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JoeJ
2019-03-02, 02:23 PM
If you were doing arena combat with a 10th level character, what build would be most likely to win? Assume the following rules:

1) Your character will fight another character from this thread, one on one. You don't know ahead of time which other character will be your opponent.

2) Combat will take place in an oval room made of dressed stone, 150 feet long by 75 feet wide, with a 50 foot ceiling and a packed dirt floor. Combatants will enter through large wooden doors at opposite ends, and the fight lasts until one of them dies, is incapacitated, or flees. (A spell such as Banishment, that only sends the target away for a short period of time, does not end the fight, even though the target is incapacitated while banished.)

3) All builds must be AL legal, with no abilities or gear that require the character to have played through any specific adventure or set of adventures, or that require special DM permission to obtain. You have unlimited funds to buy equipment, but no magic items may be purchased and you can only take in what you can carry. Non-magical mounts listed on page 157 of the PHB are allowed, but only as mounts, not pack animals. Vehicles and hired mercenaries are not allowed.

4) Nobody is surprised. Initiative is rolled as soon as both combatants enter the arena.

5) No spells can be cast before entering the arena, although you can begin with a familiar and/or steed already summoned.

6) Because this is just a white room thought experiment, it's perfectly fine to use a build that would not be practical for general dungeoneering.

Naanomi
2019-03-02, 04:53 PM
What counts as fleeing? Can I burrow deep under the arena or temporarily teleport away and still be ‘in the fight’ if I intend to come back?

What about magically compelling people to surrender or flee?

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 05:01 PM
What counts as fleeing? Can I burrow deep under the arena or temporarily teleport away and still be ‘in the fight’ if I intend to come back?

What about magically compelling people to surrender or flee?

Burrow deep, yes. Your opponent could potentially follow you. Teleporting away is fleeing.

Magically compelling doesn't count if the spell just lets you give a single order and then it's done. Dominating counts.

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 05:15 PM
What about spells like Mage Armor? Long lasting no concentration?

Naanomi
2019-03-02, 05:25 PM
Burrow deep, yes. Your opponent could potentially follow you. Teleporting away is fleeing.

Magically compelling doesn't count if the spell just lets you give a single order and then it's done. Dominating counts.
How far down is the ground considered soft dirt? Is it eventually hard stone or groundwater? Similarly, how thick are the stone walls/ceiling?

LudicSavant
2019-03-02, 05:29 PM
5) No spells can be cast before entering the arena, although you can begin with a familiar and/or steed already summoned.

How come you can cast Find Familiar, Find Steed, or Phantom Steed before the entering the arena, but not other long-lasting spells?

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 05:34 PM
What about spells like Mage Armor? Long lasting no concentration?

Hmmm... I want to be fair to both spellcasters and non-spellcasters. Fighters will probably be wearing armor, so maybe, you can have Mage Armor active (and Arcane Ward if you have that feature), but you can't have recovered the spell slot. Does that sound reasonable?


How far down is the ground considered soft dirt? Is it eventually hard stone or groundwater? Similarly, how thick are the stone walls/ceiling?

The ground is hard packed dirt, not soft. How far down would you want to burrow? And what difference does it make how thick the walls and ceiling are? I'll say they're not thick enough to hide inside without fleeing the arena.

No brains
2019-03-02, 05:37 PM
Are healing potions/ holy water considered magic items? Holy water is an important distinction to make because it is called out as the component for a few spells. Healing potions technically do not require magic to make, according to XGtE.

LudicSavant
2019-03-02, 05:38 PM
Hmmm... I want to be fair to both spellcasters and non-spellcasters. Fighters will probably be wearing armor, so maybe, you can have Mage Armor active (and Arcane Ward if you have that feature), but you can't have recovered the spell slot. Does that sound reasonable?

Stuff like Contingency can be cast a week in advance. Why on earth wouldn't you be able to cast it before entering the arena, and recover the spell slot?

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 05:44 PM
Are healing potions/ holy water considered magic items? Holy water is an important distinction to make because it is called out as the component for a few spells. Healing potions technically do not require magic to make, according to XGtE.

Holy water is not magical. The PHB describes potions of healing as magical, though. In AL can you start a new character with as many potions of healing as you can afford?


If your goal is to be fair:

If something can be maintained essentially in perpetuity, it is not fair to restrict it.

Which would apply to Find Steed, but not Phantom Steed, or even Mage Armor. Which perpetual spells are you specifically looking at?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 05:46 PM
Stuff like Contingency can be cast a week in advance. Why on earth wouldn't you be able to cast it before entering the arena, and recover the spell slot?

Because its a 6th lvl spell and you are lvl 10


Hmmm... I want to be fair to both spellcasters and non-spellcasters. Fighters will probably be wearing armor, so maybe, you can have Mage Armor active (and Arcane Ward if you have that feature), but you can't have recovered the spell slot. Does that sound reasonable?

Perfect

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 05:47 PM
Stuff like Contingency can be cast a week in advance. Why on earth wouldn't you be able to cast it before entering the arena, and recover the spell slot?

How does a 10th level character cast Contingency?

edit: shadow monked.

LudicSavant
2019-03-02, 05:50 PM
How does a 10th level character cast Contingency?

edit: shadow monked.

Kind of missing the point, especially since I said stuff like Contingency. There are lots of long duration spells, and any of them could serve as an example to illustrate the point.

For example, Water Breathing tends to be up in perpetuity as soon as a Wizard gets it, since it's a 24-hour duration ritual.

You have made a rule which makes arbitrary exceptions for familiars and steeds, but prevents things that are even easier to maintain in perpetuity.

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 05:51 PM
Kinda missing the point. I could have used any long duration spell as an example.

For example, Water Breathing tends to be up in perpetuity as soon as a Wizard gets it, since it's a 24-hour duration ritual. Likewise, a Warlock can use 24-hour Hexes.

None of those are battle changing as Contingency, and in a specific scenario like this, specific is relevant.

You can't Glyph of Warding cheese for instance, but you can wear Mage Armor.

LudicSavant
2019-03-02, 05:56 PM
None of those are battle changing as Contingency

I can think of a few that are that battle changing, not the least of which being the use of Animate Dead for Necromancer Wizards.

CTurbo
2019-03-02, 06:10 PM
This is a fun exercise, but almost any build presented could have a different build made to counter it.

Gnome would be strong to help prevent failing a save or die spell.
Fighter 2 would be strong for action surge.
Diviner 2 would be strong for Portent.
Gloom Stalker 3 would be strong for it's boosted first round.

LudicSavant
2019-03-02, 06:12 PM
5) No spells can be cast before entering the arena, although you can begin with a familiar and/or steed already summoned.


Hmmm... I want to be fair to both spellcasters and non-spellcasters. Fighters will probably be wearing armor, so maybe, you can have Mage Armor active (and Arcane Ward if you have that feature), but you can't have recovered the spell slot. Does that sound reasonable?

Rule #5 is not fair to both spellcasters and non-spellcasters, because it makes an arbitrary distinction of "spells" rather than making it a question of ease of maintenance. For example, if your goal is fairness, it would not be fair if a Devotion Paladin can use their 1 minute buff before entering the arena (due to it not being a spell) while a Warlock would be prevented from using a 24-hour buff.

Edit:

Which would apply to Find Steed, but not Phantom Steed, or even Mage Armor. Which perpetual spells are you specifically looking at?

What are you talking about? Of course stuff like Mage Armor can be maintained in perpetuity. Our Armor of Shadows Abjurer has that thing on even while they sleep. The only way to get it off them is to dispel it.

sithlordnergal
2019-03-02, 06:29 PM
Hmmm, you may wish to remove the burrowing ability, that will give one certain class a bit of an advantage. But with it, I'd go:

Race: Variant Human

Class: Moon Druid


Str: 8

Dex: 14

Con: 16

Int: 8

Wis: 20

Cha: 10


Main strategy here is to try and go before your opponent with the Alert feat. As soon as you can, cast a 3rd or 4th level Moon Beam, turn into an Earth Elemental, and sink underground. The ground is non-magical unworked earth and stone, enough to burrow into. Remain this way, using tremorsense to find the location of your target and moving Moon Beam onto them until it runs out, your opponent dies, or your spell is dispelled.

If Moon Beam ends early or they survive the entire duration, you may reappear and beat the opponent as an Earth Elemental. Since there are no magical weapons allowed, your form will resist normal martial damage.

Upon losing your form, cast Conjure Animal to summon 8 cr 1/4 beasts to aid you in the fight. Make sure to keep Dispell Magic just in can though, as you can use it to remove any spell buffs.

If you need a large boost to HP, use Polymorph to turn yourself into a Gigantasarus. It is an AL legal CR 10 beast. It is Gargantuan, which with 5e rules means it is around 20 by 20 feet and fits in the 50ft high room.

Cloud of Fog can shut down spell casters, allowing you to safely attack them from a distance with Thorn Whip, since it does not require you to see the target. To quote the spell description, "You create a long, vine-like whip covered in thorns that lashes out at your command toward a creature in range.", sight is not needed to target the opponent. And due to how sight rules work, you roll normally.

EDIT: If the turtle under ground strategy is boring/unusable, turn into a Fire or Water Elemental, depending on if you are facing someone with a high strength or not, and attempt to Drown or out damage them. Personally I would go for Fire Elemental, cause while the drowning will happen sooner, the opponent has more opportunities to escape the drowning. Where as with Fire Elemental, you do 1d10 damage every time you are hit with a melee attack, they can be set on fire for another d10 fire damage at the start of every turn, and it takes a full action to douse the flames.

Damon_Tor
2019-03-02, 06:43 PM
If you were doing arena combat with a 10th level character, what build would be most likely to win?

I'd put my money on a paladin being the best all-around in most circumstances. High AC and top tier saves, self-healing, the only class that can let his mount act independently (read: extra attacks) with relatively low risk of the DM going "horse is scarred, do a barrel roll" and they have great burst damage. Mix with Hexblade for MAD reduction and moar smite. I'd probably go paladin 6/warlock 4.

But your setup seems tailor-made to make circle of the moon druids win given the particulars of the arena, and are especially brutal against heavy armor guys.

Cast Heat Metal on his armor using a level 5 spell slot (action)
Turn into an Earth Elemental and go underground (bonus action, move)
Wait until he cooks to death inside his armor (no saves, 5d8 damage per round for 10 rounds, basically nothing they can do about this but die horribly)


Anyone not wearing metal isn't as vulnerable, but you still have the problem of the arena strongly favoring the earthglide tactic: you can just pop out of the ground, multi-attack, then go back in with near-complete safety. The other guy will have to resort to readied actions, which is horribly inefficient. A PC who can fly and get off the ground can stalemate you I guess, but races with flight aren't AL legal and class/spell based flight won't last 5 hours, so they've got to come down eventually. If you're not casting Heat Metal to auto-defeat a heavy armor guy you can cast some other concentration spell. Conjure Elemental might make the most sense, either another earth elemental who can use the exact same tactics as you, or maybe an air elemental to take the the fight to someone who is flying around instead of standing on the ground letting you pummel them. Flaming sphere is also good auto-damage while you're underground, but the second elemental is simpler.

Damon_Tor
2019-03-02, 06:47 PM
Ninja'd on the moon druid.

sithlordnergal
2019-03-02, 06:52 PM
Rule #5 is not fair to both spellcasters and non-spellcasters, because it makes an arbitrary distinction of "spells" rather than making it a question of ease of maintenance. For example, if your goal is fairness, it would not be fair if a Devotion Paladin can use their 1 minute buff before entering the arena (due to it not being a spell) while a Warlock would be prevented from using a 24-hour buff.


How about it is changes to "spells that do not have an instantaneous duration cannot be pre cast with the exception of Mage Armor", and you cannot bring in any creature outside of a mount or a familiar.

Because if you do not have that limitation, then Necromancers, and any caster that decided to use Planar Binding on two Elementals they summoned the day before will almost always win simply because you could easily bring in 10 skeleton archers by spending two 5th level slots right before you take a long rest the day before the battle.

Which will give you 10 decent allies you can command and equip with Long Bows, and your full slots with the exception of a single Mage Armor

sithlordnergal
2019-03-02, 06:54 PM
Ninja'd on the moon druid.

Ohh, I had forgotten about Heat Metal on those in heavy armor. Heat Metal + Fire Elemental = Cooked Paladin x3

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 06:55 PM
Would it be a fairer challenge if burrowing is not allowed? Or maybe allowed with some limitations?

sithlordnergal
2019-03-02, 06:58 PM
It would be, all you need to really do is say "magical worked stone". It shuts down burrowing and moon druid shenanigans without banning any builds. The moon druid won't be a perfect tank by hiding underground, but they have other options.

Son of A Lich!
2019-03-02, 06:59 PM
Pureblood Oath of Ancients Paladin seems like a pretty strong contender. I might go as far as saying 3 levels in Bard for some extra spell slots for smiting.

Problem is Moon Druids and having to carve out the extra HP from wild shape and general lack of utility if the contender steps out of the battle field or good battlefield control. (I don't care how hard you hit if you are trapped in a wall of force bubble.)

Fortunately, most, if not all, spells are mostly wasted on the obscene magic resistance.

...

Then it's just a matter of surviving toe to toe combat...

Kane0
2019-03-02, 07:15 PM
I dunno, ill probably roll up an AT just to see how long he survives

p_johnston
2019-03-02, 07:17 PM
variant Human divination wizard with lucky feat.
str 8
dex 14
con 14
int 20
wis 10
cha 8

depending on how your portents end up you might just instantly win. If you have at least one bad roll then first turn (which you have a decent chance of going first due to lucky) you cast dominate person and order them to run away. You win.

If that doesn't count you cast hypnotic pattern, use portent in order to make them fail. Then use creation to encase them in 5x5 block of airtight stone/diamond, they suffocate before they can get out likely. Or if the dm is lenient on what constitutes "shaking them awake" buy a large iron chest, stuff them in it, and cast arcane lock. Stone shape it into the wall just to be safe.
edit: creation has the same duration as hypnotic pattern so you likely couldn't do that as they have one round to get free. could probably still stone shape them into the wall though.

Assuming you have good portent rolls congratulations you probably go first. Wall of force them in (no save if you are encased inside only if it bisects your space). Summon three faithful hounds also inside and wait. If facing a warlock with misty step counter spell any attempts to get out. if against any other spellcaster use rope trick to hide until they are dead.

If facing a suspected wizard/sorcerer forgo the above plan and instead just start casting hypnotic pattern until they fail a save and go back to the suffocation plan. You have good portents and lucky so if it comes to a contest of slinging spells you'll make your saves a lot longer then they will.

Note that these are just off the top of my head with a quick look at the spell list. Wizards have enough save or be screwed spells that even if the above strategies don't pan out a divination wizard is still a very strong contender.

Naanomi
2019-03-02, 07:40 PM
With unlimited funds, is there a limit on things like mules that I can herd into the arena?

Son of A Lich!
2019-03-02, 07:47 PM
If I put Algernon in the ring, I'd want anti-magic field. barring that (AFB, but pretty sure it's too high level to be cast at 10...), Fog Cloud is a pretty heavy counter to most magical spell casting due to the "Target you can see" clause. I would meta that Gust of Wind is not a particularly high priority for cantrips in the ring, and aside from that, you'd have to dispel magic/counter spell it for magic users to effectively target you.

Then it's just a matter of tracking them down and grappling them to death.

If they are not a magic user... eh... All sorts of shenanigans that are pretty case by case dependent. I'm pretty sure I would need Bigby's help though. Wall of Force would be pretty helpful too.

LudicSavant
2019-03-02, 07:52 PM
Would it be a fairer challenge if burrowing is not allowed? Or maybe allowed with some limitations?

There are ways to deal with burrowing/tremorsense. A dirt floor arena doesn't seem any more or less "white roomy" than any other choice of flooring.

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 07:55 PM
With unlimited funds, is there a limit on things like mules that I can herd into the arena?

Just the one you're riding.

Naanomi
2019-03-02, 08:08 PM
Just the one you're riding.
So with no vehicles... can I have more equipment than I/my mount can carry?

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 08:11 PM
So with no vehicles... can I have more equipment than I/my mount can carry?

The intent is that you can only bring in what you can carry.

p_johnston
2019-03-02, 08:11 PM
3) All builds must be AL legal, with no abilities or gear that require the character to have played through any specific adventure or set of adventures, or that require special DM permission to obtain. You have unlimited funds to buy equipment, but no magic items may be purchased and you can only take in what you can carry. Non-magical mounts listed on page 157 of the PHB are allowed, but only as mounts, not pack animals. Vehicles and hired mercenaries are not allowed.



only what you can carry. So presumably strengthx15 pounds of stuff.

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 08:15 PM
This is interesting. I did not expect that the toughest part of a white room challenge would be designing the white room.

Naanomi
2019-03-02, 08:51 PM
only what you can carry. So presumably strengthx15 pounds of stuff.
Ok... can we have reasonable ‘stuff’ that isn’t in the PHB for purchase?

In an almost unrelated question, how much does the lightest possible small size skeleton weigh?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 08:55 PM
I can think of a few that are that battle changing, not the least of which being the use of Animate Dead for Necromancer Wizards.

Animate Dead is a good example. I'd say that since its an arena the strat should be replicable daily for it to be valid. Thus the slots spent in reasserting the undead control should be locked, since caster will have to reassert it before next fight.

I'd say either that or simpler "Only your character enters the battlefield".

This made me think, what about beastmaster? Can he have his pet in there?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 09:05 PM
Ok... can we have reasonable ‘stuff’ that isn’t in the PHB for purchase?

In an almost unrelated question, how much does the lightest possible small size skeleton weigh?

I found human skeleton is about 15% of an average persons weight. Assuming halflings have a similar ratio, their skeleton should weigh only 6 pounds.

LudicSavant
2019-03-02, 09:22 PM
Animate Dead is a good example. I'd say that since its an arena the strat should be replicable daily for it to be valid.

Sure. As long as the razor by which we're eliminating things isn't something as arbitrary as "is or is not a spell."

Ganymede
2019-03-02, 09:45 PM
I don't get it. Why are two PCs fighting each other?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 10:06 PM
I don't get it. Why are two PCs fighting each other?

Prize money

Anderlith
2019-03-02, 10:07 PM
The only class I can see winning is a Warlock with repelling blast & a few other spells to deal with casters.

All they’d need do is spam EB with Repelling blast to deal with most any melee build which leaves ranged & magic builds...

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 10:28 PM
Animate Dead is a good example. I'd say that since its an arena the strat should be replicable daily for it to be valid. Thus the slots spent in reasserting the undead control should be locked, since caster will have to reassert it before next fight.

I'd say either that or simpler "Only your character enters the battlefield".

This made me think, what about beastmaster? Can he have his pet in there?

Pets are fine. Animate Dead has to be cast after the fight has started.

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 10:48 PM
Would my siege tower be ok?

As long as you can carry it through the door. (So probably not.)

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 10:57 PM
What size is the door?

The door is not the problem. How are you carrying a siege tower?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 11:02 PM
All or Nothing:

Vhuman Battle Master 6/Gloom Stalker 4

10
20(15+1+2+2)
14
8
16(15+1)
8

Alert, Sharpshooter, +2 Dex, +2 Dex
Archery style
Disarming Attack, Precision Attack, Pushing Attack

Initiative +13
Attack +11(+6)
BAction: Hunter's Mark
Action: 2*1d8+1d6+15(2*23), 1*2d8+1d6+15(27.5), total 73.5
Surge: 2*1d8+1d6+15(2*23), 1*2d8+1d6+15(27.5), total 73.5

Basically if you win initiative, you've got a good chance of dealing more than 100 hp damage. If you lose initiative, well, lets just hope your opponent doesn't have an I win button (which he likely has)

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 11:04 PM
20 Strength, and, you know what, he's not going to be a dwarf anymore. Instead he'll be a goliath with at least 3 levels in cleric for protection from poison. So, between the 20 Str and powerful build, that should be a carrying capacity of 600 pounds.

Well, that should be enough to carry a siege tower I guess.

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 11:08 PM
So, how big is the door?

5 ft x 10 ft I imagine?

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 11:18 PM
Well, that should be enough to carry a siege tower I guess.

According to this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helepolis), a very large Greek siege tower was 130 feet high and weighed 160 tons. The seige tower in the DMG is only 40 feet high, so assuming all it's dimensions shrunk in proportion and it was constructed similarly, it should weigh about 9,300 pounds.

Rukelnikov
2019-03-02, 11:27 PM
According to this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helepolis), a very large Greek siege tower was 130 feet high and weighed 160 tons. The seige tower in the DMG is only 40 feet high, so assuming all it's dimensions shrunk in proportion and it was constructed similarly, it should weigh about 9,300 pounds.

Damn, who would have thought a siege tower was that heavy?!

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 11:35 PM
Ok, fair enough. Can I just use a box, then?

You mean a box just big enough for one person to fit in? I can't see any reason why not.

JoeJ
2019-03-02, 11:55 PM
Could I also bring enough Essence of Ether that it would eventually spread to fill the whole room?

I'm not familiar with essence of ether, but if it isn't magical and you could bring it into an AL game without special DM permission, it's fine.

Naanomi
2019-03-03, 01:41 AM
Any restrictions on expensive non-magic stuff? Or should I assume every physical attack is dripping in purple-Wurm venom?

And can a Goliath bear-totem Barbarian with 20 STR just carry in his 1.2k lbs in wardogs or trained attack snakes or the like?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-03, 01:49 AM
Any restrictions on expensive non-magic stuff? Or should I assume every physical attack is dripping in purple-Wurm venom?

Make those purple wurm dripping cannonballs

JoeJ
2019-03-03, 01:54 AM
Any restrictions on expensive non-magic stuff? Or should I assume every physical attack is dripping in purple-Wurm venom?

I want to say yes, but I don't see any rules comparable to the ones for basic poison about applying purple worm poison, or how long it lasts.


And can a Goliath bear-totem Barbarian with 20 STR just carry in his 1.2k lbs in wardogs or trained attack snakes or the like?

How many dogs and snakes does it seem reasonable to you that one person could carry? (Are trained attack snakes even a thing?)

MaxWilson
2019-03-03, 10:55 AM
This is interesting. I did not expect that the toughest part of a white room challenge would be designing the white room.

Just change the arena rules instead: burrowing counts as fleeing.

An interesting variation would be to make this a one-day tournament, with short ten-minute breaks between fights so you can squeeze in a short rest sometimes while other guys are fighting.

Naanomi
2019-03-03, 12:20 PM
I don’t think it will win per-se; but a Tabaxi Arcane Trickster with purple wurm poison and booming blade charging the field for a round 1 alpha strike should at least be a competitor...

1d8+5d6+1d8+12d6+5... that downs most casters without special defenses in one hit

OverLordOcelot
2019-03-03, 02:10 PM
This is interesting. I did not expect that the toughest part of a white room challenge would be designing the white room.

D&D is not an MMO where spells have limited effects and walls are impassible barriers, once the players break out of T1 they have a lot of long-term and environment altering options available. Setting the parameters of the fight is going to have a huge effect on what classes can win, especially things like 'can I come in with a 1 minute cast, 1 hour lasting summon,' 'can I kite,' 'can I move into the floor', 'can I bring large equipment'.

MaxWilson
2019-03-03, 02:32 PM
I don’t think it will win per-se; but a Tabaxi Arcane Trickster with purple wurm poison and booming blade charging the field for a round 1 alpha strike should at least be a competitor...

1d8+5d6+1d8+12d6+5... that downs most casters without special defenses in one hit

Make it an action surging Samurai Alert Archer so you get for poisoned arrows at advantage instead of one. Besides, Purple Worm venom is cheaper on arrows since you get three shots from each dose.

Unk
2019-03-03, 02:38 PM
I will start raging and cast fire bolt to blow up all the kegs.

But you cannot cast spells while you're raging..

Naanomi
2019-03-03, 02:43 PM
Make it an action surging Samurai Alert Archer so you get for poisoned arrows at advantage instead of one. Besides, Purple Worm venom is cheaper on arrows since you get three shots from each dose.
The cost is irrelevant since we have infinite money

and I’m going for one-Hit kills; so the backstab damage matters

Ganymede
2019-03-03, 03:26 PM
The cost is irrelevant since we have infinite money

Buy the OP said the whole reason that two PCs are murdering one another is for prize money.

If they have infinite money to prepare, even the flimsy pretext of prize money is gone.

Rukelnikov
2019-03-03, 03:31 PM
Buy the OP said the whole reason that two PCs are murdering one another is for prize money.

If they have infinite money to prepare, even the flimsy pretext of prize money is gone.

It wasn't the OP, I said it because it was irrelevant, so I made up the first thing I thought.

Ganymede
2019-03-03, 03:34 PM
It wasn't the OP, I said it because it was irrelevant, so I made up the first thing I thought.

It is VERY relevant. Why aren't the PCs working together to extricate themselves from this contrived death trap?

Rukelnikov
2019-03-03, 03:34 PM
It is VERY relevant. Why aren't the PCs working together to extricate themselves from this contrived death trap?

Because they are geased, dominated, suggested and wished to fight to the death

JoeJ
2019-03-03, 04:32 PM
It is VERY relevant. Why aren't the PCs working together to extricate themselves from this contrived death trap?

Because if they did, neither of them could brag here on GitP about having the superior build.

MaxWilson
2019-03-03, 04:37 PM
It is VERY relevant. Why aren't the PCs working together to extricate themselves from this contrived death trap?

Because only one of them gets a kiss from Sethra Lavode for winning.

LudicSavant
2019-03-03, 04:39 PM
Buy the OP said the whole reason that two PCs are murdering one another is for prize money.

The OP didn't say that. Rukelnikov said that.

Ganymede
2019-03-03, 08:19 PM
Because if they did, neither of them could brag here on GitP about having the superior build.

That's some real talk right there.

I mean, it isn't a particularly epic exercise, and D&D is way too swingy and loose to be used as a competitive game. If anything, this looks like a way to trick people into engaging in some third party stress testing of 5e.

Son of A Lich!
2019-03-05, 02:43 AM
I think if I were to compete, I'd build a Pureblood Barb 3/ Paladin 7 great weapon master.

I haven't settled on Attributes yet.

I'd start with an 18 in Chr and at least a 13 in Strength.

For Barbarian, I would go Path of the Totem and select Eagle - I already have Resistance to mundane damage and Paladin covers resistance to the magical sources. As a Yuan-ti, I'm immune to poison. The Eagle allows me to bonus action dash and try to keep in range of my opponent in the event they are trying to stay out of melee with me.

For Paladin, Oath of the Ancients. With the aura adding my charisma to all of my saves, and my ASI to make Charisma to 20, and having advantage on all saving throws, I'm functionally immune to all spells that allow saves. Turning Fey is pretty important when I have to worry about summon woodland creatures and Familiars. Reckless attacks means I can focus on Crit Fishing and Smiting like a boss.

I might just go Long Bow and focus on making attacks every round, but at the end of the day, I'm more concerned about withstanding the combat blow for blow regardless of what comes at me and finishing the fight on my terms with Smite damage.

I think Nova-ing is a pretty valid tactic here, but aside from Shenanigans from Assassins and the ilk, I don't think you can reliably do enough damage in a round to finish a character outright. I don't think the Damage scales fast enough for the extra hit dice, but we will see.

Oh, and naturally, I'd coat my weapons in Purple Wurm venom as well.

I'm going to name this build Skult, the Screaming Brand. For now, I think his Con is going to be 14. I'll sit down and get a full sheet here in a couple of days.

JohanOfKitten
2019-03-05, 05:41 AM
The only class I can see winning is a Warlock with repelling blast & a few other spells to deal with casters.

All they’d need do is spam EB with Repelling blast to deal with most any melee build which leaves ranged & magic builds...

Having done a white room (but with more than two PCs) with this particular build at lvl7, I confirm it work wonderfully.
I've destroyed a moon druid with his two animal forms before he could get to contact.

With that, the warlock need blink in their spell list. No concentration, with half the time close to no possibilities for your ennemy to do something to you.

Blink is a must have, totally unbalanced for PvP, while fine for classic dungeon crawl.