Mines of Madness, The Dramatic Question

[Bjarkmundur]

I just started running a new game with a full group of first-timers. The idea was to go through the first two levels teaching everyone the mechanics and then diving head first into the Mines of Madness.

As we play all the players are putting a lot of thought into their character arch, backstory, goals and drive, which is awesome. As we get closer to the Mines my feeling of dread grows steadily . They've spent so much time and effort to identify with their characters and their goals that I'm worried about putting them through a character grinder module like Mines of Madness. I don't want to be the guy that teaches them "don't waste your breath of creating good characters, the DMs gonna kill them anyways.

Can you help me to make the Mines less lethal and more dramatic and suspenseful, or recommend to me another dungeon-delve module to run?

[Bjarkmundur]

I can also just dish out some sort of a "rewind time" magic item with charges, which creates a resource to be managed. I have a pretty good story to make that happen. That allows the players to make mistakes and laugh when a character gets turned into coins, without it pouring **** over all their hard work.

I just need it to have the appropriate amount of charges to negate the most unfair mechanics of the mine in a way that doesn't simply remove all suspense from the adventure.

I'm also more used to the idea that when a party fails there are consequences, but usually it's in such a way that the story still continues, it just takes a different route.

[Unoriginal]

What level are the PCs?

[Bjarkmundur]

They're at level 2 right now. It's not much, but they've spent so much time on them, expecting them to survive and finish their main backstory goals.

They have pretty interesting hooks built into their characters back stories. One is after a vampire lord, one is going against the King to restore the old kingdom with its rightful ruler, one is going after a demon Prince. So many good stories for me to make into adventures later on. Would be a shame to have them die at level 5 because they entered a **** house, or went the wrong way through a door, or walked into a room that cast reverse gravity without any warning. I'd much rather they died in a more epic manner, as a result of their decisions, not "because the module hates player character."

But Mines is still such a good module, and exactly what I need right now. I don't have the time to create my own campaign until the summer, so modules is my only option right now.

[Unoriginal]

How about you switch to Lost Mines of Phandelver for now, and then go to Mines of Madness when they're lvl 4 or 5?

Or maybe the Sunless Citadel or Forge of Fury?

[Yora]

You can always reduce the number of enemies. That helps a lot.

Also show that retreat from difficult fights is possible. Which can perhaps be best done by showing enemies running away when they are losing badly.

[Bjarkmundur]

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll see if I can swap out modules.

Mines of Madness isn't deadly in a CR-kind of way, but more in a Tomb of Horrors kind of way.

[Bjarkmundur]

I thought of a much stupider solution

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582358-Broken-Rewind-Time-Magic-Item

[loki_ragnarock]

I thought of a much stupider solution

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582358-Broken-Rewind-Time-Magic-Item

Given you're playing with new people who want their characters to live, giving them an opportunity to experiment and see what sorts of things get them killed without having them make new characters has merit.


But instead of a wand, take a page from Nioh; the dungeon has a number of shrines that you can attune to, a sort of pseudo phylactery. When you die, you reincarnate immediately next to the shrine, equipment and body intact, with all enemies and traps reset. Saving stones, if you will.

This allows you to:
Avoid the person with the wand falling into lava and leaving everyone boned.
Makes it a purely localized effect that has no bearing on later times or areas in the game once they've gotten a little more used to things.
Insulates them from permadeath as a consequence for toddling down the wrong hallway.
Gives them an opportunity to practice effective tactics with their recently hard won knowledge of what doesn't work.

It might lead to some occasional Russian Doll hilarity, but that's funny to me.

For building tension, put the shrines further and further away; maybe starting every couple of rooms, but then becoming one per dungeon level. Eventually, the next shrine they find is destroyed; something has taken the time to eliminate all of (or most of) the shrines, which should cause them some small discomfort. They don't have to all be eliminated; maybe there's one or two that are hidden, or otherwise difficult to access, just before an area you expect to just thrash them. Then the training wheels come off; at some point in the dungeon, it's made clear to them that the pseudo phylacteries are no longer working (magic ritual, systematic destruction by an organized opponent, a really bad whoopsies, etc.) and they're playing for keeps.


Just making it a dungeon feature solves a lot of your problems, and this approach turns death from a bummer to a laugh... and eventually a bummer again.

[Bjarkmundur]

That's a perfect solution! I'll read up on that!
What was the given in-game reason for these checkpoints?

[loki_ragnarock]

The in game reason was something to the effect that you are possessed by a guardian spirit that whisks you away to the last shrine you prayed at when you die, sans xp. The guardian spirit guards the pile of xp you leave behind. I'd recommend against the pile of xp thing - dying in a death trap and just award xp once they get to the next savestone/spiritshrine/temporalphylactery.


Mechanically, Nioh is difficult and occasionally unfair, so having a mid level save point keeps people from punching through their monitor. Mines of Madness seems like it might have a similar vibe.