’t lick the lock on the door... But I can look through the keyhole and use my teleportation boots to pop over to the other side.

Umm I believe the boots only teleport you back to a stop you where previously at. So you couldn't Tele through the key hole.

Mearls is a big over watch fan so I'm sure he ripped that from Tracer.

[Sigreid]

Get a flying carpet, summon your turret(s) on the carpet and BAM! you are the airforce!

[Slayn82]

Dragonshard, an old RTS based on Eberron, had Turrets somewhat like those in a level full of lizardman. They were kind of person sized dragon heads made of stone. Unlike traps, they couldn't be disabled, and unlike creatures you couldn't crowd control them. Just break them down. I think some of them could explode, but I may be mistaken.

[Rukelnikov]

I'm glad there's finally a way to make Relm from Final Fantasy VI. :smallbiggrin:

Awww, cuteness cant be stopped


Get a flying carpet, summon your turret(s) on the carpet and BAM! you are the airforce!

Damn! This is awesome!!

And got me thinking, this piece of junk grapples at +0, and has no given weight. Have your barbarian go Force Ballista and Spear!!!

[RifleAvenger]

To me, the loss of the gunsmith subclass hurts. I really enjoyed it and played one as a time and space-displaced cowboy who had a sabretooth tiger re-skinned as a direwolf. He was rather fun to play.If your GM allows homebrew... well there's a lot out there likely, but the Machinist from the Final Fantasy 14 fan supplement is a lot more focused on gunplay. Maybe too much though, as the author tried to mimic more of the MMO limited mechanics for some of the classes. That left 5e MCH less competent at actually dealing with machines as one might hope in favor of a lot of class abilities about shooty shooty bang bang.

As for the Artificer itself, I like it. Introducing non-familiar pets that don't suck to non-homebrew/houserules is a needed change. People shouldn't be looking askance at Artificer for having a pet better than Beastmaster, they should ask why Beastmaster hasn't been errata'd yet.

[Rukelnikov]

Dragonshard, an old RTS based on Eberron, had Turrets somewhat like those in a level full of lizardman. They were kind of person sized dragon heads made of stone. Unlike traps, they couldn't be disabled, and unlike creatures you couldn't crowd control them. Just break them down. I think some of them could explode, but I may be mistaken.

That was my fiest encounter with Eberron, maybe it wasn't that good of an RTS, but for some reason I loved it.

[Sigreid]

For a more dungeon friendly solution to their low walking speed, get a wheelbarrow to have your turret sit on after you cast it. you could even do a little setup where you have a small wall on wheels with a platform out front for the turret to sit on that you push through the dungeon.

There's all kinds of ways to make a 15' move speed totally not an issue.

[JoeJ]

For a more dungeon friendly solution to their low walking speed, get a wheelbarrow to have your turret sit on after you cast it. you could even do a little setup where you have a small wall on wheels with a platform out front for the turret to sit on that you push through the dungeon.

There's all kinds of ways to make a 15' move speed totally not an issue.

That would be easier to judge if we had been told how much these things weigh.

[ProsecutorGodot]

For a more dungeon friendly solution to their low walking speed, get a wheelbarrow to have your turret sit on after you cast it. you could even do a little setup where you have a small wall on wheels with a platform out front for the turret to sit on that you push through the dungeon.

There's all kinds of ways to make a 15' move speed totally not an issue.

Tenser's Floating Disk is looking pretty appealing right now.

Alternatively, you can carry (grapple) your own turret and cast Longstrider on yourself to carry it.

That would be easier to judge if we had been told how much these things weigh.
The biggest problem isn't so much the weight (I imagine it doesn't weight a whole lot anyway, since it's an arcane construct) but the fact that it's Medium sized and takes up a space.

[stoutstien]

Tenser's Floating Disk is looking pretty appealing right now.

Alternatively, you can carry (grapple) your own turret and cast Longstrider on yourself to carry it.
Warforged with a platform on shoulder(s)?seeing how it is immune to grapple

[Tetrasodium]

Tenser's Floating Disk is looking pretty appealing right now.

Alternatively, you can carry (grapple) your own turret and cast Longstrider on yourself to carry it.

The biggest problem isn't so much the weight (I imagine it doesn't weight a whole lot anyway, since it's an arcane construct) but the fact that it's Medium sized and takes up a space.

weirdly that isn't on the artificer spell list.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Warforged with a platform on shoulder(s)?seeing how it is immune to grapple

I hadn't even considered that since it was immune to being grappled. I guess now we've got to decide whether it has to be considered grappling, it's not a creature.


weirdly that isn't on the artificer spell list.
Easy enough to dip a level in Wizard or have someone in your party that can cast it.

[Personification]

I mentioned it earlier, but does anyone have any guesses on what future Artificer UA content could be? (The post says next UA will probably be more artificer)

[MaxWilson]

There's all kinds of ways to make a 15' move speed totally not an issue.

It can ride on a centaur riding a centaur riding a Moon Druid.

[Slayn82]

I hadn't even considered that since it was immune to being grappled. I guess now we've got to decide whether it has to be considered grappling, it's not a creature.


I was trying to imagine a guy dodging around the battlefield while the turret over his head zaps everything nearby, but somehow what comes to me is those videos of guys with Mannequin heads dancing.

Not that it would actually be that out of place on D&D battlefields.

Also, on several Asian novels, there's guys summoning cauldrons and using them to fight their enemies. The turret has quite a bit of that feeling, love it. I wish there was a mobile version that allowed you to use Cantrips originating from it.

I'd style my turrets after the Xorns.

[Foxhound438]

I mentioned it earlier, but does anyone have any guesses on what future Artificer UA content could be? (The post says next UA will probably be more artificer)

safest bet would be revisions of what's already there after a survey, but more infusions (particularly of higher level, where currently it's only magic item replications past level 8) would be something I would expect, spells out of Xanathar's guide being put on their spell list, maybe another subclass or two down the line, and maybe some more artificer specific spells.

[Arkhios]

.......I don’t dislike it. But at the same time it does nothing to really knock my socks off.

I feel compelled to say, that this is actually a good thing. To me it says that the class is actually well designed as it won't necessarily become the new "Hero Class" (WoW reference, feel free to ask if it doesn't mean anything to you), and will only pique interest from those who are already interested in playing a character like this.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I was trying to imagine a guy dodging around the battlefield while the turret over his head zaps everything nearby, but somehow what comes to me is those videos of guys with Mannequin heads dancing.

Not that it would actually be that out of place on D&D battlefields.

Also, on several Asian novels, there's guys summoning cauldrons and using them to fight their enemies. The turret has quite a bit of that feeling, love it. I wish there was a mobile version that allowed you to use Cantrips originating from it.

I'd style my turrets after the Xorns.

The Artificer I'd penned up before this was released was going to be a cook, to work at Trollskull Tavern for us. My first thought afterwards was to have him wield a wooden mixing spoon as a boomerang and use stew pots as his turrets.

Why have "crablike" legs when you can have Crab Pots?

[Malifice]

I like it.

Artillery is quite fun looking, going all Engineer smacking down turrets. Whats cool is that destroying them deals damage in an aoe. So if you want to burn some spell slots to nuke a location just slam some turrets down on top of each other.

Action to set up, bonus action to activate. turn 2 bonus action activate, Action to detonate.

Only have 1 turret active at a time till 14th when you can have 2.


Artillerist 3/Evoker 10 FTW cranking out Wands of Magic Missiles! You can make two wands every week for 100 gp each, and with Int 20 each wand does 9 x (d4+6) auto-damage when you use it on full blast, for an average of 76.5 auto-damage. The wand takes about two days to recover full power, but who cares? You can easily have dozens of them anyway.

If you don't want to risk 5% chance of burning out a wand you can use them at almost full power instead.


Artillerist 3/Evoker 10 FTW cranking out Wands of Magic Missiles! You can make two wands every week for 100 gp each, and with Int 20 each wand does 9 x (d4+6) auto-damage when you use it on full blast, for an average of 76.5 auto-damage.

Add Hexblade 1 for a further +2-6 to the damage per dart.

[Malifice]

They have half-casting, but start getting their spells at 1st level, instead of 2nd. This isn't too big a deal, but it'd be weird if you take one level in artificer, then multiclass: Suddenly you lose the two spell slots that you had.

That cant happen.

Multiclass spellcasting rules only apply if you have more than 1 class with the spellcasting feature.

So an Articier 1/ Fighter 1 still casts spells as a 1st level Artificer (MC rules do not apply).

A Wizard 1/ Artificer 1 casts spells as a 1st level Wizard (1 + [1/2 of 1 round down] 0) with the spells known as a 1st level Artificer and a 1st level Wizard.

[Tetrasodium]

Looking deeper, it's a great start... but still needs a good bit of work (not an unexpected thing with UA). In no particular order

Level 1-2 are so sparse on features that it feels like the archtype selection got moved from L1 (where it is for cleric/sorc/wiz) to L3.
The L10 ability right cabtrip for the job lets you swap out your cantrips on a long/short rest. given the ultra ribbony status of magical tinkering, this should probably be available at L1
The L2-3 infusions are lackluster of a good day. +1 ac to a piece of armor, +1 to a weapon, make a simple thrown weapon+1 & returning (neat,but niche & not especially useful when you have even 1attack cantrip). a forge cleric is a full caster in heavy armor that can give someone the same +1 at level 1. Warlocks get their patron at L1 along with the best damage cantrip in the game, at L2 warlock still has a plethora pf great invocation options, there is no reason for the L2-3 infusions top be so lackluster
the L4-7 infusions are odd and too limited. Boots of the winding path are cool & all but they should be an option at L2 or not require attunement. Many handed pouch sounds really useful, but it's 2-5 pouches that share an extradimensional space as large as one pouch... That works out to 1/5 cubic foot(2.4x2.4x2.4 inches) or 6# of gear. Then at 8 & 12 they suddenly get a bunch of really great options
Full casters have six blank levels, half casters have three... Artificer is a half caster with six blank levels.
The alchemist's Alchemical mastery looks great and all adding int mod+1 to healing spells... but unlike the full caster life cleric who gets that with wis mod+1 along with heavy armor prof & more at level 1, the artificer gets it at level six. Yes the artificer also gets to cast lesser restoration int mod/day without using a spellslot, but does lesser restoration & a modified L1 life cleric ability really hold them over till level fourteen when they get acid resist/poison immune & cast greater restoration 1x/long rest... Really? Put in perspective, at L6, an artificer has 4 1st& 2 2nd level spell slots; at L6, a cleric has 4 1st, 3 2nd, & 3 3rd.
They can craft certain things faster/cheaper if you are using one of the still not quite right half baked crafting rulesets. uhh....
The artilerist gets some nice spells... the alchemist... not so much
artilerist: at 6th level they can make a cantrip wand during a long rest making the L10 ribbony ribbon rather curious Perhaps the base class should have this at L1-2 & get the 14th level second cantrip on the wand option at 6?
Tghe small siege staff "turret" is pretty good, but why 15' speed slow with 2/3 short range effects? Ok they didn't want to give repelling eldritch blast for a bonus action, but why reduce the damage die and pushback and number of attacks? With the 10-15' range on defender & flame thrower turrets, does it really need 15' speed? Eberron is a setting with a hundred years of arcane civil war just past. slow speed and 100' cone sure, good speed & 10-15' cone maybe, slow speed and 10-15' cone not so much.
Become an EK/AT & take a level of artificer, you lose spellslots. Granted the round down wording in the multiclassing is almost certainly an oversight... but the fix should be to make it a roundup corner case not make L1 even more unappealing by taking away the casting or something
Given how lackluster so much of the things noted above are, why does theslow moving L6 turret on a half caster only let you summon it once without spending a spell slot when it's already slow enough to make dismiss & resummon next fight seem like the intended thing?
The L14 artilerist ability is really awesome, why is the L14 alchemist ability so bleeping bad?
Presumably there are a number of unfinished features not yet finished enough for UA?
why is the spell list so limited? Should they have a spellbook like wizards?... probably. Should they have wizard style ritual caster? ... Probably.
I'm east coast & it's really late

[Malifice]

[QUOTE=Foxhound438;23742593]Typically in combat he'd throw down a turret on turn one and have it shoot for 2d8, then in subsequent rounds he'd run to range with an enemy and throw the dagger twice. DPR once set up is 2x 1d4+5 + 2d8, or around 24 DPR average before accuracy. A full setup round adding in Arcane Weapon to get a little more allows for 31 DPR but without any damage on the first turn.

Arcane weapon lasts 1 hour as a bonus action cast. It's intended to be active basically over several encounters. You dont need a set up round (and it's only a bonus action cast in any event).

For mine, I'd ditch the shield and use a +1 Heavy crossbow with CE and SS (and Arcane Weapon pre-cast). Hand crossbow is OK but you're probably using your bonus action most round to use your Homoculous or your Turret so its superflous. 1d10+14+1d6 per shot hurts.

A gun is even better, presuming you can find a work around the loading property.

Dont forget to bring a few wands for backup.

[Malifice]

Become an EK/AT & take a level of artificer, you lose spellslots.

No, you dont.

[Tetrasodium]

No, you don't.

A L3 EK has 2 1st level slots. Divide that level by 3 per 164/165 & you are using the L1 spell slots/level on that chart. Add one level of artificer & divide it in half before rounding down to get zero per the sidebar even though it's a half caster that gets frst level spells at L1 (when it should get them). You are right that it doesn't go down, but it doesn't work like it should

[ProsecutorGodot]

A L3 EK has 2 1st level slots. Divide that level by 3 per 164/165 & you are using the L1 spell slots/level on that chart. Add one level of artificer & divide it in half before rounding down to get zero per the sidebar even though it's a half caster that gets frst level spells at L1 (when it should get them). You are right that it doesn't go down, but it doesn't work like it should

Seems to me like it's working exactly as it should.

Like I said in another thread about Artificer speculation, this is a good chance for WotC to "break the rules" in terms of what they've done with classes previously. An Arcane half caster that starts with spell slots but doesn't interfere with the established multiclassing spell slot progression if a player were to choose to multiclass into that class is pretty good.

I'd even go so far as to say it was (probably accidentally the cynical part of me thinks) a pretty smart design choice.

[LudicSavant]

A L3 EK has 2 1st level slots. Divide that level by 3 per 164/165 & you are using the L1 spell slots/level on that chart. Add one level of artificer & divide it in half before rounding down to get zero per the sidebar even though it's a half caster that gets frst level spells at L1 (when it should get them). You are right that it doesn't go down, but it doesn't work like it should

Check what happens when you have a level 4 EK that takes a level of Artificer.

[ATHATH]

I want to work Wand Prototype into a cantrip-focused build, but I don't think that a 6 level investment for a +3 or so boost to damage is worth it.

Why does the artificer not get access to better magic item replicas (from their infusions) until 12th level? Like, c'mon, give us some more options at level 5 or so, don't just leave us with the same stuff that we're supposed to use at level 2 at level 11. I mean, I guess the boots of the winding path (pretty bad, considering that you have to teleport back to a place that you've been THAT ROUND), the many-handed pouch (which actually hurts my brain when I try to think of how it's supposed to work), and the 1/day blindness as a reaction are supposed to tide us over, but the diversity in (good) options is kind of low between 6th and 11th level, IMO.

Speaking of the pouch... What happens when two people reach into two different pouches at the same time? Can they shake each other's hands? Can you touch the inner bones of someone else's hand while they're reaching into it? What happens if a pixie or something flies into it and then looks up? What happens if it tries to fly out again? What happens if you put a mirror in there and then try to look at your own reflection? Is sound transmitted between the different pouches? Can someone with access to Enlarge/Reduce use it as basically a teleportation gate? Which way does gravity go in there? If you have two pouches 5 ft. from each other in one place and then two more pouches (that are also 5 ft. from each other) 1,000,000 miles away from the first two pouches, they should all be linked to the same interdimensional space, right? They're all "within 100 miles of another one of the pouches." What happens if you infuse pouches of vastly different sizes? What's the size limit for pouch creation? Can you declare a tent to be a pouch and then use it as a discount Rope Trick?

[Twigwit]

Not sure if anyone brought this up already, but two Artificiers working in tandem have a very cheeky trick to get rid of virtually any enemy.

Step 1: have two level three alchemist artificers.
Step 2: have both take Replicate magic item: bag of holding.
Step 3: each morning give the two bags of holding to one of the artificers homunculi.
Step 4: find an enemy whose day you want/need to ruin.
Step 5: have the suicide homunculi fly up to you the enemy and place one bag of holding in the other.
Step 6: watch as your enemy is sucked into the Astral Plane with no saving throw.
Step 7: replace homunculi, go to step 3.

[JoeJ]

Level 1-2 are so sparse on features that it feels like the archtype selection got moved from L1 (where it is for cleric/sorc/wiz) to L3.

It probably feels that way because the archetype selection is at level 3. "At 3rd level, you choose the kind of specialist you are: Alchemist or Artillerist."

[Theodoric]

It's a decent set-up with a lot of potential for refluffing, though the subclasses don't quite work for a runesmith-type character.

[Malifice]

A L3 EK has 2 1st level slots. Divide that level by 3 per 164/165 & you are using the L1 spell slots/level on that chart. Add one level of artificer & divide it in half before rounding down to get zero per the sidebar even though it's a half caster that gets frst level spells at L1 (when it should get them). You are right that it doesn't go down, but it doesn't work like it should

You get more spells, just not more slots.

If you added a level of Paladin or another 1/2 caster it wouldnt give you anything for your spellcasting.

So it's slightly better than the other half casters (more spells known and more cantrips for a single level) but doesnt give you more spell slots.

[Malifice]

Check what happens when you have a level 4 EK that takes a level of Artificer.

Ah yes I see.

Your slots/day drop from 3 to 2.

There is a problem.

[MeeposFire]

No tiny servants on spell list seems like an over sight.
I don't know how I feel about this yet. It's a lot better than earlier versions and cantrip swapping is a good feature.
The class spell list and expanded lists are diverse and ritual casting feels right for a artificers.
The extra attack wording seems off don't know why.

Is that a spell from a non_phb source? If so those often do not show up on spell lists for these things. That would be a good spell to add anyway though.

[MeeposFire]

One thing I would want addressed is the dead level at level 7 and 15. Granted I have never been a fan of dead levels for new spell levels on 1/2 casters (though I do tend to pretend that new bonus spells count as a feature on those levels) but level 7 seems to be a true dead level and we should avoid that (EDIT: just noticed you do get an infusion so not truly dead but I still want an actual feature on top).

I am thinking perhaps giving it UMD and maybe extra atunnments (do not change the new max at level 20 but instead og getting +3 at level 20 maybe one extra early on and get another 2 at level 20).

Whoever was saying about making artificer part warlock was on to something infusions are the artificer equivalent to invocations at least in terms of class abilities (though not necessarily how they work).

[Foxhound438]

Arcane weapon lasts 1 hour as a bonus action cast. It's intended to be active basically over several encounters. You dont need a set up round (and it's only a bonus action cast in any event).

For mine, I'd ditch the shield and use a +1 Heavy crossbow with CE and SS (and Arcane Weapon pre-cast). Hand crossbow is OK but you're probably using your bonus action most round to use your Homoculous or your Turret so its superflous. 1d10+14+1d6 per shot hurts.

A gun is even better, presuming you can find a work around the loading property.

Dont forget to bring a few wands for backup.

remember it's also an action to summon the turret, and if you're spending an action to summon and a bonus action to arcane weapon, that's your whole first turn. Yes you can have it precast, but that's never a guarantee, especially if you don't have a good scout.

The sharpshooter choice is just not great in my opinion, you have no good way to get advantage on attacks consistently and you don't have a flat bonus to offset the -5 to attacks. I just don't think it's worth the ASI to pick that up.

[Zalabim]

So the Infuse Item feature says to pick two infusions to learn when you gain it, but the table says you start with three infusions known. Also, the wording on how many infused items you can have at once and how many items you can infuse at the end of a long rest is still a bit clunky and unclear. The limit for total infused items seems to be "each infusion you know can be on one item" rather than "you can infuse X items at the end of a long rest." That's just how fast you can replace or move around your infusions.

This is the only half Caster with a d8 HD. Just wanted to point that out.

Personally I typically like mixing in 2 levels of Bladesinger for Bladesong, but it’s a bit undeniable that the Artificer is more focused on Ranged combat. Don’t think the bonus AC is needed.

I agree it could substitute for a Rogue. Sure I can’t lick the lock on the door... But I can look through the keyhole and use my teleportation boots to pop over to the other side.
Not sure why you'd want to lick it, but you can still pick it.

One thing I would want addressed is the dead level at level 7 and 15. Granted I have never been a fan of dead levels for new spell levels on 1/2 casters (though I do tend to pretend that new bonus spells count as a feature on those levels) but level 7 seems to be a true dead level and we should avoid that (EDIT: just noticed you do get an infusion so not truly dead but I still want an actual feature on top).

I am thinking perhaps giving it UMD and maybe extra atunnments (do not change the new max at level 20 but instead og getting +3 at level 20 maybe one extra early on and get another 2 at level 20).

Whoever was saying about making artificer part warlock was on to something infusions are the artificer equivalent to invocations at least in terms of class abilities (though not necessarily how they work).
They're not really dead levels with the new infusion learned at those levels, but adding in an additional attunement slot or something more ribbon-y on those levels seems like a good idea.

[jaappleton]

Seems like they should get Slow.

[Xayah]

Is it just me or is Magical Tinkering very underwhelming as a first level feature? I like the class a lot but comparing to PHB Classes, Druid is the only one that gets an almost purely roleplaying feature at lvl 1, and they get spellcasting (granted so does Artificer) and have one of the coolest lvl 2 feature in the game (Wild Shape). Infusing is cool and all, but it’s nowhere near that level imo.

Now, if Magical Tinkering turns the weapon into a magic weapon so it works with your extra attack and overcomes resistances, that’s a different story, but it doesn’t say that so I’m assuming not.

[Malifice]

I wish we had a Blast-ificer without the turret thing.

Looks like they're going for the 'support role/ skill monkey' niche with the Artificer also. Lots of party buffing.

I dont mind that niche. Id prefer it if they could craft X iterations of 1+Int mod [minor magic items that buff allies] instead though.

Basically if you have an Artificer in the party, they provide magical trinkets to the party, and each of those trinkets gives them slight buffs.

[Throne12]

For a more dungeon friendly solution to their low walking speed, get a wheelbarrow to have your turret sit on after you cast it. you could even do a little setup where you have a small wall on wheels with a platform out front for the turret to sit on that you push through the dungeon.

There's all kinds of ways to make a 15' move speed totally not an issue.

Why not just use tenser's flotting disk.

[Max_Killjoy]

Level 1-2 are so sparse on features that it feels like the archtype selection got moved from L1 (where it is for cleric/sorc/wiz) to L3.




It probably feels that way because the archetype selection is at level 3. "At 3rd level, you choose the kind of specialist you are: Alchemist or Artillerist."


They didn't say it feels like it's there, they said it feels like it was moved there. As in, it was at L1, and then during revisions it was moved to L3, without other corresponding changes to offset.

[Contrast]

What happens if you infuse pouches of vastly different sizes? What's the size limit for pouch creation? Can you declare a tent to be a pouch and then use it as a discount Rope Trick?

A pouch is an actual thing in the PHB. It's capable of holding '20 sling bullets or 50 blowgun needles, among other things'. I too was surprised they didn't clarify this a little better.


Why not just use tenser's flotting disk.

Spend 10 mins casting a ritual so my turret which lasts 10 mins can be dragged along behind me at normal speed? Or we could have just spent those 10 mins walking. Or you could expend a spell slot but then you may as well just expend a spell slot to resummon the turret when you get where you're going.

[Tetrasodium]

It probably feels that way because the archetype selection is at level 3. "At 3rd level, you choose the kind of specialist you are: Alchemist or Artillerist."

you misunderstand or I was unclear. PRior to L3, the base class only gets ribbony ribbon abilities. Other archtypes that split at levels beyond L1 get notable abilities in the base class. For example:

Barbarian gets Rage, unarmored defense, reckless attack & danger sense prior to their archtype @3
Bard gets full casting, Bardic inspiration, Jack of all trades, & song of rest, prior to their archtype @3
Cleric gets archtype at 1st & various spells known/proficiencies/a nifty domain benefit (disciple of life/bonus cantrip/warding flare/wrath of the storm/etc). It feels lkike
Druid gets full spellcasting @1and then at level2 picks uptheir archtype goodies @2
Fighter gets Fighting style, second wind, & action surge prior to their archtype @3
Paladin gets Divine sense, lay on hands, fighting style, halfcasting@2, & divine smite prior to their archtype @3
Ranger gets Favored enemy, natural explorer, fighting style, & half caster prior to their archtype @3
Rogue gets expertise, sneak attack, & cunning action prior to their archtype @3
Wizard gets full casting, arcane recovery, ritual caster that doesn't require spells to be preped, & a spellbook they can scribe/copy spells into prior to their split at 2
like the cleric, sorc & warlock all get theirarchtype at 1st with nifty archtype features & the L2 warlock invocations are orders of magnitude more interesting/useful than the L2 infusion options with the L4 infusions still being iffy.


Every class that has an archtype split at 3 has notable base class features at level 1-2, the artificer has level 1-2 base class abilities as if they were designed with a 1st level split that got pushed back to level 3 without adjusting(or finishing?) the 1-2 stuff. It's made more likely that things were moved last minute when you look at later level abilities like alchemical mastery, wand prototype, & right cantrip for the job (the ability or portions of it) that look like they are built for L1-2 or don't fit the levels they are gained at. Take right cantrip for the job.. Wotc/dndbeyond came out & confirmed that most games wrap up/close off at/around L10 a while back making it a bizarre place to stick something like "you can swap your cantrips out during a rest 4 levels after one archtype can make a wand that gives them 1 more catrip they can swap out by sticking it on a wand".

[Tetrasodium]

A pouch is an actual thing in the PHB. It's capable of holding '20 sling bullets or 50 blowgun needles, among other things'. I too was surprised they didn't clarify this a little better.



Spend 10 mins casting a ritual so my turret which lasts 10 mins can be dragged along behind me at normal speed? Or we could have just spent those 10 mins walking. Or you could expend a spell slot but then you may as well just expend a spell slot to resummon the turret when you get where you're going.

I originally thought the same on the pouch & did more digging PHB153 on the pouch. 1/5 cubic foot/6 pounds of gear.

[Mjolnirbear]

You could have fun with Booming Blade and Repelling Turret or those boots. I'm...conflicted about the wandslinger. Because the extra attack feature. There are limited subclasses that get both cantrips and extra attack, and they're all classes that don't have one of those two features in the base class.

So you could be tossing lightning hammers or thunder spears which is AWESOME but your wandslinging, the features you get at third and sixth level, feel like afterthoughts.

I would get Magic Initiate every time I built an artificer. Every. Time. Daddy needs more cantrips!

I do like the class. It *feels* right. I feel bad for rangers, but they have more inherent combat ability built into the base class.

Keep in mind that homunculous pet does temp hp healing, and Mending has a cast time of one minute so is not useful in combat.

[Grey Watcher]

Not sure if anyone brought this up already, but two Artificiers working in tandem have a very cheeky trick to get rid of virtually any enemy.

Step 1: have two level three alchemist artificers.
Step 2: have both take Replicate magic item: bag of holding.
Step 3: each morning give the two bags of holding to one of the artificers homunculi.
Step 4: find an enemy whose day you want/need to ruin.
Step 5: have the suicide homunculi fly up to you the enemy and place one bag of holding in the other.
Step 6: watch as your enemy is sucked into the Astral Plane with no saving throw.
Step 7: replace homunculi, go to step 3.

Now I'm wondering: can a homunculus (or a familiar, for that matter), refuse an order from its master because it's blatantly suicidal? (As a DM, I'd Rule 0 yes it can, but that is a Rule 0 patch.)

[Amdy_vill]

Some thoughts:

Intelligence based half Caster
Does NOT get Extra Attack, but something quasi-similar
Like the Infusions
Like the spell list overall

Archetypes essentially break down to Defense VS Offense

Proficiency in Con and Int saves

D8 HD

.......I don’t dislike it. But at the same time it does nothing to really knock my socks off.

Don't like i being a half caster. besides that I agree with you.

[Appleheart]

Oh boy was I excited for this one, and.... uhm... yeah, I am not sure! :D

It immediately feel that the Artillerist subclass is just flat out better than the Alchemist, pretty much across the board. The Defender turret makes it a better support subclass even, with the pulsing AoE temp HP for a whole fight, as opposed to just 3 small packets of temp HP for the Alchemist.

I also really liked the idea of the crazed alchemist throwing potions around for damage, and while "Alchemical Mastery" does allow you to do this, the limitation on Poison/Acid damage spells feels misplaced. It should include fire as well. Alchemist Fire is a thing after all. :)

The solution for Extra Attack and the new magic weapon spell are both really neat though, and I can really see a more attack-based artificer being a very fun option.

[Beechgnome]

In general, I like it. Feels more like what I imagine an Artificer to be.

One thing: I think somewhere between version one and two they lost the gradual extra attunements you get for magic items (though soul of artifice gets it). I would bring back those for the 'dead levels' people are referring to. Your own ability to make attuneable minor items is gimped by the limit of how many you can actually use. I would bump it to 4 at 7th level and 5 at 15th.

[MrStabby]

I don't like the artificer as a concept. Not going to fit at my table... but I think the implementation looks pretty good, at least for the levels we play at (usually 1 to 10ish)

Tool expertise, con save proficiency- some good stuff. Now I can use brewing equipment to cast spells as well.

The half caster set up is solid - second attack and some combat boosts and some spell boosts (like swapping out cantrips) to compensate the casting side. It feels like the spells are also a good match; you can do OK damage with two attacks anyway so more damaging spells is not really the most important addition. Also heat metal as a bonus action ability on a class that should be able to keep concentration on it seems a really nice touch.

Spell storing item(s) seems a little over the top... but in a world where wish/simulacrum came along at the previous level I can't complain too much.

The artillerist looks fun (although as written it seems to suggest its spells come from the alchemists table - I assume a typo). The spells are good spells... but getting damaging spells so many levels behind others at the table is a bit sucky. More dedicated class spells would help a lot.

I think the class could do with just a little more to it. The summons seem to be carrying a lot of the weight. That said, if more content is to be added (class specific spells, more infusion choices, more subclasses) then I could see it being pretty cool. It feels like we are one splat book away from some o these things being pretty awesome (a good acid spell that could be picked up by a dip, for example).

On that note, is the intention that if the alchemist gets healing word then at level 6 they can heal d4+stat+int hp as a bonus action? I could see this and a dip of life cleric fun for keeping the party up whilst not slowing down with your own actions. I presume it is not expected to work with goodberry.

[jaappleton]

This is going to sound super weird.

Because it doesn't exist.

But does anyone else feel like half caster isn't... quite right?

Its martial enough that it shouldn't be a full caster.

But it seems like it should be just slightly more than a half caster.

We have 1/3rd casters... I kinda feel like Artificer should've been 2/3rd? Or get an ability that replenishes spell slots like Arcane Recovery? Maybe that should be a lv7 ability, since its almost a dead level.

[MaxWilson]

Spend 10 mins casting a ritual so my turret which lasts 10 mins can be dragged along behind me at normal speed? Or we could have just spent those 10 mins walking. Or you could expend a spell slot but then you may as well just expend a spell slot to resummon the turret when you get where you're going.

I think the idea is more "spend ten minutes every hour casting a ritual so that if I wind up summoning a turret I can use it for a full ten minutes and not just for six to eighteen seconds."

[Rukelnikov]

About the dead levels what about:

"One of the magic items requiring attunement that you created with your infusions doesn't count against your attunement limit"



The sharpshooter choice is just not great in my opinion, you have no good way to get advantage on attacks consistently and you don't have a flat bonus to offset the -5 to attacks. I just don't think it's worth the ASI to pick that up.

The Homunculus can give a lot of instances of advantage, thing is I don't think it's optimal to give them to yourself, you should be buffing allies.

[jaappleton]

THEY BURIED THE LEAD

This was on the website, in the article section. I linked directly to the PDF.

"A Note on UA Scheduling

We typically look to release Unearthed Arcana once a month. The series remains a valuable opportunity for us to publish playtest content and gather your feedback. That said, we want to release Unearthed Arcana content only when it is ready for you to try. Moving forward, this content will release on a more flexible schedule, roughly once a month and on whatever day works best that month. We’ll let you know when the next UA installment is ready! (There’s a good chance it will contain more content for the artificer.)"

So UA was the 1st Monday of every month.
Then the 2nd Monday of the month.
Now its 'roughly once a month, whenever'

.....Come the hell on.

[Monster Manuel]

This is going to sound super weird.

Because it doesn't exist.

But does anyone else feel like half caster isn't... quite right?

Its martial enough that it shouldn't be a full caster.

But it seems like it should be just slightly more than a half caster.

We have 1/3rd casters... I kinda feel like Artificer should've been 2/3rd? Or get an ability that replenishes spell slots like Arcane Recovery? Maybe that should be a lv7 ability, since its almost a dead level.

I totally agree. These guys feel very caster-y, and half-caster doesn't quite feel right. I think they are most of the way there, what with this being the only 1/2 caster with cantrips, as well as the bonus spells known. I think if they did something like Arcane Recovery that's all I would need (and could be perfectly thematic, with a "recharging your batteries" kind of fluff).

Side note: help me understand the HP calculation for the Homunculus, I'm having an issue with the intended order of operations. They get "five times your level in this class + your int modifier". Is that intended as (5 x L) + Int, or 5 x (L + Int)? They should fix the ambiguous wording, since it makes a big difference.

[Rukelnikov]

I totally agree. These guys feel very caster-y, and half-caster doesn't quite feel right. I think they are most of the way there, what with this being the only 1/2 caster with cantrips, as well as the bonus spells known. I think if they did something like Arcane Recovery that's all I would need (and could be perfectly thematic, with a "recharging your batteries" kind of fluff).

Side note: help me understand the HP calculation for the Homunculus, I'm having an issue with the intended order of operations. They get "five times your level in this class + your int modifier". Is that intended as (5 x L) + Int, or 5 x (L + Int)? They should fix the ambiguous wording, since it makes a big difference.

Im pretty sure its L*5+Int

[Personification]

I think that the solution to the weirdness with Artificer half casting is to either make it round up to determine caster level, which avoids the EK4/Art 1 issue, and also generally makes it slightly more powerful for MC, but not much more powerful, or just add a "to a minimum of 1 level" addendum to the end, which fixes the problem without affecting higher level MC. I like the former better, because I feel like artificers have that magical edge in a way paladins don't, but I don't know how it would affect MC balance. Anyway, I vote to call it a 5/8ths caster, because it is more than a half caster, but not much more.

[MaxWilson]

This is going to sound super weird.

Because it doesn't exist.

But does anyone else feel like half caster isn't... quite right?

Its martial enough that it shouldn't be a full caster.

But it seems like it should be just slightly more than a half caster.

We have 1/3rd casters... I kinda feel like Artificer should've been 2/3rd? Or get an ability that replenishes spell slots like Arcane Recovery? Maybe that should be a lv7 ability, since its almost a dead level.

I kind of feel like it should be a half warlock. Full speed progression on spells would prevent Artillerist spells from feeling lame when you get them; 1/hour spellcasting tempo (until level 11) fits the fluff of creating inventions to do stuff. "Here's the gadget I've been working on since breakfast."

I guess you could make it a 2/3 warlock or something by saying "you get half warlock slots AND once per long rest you can cast a spell without a spell slot," so when you need to pull out a burst of MacGuyver-ing you can spin up two inventions at once.

I don't normally pay attention to UA but this one seems pretty decent. If it makes it into print I will consider allowing it in my games; but I don't really mind either if it goes nowhere. 5E has too many mostly-redundant classes already.

[jaappleton]

Side note: help me understand the HP calculation for the Homunculus, I'm having an issue with the intended order of operations. They get "five times your level in this class + your int modifier". Is that intended as (5 x L) + Int, or 5 x (L + Int)? They should fix the ambiguous wording, since it makes a big difference.

I'll ask, but unfortunately, I don't expect an answer. JC's been quiet on twitter, I have a feeling he just handed in the PDF and left to get a drink, clocked out for the day. Can't say I blame him, because I know they missed a few days work this month due to snow, so he was under a real time crunch to get the Artificer done.

[MrStabby]

This is going to sound super weird.

Because it doesn't exist.

But does anyone else feel like half caster isn't... quite right?

Its martial enough that it shouldn't be a full caster.

But it seems like it should be just slightly more than a half caster.

We have 1/3rd casters... I kinda feel like Artificer should've been 2/3rd? Or get an ability that replenishes spell slots like Arcane Recovery? Maybe that should be a lv7 ability, since its almost a dead level.

It does get that ability... but at level 18. I think at an earlier level would be good.

Maybe a warlock style mystic arcanum - less useful/flexible then a spell slot and with less flexibility to swap out spells?

Maybe more wandcraft in the core artificer?

I do think that the big blocker is the lack of it's own spell list. Look at the paladin - wrathful smite, find steed, divine favour... great bonus action spells that enable the paladin to still make two attacks per round. Ranger is somewhat weaker but still has hunters mark and ensnaring strike... Enhancing the list with bonus action and reaction spells and spells that can be cast outside of combat would really help this class.

[Personification]

THEY BURIED THE LEAD

This was on the website, in the article section. I linked directly to the PDF.

"A Note on UA Scheduling

We typically look to release Unearthed Arcana once a month. The series remains a valuable opportunity for us to publish playtest content and gather your feedback. That said, we want to release Unearthed Arcana content only when it is ready for you to try. Moving forward, this content will release on a more flexible schedule, roughly once a month and on whatever day works best that month. We’ll let you know when the next UA installment is ready! (There’s a good chance it will contain more content for the artificer.)"

So UA was the 1st Monday of every month.
Then the 2nd Monday of the month.
Now its 'roughly once a month, whenever'

.....Come the hell on.

In fairness, I saw a lot of people asking for this on the "Artificer?" thread, as a way to limit disappointment on postponements, and I think that over time they have been having more and more trouble with UA issues and the resulting backlash, so this is a good way to limit negative over-hype. I am annoyed too though. But hey, more artificer stuff in the future is nice.

[Contrast]

So UA was the 1st Monday of every month.
Then the 2nd Monday of the month.
Now its 'roughly once a month, whenever'

.....Come the hell on.

I mean personally I'd rather they didn't have a schedule at all and instead just released something when they felt they had something interesting to release, be that twice a month or one thing over three months.

They've clearly been struggling to hit the deadlines and I'd rather no promises than broken promises or a rushed/sloppy/uninspired idea. My opinion would of course be different is UA was a paid product but it isn't.

[jaappleton]

I mean personally I'd rather they didn't have a schedule at all and instead just released something when they felt they had something interesting to release, be that twice a month or one thing over three months.

They've clearly been struggling to hit the deadlines and I'd rather no promises than broken promises or a rushed/sloppy/uninspired idea. My opinion would of course be different is UA was a paid product but it isn't.

I see what you're saying.

But at the same time, I loved having something to look forward to on X day. "Hey, we're getting something new today, sweet!"

Now its kinda just... whenever. And I understand that's much better for the team, on their end. I get that. But at the same time, I fear this is going to be used as something of an excuse. "Hey, we had a convention, so nothing this month." Maybe that's just the cynic in me.

[rbstr]

I really like it overall, I'd totally play one.

Some thoughts:
Level 1 - I get they get casting early compared to the other half casters and the cantrips, but I definitely think they should get d10 hit die and better weapon proficiency.
Level 2 - If you're trying to be a staby-gishy type the two +1 infusions is kinda like getting two fighting styles!

I think I'd rather have the turret scale than get two of them - Especially since it takes and action to summon each. That's some really rough action economy.
I think they need another archetype that's not deployable-based, maybe something to do with crafting/modifying a weapon like the gun one from the earlier draft but more generalized? Or maybe, instead of a weapon-focused "combat archetype" they could build like a worn personal shield generator thingy?

The artilerist should get Lightning Bolt, not Fireball IMO, I see artificers as being "Zappy"

I'm not sure this class scales super well in the mid levels. I guess I need to have a look through the items you can make more closely, but it seems like you might struggle a bit before you get to level 12 and that set of items.
Should be easy enough to do by adding a couple infusions. It'd be cool to have archetype-specific infusions too. Like, Artillerist could take something to help them blast stuff a bit more efficiently.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Now its kinda just... whenever. And I understand that's much better for the team, on their end. I get that. But at the same time, I fear this is going to be used as something of an excuse. "Hey, we had a convention, so nothing this month." Maybe that's just the cynic in me.

But now they don't need an excuse. "When it's ready" (or the Blizzard-trademarked "Soon") means that it's always on time.

[jaappleton]

I really like it overall, I'd totally play one.

Some thoughts:
Level 1 - I get they get casting early compared to the other half casters and the cantrips, but I definitely think they should get d10 hit die and better weapon proficiency.
Level 2 - If you're trying to be a staby-gishy type the two +1 infusions is kinda like getting two fighting styles!

I think I'd rather have the turret scale than get two of them - Especially since it takes and action to summon each. That's some really rough action economy.
I think they need another archetype that's not deployable-based, maybe something to do with crafting/modifying a weapon like the gun one from the earlier draft but more generalized? Or maybe, instead of a weapon-focused "combat archetype" they could build like a worn personal shield generator thingy?

The artilerist should get Lightning Bolt, not Fireball IMO, I see artificers as being "Zappy"

I'm not sure this class scales super well in the mid levels. I guess I need to have a look through the items you can make more closely, but it seems like you might struggle a bit before you get to level 12 and that set of items.
Should be easy enough to do by adding a couple infusions. It'd be cool to have archetype-specific infusions too. Like, Artillerist could take something to help them blast stuff a bit more efficiently.

I thought about Lightning Bolt as well. Like wearing a gauntlet, and opening your palm for a Lightning Bolt to fly out.

But then I considered throwing an object like a grenade and having Fireball explode out of it.

I'm cool with either. Both are pretty sweet.

[jaappleton]

So correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't Artillerists get +Int Mod damage to all cantrips at lv6? Just pick what cantrip you want for the day, lets say Firebolt. And you're spouting off 2d10+Int Mod at lv6?

Do I have that right?

So I can use weapons or cantrips, and I can kick ass either way?

Awhile ago I had this idea for an Eladrin Arcane Gunslinger and this just suddenly became awesome. I can basically flavor my wand as being a Caster from Outlaw Star and use it to shoot both Cantrips and 'bullets' (crossbow bolts). Even those big caster shells, being reflavored as spells! I CAN BE GENE STARWIND!

[rbstr]

But you could also shoot a bow or whatnot with the infusion for +1 too. Which'd probably be better, depending on your dex. Could have arcane weapon on it too.

Many cool options.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I see what you're saying.

But at the same time, I loved having something to look forward to on X day. "Hey, we're getting something new today, sweet!"

Now its kinda just... whenever. And I understand that's much better for the team, on their end. I get that. But at the same time, I fear this is going to be used as something of an excuse. "Hey, we had a convention, so nothing this month." Maybe that's just the cynic in me.

Probably not the cynic in you because they've already used similar excuses in the past.

If they wanted to prevent so much backlash they should communicate more. That's the real issue, they say nothing until the very last moment. I just don't understand how that's 'okay', there's so many ways of communication at their fingertips, not saying anything at all or very very little is just frustrating.

Especially when they communicate about other things all the time.

On another note, Artificer is Half caster +1 with some fun abilities tied to the base. Not sure if adding slightly more spell casting is the way without testing out how it feels. I'm not sold on fullcasting or pact magic, i think its fine right now, though maybe add 1 extra attunement(for infusions) at 10 and at the swiching cantrips at 1 might feel better. The way i look at it, i wouldn't be using most of my infusions for me anyway, they'd be handed out like long lasting buffs.
Magical Tinkering is one of my favorite ribbons so far, removing or sending it higher up doesn't make sense to me, it belongs in the hands of the just starting Artificer.

Future UA for Artificer gets me excited. Someone mentioned rune casting which should be in the artificer's domain here. Subclass would get rune carving tools, makes runes and glyphs maybe. Definitely seems like a potential 3rd subclass.

[ATHATH]

I feel like Artificers should get access to an extra list of infusion-able magic items at level 7 or so; there's sort of a drought of (good) new infusions until level 12 or so, at which point they spike up in value/power massively.

[ATHATH]

Wait a minute... Magic Weapon can be used to proc the Tempest Cleric's lightning damage abilities with a Polearm Master-compatible weapon without needing a specific magic item.

That might make for the basis of a neat build, especially if your DM will let you take the Tunnel Fighter fighting style and/or if you combine it with Booming Blade and War Caster...

[Tetrasodium]

This is going to sound super weird.

Because it doesn't exist.

But does anyone else feel like half caster isn't... quite right?

Its martial enough that it shouldn't be a full caster.

But it seems like it should be just slightly more than a half caster.

We have 1/3rd casters... I kinda feel like Artificer should've been 2/3rd? Or get an ability that replenishes spell slots like Arcane Recovery? Maybe that should be a lv7 ability, since its almost a dead level.

2/3 casters used to exist (3.5) but yes. The half casters are pretty much martial versions of their pure caster, artificer is more like a caster that is a little different. Back in 3.5 I think that artificer was a 2/3 caster (looks it on ecs30). To be honest, rather than arcane recovery added to being 2/3, I'd rather see their abilities improved.

A few people noted the extra attack being out of place. Yes it's out of place for a caster & probably only going to be useful for an extremely limited subset of artificers, being able to infuse a ranged cantrip into a shield or weapon the artificer themselves can be holding to use in melee range without disadvantage would probably be more useful to most artificers. Adding that as an option to magical tinkering would help early levels a lot with some of the problems I noted earlier I think.

[Contrast]

So correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't Artillerists get +Int Mod damage to all cantrips at lv6? Just pick what cantrip you want for the day, lets say Firebolt. And you're spouting off 2d10+Int Mod at lv6?

Well...not ALL cantrips, just the one loaded into the wand, which they are allowed to swap out for any other cantrip on the artificer spell list at the end of a long rest. Slightly awkward in that this means you probably don't want to learn a damage cantrip as it'll be pretty useless after 6th level until 10th level (plus you don't get many and probably want Mending as one - though admittedly not as big a deal for the Artillerist given the 1 min casting time and 10 min duration of the turrets). So your wand guy will likely spend the first 5 levels shooting a crossbow or throwing daggers or something.

[Tectorman]

I see what you're saying.

But at the same time, I loved having something to look forward to on X day. "Hey, we're getting something new today, sweet!"

Now its kinda just... whenever. And I understand that's much better for the team, on their end. I get that. But at the same time, I fear this is going to be used as something of an excuse. "Hey, we had a convention, so nothing this month." Maybe that's just the cynic in me.

Yep. It's the difference between "Hey, it's Saturday. That means another page of Friendship is Dragons" and "I haven't checked Order of the Stick in a while. I wonder if it's been updated".


But now they don't need an excuse. "When it's ready" (or the Blizzard-trademarked "Soon") means that it's always on time.

"An Unearthed Arcana article is never late. Nor is it early. It comes out precisely when it means to."

[Connington]

Well...not ALL cantrips, just the one loaded into the wand, which they are allowed to swap out for any other cantrip on the artificer spell list at the end of a long rest. Slightly awkward in that this means you probably don't want to learn a damage cantrip as it'll be pretty useless after 6th level until 10th level (plus you don't get many and probably want Mending as one - though admittedly not as big a deal for the Artillerist given the 1 min casting time and 10 min duration of the turrets). So your wand guy will likely spend the first 5 levels shooting a crossbow or throwing daggers or something.

Artificers are (uniquely) allowed to switch out cantrips as they level. So your Artillerist could start off with a main attack cantrip, unlearn it and load it onto their wand when they hit level 5, and pick up a utility or combat control cantrip with the free slot.

[Contrast]

Artificers are (uniquely) allowed to switch out cantrips as they level. So your Artillerist could start off with a main attack cantrip, unlearn it and load it onto their wand when they hit level 5, and pick up a utility or combat control cantrip with the free slot.

You know I was sure I'd read something which addressed it but when I went back through I just assumed I was mis-remembering the level 10 ability. Thanks :smallbiggrin:

[MrStabby]

Wait a minute... Magic Weapon can be used to proc the Tempest Cleric's lightning damage abilities with a Polearm Master-compatible weapon without needing a specific magic item.

That might make for the basis of a neat build, especially if your DM will let you take the Tunnel Fighter fighting style and/or if you combine it with Booming Blade and War Caster...

The arcane weapon? Yes. Looks like it. That is a good spot.

[Tectorman]

I gotta say I'm really enjoying this Artificer, but the crowning jewel for me has to be that you can use any artisan's tools as your spellcasting focus because it covers so much conceptual ground. All at once the door has been flung open for a wide range of character concepts, just looking at the artisan tool list we have:

Painter's Tools - An artist that uses the magic of drawing to create magical effects and creatures.
Mason's Tools - A stoneworker who in a Pygmalion-esque fashion brings statues to life to do his bidding.
Weaver's Tools - A Seamstress who literally knits spells and constructs together from the weave.
Smith's Tools - A smith who builds machines that can replicate spell and be used for combat. In particular I'm imagining a grumpy dwarf smith who scoffs at magic and says his stuff is only "spell-like" and that his machines are always better.
Cooks Utensils - A Chef whose homunculus is an actual man made of gingerbread, and its alchemical salve is offering itself up to be eaten by other party members.

And that's just off the top of my head. You could probably think of any sort of profession or craft, tie it to the nearest analogue in the artisan tools table (or a component pouch if all else fails, or maybe your own special tool because artisan tools were mostly fluff before Xanathar's anyway) and through the magic of "being really good at something" you've got yourself a D&D character.

Agreed. This, plus the ability to do the same thing with any item you use an infusion on, is the best part of the class.

Infuse a pair of gloves (specifically, at least one golden glove or gauntlet with a half-dozen gem stones) and you can be Thanos.

Use a ring and you get Green Lantern.

A suit of armor makes you Iron Man. A belt gives you the Bat-Bat-Utility-Bat-Belt. Bat.

I already noted in the other thread the awesomeness of using the Artificer to play a Gunmage.

And second best of all, if you infuse a shield and take care to describe all of the material component aspects of your spellcasting as applying various papers onto the shield's surface, you can save the world with a children's card game (just make sure to summon your Turret in Attack Mode).

Hmm. What happens if you get ahold of Find Steed?

[Hecuba]

I like the structure. Absent a little flexibility from the Lore bard levels, it's almost exactly a match for an adventuring archeologist character I've been running on-and-off for a year or so.

Obviously, there's some room expansion in the way of new subclasses. In particular, I'd like to see a subclass focused on more dungeoneering utility spells - stoneshape, passwall, tiny hut, so forth.

[Twigwit]

Perhaps this is too optimistic, but to me the delaying of UAs, especially this one, means they’re taking its inclusion into core seriously and want a legitimate play test instead of a monthly toy for us to screw around with. Id much rather have fewer UAs that actually impact the direction of new supplements instead of many fleeting UAs.

[Max_Killjoy]

This ALMOST fits the character I was working on a while back, that ended up as a Thief 3 / War Mage 2 / RevRanger 1, loaded up with Skills and Tools, and just using the XGTE crafting rules to handle the item-making parts of it.

Almost. But neither subclass is perfect, it needs a blend of the two.

[LudicSavant]

Ah yes I see.

Your slots/day drop from 3 to 2.

There is a problem.

Yup. There's no way that this should be able to happen. The idea that you can lose spell progression by taking a level in a spellcasting class is just silly. I really hope WotC addresses these sorts of problems with the Artificer.

[gbg42]

On that note, is the intention that if the alchemist gets healing word then at level 6 they can heal d4+stat+int hp as a bonus action? I could see this and a dip of life cleric fun for keeping the party up whilst not slowing down with your own actions. I presume it is not expected to work with goodberry.

Nah, I don't think that works. Healing word isn't on the class list, and the alchemist feature specifies that you have to use your alchemist supplies as the spellcasting focus. If you pick up healing word from a multiclass, you couldn't use the tool list as your focus.

[Damon_Tor]

I like it, in general.

I feel like the shield proficiency is a bit weird, considering the crossbow focus the class otherwise seems to want. Are they really trying to drive us to Crossbow Expertise this hard? An infused Hand Crossbow with Arcane Weapon slapped on it is pretty good, especially since you have shield proficiency. Get a VHuman and you've got that wrapped up in a pretty nice little package at level 2.

[Tetrasodium]

I like it, in general.

I feel like the shield proficiency is a bit weird, considering the crossbow focus the class otherwise seems to want. Are they really trying to drive us to Crossbow Expertise this hard? An infused Hand Crossbow with Arcane Weapon slapped on it is pretty good, especially since you have shield proficiency. Get a VHuman and you've got that wrapped up in a pretty nice little package at level 2.

Eberron has some new options for focus items, but a staff made of Kythrian Manchineel (+1 wth acid/poion spells/cantrips) is still a staff that you could pop someone with for d6/d8 damage.

[jaappleton]

I like it, in general.

I feel like the shield proficiency is a bit weird, considering the crossbow focus the class otherwise seems to want. Are they really trying to drive us to Crossbow Expertise this hard? An infused Hand Crossbow with Arcane Weapon slapped on it is pretty good, especially since you have shield proficiency. Get a VHuman and you've got that wrapped up in a pretty nice little package at level 2.

That right there is superior to using a Turret, I think. Especially since you can use SS with it.

Meaning the only reason to use a turret is for... the healing one?

And VHuman totally works, since you can make Goggles of Night, right?

[Pex]

At first read it appears more balanced than previous incarnations. You can buff a little, do decent damage, and have some utility.

[jaappleton]

I do want to mention one thing...

Forge Cleric is capable of buffing allies and such. And it did a good job of it.

Artificer smacks it around and then some. Artificer craps all over it.

EDIT: Anyone know a way to get Healing Word keying off Int? I don't.

[Damon_Tor]

That right there is superior to using a Turret, I think. Especially since you can use SS with it.

Meaning the only reason to use a turret is for... the healing one?

And VHuman totally works, since you can make Goggles of Night, right?

I don't see a reason to be an artillarist for a crossbow guy at all. The wand is totally wasted and your bonus action is spoken for, so the turrets aren't worth much. I guess you get the shield spell, which is nice. I feel like alchemist is a better choice for a crossbow guy. Get your homunculus to prebuff you with 2d6+Int mod THP 3x/day, and meanwhile you're making healing potions on the cheap, which is always good.

I just noticed that the artificer comes with con proficiency, which is pretty dope.

Something that seems unclear to me:


When you do so, youinvest it with one artificer cantrip of your choice—even one you don’t know—that has a casting time of 1 action. As an action, you can cause the magic wand to produce the cantrip, using your spellcasting ability modifier (other creatures are unable to use the wand’s magic)... When you reach 14th level in this class, you can invest the wand with two cantrips at the end of a long rest.

So when you use the wand's action (it has its own action, this is not the "cast a spell" action) at level 14+, does the wand then produce BOTH cantrips you've invested in it? I would expect to see something like "you can cause the magic want to produce one cantrip invested in it" or "You decide which invested cantrip it produces." or something. It's not clear how this functions.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I like it. It's a problem solver by nature, capable of seriously enhancing the party and carrying enough utility options to make a wizard blush. Any game that allows crafting is going to see some shenanigans from the alchemist in particular. Might as well forge beer hats for all the healing potions they'll be making.

[jaappleton]

If I take a background to get proficiency in Thieves Tools, does it benefit from the lv3 feature Tool Expertise? I'm inclined to say Yes, but I just want to be sure.

[Max_Killjoy]

If I take a background to get proficiency in Thieves Tools, does it benefit from the lv3 feature Tool Expertise? I'm inclined to say Yes, but I just want to be sure.

Doesn't Artificer itself give the Proficiency? What am I missing?

[Mikal]

It's definitely neat, the clause of going back to a space you've been in this turn is definitely the bigger half of the balancing factor (other half being needing a bonus action to do it).
.

On the other hand, it gives your bladesingers and such a reliable way to disengage with Booming Blade. Or yourself if you pick it up via multiclassing or a feat.


Wait a minute... Magic Weapon can be used to proc the Tempest Cleric's lightning damage abilities with a Polearm Master-compatible weapon without needing a specific magic item.

That might make for the basis of a neat build, especially if your DM will let you take the Tunnel Fighter fighting style and/or if you combine it with Booming Blade and War Caster...

Or, combine with the above for even better though admittedly at higher levels:
Zip in, attack in melee with Booming Blade and Arcane Weapon with a Greatsword or Maul via Cleric proficiency- 2d6+Str+1d6 Lightning+Booming Blade+GWM (potentially)- Bonus Action to leap back 15 feet, while pushing it 10 feet away. They then can decide to move and get boomed or stand still, letting you repeat the next round. As long as you can hit you lock them down.

You could either just go Artificer 2 and rely on your low level cleric slots to run your AW casts, or 3 or 4 Artificer and make wands upon wands upon wands of them.
Correction thanks to J: Need Artificer 4 for the boots, so Artificer 4, then Cleric the rest of the way.

Bonus points on being able to CD both your lightning and thunder damage from the spells, giving you 2d6+Str+6+10+BB damage. Not too terrible, though it does take level 10 to go fully online.

[jaappleton]

Doesn't Artificer itself give the Proficiency? What am I missing?

Right you are!

I'll shut up now.

[rbstr]

If I take a background to get proficiency in Thieves Tools, does it benefit from the lv3 feature Tool Expertise? I'm inclined to say Yes, but I just want to be sure.

You're already proficient with Thieves Tools via the class.

Gotta slow that hype roll and read, friendo.

[jaappleton]

On the other hand, it gives your arcane tricksters and such a reliable way to disengage with Booming Blade. Or yourself if you pick it up via multiclassing or a feat.



Or, combine with the above for even better though admittedly at higher levels:
Zip in, attack in melee with Booming Blade and Arcane Weapon with a Greatsword or Maul via Cleric proficiency- 2d6+Str+1d6 Lightning+Booming Blade+GWM (potentially)- Bonus Action to leap back 15 feet, while pushing it 10 feet away. They then can decide to move and get boomed or stand still, letting you repeat the next round. As long as you can hit you lock them down.

You could either just go Artificer 2 and rely on your low level cleric slots to run your AW casts, or 3 or 4 Artificer and make wands upon wands upon wands of them.

Bonus points on being able to CD both your lightning and thunder damage from the spells, giving you 2d6+Str+6+10+BB damage. Not too terrible.

Boots of the Winding Path requires Artificer 4, but that's a damn fun way to play!

[Mikal]

Boots of the Winding Path requires Artificer 4, but that's a damn fun way to play!

Dah, forgot they need 4. I'll rewrite my post.
It doesn't come online till level 10 then, but still, nothing like being a true god of thunder on the battlefield.

EDIT: Alternatively, ignore the infusion, and just take the distance damage from Arcane Weapon. I just liked the image of throwing someone 10 feet from you as I teleport back another 15 feet Raiden style.

Or alternatively/alternatively, start the build as Cleric, go to 6, then Artificer for 4 levels, then finish out with Cleric.

That way you get the spell slots for AW immediately? Though at that point it's essentially 2 levels for style points.

[Damon_Tor]

Magical Tinkering can be used to give a glow effect to your crossbow bolts. Shoot them at an enemy and light them up so they can't easily hide in the shadows. It's like a light cantrip, but it lasts indefinitely, so you can happily precast it on 3-5 bolts and keep them tucked away for whenever you want to use them. It looks like this ability was intended as a ribbon, but it has at least this one niche combat use I could think of.

[jaappleton]

Dah, forgot they need 4. I'll rewrite my post.
It doesn't come online till level 10 then, but still, nothing like being a true god of thunder on the battlefield.

EDIT: Alternatively, ignore the infusion, and just take the distance damage from Arcane Weapon. I just liked the image of throwing someone 10 feet from you as I teleport back another 15 feet Raiden style.

Or alternatively/alternatively, start the build as Cleric, go to 6, then Artificer for 4 levels, then finish out with Cleric.

That way you get the spell slots for AW immediately? Though at that point it's essentially 2 levels for style points.

Crossbow Expert that build.

[Mikal]

Crossbow Expert that build.

Alas, Booming Blade is a melee weapon cantrip

EDIT: BUT! Nothing stopping you from making a cleric archer or crossbow user with CE like you mentioned to do a "shoot and scoot" build. Though you can't use the boots and the *off-hand* property of a hand crossbow on the same round since they're both Bonus Actions.

So if you hit with both ranged attacks, you can move them back what, 20 feet and yourself 15? Force them to dash if they want to even think about closing in with you.

[Damon_Tor]

Like the infusions of the old artificer, it reamains unclear who (if anyone?) is supposed to concentrate on the spells cast via the Spell-Storing item.

[Mikal]

Like the infusions of the old artificer, it reamains unclear who (if anyone?) is supposed to concentrate on the spells cast via the Spell-Storing item.

I'd say the user of the item.

"With the object in hand, a creature can take an action to produce the spell’s effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier"

The wielder produces the effect (and thus takes concentration). The only thing that comes from the creator is their ability modifier and the spell itself.

[jaappleton]

Alas, Booming Blade is a melee weapon cantrip

EDIT: BUT! Nothing stopping you from making a cleric archer or crossbow user with CE like you mentioned to do a "shoot and scoot" build. Though you can't use the boots and the *off-hand* property of a hand crossbow on the same round since they're both Bonus Actions.

So if you hit with both ranged attacks, you can move them back what, 20 feet and yourself 15? Force them to dash if they want to even think about closing in with you.

It becomes like Eldritch Blast with Repelling Blast. You keep knocking them back and keeping them away from you. Like Repelling Blast it also provides no saving throw, meaning you can break grapples enemies have on your allies. So no need for the boots at all, and you can make the bonus action attack.

[Mikal]

It becomes like Eldritch Blast with Repelling Blast. You keep knocking them back and keeping them away from you. Like Repelling Blast it also provides no saving throw, meaning you can break grapples enemies have on your allies.

So Sharpshooter as well, to ignore the cover bonus potentially from the grappled ally. That's how I rule it anyway. Of course you want SS regardless for the extra damage potential.

Might be better just to use a longbow and ignore CE since you'll need 3 feats before you can start using ASIs (Cantrip granting feat for BB, CE, SS)

[jaappleton]

So Sharpshooter as well, to ignore the cover bonus potentially from the grappled ally. That's how I rule it anyway. Of course you want SS regardless for the extra damage potential.

Might be better just to use a longbow and ignore CE since you'll need 3 feats before you can start using ASIs (Cantrip granting feat for BB, CE, SS)

My build totally ignores BB. Just CE and SS, and you can go for VHuman because you can generate Goggles of Night to mitigate Darkvision if you so choose. Or instead use another Infusion and just deal with your plain eyesight.

[Damon_Tor]

I'd say the user of the item.

"With the object in hand, a creature can take an action to produce the spell’s effect from it, using your spellcasting ability modifier"

The wielder produces the effect (and thus takes concentration). The only thing that comes from the creator is their ability modifier and the spell itself.

"Producing the effect" is not the same wording as "casting the spell". The word "cast" is only used in the feature to describe what sort of spell can be selected, the actions taken by neither of the parties in question are described as "casting" and so by a strict application of RAW no concentration would need to occur. What's not clear is what's intended by this. Did they deliberately choose not to use the word "cast"? I mean, it's a level 18 feature and it's limited to level 1 and 2 spells. Nothing there is going to break anybody's game, so I can see where they might be coming from.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Magical tinkering has alot of potential for creative play. Cheep recordings, objects holding images and text, Throw a rock and people hear thunder or other environmental sounds.

combine this with maybe warlock invocations (the fun utility ones) and some choice feats... You can do some fun shenanigans.

Maybe record the evil mayor's schemes of ruining the village for profit?

Shoot out ammunition with instructions embedded? sure i guess message is a spell. but what if you needed to deliver a message from really far away? sharpshooter + magical tinkering to shoot out an arrow or bolt. idk potential use.

someone probably will make use of it.

[jaappleton]

Its cheese as hell. It is.

But a 12th level Artificer can make a Headband of Intellect. You if you're starting at lv12 or higher, you can just have that, and focus your ASIs elsewhere. As I said, its cheesy as hell, but... Totally possible.

[Chunkosaurus]

I see what you're saying.

But at the same time, I loved having something to look forward to on X day. "Hey, we're getting something new today, sweet!"

Now its kinda just... whenever. And I understand that's much better for the team, on their end. I get that. But at the same time, I fear this is going to be used as something of an excuse. "Hey, we had a convention, so nothing this month." Maybe that's just the cynic in me.

It definitely feels like they have the brakes hard on content for the past year, so I'm with you on that

[Damon_Tor]

Its cheese as hell. It is.

But a 12th level Artificer can make a Headband of Intellect. You if you're starting at lv12 or higher, you can just have that, and focus your ASIs elsewhere. As I said, its cheesy as hell, but... Totally possible.

Don't think there's another class that gets "you have a 19 in your primary stat" as a class feature. It's... an interesting choice.

[Anderlith]

I love the ideas going on with this new Artificer.
I’m glad they canned the Cannon & embraced Wandslinging instead.
My hope is that they add a Grenadier & a “Battle Smith” subclass.

I also hope that each subclass gets its own supportive homunculus that helps ground the subclass in its themes. The Alchemist gets a cauldron that helps buff & support, the blaster gets turrets, etc. The battle Smith could get the 3.5 robodog to help him in battle or maybe a little shieldsquire, the grenadier could get a multihanded bomb thrower or some kind of catapult?

Also, Infusions should very much stay as magic items/gadgets like the multitouch & generalized buff enchants. They should stay away from the Pathfinder style “class ability a la carte” stuff.

It does need cleaned up, the extra Attack is only useful for melee artificers & the alchemist & Artillerist are both better served doing something else than melee. Not sure what to replace it with except a spell recovery option or a short rest Infusion swap ability

[ProsecutorGodot]

If I take a background to get proficiency in Thieves Tools, does it benefit from the lv3 feature Tool Expertise? I'm inclined to say Yes, but I just want to be sure.

They get starting proficiency with Tinker's Tools and Thieves' Tools.

As for the "Tools Expertise" feature, I'd say you would have expertise because it doesn't specify "Artisan's Tools", which is its own category, not including: Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit, Gaming Sets, Herbalism Kit, Musical Instruments, Navigator's Tools, Poisoner's Kit, Thieves' Tools.

Take the ones from that extended list with "Tools" in there name (their description does describe them as tools, whereas a herbalism kit is not, for example) and they should count for expertise.

This is a bit of a strict reading, because I'm personally under the impression that it's meant to apply to the broad Tools category. I think the intention is for Tools and Kits to benefit.

[gbg42]

I'm inclined to read Tool Expertise as any toolkit (including thieves tools and herbalism kit) that you have proficiency in, you now have expertise. It is ambiguously worded though, because if they specify artisans tools, that doesn't include thieves tools which feels wrong. Otoh, covering that whole table with the feature feels weird cause really? And artificer using a three dragon ante set?

[Garfunion]

Dragon Shards + Magical Tinkering
When you use your Magical Tinkering feature with a dragon shard (worth 5gp) embedded in the object, the effect you apply to the object does not go against the number of effects you can maintain. You may also allow a word or a touch to turn off/on the effect.

Dragon Shards + Replicate Magic Item Infusion
When you use your Infusion feature to replicate a magic item, with a dragon shard (worth an amount of gold equal to half the real magic item cost) embedded in the item, the Infusion you apply to the object does not go against the number of Infusions you can maintain.

If the Dragon Shard becomes broken of removed from the item the effect/Infusion is dispelled.

[Vorpalchicken]

Seems a little weak but that's better than overpowered.

[Foxhound438]

I like it, in general.

I feel like the shield proficiency is a bit weird, considering the crossbow focus the class otherwise seems to want. Are they really trying to drive us to Crossbow Expertise this hard? An infused Hand Crossbow with Arcane Weapon slapped on it is pretty good, especially since you have shield proficiency. Get a VHuman and you've got that wrapped up in a pretty nice little package at level 2.

shield proficiency on a hand crossbow build actually still doesn't work. CBE lets you ignore the loading property, which limits your attacks per turn, but it does nothing about the ammunition property which requires a free hand regardless.


Its cheese as hell. It is.

But a 12th level Artificer can make a Headband of Intellect. You if you're starting at lv12 or higher, you can just have that, and focus your ASIs elsewhere. As I said, its cheesy as hell, but... Totally possible.

I'm personally more interested in the prospect of giving yourself gauntlets of ogre strength and suddenly becoming a full blown melee powerhouse with a freshly picked up polearm mastery. In this case you even get to upgrade to a belt of hill giant strength at 16th.


I love the ideas going on with this new Artificer.
I’m glad they canned the Cannon & embraced Wandslinging instead.
My hope is that they add a Grenadier & a “Battle Smith” subclass.
*snip*
It does need cleaned up, the extra Attack is only useful for melee artificers & the alchemist & Artillerist are both better served doing something else than melee. Not sure what to replace it with except a spell recovery option or a short rest Infusion swap ability

as a big fan of Pathfinder's grenade wielding alchemists, I too would like to see a grenadier, though I'm not entirely sure how they'd balance it with having extra attack. Maybe they have it as like a special action that costs a spell slot or something? maybe their subclass "pet" is a grenade generator that requires your bonus action to make a grenade that you can then throw as part of your attacks?

The extra attack does work on ranged weapons (to include your returning thrown weapon), so I'm not entirely sure where you're getting the only useful for melee idea.

[Tetrasodium]

It does need cleaned up, the extra Attack is only useful for melee artificers & the alchemist & Artillerist are both better served doing something else than melee. Not sure what to replace it with except a spell recovery option or a short rest Infusion swap ability

Look at the L18 capstone spell storing item letting you infuse a first or second level spell from the artificer spell list (prepped or not) during a long rest, then you or someone else can use it as an action to cast that spell using your spellcasting mod for the DC a number of times equal to your int mod*2. The wizard spell mastery is almost the same but they don't have a limit on number of times to cast it. Coupled with the fact that artificer is a half caster who will have the equivalent spell slots of a level 8 wizard at artificer 20, having the ability to drop a bunch of first or second level spells is not really a big deal but keeps it from feeling like a 1/3 caster who gets spells too late to care in many cases. shift that capstone to tier 1/early tier2 levels& allow the L10 right cantrip for the job ability to switch the spell on that too. It would clear up a lot and give the artificer a definite casting niche of it's own alongside the archtype abilities themselves (many of which still need work)

[Anderlith]

I'm inclined to read Tool Expertise as any toolkit (including thieves tools and herbalism kit) that you have proficiency in, you now have expertise. It is ambiguously worded though, because if they specify artisans tools, that doesn't include thieves tools which feels wrong. Otoh, covering that whole table with the feature feels weird cause really? And artificer using a three dragon ante set?

Tarot Artificer sounds cool

[Tetrasodium]

I'm personally more interested in the prospect of giving yourself gauntlets of ogre strength and suddenly becoming a full blown melee powerhouse with a freshly picked up polearm mastery. In this case you even get to upgrade to a belt of hill giant strength at 16th.


That's a pretty limited benefit, 19 strength & PAM at 12 without all the martial class toys isn't going to make anyone "a full blown melee powerhouse"... but gauntlets of ogre power means that you can take heavy armor prof & wear it without penalty even though your strength was like 8-10 on a rather MAD class up until then :D

[Anderlith]

snip
It works on throwing weapons & melee weapons. Crossbows, the Artificer’s only ranged weapon option needs a feat to be able to capitalize on extra attacks

[Rukelnikov]

That right there is superior to using a Turret, I think. Especially since you can use SS with it.

Meaning the only reason to use a turret is for... the healing one?

And VHuman totally works, since you can make Goggles of Night, right?

Somewhat, XBE does slightly better (~3 dpr) than Shortbow+Turrets from lvl 3 to 11, at the cost of commiting 1 feat, and using your action to attack every turn. From lvl 12 onwards, taking bracers of archery infusion Longbow+Turrets does slightly better than XBE (~3 dpr), from 14 onwards notably better (~12 dpr)

Yeah, lower levels are generally preferable since that's where the most gaming is done, however you are commiting 1 feat and locking yourself into spending concentration in arcane armament and taking the attack action every turn to do slightly better damage, and even then, by tier 3 you will be switching to a bow anyways.

If you wanna lock yourself into that playstile, then going fighter or ranger is a much better option.

[Tetrasodium]

Somewhat, XBE does slightly better (~3 dpr) than Shortbow+Turrets from lvl 3 to 11, at the cost of commiting 1 feat, and using your action to attack every turn. From lvl 12 onwards, taking bracers of archery infusion Longbow+Turrets does slightly better than XBE (~3 dpr), from 14 onwards notably better (~12 dpr)

Yeah, lower levels are generally preferable since that's where the most gaming is done, however you are commiting 1 feat and locking yourself into spending concentration in arcane armament and taking the attack action every turn to do slightly better damage, and even then, by tier 3 you will be switching to a bow anyways.

If you wanna lock yourself into that playstile, then going fighter or ranger is a much better option.

you are leaving out an option to compare against... cantrips Firebolt, ray of frost, thorn whip, poison spray. Artificer has an awful lot of int based abilities making the idea of being a poor melee/archer pretty deep into MAD.

[Man_Over_Game]

Interesting. Looks like it's something like this:

Medium armored class, half casting, with casting focused on support/utility spells. Can make a limited number of permanent items that you or your friends can use. Is really good with tools, gains an enhanced version of Prestidigitation, and is extremely adaptable.

Subclasses are divided as either a healing-oriented support with a summon (that's also specialized in support), or an offensive explosives expert.

It looks pretty ok. I'd have liked it if they omitted anything generic for the craftable items (so no generic +1 armor and +1 weapons, just cool stuff), and the list of craftable items is pretty bare at the moment, but I'd like to see where they go with it.

[Foxhound438]

It works on throwing weapons & melee weapons. Crossbows, the Artificer’s only ranged weapon option needs a feat to be able to capitalize on extra attacks

you also get shortbows, since those are simple weapons. High elves also get longbows.

[jaappleton]

you also get shortbows, since those are simple weapons. High elves also get longbows.

Githyanki get Swords.

.......They don’t have much else to add to this honestly, but they get swords.

Hobgoblin would be a good choice. Proficiency in any martial weapon and +2 Con, +1 Int. Saving Face is also a good feature with a good size party.

[Rukelnikov]

you are leaving out an option to compare against... cantrips Firebolt, ray of frost, thorn whip, poison spray. Artificer has an awful lot of int based abilities making the idea of being a poor melee/archer pretty deep into MAD.

I compared it first against one using firebolt, that one is below since it can't benefit from Arcane Armament. They don't have to commit concentration, or infusions or feats, and they can raise Int which will help with spells also. But felt that there were far too many variables to take into account, and doing a proper comparison would lead to a small essay.

[Anderlith]

Has anyone made a color guide to Artificer yet?

I want to know how strong a Rock Gnome mounted on a turret is

[Rukelnikov]

Has anyone made a color guide to Artificer yet?

I want to know how strong a Rock Gnome mounted on a turret is

Hey this is good! You can stand on your own turret giving yourself 15 ft extra movement each turn!

[ProsecutorGodot]

Hey this is good! You can stand on your own turret giving yourself 15 ft extra movement each turn!

The object occupies a space and you can't share your space with something. Normally this only applies to creatures, however, this magical object is specified as being medium and occupying its own space.

I could see it being argued one way or another, but I personally don't think you'd actively be able to ride on it.

[Anderlith]

The object occupies a space and you can't share your space with something. Normally this only applies to creatures, however, this magical object is specified as being medium and occupying its own space.

I could see it being argued one way or another, but I personally don't think you'd actively be able to ride on it.

Okay, wait until you have two of them & ride in a chariot pulled by them (yes I know it’s only 15ft movespeed)

[Makorel]

How do the +1's on these infusions work?

Enhanced Weapon, Radiant Weapon and Returning Weapon all add +1. Enhanced Weapon Upgrades to +2 at 12th level. That's +4 to a weapon.

Isn't there a rule about pluses not exceeding +3? Would these pluses work on an already magic weapon, like say a +1 sword? If so do they cap at +3 or would they stack on top?

[Lockwolfe]

With bracers of archery, they can basically have a +4 longbow at level 12. With a dip into fighter for the archery fighting style, this makes them surprisingly good archers.