Spellbook questions

[BaconAwesome]

I have a very creative player who is testing the boundaries on spellbooks. I'm not really opposed - I like creativity, but haven't really thought out the game balance or mythology issues, so I'd love to hear people's opinions.

Q1: Can the player use Keen Mind to prepare spells that are in her character's memory, or cast rituals, without the physical spellbook, and can she make a physical copy without referring g to her spellbook? My ruling: Sure, makes sense.

Q2: The character got several minutes to look at someone else's spellbook. If she does it within 30 days, does Keen Mind let her copy the spells into her book as if she still had access to it? My Ruling: I was less excited about this one, but allowed it.

Q3: Can the character use Minor Illusion to cause a perfect copy of a given page of the book to appear, allowing another character to copy a spell to HIS book even if she hasn't done so yet. My Ruling: spellbook are finicky enough that it would be a high DC check (I haven't decided what kind) to avoid introducing small errors that would prevent copying, even though she has a perfect memory of the page.

Q4: What about a non-magical copy? If I find a kenku with expertise in forgery and calligraphy tools and hire her to make a perfect copy of a spellbook, can I copy a spell out of the duplicate copy? My Ruling: Yes, but a skill check for each spell, and it costs as much as duplicating your own spellbook to get inks in the right colors.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[PhoenixPhyre]

I have a very creative player who is testing the boundaries on spellbooks. I'm not really opposed - I like creativity, but haven't really thought out the game balance or mythology issues, so I'd love to hear people's opinions.

Q1: Can the player use Keen Mind to prepare spells that are in her character's memory, or cast rituals, without the physical spellbook, and can she make a physical copy without referring g to her spellbook? My ruling: Sure, makes sense.

Q2: The character got several minutes to look at someone else's spellbook. If she does it within 30 days, does Keen Mind let her copy the spells into her book as if she still had access to it? My Ruling: I was less excited about this one, but allowed it.

Q3: Can the character use Minor Illusion to cause a perfect copy of a given page of the book to appear, allowing another character to copy a spell to HIS book even if she hasn't done so yet. My Ruling: spellbook are finicky enough that it would be a high DC check (I haven't decided what kind) to avoid introducing small errors that would prevent copying, even though she has a perfect memory of the page.

Q4: What about a non-magical copy? If I find a kenku with expertise in forgery and calligraphy tools and hire her to make a perfect copy of a spellbook, can I copy a spell out of the duplicate copy? My Ruling: Yes, but a skill check for each spell, and it costs as much as duplicating your own spellbook to get inks in the right colors.

Thoughts? Thanks!

Q1--maybe.

Q2-4: no. For one thing, it's not a matter of seeing it, it's a matter of decyphering it and studying it over time. Each wizard writes them in their own code-like notation.

[Man_Over_Game]

Well, it's not JUST a picture, though. If it was, there'd be no reason for there to be a cost to transcribe spells from the ink needed.

But there is, which implies that the ink (or the ritual) of saving the spell is just as important as the things actually being recorded.

Additionally, a spellbook is almost like...a collection of notes on how to cast a spell. Someone with a nearly perfect memory would definitely have different "notes" (whatever that means to someone with impeccable memory) than mundane people. In fact, I'd say that someone with Keen Mind would have no idea how to transcribe something from their memories for someone without Keen Mind to understand.

Personally, bullet 1 and 2 seem mostly fine as a reward for an underused feat, but that's already pushing the boundaries (as the player isn't addressing the concern with the ink/ritual/cost as it is).

[Unoriginal]

Q 1 to 4: No.

Keen Mind is not a substitute for a spellbook, and an illusiory version of the spellbook, or one done with mundane ink and paper, would be utterly useless for the purpose of memorizing spells.

To memorize spells, you need a velum spellbook with text written in rare and expensive inks, or a similarly special medium. And if you want to recopy spells in a way that is memorizable, you need the velum book and inks, as well as having either a scroll, the spell already memorized, access to your personal spellbook or to reinvent the spell nearly from scratch using another person's book as basis and then retranscribe it in a manner that works for you (and only for you).

A spell is more than a bunch of lines in a book. The same way that it is more than a bunch of sounds and gestures.

A Kenku couldn't cast Vicious Mockery by mimicking someone they heard cast it, even if the components are vocal only. So why would making a mental, illusory or mundane copy of a spellbook let you memorize spells.

[Callak_Remier]

Yeah i wouldn't allow any of that.